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News topic du jour:
A metabolomics comparison of plant‑based meat and grass‑fed meat indicates large nutritional differences despite comparable Nutrition Facts panels
1. Low Iron Diet [15:15]
Hey Robb and Nicki,
About 18 months ago I found out I have hemochromatosis. I’ve been getting blood letting since and have my iron under 50 now. My question is about diet. Obviously my doctor doesn’t want me eating alot of red meat, organ meat, or high iron seafoods. Am I going to start getting deficient in vitamins and nutrients (B12 etc.) Is there anything I can do diet wise to try and replace the vitamins and nutrients? Can you do a carnivore or Paleo diet without eating alot of red meat? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I’m confused as the best way to optimize my specific dietary needs. Thank you so much for the podcast and everything you two do.
2. Using Milk for Calorie Surplus to Gain Weight [19:01]
Hi Robb and Nicki,
I’m a new Healthy Rebellion member and love it. I’m 42, 5’6″ and weigh 140. Followed Robb since 5+ years of crossfit in my mid-30s. I have maybe 5 pounds of fat I could lose around my waste. Eat low carb and zero sugar…mostly meat/eggs, fruit and nuts. No “comorbidities”. I don’t have a big appetite and my body defaults to 135-140 lbs. My parents are also really small.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the importance of strength/muscle mass and aging. My dad has dropped probably 20 lbs and all of his muscle from early 60s to mid 70s. He’s not physically active. Over the next few years I would like to get my weight up to a lean 155-160 and maintain at that weight as long as possible. If I starting aging at 135 lbs then I’m going to be in trouble.
I’ve begun a Starting Strength style linear progression with the basic barbell lifts. Lift 3x per week and add weight to the bar each time. I have a real hard time eating enough meat to maintain the calorie surplus it’s going to take to gain the weight. I don’t want to do it via carbs (rice/pasta/etc). I digest whole milk fine.
What are your thoughts on drinking 24-32 oz of milk per day to gain weight? Does pasteurized vs raw matter? Thoughts on long-term consumption? I’ll probably have to keep it up to keep the weight on. Any other suggestions to add 300-500 calories to my diet besides “suck it up” and eat more?
3. Will Soy Based Bath Cleaner Affect My Backsquat? [23:17]
Hi Robb and Nicki,
Your podcast is great, it’s changed the way I live my life for the better. Quick question if I may. My wife wants to switch to a soy based bath cleaner because it’s good for the environment. Are the Xenoestrogens and Phytoestrogens leeched into my bathwater from this product going to affect my backsquat progress?
Kie (Tokyo, Japan)
4. Saw Palmetto Supplement – Hoax Or Real Deal? [26:56]
I understand you get a lot of questions thrown your way, and often times most of my questions are answered from listening to the podcast or doing a little digging. But, every once in a while I get a question that causes me to ponder, “I wonder what Robb’s opinion is?” A friend asked me if I know anything about Saw Palmetto, as he noticed it in a supplement called Ageless Male. I didn’t know anything, but did some Googling and noticed that it’s touted for its prostate and hormonal benefits (including testosterone support and improved muscle strength). Seems just as effective as deer antler velvet to me. Anyway, what feedback could you provide as to how beneficial this could be for my aging 50 year old friend? Anything is greatly appreciated.
5. A Kids Audiobook Series, PMR & Keto, and Mouthwash [29:23]
Nikki, you mentioned some audio book series you’re listening to with your girls. What were they again?
Also, is there any information on how keto or carnivore can help PMR?
One last super random question, what do you guys think about mouth wash? Yay or Nay?
Thanks for all of your help.
The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
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Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with a bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to the Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness challenge.
Nicki: Warning: When Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.
Robb: Welcome back, folks. Welcome back, wife. Are you good to drive this thing?
Nicki: Good morning, hubs. Yeah, I’m stealing the mouse so you can move your tea. Move your tea so I can have this, thank you. Hey, everyone. Glad to be back. Sorry we-
Robb: You look huge in this thing.
Nicki: Didn’t have a-
Robb: Sitting a little in front of me.
Nicki: Well, and my chair, I think your chair elevates and lowers. And so your chair seat is lower than mine, and I am longer torsoed than you.
Robb: You are.
Nicki: So most of the time when we’re sitting-
Robb: You look huge!
Nicki: Most of the time when we’re sitting, I’m taller than you. Yeah. So goodness, what’s been going on?
Robb: We have our list of pithy things to talk about here.
Nicki: I don’t have any pithy things to talk about.
Robb: Pithy things, like your dad working.
Nicki: No, I don’t.
Robb: Is that an old one?
Nicki: No, I was going to talk about that during the ad read for LMNT.
Robb: Oh, okay. My bad.
Nicki: So I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Robb: I’m screwing this all up.
Nicki: You are.
Robb: We had a little back tweak.
Nicki: Both of us.
Robb: We got sick. You got quite sick.
Nicki: And then I got some gnarly head cold thing that I thought was maybe the Delta variant, but I did the over-the-counter home nasal test thing, and it was negative. But yeah, that was a two-week worst sinus infection… I don’t even think it was a sinus infection.
Robb: It wasn’t a sinus infection.
Nicki: But just like head cold.
Robb: And I had had something similar to that prior to that, but it didn’t hit me as hard. I have never seen you go down as hard as you did the… One day, you were basically not getting out of bed and then the next day was marginally better.
Nicki: Yep. And then just lingering… I think I still sound like a smoker. Do I sound like a smoker?
Robb: You don’t look like a smoker. Neither do you smell like a smoker.
Nicki: That’s the important part.
Robb: Yeah, yeah. And so you did the test and then it came back negative and there was actually a mild deflated thing, because it was like, “Oh, damn it.” And then I pointed out, prior to COVID, people did get sick and felt like shit from things other than COVID.
Nicki: It’s true.
Robb: So, yeah.
Nicki: It’s true, yeah. But I did miss the Matt Thorton seminar unfortunately, because this all came on the evening before the seminar. And the day that I didn’t get out of bed was day one of that, so I missed the jujitsu seminar that we had been looking forward to. But thankfully, he comes back annually here to the Kalispell area. So we’ll catch him next year.
Nicki: Let’s see, inside the Healthy Rebellion community, we’re on week two of our Rebel Strong 2021 course workshop with Sarah and Grayson Strange, BASIS, New York. And that’s going really well. Some awesome programming in there, tackling joint integrity and preparation for lifts and actually the lifts, and pulling and pressing and squatting and dead lifting, and…
Robb: And I’ll just mention the cool thing about what they’re doing and the fact that it’s stewarded by those folks, is that we have people that are super advanced athletically. And we have people that are raw beginners that have never really done formal strength and conditioning, and both groups are really benefiting enormously. So like there’s this basic template, and then there’s the ability to customize what the stimulus is, and what people are focusing on because they have some very smart coaches running it. So it’s a great program.
Robb: My news topic du jour is, and I forgot to drop it in here, but metabolomics comparison of plant-based meat and grass-fed meat indicates large nutritional differences despite comparable nutrition facts panel. So this is-
Nicki: No way! You don’t say?
Robb: So, it’s interesting. So the researchers looked at a metabolomics level, so even though the label may say a given protein/carbs/fat ratio on this deal, they actually looked at the metabolic consequences of consuming these two items. And it’s a lot to unpack, but they are not remotely the same. And I could wax eloquent about that, but just like the differences in omega-3 fats, omega-6 fat content, differential with micronutrients of which the plant-based meat alternative is effectively devoid of, unless they add a vitamin/mineral mix to it and whatnot. So yeah, it’s interesting.
Nicki: Didn’t the CEO of Impossible Burger recently say something to the effect that he believes in 15 years, there’ll be no need for real meat?
Robb: Of course he did. Yeah, of course he did. Yeah, you are still hacking.
Nicki: I almost coughed there.
Robb: You should have done a Sudafed. Yeah, there’s a little bit of pushback. I forget who the person was. I just get bombarded with information and try to sort through it. But there was a piece that basically said, “Bill Gates, don’t tell Africa how to farm. You may not know what’s best for these folks, and they may not like it anyway,” or something like that. And it was making the case crazily around food sovereignty and all this type of stuff, although I guess, do I head down this? We need to be concise on this thing, but I’ll just throw out there. Right now, folks are almost to the point of setting up gulags if you’re not vaccinated, because that’s the right thing to do.
Robb: And two years ago, I think people would’ve thought that that was absolutely preposterous that could ever happen, or that there is a segregated society now that exists again, due to masked or not masked, vaccinated versus not vaccinated. And people think it’s batshit crazy. Oh, just over the top. But when you see the pieces that are done by the Charles Schwab et al people-
Nicki: Klaus Schwab.
Robb: Klaus Schwab, yeah, Charles Schwab is the investment-
Nicki: Not Charles.
Robb: Sorry, guys. Not you guys. But they transition in one sentence from coronavirus to social justice issues to climate change, and they make this case that they are all 100% linked together. And it is obvious and apparent in any pushback about the way that this stuff is being couched makes you a horrible person and a white supremacist and all this other stuff.
Robb: The whole point of all this that I’m making is that if enough momentum gets going in the direction that animal-based products are evil and racist, and promoting climate change, then you’re going to find it goddamn hard to get this stuff. And it’s going to be socially stigmatized and all the rest of that. And I will say that the main places that I’ve seen some degree of pushback around these narratives are developing countries, interestingly. Because they’re not in a position to-
Nicki: It so feels to me, when you talk about developing countries, it reminds me of reading about Nestle and how when they first put their infant formula on the market, they targeted women in developing countries and made it… Obviously, women are born with the ability to feed their children right out of the gate. There can be issues and trouble with latching and all this stuff.
Nicki: But for the most part, a woman has everything she needs to feed her children. But they were telling women in these hospitals in South America that they needed this formula. It was the better way. And so once they provided that in the hospital and then the women’s milk dried up, they could no longer feed their baby. And they’re reliant on this…
Nicki: … expensive, very costly formula. It’s giving me deja vu. It’s like, okay, the meat that you’re raising on your land in your little province of whatever country you live in is not good. You need to have our soy, pea-based plant protein that’s better for you. And oh, by the way, it’s 10 times as expensive and not as nutritious. But you need to buy this from us.
Nicki: Forever. And then you lose that knowledge in how to raise animals. If this goes on and you lose a generation of knowledge about how to do animal husbandry and how to raise livestock-
Robb: Be reasonably self-sufficient.
Nicki: … and then you’re really screwed.
Robb: Well, dependency seems to be the name of the game in infantilization of the populace, and this isn’t really what this was supposed to be about. And I’m trying to keep my head down, but this is one of these points where folks will push back at different LMNTs of the narratives going on. And for years, close to 10 years, I’ve been making the case that these topics are going to get all woven together and they’re going to get inseparable.
Robb: And animal products will be made to be this classist deal, and now with climate change, the most dangerous LMNT that the planet faces and whatnot, and you don’t have to substantiate any of that with facts. I’m still working my way through Koonin’s book, Unsettled. He’s the physicist, a very decorated physicist, who was the Secretary of Energy under the Obama administration, was tasked with doing a report on climate change. And when he looked at what the science was versus what the narrative that was coming out of the media first, and then governmental agencies second, he’s like, “I don’t know how anybody is making the claims that they’re making.”
Robb: He’s not denying that climate change is a thing, but the magnitude, the intensity, the specific attributes to it, what it means for a global economy, he’s like, “You can’t support what these claims are.” And interestingly, because he has this background of having been under the Obama administration, it would not sit well to do a crucifixion of the guy, and so they very effectively just ignored him thus far. But I’m still working my way through the book.
Robb: I have a good science background, and it’s very thick because it’s a really complex topic and you have to talk about physics and economics and a bunch of shit like that to really make sense of it. Otherwise, you’re dealing with black magic and just witchcraft, basically. It’s just a bunch of opinions. And this wasn’t what the show was supposed to be about, and we’re supposed to get this thing done reasonably quick, so.
Nicki: So we’re going to move onto our t-shirt winner this week goes to SZahratka. She says, “Hey, Robb and Nikki, thank you so much for everything you do. I’ve enjoyed this podcast so much and fully appreciate the honesty and integrity with which you delve into sticky topics. I’m always excited when a new episode of the Healthy Rebellion posts, as it is a great addition to my morning workout routine. I quite enjoy Robb’s occasional expletive. They often take me by surprise and cause me to chuckle, which makes me the only one laughing through an early morning run. I’m sure that I don’t look crazy at all.” Thank you, SZahratka.
Nicki: Send us an email to [email protected] with your t-shirt size and your mailing address, and we will send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt. And the Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company, LMNT.
Nicki: And as many of you have probably already heard the sad news, LMNT is officially sold out of grapefruit salt. There have been lots of emails coming into customer support and messages on social media for folks who want it back. We even had somebody in the Healthy Rebellion post something like, “Is there an official…” What do you call the thing? A petition. He’s like, “Where’s the official petition to bring back grapefruit salt? I’m ready to sign it.” So the flavor was clearly popular and we will bring it back, but probably next summer, next spring/summer.
Robb: Yeah, just logistically, there’s no way for us to just pivot and spin it all back up.
Nicki: Yep. So, be patient. It will come back.
Robb: And there will be another seasonal varietal coming out in not that long.
Nicki: We do have another seasonal flavor coming this fall. Yep. And that will also just be a seasonal option.
Robb: Hence the term seasonal.
Nicki: Hence the term seasonal.
Nicki: Let’s see. I was going to share that my dad has been here for the last three weeks converting part of our garage into a new office space/podcasting space for Robb, and LMNT has been a lifesaver for him. It’s been uncharacteristically warm here in Montana, and then also working in a small space in a non air-conditioned garage has been pretty hot. So he has been enjoying his… Orange is his favorite flavor. We dilute it a little bit more for him. And then he adds a little bit of iced tea, a splash of iced tea, and that’s been saving him.
Robb: I really like that too, iced tea mixed with LMNT. It’s really good.
Nicki: Yeah. That has definitely been saving him on this project. So, grab your LMNT value bundle, folks. It’s hot out there. If you buy three boxes, you get the fourth box free. Go to DrinkLMNT.com/ROBB. That’s DrinkLMNT.com/ROBB, R-O-B-B. And our first question today is from Sean on a low-iron diet. “Hey Robb and Nicki, about 18 months ago, I found out I have hemochromatosis. I’ve been getting blood letting since and have my iron under 50 now. My question is about diet. Obviously, my doctor doesn’t want me eating a lot of red meat, organ meat or high-iron seafoods. Am I going to start getting deficient in vitamins and nutrients like B12? Is there anything I can do diet-wise to try and replace the vitamins and nutrients? Can you do a carnivore/paleo diet without eating a lot of red meat? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I’m confused as the best way to optimize my specific dietary needs. Thank you so much for the podcast and everything you two do.”
Robb: Yeah. I mean, if you look in the hemochromatosis resources, you can find higher protein options that tend to be lower in iron, like liver really isn’t doing you any favors in this situation. As nutritious as liver is, we have this other problem of the hemochromatosis, but even mixed into that story, so doing things like chicken and pork and certain seafoods tend to be very low in iron. As a baseline, you can do things like consuming a very stout tea, eating some dark chocolate.
Robb: Interestingly, things with oxalates in them tend to bind to that heme iron in particular, and do a pretty good job of limiting its absorption. Ironically, doing things like beans or corn tortillas and stuff like that also do a good job of it, but they also block things like zinc and copper. And so it’s broad in the action.
Robb: I love carnivore, it’s really cool. I’ve warmed to it over time. We have a lot of people in the Healthy Rebellion that they’ve done everything else. And they’ve arrived at some sort of carnivore-esque spot, because of a variety of health issues. This isn’t what they wanted to do to be cool. This is what they needed to do to function well. That said, there’s a lot of latitude above and beyond that. Nuts actually would be a pretty good addition, if they are tolerated, because they tend to be a high-oxalate food.
Robb: So if you’re eating just on the lower carb, paleo side of things, and you’re doing a rotation of different nuts, they’re probably going to play a decent role in sequestering at least some of that iron. And again, focusing more on lower iron protein sources, like chicken, pork, different types of shellfish, stuff like that, like white fish and whatnot.
Robb: I don’t have much more than that, but those are some mitigating strategies. Find the foods that are fairly low in iron. Think about a smart application of sequestrants, so that we try to keep that iron from getting absorbed. The challenge with that is that you will absorb or sequester other metals like zinc and copper, which we absolutely do need. And this is just where eating as wide a dietary selection you can… Marty Kendall’s Nutrient Optimizer wouldn’t be a bad option in this case, because you can input everything that you’re eating.
Robb: It will give you a very nice profile, much better than Chronometer. Chronometer gives you some information, but Marty’s Nutrient Optimizer, much, much better and much more detailed. And it will then give you the addition of, “Oh, well, why don’t you add some arugula, or this or that to plug some of the gaps?”
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative), cool. All right. We have a question from Andy on using milk for calorie surplus to gain weight. “Hi, Robb and Nicki. I’m a new Healthy Rebellion member and love it. I’m 42, 5’6”, and weigh 140 pounds. I’ve followed Robb since about five plus years of CrossFit in my mid-30s. I have maybe five pounds of fat I could lose around my waist. I eat low carb and zero sugar, mostly meat and eggs, fruit and nuts. And I have no comorbidities. I don’t have a big appetite and my body defaults to 135 to 140 pounds. My parents are also really small. I’ve been thinking a lot about the importance of strength and muscle mass in aging. My dad has dropped probably 20 pounds and all of his muscle from early 60s to mid-70s. He’s not physically active. Over the next few years, I would like to get my weight up to a lean 155 or 160 and maintain at that weight as long as possible.
Nicki: If I start aging at 135 pounds, then I’m going to be in trouble. I’ve began a starting strength style, linear progression with the basic barbell lifts. I lift three times per week and add weight to the bar each time. I have a real hard time eating enough meat to maintain the calorie surplus it’s going to take to gain the weight. I don’t want to do it via carbs like rice and pasta, but I digest whole milk fine. What are your thoughts on drinking 24 to 32 ounces of milk per day to gain weight? Does pasteurized versus raw matter? And thoughts on long-term consumption? I’ll probably have to keep it up to keep the weight on. Any other suggestions to add 300 to 500 calories to my diet besides suck it up and eat more?”
Robb: I mean, milk is a decent option. I don’t know why, but my head started spinning off in some other directions on this. But we have noticed, and Andy’s not suggesting the gallon of milk a day deal. What we noticed with folks doing that is that they definitely gained some muscle, but they got chubby as hell. And then they jump through all these hoops to try to lean back out. And then at the end of the day, they spent all this money, did all this time, gained all this weight and then they maybe were up net net three pounds of muscle or something like that.
Robb: So I would just be careful with the… On the days when you’re training, that’s when you want to do your calorie surplus, so long as you’re getting enough base-level protein, which it sounds like Andy probably is. Then, just need that extra bit of calories, particularly on the training days. And you just got a sign up for this is the long haul grind. At 42, I might suggest going and getting some basic blood work, looking at androgens, make sure that testosterone and estrogen and sex hormone binding protein and everything looks good. And see if there’s any type of optimization that needs to be done there, because if the hormones aren’t on-point, then it’s peeing in the wind. So that would be the only other thing that I might look at to try to optimize that.
Nicki: And then I know you mentioned Andy that you digest whole milk fine. I would just also pay attention to any other potential inflammatory response that you might get from it. Like for example, if I do a lot of dairy, I get acne. And Robb sometimes will get stiff joints. So just keep your eyes open for any other, other than digestive distress, but any other inflammation that the milk might be contributing to.
Robb: Like it.
Nicki: And then if it wasn’t milk, if somebody didn’t tolerate dairy, he could do coconut milk if he tolerated that.
Robb: Coconut milk, nuts. I mean, just mixing. Adding another 500, 300 to 500 calories is pretty easy.
Nicki: You can do it with a dark chocolate bar, honestly.
Robb: Yeah, you just drop in a little bit at each meal, whether it’s a scoop of coconut oil, cooking your food with a little bit more lard. It doesn’t need to be huge amounts at each meal to bump it up 300, 500 calories. Yep. Yep.
Nicki: Okay. Keep us posted, Andy. Let’s see, our next question is from Kie in Tokyo, Japan. And he wants to know if a soy-based bath cleaner will affect his back squat. “Hi, Robb and Nicki, your podcast is great. It’s changed the way I live my life for the better. Quick question if I may. My wife wants to switch to a soy-based bath cleaner because it’s good for the environment. Are the xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens leached into my bath water from this product going to effect my back squat progress?”
Robb: It’s a really good question, but this one is almost from The Onion. You should be okay on this. Most of these things shouldn’t be such high concentration and so transdermally absorbable-
Robb: … that this is going to be a consideration, but it is probably a funny topic to just bust your wife’s ovaries about on this. But I would not be too concerned.
Nicki: Yeah. But if you do notice your back squat numbers just precipitously declining, then-
Robb: Or some breast tenderness, then we need to shift gears, and I guess use a blood-based bath cleanser at that point and just go exactly the-
Nicki: Blood-based bath cleanser?
Robb: I’m being facetious. Literal Lucy.
Nicki: I am literal.
Robb: You go from soy to the lifeblood of something.
Nicki: Oh, I got you. Okay. I’m getting it now.
Robb: No, you’re probably not, but that’s okay. We’ve got to switch you to filtered.
Nicki: I know, I know. These Marlboros. How do you say that?
Robb: Why don’t you just say Camel?
Nicki: Camel? Okay. It’s time for the Healthy Rebellion Radio Trivia, and our Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsored drink LMNT is giving a box of LMNT Recharge Electrolytes to three lucky winners selected at random who answered the following question correctly. And I didn’t put in a question here, so…
Robb: We’re just going to have an awkward moment and…
Nicki: We will. Well, we were just talking about smoking. And so I was thinking we could do something along the cigarette-smoking line.
Robb: Spin something up. I’m waiting here for you. Everybody’s waiting here for you.
Nicki: Well, your dad in particular was a smoker. What was his brand of choice?
Robb: I believe Pall Mall.
Nicki: Okay. Was it Pell Mell? Pall Mall?
Robb: Pall Mall? Pell Mell is when you go in and just raise hell.
Nicki: Okay. So here we go. This is the most unhealthy Healthy Rebellion Radio Trivia question to date on the show.
Robb: We should really wrap the show up. I don’t know that we’re helping anybody with anything.
Nicki: Well, we’re giving out salt. So this is good. We’re helping people with their electrolyte status.
Robb: Okay, okay, I guess so. Which is funny in and of itself, when you overlay just the general health consensus. It’s possibly the only contribution we’re providing to people’s lives is getting them hooked on salt.
Nicki: No, there’s other contributions.
Robb: Okay. So you say. So you self-interestedly say.
Nicki: No, we get emails. Yeah. So anyway, all right, folks-
Robb: Pall Mall.
Nicki: … that’s the answer to this week’s unhealthy Healthy Rebellion Radio Trivia, and put your answer in at RobbWolf.com/Trivia. And we’ll randomly select three people with the correct answer to when a box of LMNT Electrolytes from Drink LMNT. The cutoff to answer this week’s trivia and be eligible to win is Thursday, July 29th, at midnight.
Nicki: And we’ll notify winners via email, and also announce on Instagram. And this is open to residents of the US only. Okay, our fourth question this week is from Jared on saw palmetto. “Hey Robb, I understand you get a lot of questions thrown your way, and often times, most of my questions are answered from listening to the podcast or doing a little digging. But every once in a while, I get a question that causes me to ponder, “I wonder what Robb’s opinion is.” A friend asked me if I know anything about saw palmetto, as he noticed it in a supplement called Ageless Male.
Nicki: I didn’t know anything, but did some Googling and noticed that it’s touted for its prostate and hormonal benefits, including testosterone support and improved muscle strength. It seems just as effective as deer antler velvet to me. Anyway, what feedback could you provide as to how beneficial this could be for my aging 50-year-old friend? Anything is greatly appreciated.”
Robb: Yeah. And I provided a link there to a PubMed piece that saw palmetto had some mild effects in preventing the conversion of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone, which can be a factor in baldness. It is also a major factor in prostate issues, although DHT is not the only issue. Estrogen can also play a factor, and it seems to be a dueling banjos between at least those two hormones and this is why it’s often times hard for somebody to pin down a treatment protocol if they’re getting some benign prostatic hyperplasia, the growth. Definitely hyperinsulinism is a factor. That doesn’t mean that you don’t eat any carbs, but it definitely means that if you’re insulin-resistant, figuring out some way to not be insulin resistant would be good.
Robb: It definitely tracks with prostate cancer and BHB and everything, but the long and short is saw palmetto definitely has some physiological effects around testosterone metabolism. The interesting thing though is that DHT is arguably more important specifically for strength, like for strength training and whatnot. It’s really important, you don’t want none. You want the right amount. You don’t want too much. Otherwise, you can have baldness and prostate issues and whatnot.
Robb: And so it’s interesting that it would be touted as improving strength when it arguably is going to be decreasing the amount of DHT. But for some people, that’s an appropriate move overall.
Nicki: Okay. Our final question this week is from Tamara. She has a couple of questions and she says, “Hi there. Nicki, you mentioned some audiobook series you’re listening to with your girls. What were they again? Also, is there any information on how keto or carnivore can help PMR? And one super random last question, what do you guys think about mouthwash? Yay or nay? Thanks for all your help, Tammy.”
Nicki: Okay. So the audiobook series that we listened to that I think we mentioned on the show was the Wilderking Trilogy. The first book is the Bark of the Bog Owl, and that is fabulous. It’s a three-book series and we’re also currently in the middle of the Wingfeather Saga, of the first book. And it’s been a little more slow going because we’ve had a lot of company this summer. Normally, we listen in the evening with the girls or on the way to the gym, but because my dad’s been here, the girls haven’t been coming to the gym when we do our class. And our evenings have been occupied with company.
Nicki: So we’re three-quarters of the way through the first book, but it’s fabulous. It’s a little slower out of the gate than the Bark of the Bog Owl, but equally fabulous as far as characters and the narration. Both authors, both the author of the Bark of the Bog Owl and author of the Wingfeather Saga do wonderful voices, and it’s very engaging and very, very fun. And not just for kids. Robb and I both get a lot of enjoyment out of it too.
Robb: The Bark of the Bog Owl definitely comes out of the gate hot. Like it-
Nicki: It grabs you right away. And the other one, there’s a lot of character-
Robb: There’s also a less complex storyline.
Nicki: Right. And then the Wingfeather Saga, there’s a lot of setting the stage with the different characters and-
Robb: But as it starts cycling up, you’re like, “Cool, this looks…”
Nicki: … it’s getting really good. Yeah. Okay. Her next question, Robb, is there any information on how keto or carnivore can help with PMR?
Robb: And I’m assuming that this is the polymyalgia rheumatica, and I didn’t really see anything specifically. There’s clearly no study that’s been done on that. But you see a little bit in forums and just anecdotally that some folks see some alleviation with the PMR symptoms.
Nicki: Is it an autoimmune condition, or?
Robb: It has some autoimmune underpinning to it. I think I’ve mentioned this before, but whenever anybody throws anything at me, it’s basically this condition and hyperinsulinism when do you find this condition, and gluten, what you find. And then finally, this condition, autoimmunity, to just see if there’s autoimmune underpinning to it. And it doesn’t cover everything under the sun, but it covers a whole lot.
Robb: So, yeah. And again, big fan of carnivore, but I don’t know that you need to make that your first whistle stop in dietary change. Keto provides a heck of a lot more just dietary latitude, or you could go carnivore or carnivore-esque and then back out of it. See if you get super good symptom relief, and then start adding. So use it as the ultimate elimination diet and then back out of that. But mechanistically, it makes sense that some sort of dietary change should improve that stuff. Making sure that you’re getting adequate omega-3s, vitamin D’s on-point, adequate sunlight, all those standard things should help.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Mouthwash, yay or nay? I’m going to answer floss.
Robb: Yeah, definitely floss probably above that. I guess it depends a little bit. You could use Listerine, which is understood to be damaging to the mucosal lining of the mouth. It’s pretty gnarly stuff, or there’s this foo-foo mint that’s extracted from fairy dust and whatnot. And so I think it would probably depend a lot on that, but some of the gnarlier mouthwashes available, the really high concentration alcohol or the things like Listerine, they actually damage the mucosal lining in the mouth, which there’s interesting linkage between using those products and actually receding gums because it’s setting up this poor feet-forward mechanism there.
Nicki: Yeah. I haven’t used mouthwash since I was a teenager, but religious with flossing. So I would say the number one thing you can do, like if I was somewhere and I could only choose between brushing or flossing my teeth, I would choose flossing every single time. So if you’re not a flosser-
Robb: I’m not sure I’m quite there. I’m a big fan of flossing, but I…
Nicki: If I don’t have floss, if I forget my floss and I’m somewhere, it makes me… I have a hard time falling asleep. It makes me crazy.
Robb: There you go. Okay.
Nicki: And then I’ll also add that I know I’ve shared before that I had some toenail fungus on my left foot that I ended up getting a prescription medication to treat, and it resolved it. But prior to my decision to go the prescription route, I tried every single home remedy that I found online, ever. And one of them was soaking your feet and your toenails in Listerine.
Nicki: So it didn’t work for that, but made me-
Robb: You weren’t consistent.
Nicki: That made me think of it when you mentioned Listerine.
Robb: Yeah, but you also weren’t consistent with that stuff.
Nicki: Yeah. One of them was also Vick’s VapoRub, lathering that on. But yeah, none of that worked for me. Anyway, Tammy, I hope we answered your questions.
Robb: Answered some questions.
Nicki: Well, answered some questions. Yep. That’s it for this week. I’ve got to dash, because I’m going to take the girls this morning to a… There’s a big horse show event here in Kalispell at this place called Rebecca Farm. They do dressage, cross-country events, and all this. And we have a family friend that lives here and she’s been involved in the dressage and show jumping, cross-country stuff for many, many years.
Nicki: And she offered to take the girls and I to watch and point out all that goes on in these things. So I’m going to meet her this morning, and watch some horse competitions-
Robb: And I’ll be cleaning the garage.
Nicki: … and the girls are stoked. So, that’ll be fun. Anyway, I hope you all have a fabulous weekend. Remember to check out our show sponsor LMNT, at DrinkLMNT.com/Robb. Again, you can grab your LMNT value bundle. You buy three boxes, get the fourth box free. That URL again is DrinkLMNT.com/Robb, DrinkL-M-N-T.com/R-O-B-B. R-O-B-B, Robbie, do you have anything else to say?
Robb: Dude, can you stretch this out anymore? No, I’m good. I just want to wrap this up. I’m dying.
Nicki: Okay, everybody. We’ll see you next week.
Robb: Bye, everybody.
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