Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
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Obesity can lower testosterone in teen boys, but weight-loss surgery may help
Twitter thread on freedom to transact:
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Nicki: Welcome to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is an episode of Salty Talk, a deep dive into popular and relevant health and performance news pieces mixed with the occasional salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity. Healthy Rebellion Radio’s Salty Talk episodes are brought to you by DrinkLMNT, the only electrolyte drink mix that’s salty enough to make a difference in how you look, feel, and perform. We co-founded this company to fill a void in the hydration space. We needed an electrolyte drink that actually met the sodium needs of active people, low carb, keto, and carnivore adherence without any of the sugar, colors, and fillers found in popular commercial products. Health rebels, this is Salty Talk. And now the thing our attorney advises. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. And given that this is Salty Talk, you should expect the occasional expletive.
Robb: Welcome back folks. Welcome to Healthy Radio.
Nicki: Hello, hello? Welcome to another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is another Salty Talk, Salty Talk episode 41. Happy Friday.
Robb: Happy Friday. We’re a little behind the curve.
Nicki: We’re a little behind the curve today. Sorry, this episode’s going to be released a little later than normal, but sometimes weeks go that way.
Robb: Sometimes lives go that way.
Nicki: Sometimes lives go that way, yep. So let’s see, a couple of things upfront. This is the final week of our 30-day rebel reset. This was our biggest one ever, lots of engagement, lots of good stuff happening in there. We’ll share some of those results coming up in the following week. Our next one will begin in April. So if this is something you’re interested in getting in on, keep your eyes and ears out for that one. We’ll be announcing dates and all that as it gets a little closer. But next up in the Healthy Rebellion is something that Robb and I are super, super excited about. I know you’ve heard us talk about Sarah and Grayson Strange from Basis Health and Performance in New York. They’ve done a handful of strength and mobility programs for us in the Healthy Rebellion for the last couple of years.
Nicki: CARs and mobility reset. We’ve done two different strength programs with them and they are coming back and doing another one here that begins on March 7th. And this one is a little bit different. It’s their internal strength method. They’ve gone and learned a bunch of stuff that has revolutionized the way they approach training. And Robb and I are actually doing some private work with them because we have consistently bad backs and hips that seem to resolve for a little while. And then inevitably, something happens in jujitsu and we bridge the wrong way and then our back is bad. So we’re sick and tired of that. And so really excited for what they’re doing.
Nicki: And the main difference is… and Sarah and Grayson did a great explainer video inside the Healthy Rebellion for what is coming with this. But the main difference is instead of just working lifts, granted, you will work lifts, but there’s a huge focus on working the capsule of the given joint. Then the rotational tissues around that capsule. And then the linear tissues. So if you don’t have room in your capsule, then your progress on any given lift is going to be thwarted or you won’t be able to realize as much gains there as you would otherwise. And I definitely have very little capsule space in my hips, especially when it comes to internal rotation. So very excited to make some progress there. And honestly, just in the little bit of stuff that I’ve done in the last couple of days, I actually notice a difference.
Robb: Yeah, me too.
Nicki: Yeah, super stoked. So anyway, that begins inside the Healthy Rebellion community on March 7th, and it’s free to all members of the Healthy Rebellion. So if you are in need of a strength training program, you want to work on your joints and your tissues, this is a great opportunity for you to get in and jump in on that.
Robb: And just as an aside, you can get lean, get strong, get jacked, look good naked, and also address foundational… I think that there’s going to be a tendency for people to dismiss or undersell the more accepted outcomes of strength and conditioning in a smart program and all that stuff.
Nicki: Because sometimes people are like, “Well, what about my gains? I don’t want to…”
Robb: That’s all in there.
Nicki: It’s all in there, and I’ll just share that one of our friends sent them a client. Well, Greg Everett, he’s an Olympic, he’s one of our friends, former co-host of this podcast to the Paleo Solution Seminar, he had an athlete that was plateauing and sent them to Grayson, sent him to Grayson, and just by doing some of this dedicated capsule tissue work was able to add… was it like 15 kilos to?
Robb: His clean.
Nicki: His clean. So it works. Anyway, lots more coming with that and just wanted to put that out there. Gosh, that’s only a couple weeks away. So if you’re interested in that, join the Healthy Rebellion, and we’re going to have a good time with that. And then we’ve talked a lot about how… And clearly, we’re biased, but how amazing the people inside of the Healthy Rebellion are. And I just saw this exchange this past week that I wanted to share, and it’s kind of lengthy, so I’ll be reading for a bit. But I feel like what was shared, both the question and then one of the responses, and there were lots of women that joined in on this, this was posted in a group that we call The Rebellious Women. So kind of more female oriented questions although this particular one applies to men too.
Nicki: I just love the caliber of conversation that happens. People are not afraid to ask questions that might otherwise be sensitive. And then the responses are just amazing. In this particular question and the response, I just feel like so many of us can… it just benefits all of us to read it and let it sink in and rattle around because I know this is something that a lot of people struggle with. So Jenna had asked a question, she said, “I saw something the other day that said, ‘The healthiest version of your body may not be the skinniest version of your body.’ It has really stuck with me. I’m at a healthy weight and I’m stronger at 40 than I’ve ever been in my life, but I struggle every day with accepting my larger thighs and arms and broader back. I still look at pictures of my scrawny and weak 20-year-old self and wish I could be that thin again. How do you get past this mindset?” And I know this is… Well, guys, probably it’s not so much because the bulk is what-
Robb: Tends to go the other way. Yeah. Could go the opposite of this in an unhealthy way, but not universally. Yeah.
Nicki: Right. So anyway, Carrie wrote this response that I just feel like is just so powerful. And she says, “Having been everything from a size two to almost size 30 and being at a more healthy size these days, I think for me, it’s about staying healthy and accepting where my body wants to settle if I’m doing all the right things. I’ve been so far down the rabbit hole of poor health that just feeling strong and healthy is a win. I’m definitely in a spot where I could lose a few more pounds or inches to be more metabolically healthy and I’m working on that, but I’m no longer attached to a size or a number on the scale. Having been too thin, I’m in the camp that it doesn’t hurt to have five extra pounds over your ideal size or weight in case you get a serious illness and you’re in a place where you’ve got something to lose without becoming too frail.”
Nicki: “For me, the best version of my body is the one where I can easily bounce back from illness, have the strength and energy and the ability to do the sports, hobbies, and activities I want to do without worrying about my body not coping, but at the same time, respecting my limits. Pushing my comfort zone without going so far that I break myself. These days, I really want to be strong more than I want to be thin. I think as you get older, you get to a place where you give way less fucks what other people think of your body and you get to a place of gratitude that it has carried you this far. At least that’s how I feel. I’m grateful she’s put up with all the bullshit I’ve put her through, and these days, I treat her with the respect and gratitude she deserves. Doesn’t mean I don’t go through stages where I’m annoyed because I’m back in my tight pants for a bit. But I also know having been too far in that direction that I won’t let that creep out of control.”
Nicki: It struck me as just really, really powerful and I know and also given the rest of the comments on there that it’s a common thing like as women are getting stronger and muscles grow, pants size change maybe just a little bit and you’re not that same skinny college student that you were, it can definitely be a mindfuck. And I think Carrie hits the nail on the head. It’s about being strong and about being able to do the things that you want to do in this life. And yeah.
Robb: Awesome. Awesome. I don’t have anything to add to that.
Nicki: Yeah. But I just want to say don’t we have some amazing people in the Healthy Rebellion? And I know all of you that are members and are listening, you’re probably nodding your heads right now because just the caliber of conversation and just comradery and the ability to lean on people and get help from somebody who has been there, whatever that there is, it’s just really special thing. Okay.
Nicki: Moving on, this Salty Talk episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by LMNT, our salty AF electrolyte company. And we’ve mentioned the LMNT Give A Salt program a ton of times. And I want to share a little bit about one of our Give A Salt nominees, one of our coworkers on the LMNT side of things shared this, and it’s just amazing, gives me chills. So Kevin Austin, he actually has an Instagram handle that he’s starting to populate at kevin.austin.undefeated. He was in a car accident, totaled his car, left him paralyzed from the waist down just days after his 47th birthday. And one of our CrossFit wholesale partner gym owners with LMNT nominated him as a local hero because he trains every day, he has a positive attitude, and he inspires everyone in their community. And his goal is to learn to walk without crutches so that he can walk his daughter down the aisle for her wedding this coming September. He’s obsessed with LMNT as it’s played a huge role in his recovery, training, and head trauma. And I just wanted to highlight just one of these Give A Salt local hero nominees. And so when you’re thinking of who in my world could benefit from this, this is just-
Robb: A perfect example of that.
Nicki: … a perfect example. So you can nominate your local heroes at drinklmnt.com/giveasalt. That’s drinklmnt.com/giveasalt. Okay. We’ve got two topics that we’re going to chat about today. Might end up being a shorter episode. But anyway, the first one is an article, obesity can lower testosterone in teen boys, but weight loss surgery may help. And when Robb and I were talking about this, he had a different take on it than me.
Robb: Why don’t you-?
Nicki: My initial thought was, of course, they’re going straight to bariatric surgery because that’s how our system is broken and clearly, we know that hormones, when we carry a lot of extra weight, especially if we’re in that obesity range, our hormones are not functioning optimally and losing weight can help with that. And so when I read this, I was like, “Of course, we’re going just straight to surgery. Why aren’t we trying any dietary interventions first?” It seemed sort of extreme to me and just typical of our quick fix society, but then you had a completely different take.
Robb: Which I agree in some ways with that, but if we… I haven’t done a super critical analysis of the literature on this, but bariatric surgery works. People lose weight, people get healthier. Now, they don’t tend to keep it forever. They tend to figure out ways of overeating even after they’ve had big chunks of real estate pulled out of their digestive tracks. There are nutrient deficiencies. I don’t know that we have loads of data on like, how do people look 50 years down range? If kids, teen boys are getting this, this is something they’re going to live with for potentially 60, 70, 80 years. We have no idea what the really long-term effects are there. But then the counter side of that is that we know exactly what the long-term effects of obesity are over that time range.
Robb: So it’s almost kind of like, could it possibly be worse? I doubt it. Maybe not. But there’s a sad reality that it is just damnably hard to get folks to change diet and lifestyle practices. It just is. Most people fail. I think at the beginning of Wired to Eat, I had some statistics, something like 120 million Americans a year start a diet and usually start it four on average, four to five times, and most of it doesn’t stick, most of it fails. I think that’s why to the degree that we have success within the resets within the Healthy Rebellion and things like that, I think even Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers, and I remember my mom and grandma used to join this thing TOPS, Taking Off Pounds Sensibly.
Nicki: Was that a national program or just local to your area? I never heard of it.
Robb: It’s a national program, I’m pretty sure. Yeah. There’s a group. There’s some group accountability. There’s a focused goal. You’ve got a plan. You’re not doing it alone. I think that these are definitely the characteristics that go into making it more likely that diet and lifestyle are going to be successful, but it takes time, it takes effort. What if your peer group, your family, you got a young kid, he’s overweight. Why is the young kid overweight? Well, chances are it’s because the family is overweight globally. Parents aren’t eating well. Parents aren’t exercising. And again, for the healthy at any size, I’m not criticizing these folks. We’re just making a statement of fact. It’s kind of like if somebody’s on fire, somebody has gasoline on their person and a spark ignites them, they’re on fire. I’m not saying that they’re a bastard for being on fire. I’m not saying that they’re a lesser human being for being on fire. And similarly with this, you have multi-generational tendencies for folks to develop drug habits and eating habits and spending habits and all kinds of habits.
Nicki: And obesity is just one factor of this too. Underlying that, there’s systemic inflammation and all kinds of other… So this is where, in my view, if we go straight to the bariatric surgery, which yes can result in weight loss, or I guess maybe I don’t know enough about this. I had one client who had bariatric surgery back when we had the CrossFit gym. And she ate smaller portions, but she didn’t significantly change the composition of the foods that she was eating.
Robb: And that’s kind of the irony about the bariatric surgery. Is that one is almost encouraged to eat more refined food because it becomes so difficult to get enough in. And so it’s this very weird thing like eating a high protein, highly satiating diet is going to be painful. I guess you’ll lose the weight, but at the…
Nicki: I’m sure there are plenty of people who have bariatric surgery and then are able to move towards cleaner whole foods and maybe don’t continue eating the things that contributed to the obesity in the first place. I guess my fear is with teenage boys or teenagers in general. If there’s not a foundation of eating protein, fruits, vegetables, an unprocessed diet, that where is that foundation coming from? And if we’re just jumping straight to a surgery and we’re not attempting to put that foundation in place, I don’t know that the end result is going to be… I mean, the weight will probably come off, but then what about the underlying nutrient deficiencies and inflammation and other…?
Robb: If you lose the weight, the inflammation’s going to improve. It just is. There’s no two ways about that. Nutrient deficiencies, not really, and this is one of the ironic-
Nicki: You can be thin and inflamed.
Robb: You absolutely can. But what I’m saying is all other things being equal, if you’re overweight and inflamed and you lose some weight, you can be less inflamed. It’s very difficult to not do that. Just the insulin signaling, tumor necrosis factors, all that stuff is typically going to improve and usually improve pretty significantly. I guess it’s just… it’s another one of these things where you just look at our world and you’re like, “How the fuck did we get here?” And I’m seeing more and more and more of those and it’s… let me finish this. We’re kind of a victim of our own success. We really are.
Robb: For most of human history, most of people didn’t have enough to eat. At least we’ll argue that once agriculture and the foraging life way was largely abandoned and there were just cycles of relative feast and actually quite a bit of famine. And then 20th century hit and we developed Haber-Bosch method and industrialized agriculture, and it’s been wildly successful, successful to the tune that now teenage kids are potentially going to die quite young from the obesity related issues from overeating. And I’m not entirely sure what you do about that because, do you tax things? There was a soda tax in Mexico, and it seemed like people drink less soda. So there might be some… Clearly, some economic incentives are probably reasonable there. Maybe you just don’t subsidize shitty foods straight out of the gate, which probably would be the first thing to do like farm subsidies for the raw materials that go into this shit food is probably a problematic thing.
Robb: The danger, though, and we’ll get into some other dangers here, some other slippery slopes as we progress through the show. One of the things… I forget if it was Finland or where it was, but there was a tax on butter for a period of time, and then they rolled that back. The interesting thing is inevitably… Usually, sugar is kind of a target and at least soft drinks are a target. And I think that other than… and it’s funny, Murphy just ran up a tree. Our cat is going crazy up a tree. Sorry, looking out a window.
Robb: Tara asked you for me to comment on Ray Peat and I’m just going to do a quick commentary now and then we’ll… There’s a group of folks out there that are just of the opinion that sucrose is not a problem, not a nutrient of concern. You should just eat it with pretty much reckless abandon. Reduced carbohydrate diets are insane and dumb. And I don’t think their results are anywhere as good as the results that we produce, but Ray’s been getting after it for a long time. He’s been in the periphery of my world the whole time I’ve been in this stuff. But other than the Raypeatians, generally, folks are of the opinion that high fructose corn syrup, sucrose, not really that good. You will get folks that will say, “Well, if you eat an isocaloric diet and you live in a metabolic ward, then you can eat spoonfuls of sugar and not suffer deleterious effects. It’s like, “Great. Okay. We don’t live in a metabolic ward, so I don’t know what relevance this has at all.”
Robb: But once you get past that, then the things that become suspect that folks want to put taxes on are like meat and butter and things like that that’s typically animal products.
Nicki: Especially now as we’re moving into this-
Robb: Climate change is the next thing.
Nicki: … climate change is the biggest issue and people are believing that livestock and ruminants are the number one culprit. So yeah. And just as an aside because I’m remembering when we were driving home yesterday from the gym, we were listening to the radio. And just in case you all were wondering, Hostess now is injecting their cupcakes with caffeine because not-
Robb: And I guarantee you, they’re not injected with caffeine. They’re just baked with fucking caffeine. This is the idiot news chapter.
Nicki: On the radio station said that, but yeah. So basically-
Robb: Even they contain caffeine.
Nicki: Some people need caffeine and they don’t like drinking coffee. So now you can get your-
Robb: Is that what they said?
Robb: Is that what the person said?
Nicki: Yeah, that’s what he said.
Robb: I didn’t pick up on that, but okay.
Nicki: So if you need eat a caffeine fix but you don’t want to drink anymore coffee, you can now just eat your Hostess cupcake and get a twofer.
Robb: I don’t know.
Nicki: Robb’s shaking his head at me. Okay.
Robb: It’s not at you, it’s at the world. I literally just had a moment where I’m like, “What would I need to do to take Nicki’s truck and back it over my head just to end it all because I’m kind of at that spot?” But yeah.
Nicki: It can’t be there yet, babe. We got time.
Robb: You’re saying it can get worse? Awesome.
Nicki: Okay. Let’s see. So this last piece that we’re going to talk about today is a Twitter thread that a friend shared with us. It’s actually really interesting and well done and it kind of ties into a conversation we were having in the Healthy Rebellion with a couple of folks given all that’s going on in Canada and the Emergency Powers Act that Trudeau has passed or is in the process of being approved. I’m not quite sure. It seems like he’s already enacting things, but we had heard that there were seven days for the House of Commons or something to vote on it. So we’re not really sure if it’s actually happening now yet or-
Robb: Well, people are getting arrested.
Nicki: People are getting arrested. Yep.
Robb: I mean, whether it is legal what he is doing and what the police are doing within the, I guess, Canadian legal or constitutional system is still unclear to me but it’s happening for sure.
Nicki: Right. So this is a Twitter thread with 30 tweets long by a guy, @punk6529. He has like quarter million Twitter followers, no blue check because clearly his real name isn’t punk. But the-
Robb: His parents didn’t like him, but they didn’t like him that much.
Nicki: But it’s an excellent thread. And of course, we’ll link to this in the show notes. I encourage you to read it. He fleshes some things out very, very well, but the very first tweet says, “There are no other constitutional rights in substance without the freedom to transact. I’ve been meaning to write this for six months, but the Canadian response to the trucker protests is illustrating this so vividly that today is the day.” And so he goes on to talk about we have these fundamental rights to speech, assembly, religion, innocent until proven guilty.
Robb: And I want to read one of these things because this is one of these… You know what? I was going to say there’s a large and growing. I don’t know how large it is. I don’t know if it’s growing because it’s the media-
Robb: It’s certainly vocal. There’s a vocal group of folks that think that what passes for what I would call Western liberal democracies are terrible, or at least the United States is terrible and it should be torn down and destroyed because it’s the worst thing that the world has ever seen. And I’m open to a well articulated position around that. But I think that these folks are wrong. I think that as imperfect as Western liberal democracies are, they are moving towards an unachievable but always should be worked upon direction towards greater and greater perfection and greater equality and greater safety and greater opportunities. And I think that when we look at… Unless you want to live in hunter/gatherer size groups like 150 people or like a Mennonite or similar like small group of people that are really legitimately tied together, once you go beyond that, then I think as a governance strategy is about as good as it gets.
Robb: And again, not to say that we can’t continually improve things, but he made the point. I assume we are in agreement that constitutional democracies are a good form of government, or at least a better form of government than the other methods we have found to date. This means that I am taking for granted many of the following assumptions. And I think that this is something that… Part of the reason why we’re having problems now and the type of problems that we have is that there are a lot of people who don’t understand how good we in fact have it. And it doesn’t mean that there aren’t disparities. It doesn’t mean that there’s not work to do.
Robb: And I think that this is done out of naivete about what our situation is. I think that there are people internal and external to Western liberal democracies that would like to see them gone. China would love to see Western liberal democracies gone. And Brett Weinstein has made the point that the authoritarian flavor of Chinese governance in which you have this highly centralized power, autocracy combined with this push-pull capitalism may in fact be the most efficient… it may evolutionarily be the most efficient form of governance. I think that it’s horrific, particularly if you happen to be one of the ethnic Muslims living in the wrong part of China. It’s going to be a very bad day for you and your kin. Anyway, I’m diverting off that track, but jump in, save me. Save me, Tom. Save me.
Nicki: People have rights to speech, assembly, religion, all that stuff. And he’s making the case that if you don’t have the freedom to transact, you have none of those rights because you need-
Robb: It is the most foundational.
Nicki: … To be able to transact, you need to be able to spend money to do, to exercise those rights. So like freedom of speech might require such activities like a website, a pamphlet, an advertisement, paying a graphic designer, traveling to a different location, all of which cost money. Freedom of assembly might require taking a train to Washington, D.C., booking a hotel room, all this stuff. And so if you don’t have the ability to spend, if somebody is controlling your ability to transact, you can’t exercise any of these other rights. And yeah, go ahead.
Robb: And I’ve mentioned this for a long time around just the dietary practices. As an example, within the Ancestral Health Community, there are folks that are very, very geeked out and excited about say autoimmune protocols. That’s great. I came up with that concept. Other people have championed them and run forward with them, but a good number of people in those circles have an interesting worldview that I think is divorced from the reality of where a lot of these woke ideologies could take us. Within say like autoimmune paleo, there’s usually a pretty animal centric focus on the diet. Maybe not pure carnivore, but certainly animal centric, animal inclusive.
Nicki: Animal foods are healing.
Robb: Animal foods are healing, all that type of stuff. It is crystal clear that a next layer to all of this stuff is going to be massive demonization of animal products because of their climate change impact. And Brett Weinstein was interviewing one of the senators from Australia talking about some of the over the top authoritarian activities that have been going on there, particularly in Victoria. And he made the point that, how far off are we from you pull up to a gas station and you put your credit card in to the thing to turn it on and it says, “Sorry, comrade, but today is a climate change emergency and you don’t get any gas or you get a liter?”
Nicki: Maybe you’re on the way to take your wife to the hospital, deliver a baby or something, whatever it is.
Robb: And I’ve been warning about this stuff, and it’s been interesting to listen to Brett and Heather talk about this and this is part of what I really appreciate about those two is that they reveal oftentimes in real time, they’re like, “Wow, I never really understood this,” but they have commented multiple times, “I never really appreciated these more conservative voices, their concern around the slippery slope of this or that.” And this is it. This is the slippery slope. And if just COVID in general and the way that it’s been handled didn’t perk people up now that we have the convoy in Canada and their ability to buy things, their ability to purchase fuel, their ability to keep themselves warm and fed and clothed and housed-
Nicki: Pay their bills, buy medicine.
Robb: … buy medicine is being destroyed. And Nicki made the point that for many of these people, the after effects, if in Canada, the banking system is very conservative in that if you get a negative ding on your record, if you have an account that gets shut down, after…
Nicki: Yeah. The Canadian banking is more cautious is probably the meaning of conservative there, and that if these people who have their accounts frozen because they participated in this freedom convoy, and I was listening to something on a little audio, and I can’t remember the guy’s name, this is what he was sharing. He’s like, “Afterwards, they are not going to want to have you as a customer.” Assuming they do unfreeze your assets after 30 days or whatever, you’re now a bad person. And so we don’t want to do business with bad people. And so maybe you can’t even have a bank account at a bank. Maybe you can’t even get a loan or a mortgage or do any of the things that you need to do to function in society. And he makes a case. I don’t know where exactly it is. Scrolling down.
Nicki: Yeah. Anyway, even if you’re unbanked right now and you’re relying on cash, you’re still basically excluded from the modern economy because you can’t get your paycheck deposited in an account. You can’t pay a vendor. You can’t invest in a 401k. All of these things, paying bills with online bill pay, all of these things that we all take for granted all require access to these online paying systems. And yeah, where did I want to go with this? I wanted to go here. So he makes the point. He’s like, yes, people could say, “Oh, well, this is to prevent money laundering and terrorism and tax evasion,” because that’s what Trudeau was saying and maybe that’s all true. Everybody’s against money laundering, terrorism, and tax evasion. But what happens when that creeps beyond that?
Nicki: And we already have in the U.S. and also in Europe, banks and payment processors won’t do business with you if you are selling guns or at least there are some. You can find some merchant processors for these types of businesses, but it’s very, very hard. It used to be the same thing with CBD type businesses. It was really hard to find a payment processor that would work with you if you are one of these businesses that frowned upon on high. So like pornography, guns, crypto, all that type of thing. And it’s not a big stretch to think that, “Oh, you are selling grass-fed beef turkey. Sorry, we’re not going to payment-process for anybody who’s selling a meat product or anybody who’s selling electric fencing for livestock. We don’t believe in these types of industries because they are damaging to the climate. And so we’re no longer going to serve you.”
Nicki: And so then what happens? Anyway, this guy’s thread is great and he kind of talks through a lot of different things. The net effect is if you don’t have a bank account and there’s no recourse, no due process, not even an actual law that says you should not have an account because it’s this deep bureaucracy thing, it’s not like these laws are being passed. It’s like the bureaucrats are putting pressure on the banks. The banks do the thing, but there’s not really a law. So there’s not even a law to get repealed or that you can vote somebody out to get it.
Robb: And there’s not ultimately anybody that’s accountable because banks will say, “Well, the regulators said this.” And then the regulators will say, “No, we never really said that, but the banks need to be careful, but they overreacted.” And you as a business or a single individual, you maybe are trying to sue these folks, there’s no recourse. It just disappears. And in the meantime, do you have enough resources to be able to fight this battle that ultimately nobody is going to be accountable to because there’s no paper trail, there’s no email chain? It’s probably a phone call where it’s like, “Hey, you need to lean on these people.” “Okay, we’ll lean on them, and then when things go sideways, we got each other’s back. Okay. Yeah. Pinky swear, boom, go.”
Nicki: And they don’t care who they’re fucking over in the meantime. And what if it’s a medicine like ivermectin or any medicine that maybe is not endorsed by the CDC or whoever?
Robb: A good number of people are using low dose naltrexone to manage a host of different inflammatory conditions, autoimmune conditions and whatnot, and it’s an off-label use. There’s not really any randomized controlled trials on it. There was some discussion that low dose naltrexone could be beneficial for infectious agents because of the way it modifies the immune response and the inflammatory response. I mean, the point that this guy made is that without free exchange, we really have nothing. We literally have nothing. And the first time in history, our money is not decentralized in a way that… or it is centralized in a way that this type of control can be enacted and it can be enacted from anywhere at any time for any reason, and you really don’t have much in the way of recourse. So I’m not sure what our point is to that other than making people more aware of it. I would definitely read this thread. I would save this thread. This is stuff that we are going to have to-
Nicki: Even if you disagree with what’s happening in Canada and in other places in the world, and you think that, “Oh, Trudeau is in the right because this is domestic terrorism or whatever,” it’s not hard to imagine a scenario where a different flavor of leader is trying to clamp down on whatever is important to you. And not having the ability to… And if you’re a person who believes that people should have rights at all, this guy makes a very clear point that you have to have the ability to transact. What if it’s your pet protest that is the most important thing to you and you would stand somewhere in the freezing cold for four weeks because it’s that important to you? And it’s not hard. Once these things become commonplace, once this emergency act thing is in place and they never rescind these types of powers. Maybe they diminish them a little bit, but rarely.
Nicki: And so then it just becomes commonplace that everything’s monitored and controlled. Then you don’t have the ability to assemble and protest whatever it is that might be the thing that’s most important to you in the hill that you would die on. So keeping in mind that it’s not just this one situation in Canada. This has the potential to… I think it’s what they want. I think they want this global control and this global…
Robb: It is a degree of control that has never been seen in the world. We’ve seen hints of it coming out of China with the social credit score and whatnot. And we’re seeing a real expose of it with what’s happening in Ottawa with the convoy and whatnot. It’s a little disheartening and you never know how much to read into this stuff, but there was some Statista saying that two thirds of Canadians don’t support the convoy and they support Trudeau’s everything. And I’m hard-pressed to believe that, but I don’t know. A lot of people are just terrified. They’ve been terrified about COVID and the impacts, and they just want somebody to come and take care of them. And I’m going to sound like a dick, but Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the folks there have generally become much more…
Nicki: They’re too nice and accommodating and go along.
Robb: Internalized. It’s like, “Somebody’s going to come and take care of us.” And it’s because they’ve had great well functioning societies, good medical systems. They have largely homogenized societies also, which lends a whole lot of streamlining to things. But I think it was MESIS said something to the effect of every socialist is a dictator waiting to emerge or something like that. People can hate me or not hate me, but it’s just… I think that there’s a lot of truth to that. This collectivism is great up to a point, but this is whole story of checks and balances.
Nicki: And this whole thing, this whole thread, granted, it’s current events because of what is happening in Canada, but it all ties back to health and bodily autonomy and the ability to feed yourself the way that you need to be fed.
Robb: Or seek out medical treatments.
Nicki: Or seek out medical treatments, take care of your children. It all circles back to health. I mean, there are many of you who listen to us who are members of the Healthy Rebellion who have cured autoimmune conditions, Lyme disease with either a carnivore or a meat-based diet. And if that were regulated away or you weren’t able to transact and make those purchases, it all comes back to health. And I have to hope and have faith and pray that these Trudeau types, these people that are wanting this control over all of us will fail. And maybe that’s being naive, but with every fiber in my being, I’m hoping and praying that they fail because the world that I envision if they don’t fail is a pretty terrifying place.
Robb: I agree. So you got anything else?
Nicki: I don’t think so. Just want to thank you all for listening as always, and be sure to check out our show sponsor, LMNT, drinklmnt.com/giveasalt to find somebody in your life that could use a little salty uplift.
Robb: Do some good while we’re allowed to do it.
Nicki: Right. And yeah, hope you all have a fabulous weekend. Get outside if you can, and we’ll see you next week.
Robb: Bye, everybody.
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