News topic du jour:
1. Sugar & Fruit [11:17]
Hello Rob and Nicki,
I read Wired to Eat and Sacred Cow and listen to your podcast every week. Your books and podcast have been such a blessing to my health journey. Thank you.
I have a question regarding fruit and sugar. I eat clean (no processed carbs / sugar / avoid seed oils) and mainly follow the Paleo path with the exception of pastured butter / cheese. I also practice daily intermittent fasting with a six hour eating window. I have cut out all added sugar (sweets, soda, etc) but typically have a bowl of organic blueberries, mixed fruit (pineapple, strawberries, etc) with chia seed pudding made with coconut milk after my lunch and dinner. Does the natural sugar in these fruits have a negative effect with regards to inflation and heart disease?
Thanks so much for all you do.
2. Jiu Jitsu and Nutrition [19:16]
Strawberry (Yes my name is Strawberry) says:
Overly exhausted the day after Jiu Jitsu grappling. I know you are a purple belt (which kudos!!) so I’m sure you have some real experience and great suggestions.
I believe being this tired, I am not doing something right.
In a nut shell
I avoid bread and flour (unless my daughter makes cookies)
I have a spoon of honey with my matcha or smoothie
I avoid big meals first thing in the morning, I break my fast about 10-1030am, I’ll have a handful of nuts, a smoothie with collagen (add fruit seldom).
I have 2 cups of coffee a day
My meals consist of veggies, proteins, and fat. If there is a carb, its more at dinner time.
I get out side as much as possible (an hour or more a day)
(With diet, I’m no saint, so I know it’s not perfect like above, but that is about 80% of the time)
I read before bed (books not screens!)
The days I know I’m going to go train, I do eat breakfast and try to fit in some extra food.
Training is at night, we’re done rolling by 8pm.
I’M FREAKING TIRED! My goal is to be energized and go to class 3 times a week.
When I’m tired, I am grumpy, and my husband or kids don’t deserve that !! They like an energized happy mama ^_^
(-Follow up email after asking her some basic questions-)
Welp… I don’t count calories or carbs. (Maybe that’s my problem)
I’ll have complex carbs at night and especially after training (potato’s, pasta, homemade bread). I’ll add 1/2 banana or a handful of frozen strawberries to a smoothie during the day. I’ll sneak in extra carbs sometimes but not often. Lunch, will typically be salad/veggie with protein and high fat. (Nuts, with olive oil on salad, etc)
I got a free sample of LMNT from Roll Model camp and I’m going to purchase more cause it does help. Last night I had a pack right after class and I feel good today!
I worship my sleep. My family picks on me because I think 930pm is late. But on nights I’m training I may not get to sleep til midnight from cooling off!
Sadly my gym doesn’t have morning classes. The high intensity seems like my body needs to chill out for quite sometime.
We got our sauna running (last 2 weeks) and after training I go in there and it helps but not always.
I avoid screens cause it does fuck up my sleep but my husband,( his love language is watching shows together) so I’ll watch a show with him from time to time after class or weekends.
With the summer, the kids home and husband, I’m trying to not always be a “stick in a mud” if you know what I mean?
Sorry this was long winded! But it’s actually helping me realize a few things….
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Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help 1 million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.
Robb: Welcome back.
Nicki: Hello. Hello. This is episode 119 of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Thank you for listening. Good morning hubs.
Robb: Good morning. What’s new.
Nicki: Not too much. We had an interesting occurrence yesterday morning. I woke up to go hiking. Did this sunrise hike with some of the other moms at SBG Big Fork where Sagan is training and they wanted to do this sunrise hike. So had to get up really early for me, 4:30. And when I got up, Dutch wanted outside, so I let him out. But as soon as I opened the door, he took… He just started tearing down the hill towards, we have this little, kettle lake in our backyard, and I hear water, like he’s in the water. I hear splashing. And he doesn’t swim. He doesn’t like to get wet. And then I hear this growling sound, like unlike anything I’ve ever heard. And it wasn’t from Dutch. It was some other creature. And it growled like twice, and I’m, there’s water. And I didn’t want to wake up Robb, but I did.
Robb: But she did anyway.
Nicki: I’m like, “Dutch ran down there and he’s got something in the water and it’s growling and I don’t know what it is.” So he gets up and we couldn’t see anything. Obviously it was pitch black. Called Dutch in. Not a scratch on him. Whatever it was escaped via the water. Because Dutch didn’t pursue it in the water. He was like up to his belly in water, but he didn’t swim after it. So then we were thinking it either had to be a bear or a mountain lion.
Nicki: And so we played all these sounds of like, do mountain lions growl? What does mountain lion growling sound like? Or bear growling? And I think it might have been a mountain lion. It didn’t have the hissing. It didn’t have the… Some of this. When you listen to the audio on a mountain lion growling, there’s some kind of a hiss at the end, and there wasn’t any of that. But it definitely wasn’t as deep as what the bear growling sounds sound like. So I guess it must have been a mountain lion.
Robb: One of the folks who lived here previously had posted on like Next Door or something like that, a video of a good size cat walking around the house. And when we first moved here, there were two deer remains. Two deer kills down by the lake side. So.
Nicki: And people in the neighborhood who have… We don’t have any game cameras up here, but people that do will often post pictures of cats and bears that they see on their property. So they’re definitely around. So anyway, that was our exciting night. And then our domestic cat has been deciding to wake us up.
Robb: He’s been a wild beast too, waking us up at 4:30 or 5:00.
Nicki: He has been sleeping in inside. But then, and I don’t know what happened to him. He used to be, we called him the quietest cat on the planet because his meows were like… He just had these, this really strange.
Robb: I would ask you to repeat that, but don’t do it.
Nicki: And now he’s like a-
Robb: He sounds like a Siamese cat.
Nicki: Whining. Anyway, serious derail on our intro here, but just thought I’d give you guys-
Robb: Some color commentary.
Nicki: Some color commentary. Let’s see here. Actually, kick this show off. Upcoming events in the Healthy Rebellion community. We have our expert mushroom interview, our fungi expert coming on inside The Healthy Rebellion Monday, August 8th. So tune in for that if you’re a member. It’ll be recorded and will live in the vault too, for folks that can’t make it on that day and want to check it out at a later date. We also have Coach Cinnamon Prime coming back to do a seven day mindset challenge with us. And that starts on August 22nd. Super stoked for that. Lots of great feedback, the last time she did that. She’s just all around awesome, kick ass and just some great, great content.
Robb: Didn’t Just for Today emerge?
Nicki: That came from Cinnamon. Yeah. So any of you, who’ve done a reset with us and know the, Just for Today, that is a gem that came from Cinnamon back before our very first reset. And then speaking of resets, our next Rebel reset, 30 day Rebel reset kicks off on Friday, September 9th. So that will be the kickoff call. And then we do the seven day carb test and then our 30 days of resetting. So that’s coming up as well. So mark your calendars for all of those things.
Nicki: We’ll keep reminding you as we get closer. And let’s see hubs, what do you have for our news topic today?
Robb: So folks, if you’ve been poking around the interwebs, you’ve probably seen that there’s a new study that claims that red meat increases the risk for heart attacks and strokes and cardiovascular disease. And this just seems to be like, I don’t know, every six month kind of thing, one of these studies pops up. And the funny thing is, it will rotate through what the proposed mechanism is. And this one is again revisiting TMAO, which is one of these metabolites. It’s a metabolite of carnitine and… God, I debunked this pretty thoroughly back in my, what was the vegan film? The-
Nicki: What the health-
Robb: When I did my, What the Health, a Wolf’s Eye View, because they mentioned some TMAO in that. And there’s this correlation there, which we love the correlation, causation kind of deal. But the thing about it. So it’s always TMA levels, TMAO levels are always favorably correlated with cardiovascular disease when we talk about meat.
Robb: But the funny thing is that fish, which produces remarkably higher TMAO levels than eating meat does, because it just imparts more TMAO. In part because it has more TMAO in fish than meat. And then also just some of the other constituents in there get metabolized in TMAO. Fish is never implicated in this story, even though it produces much higher levels of TMAO. So it’s this kind of weird outlier data point that just gets ignored because you have to get pretty far out into vegan land for people like John McDougal and some of these other folks to be like, “Oh yeah, fish is bad too. The study saying it’s good are really not good.” And just whatever. But it, this is a link to Georgia Ede’s website, Diagnosis Diet.com. And she does a really fantastic breakdown of what this study claims, how just shockingly poorly designed the study is.
Robb: And some of these kind of fascinating things that like… If the, in theory, again, there should be some sort of linear dose response curve. The higher the TMAO, the worse that these cardiovascular disease endpoints should be. But yet fish consumption is always correlated with improved cardiovascular disease risk. And it produces much higher TMAO. And I don’t know how people start justifying that. I don’t know, maybe omega three fats protect the heart more. It just gets crazy. So anyway, it’s a good read. This thing is bouncing around. I know we have a lot of health coaches and gym owners and stuff like that listen to the podcast. And so your, the folks that y’all are stewarding and taking care of will see this stuff and they will need some sort of a reasonable answer. And this comes from a well known physician who is able to translate this material in a very effective way. So I would recommend giving this to folks when they ask you about it.
Nicki: And we’ll link to it in the show notes on Robb Wolf.com. If you want to grab that link. The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company, Element. And you know those… I debated about saying this, but like-
Robb: I want to fucking kill people who say this, but mainly because of the people who tend to say this.
Nicki: The people, yeah. There’s this phrase rolling around and it goes, “I don’t know who needs to hear this.”
Robb: It’s just this bullshit kind of… Oh. I don’t… Excuse me. Your house is on fire. And I don’t know if you need to hear this, but you should probably do something about it because you have children and animals and all of your life’s possessions in there. It’s this weird-
Nicki: It’s this weird preface to some sort of seemingly wise scree. So I’m going to use it for my ad here. So I don’t know who needs to hear this, but making sure your electrolytes are on point, especially sodium, is key-
Robb: This is our last God damn show. I am done.
Nicki: … Especially in hot environments. If you exerting yourself or if you’re eating keto or generally low carb. So if you’re feeling tired, grab some Element. Feeling hungover, grab some Element. Muscles cramping? Grab some Element.
Robb: Wanting to end your life? Or your wife? Grab some Element and embalm her in it.
Nicki: And you can do that at drink element.com/Robb. That’s drink L-M-N-T.com, slash R-O-B-B.
Robb: Am I threatening my wife now? Because I said I was going to embalm you in in salt?
Nicki: I’m laughing. So it’s not really threatening.
Robb: Well, you just don’t-
Nicki: You never know how people are going to take it.
Robb: I’m going to man-splain to you though, that you don’t understand the full ramifications of the threat that you’re in.
Nicki: I guess. And if people are just reading the transcript, then it might… They might not get the tone of our playful nature of our voice. And they could take this really seriously.
Robb: Could we just do a whole podcast where we just make fun of shit like that?
Nicki: It would be fun.
Robb: And that would be our future podcast. So I’m going to ask you all out there. If we were to make a podcast that still dipped our toe into health, that still tried to look at some of these bigger picture things like global food systems and resiliency and whatnot-
Nicki: That was less serious-
Robb: … A little bit less serious, and maybe poked a lot of fun at stuff like that. Would you all be interested in that? Let us know.
Nicki: Okay. Questions. We’ve got two for you guys today. This first one is from Justin on sugar and fruit. “Hey, Robb and Nicki, I read Wired to Eat and Sacred Cow, and I listen to your podcast every week. Your books and podcast have been such a blessing to my health journey. So thank you. I have a question regarding fruit and sugar. I eat clean, no processed carbs, no sugar. I avoid seed oils and mainly follow the paleo path with the exception of pastured butter and cheese. I also practice daily intermittent fasting with a six hour eating window. I’ve cut out all added sugars, sweets, soda, et cetera, but typically have a bowl of organic blueberries, mixed fruit like pineapple and strawberries, et cetera with chia seed pudding made with coconut milk after my lunch and dinner. Does the natural sugar in these fruits have a negative effect with regards to…” And he says inflation and heart disease, but I’m assuming he means inflammation and heart disease. Inflation is on everybody’s mind.
Robb: No, this is the cause of inflation right here. It’s not any of the COVID lockdowns and-
Nicki: Supply chia.
Robb: It’s actually fruit and sugar.
Robb: See, this could be a portent-ion of what we could have going on in the future. If you guys want us to do this.
Nicki: Okay. Thoughts on Justin’s fruit and chia seed pudding, post prandial.
Robb: Before I get to that, when Nicki and I record these, we stand next to each other. And for some reason she swung her hand backwards and hit me in the groin pretty good. So I’m kind of-
Nicki: Did I?
Robb: You just did.
Nicki: I didn’t really realize that.
Robb: A little bit of testicular impact with that, but-
Nicki: I apologize.
Robb: Justin, unless you are really metabolically compromised… And I’m, I have some challenges with carbs, but I probably depending on the day and especially in the summer, and around points of higher activity and whatnot, I’ll get a hundred, 150 grams of carbs someday from mainly fruit sources. And the funny thing is because I do have celiac, I’m pretty sure I have fructose malabsorption also. So I can bomb out my ability to absorb fructose. And then I get kind of the trots from it. So I am very self-limited on how much fruit I can eat, because I just get fermented and gassy and everything. But I know with the popularity of keto and carnivore, all that stuff. Although now there is the flavor of carnivore that is fruit and honey, which, and meat, which looks shockingly like paleo used to look like, but of course you couldn’t call it paleo because-
Nicki: Paleo has baggage.
Robb: Paleo has baggage. I have some thoughts around paleo and whole 30, too. We’ve had people… Maybe we’ve mentioned this before, where, “Well, what do you do?” “I wrote some books on the paleo diet.” “Oh, I could never do that.”
Robb: “Okay. What do you do?” “I do whole 30.” And it’s like, it was great talking to you. And then you turn around and try to find someone smarter to do. And anyway, so Justin, I guess the big… This is something that someone like Elaine Norton or somebody would be like, “Oh my God, this is… You can’t freak out about sugar.” And there is kind of a reality though, that some people have gut issues.
Robb: Some people have autoimmune issues. It doesn’t work for everybody, but my point would be, how do you look? How do you feel? How do you perform? Maybe do some under the hood tinkering with some blood work. We really recommend precision health reports to get a wonderful picture of your ten year cardiovascular disease risk, and also ten year diabetes risk. And if everything looks good within that, then eat that bowl of fruit. And don’t worry about it.
Robb: Nicki and I have talked about this a lot, just our childhood versus the way our kids are growing up. And our kids get some sugar, they get some junk, but my God, it is a fraction what I had, junk-wise.
Nicki: I mean, I would eat, especially between… In high school, 12, and… I mean, I would have three bowls of cereal in the morning, whatever my lunch was. Which was often, I usually brought my own lunch, but I usually bought a cinnamon role at the cafeteria or the snack area, which was these giant cinnamon rolls, which had to be like at least-
Robb: 200 grams of carbs.
Nicki: 150 grams of carbs. Yeah. And then, a sandwich and a piece of fruit and some cookies or chips for lunch. I drank soda. When we went out to dinner, it was usually to Round Table Pizza. I could eat like a half of a pizza and with some kind of soda. Our holiday gatherings, we always had tons of soda, lots of desserts, like noodles and cheese, pasta salad, potato. There’s just, I had tons of carbs as a kid. So, I feel like our kids are-
Robb: Doing pretty-
Nicki: … The little bit of sugar that they’re getting, it’s literally a fraction of what I had as a kid.
Robb: Yeah. So Justin, and just for folks in general, I think it gets annoying to me that you have some of these evidence based folks that completely dismiss the notion that a bowl of fruit might not work for somebody because for some people it just doesn’t. And usually because of GI or autoimmune issues, occasionally because of blood glucose issues. And we work like the devil, hopefully to get as metabolically flexible and healthy as we can. And my situation varies with that. Sometimes I feel a little more carb tolerant, and sometimes I feel less. And so I think you have to honor that, but then the flip side of this is, yeah, it is sugar in fruit. Yes. Fruit has been shockingly modified from what it was in the paleolithic, but if you’re pretty active, if you’re sleeping well, you’re doing a little intermittent fasting.
Robb: If you’re otherwise insulin sensitive, that’s not the place to worry. It’s great to ask a question. It’s great to just ponder that stuff. And again, this is where we can do some objective things. Like how do you look? How do you feel? How do you perform? Do some precision health reports and see where the numbers play out with that. But then above and beyond that, you’re probably good to go. Now, all that stuff said, I will throw the following out. That there was a study, came out of the UK, and it made the point that kids are being encouraged to eat more fruit and they are eating more fruit and they’re getting more metabolically sick because what’s happening is they’re just adding fruit to an already terrible diet. So they’re not swapping out soda. They’re not swapping out-
Nicki: Chips or other processed snacks for the fruit. They’re having the fruit on top of the chips and other processed foods.
Robb: So excess calories, excess fructose. And it’s kind of funny. The all evil comes from fructose camp says, “It’s the fructose.” The all evil comes from seed oil camp says, “Well, it’s because they’re already eating seed oils.” The thermodynamic calories in, calories out exclusively folks just say that they’re overeating calories, which at the end of the day is probably more to the deal there.
Robb: But even something that is fairly, in theory, good for us like fruit, if consumed in the environment of just overeating food, is going to be problematic, even for kids. So again, the context is really important and people can kind of lose their minds on both sides of the story.
Nicki: Okay. Our second question this week is on jujitsu and nutrition and it’s from Strawberry. And she says, “Yes, my name is Strawberry. Overly exhausted the day after jujitsu and grappling. I know you are a purple belt.” Brown belt, actually. “Kudos. So I’m sure you have some real experience and great suggestions. I believe being this tired, there’s something I’m just not doing right. In a nutshell, I avoid bread and flour unless my daughter makes cookies. I have a spoon of honey with my matcha or smoothie. I avoid big meals first thing in the morning. Usually break my fast at around 10 to 10:30. I’ll have a handful of nuts, a smoothie with collagen. And sometimes I add fruit. I have two cups of coffee a day. My meals consist of veggies, proteins, and fat. If there is a carb, it’s more at dinner time. I get outside as much as possible, an hour or more a day. With diet, I’m no saint.
Nicki: So I know it’s not perfect. Like above. But that is about 80% of the time. I read before bed, books, not screens. The days I know I’m going to train, I do eat breakfast and try to fit in some extra food. Training is at night. We’re done rolling by 8:00 PM, and I’m freaking tired. My goal is to be energized and go to class three times a week. But when I’m tired, I’m grumpy and my husband or kids don’t deserve that. They like an energized and happy mama.” And then it sounds like Squatchee had some back and forth with her and her responses to some of his questions. “While I don’t count calories or carbs, maybe that’s my problem. I’ll have complex carbs at night, especially after training. Potatoes, pasta, homemade bread. I’ll add half a banana or a handful of frozen strawberries to a smoothie during the day. I’ll sneak an extra carb sometimes, but not often. Lunch will typically be salad, veggie with protein and high fat. Nuts with olive oil on the salad, et cetera. I did get a free sample of Element and I’m going to purchase more because it does help. Last night, I had a pack right after class and I feel good today.
Nicki: I worship my sleep. My family picks on me because I think 9:30 PM is late, but on nights I’m training, I may not get to sleep until midnight from cooling off. Sadly, my gym doesn’t have morning classes. The high intensity seems like my body needs to chill out for quite some time. We got our sauna running last two weeks and after training, I go in there, but it helps, but not always.” And I think that is it. So. “Sorry. This is long-winded, but it’s helping me realize a few things, writing it out.” Which makes sense. The thing I’m seeing… And Robb I’ll let you. I’m seeing lots of carbs and then saying protein and high fat, but I’m… And I’m also seeing lots of examples of nuts. I’m seeing examples of carbs and examples of nuts, but I’m not really knowing what the examples of protein are. So I’m guessing this person, Strawberry, I think you are probably, woefully lacking in protein.
Robb: Could be, could be. I was not picking up on that. I was kind of… What she does mention. It is interesting, because she says, “I eat on the low carb side,” but then most of the, like the strawberries and smoothies and all that stuff-
Nicki: Potatoes, pastas and bread. It’s easy to have that add up and be a significant carb load.
Robb: Yeah. So it would be really helpful to run everything through chronometer for like a week and just kind of see where you are as a baseline. You might be super under eating calories and that might be a piece. We have never not seen people under eating protein. It’s like every day, all the time. That’s a biggie. But I got to say that it’s maybe self aggrandizing, but the sodium and electrolyte piece is enormous. I can’t even begin to explain how critical it is. We know we’re part co-owners of a, co-founders of an electrolyte company. Drink pickle juice, do our home brew, drink element.com/home brew, or buy Element. At least get something that is properly fueled in sodium. As Element has grown, it’s been interesting because we had this kind of bias towards, oh, the folks we’re working with really see this improvement in their performance.
Robb: They see an improvement in their sleep and all these different things. They don’t feel as fatigued. Fatigue is one of the big things that people report because our energy levels are so driven and so integrally tied to our sodium, potassium pumps, which is exact right where ATP is generated. These hydrogen ion gradients and sodium potassium gradients are what drives literally the bioenergetics of life. And so if we are deficient in sodium, in particular, all the electrolytes, but sodium in particular, you will feel like shit. And this is a self-governing process because if you’re low in sodium, you are unable to do things because you feel like garbage so that you don’t further exacerbate your low sodium status. So there’s kind of a feedback loop on that. So whether you buy Element, whether you home brew your stuff, whether you save pickle juice and drink it, or you find some other alternative, but for the love of God, make sure you’re getting at least probably five grams of sodium per day.
Nicki: And you can track that in chronometer too.
Robb: You can track that in chronometer too, and should. Absolutely should. I’m not a huge fan of super meticulous food tracking because it can make people neurotic, but just to establish a baseline. It’s really-
Nicki: You just did it for a week just to see on average, how much sodium am I getting per day?
Nicki: And then that could be pretty informative.
Robb: Huge eye opener for me. This is where all this stuff really got cracked open. And I still under fuel with electrolytes many days. And we have pretty easy access to the stuff. So it’s an easy thing to overlook. It’s an easy thing to not give proper weight and credit to. Evening training is rough. This is part of the reason why it’s taken me so long to progress in jujitsu because I first started doing jujitsu in 1993. And granted, I moved and there was no jujitsu for the better part of 20 years, but had other opportunities to train. But they were mainly in the evening. And damn near always, I’ve had an early wake up job work scenario. In that late training session, you get done at nine and you’re just awake till midnight.
Robb: And then it’s really hard to go to bed. I would recommend strongly against doing a sauna after that, because part… One of the things that you have to do to get back into normal sleep is your body temperature needs to drop. And so this seems like a really terrible time to further elevate your body temperature. You might consider a lukewarm bath or shower. You do not want this thing to be cold enough that you get a stress response because this will do exactly the opposite of what you’re shooting for. It should literally be just below the level of feeling warm. It should feel mildly warm, like a bath, for example. And let’s say body temperature is, 98.6, even a bath that’s like 85 degrees or something. It’s going to feel warm, but it is going to cool your body down. One can and will die of hypothermia in a tub of water.
Robb: If you’re submerged up to your neck, if it’s 85 degrees, because it’s going to wick all the heat out of you eventually. And ironically you’ll end up dying from it, but it should be warm enough that you’re not going to produce this adrenalized stress response. And if you want to learn about that a little bit, the Huberman Lab, when he talks about hot and cold therapies, he’s done multiple episodes on this. You can kind of dig into that.
Robb: We’re definitely not looking for the cold shock protein kind of experience in the evening because it’s going to release adrenaline. And it’s just going to further wake you up. Your body temperature may be lower, but then you’re going to be awake because you have adrenal supplied speed going through your system. So blue blockers, super good sleep hygiene, a lukewarm bath to cool you off, but not cool you off too fast, too hard, too aggressively. Really shake the jujitsu coach down for an AM or a noon class. And can you think of anything else? Like those are kind of the-
Nicki: Saving the sauna for the morning.
Robb: Definitely save the sauna for the morning. I would not do that post script, especially trying to go to bed. Some people might be able to sleep well, like sauna and then go to bed. But I, that would be a disaster for me personally. I would have a hell of a time falling asleep after that. So track some food. For sure, track some electrolytes. Make sure you’re at least at five grams of sodium per day. And you might need double that depending on what your situation is. So that’s at least a place to start. Think about again, sleep hygiene. And within that, some way to kind of cool you down in an effective way, but not in a way that leaves you adrenalized and wake you up even more. The end of that bath, you should be cool-
Nicki: But not shivering.
Robb: But not really shivering. And it should not wake you up.
Nicki: Cool. Love to know if any of that helps. If you’re… Report back and let us know how things go.
Robb: But if our advice screws everything up, we definitely don’t want to hear about any of that. I’m kidding.
Nicki: You’re kidding.
Nicki: Any other?
Robb: You know what’s funny? Is in this day and age-
Nicki: You can’t kid.
Robb: Well, there will be, even in our rarefied pool of people that actually still listened to us, there would be somebody that’s like, “Well, that’s a dick thing to say.”
Nicki: Sometimes we’re dicks.
Robb: Yes, we are.
Nicki: All right. I think that’s the end of this week’s show. Thank you all for tuning in again. Be sure to check out our show sponsor, Element at drink, L-M-N-T.com slash, R-O-B-B. And we hope you have a fabulous weekend. We’ll catch you all soon.
Robb: Bye, everybody.
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