Ketosis and Perimenopause; Eating Liver; Protein, Calories, and the Missing Link; Hair Loss and Sleep Issues on Keto; Carnitine and Red Meat Argument with a Doctor
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Show Notes:
News topic du jour:
Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection
1. Ketosis and Perimenopause [21:47]
Tammy says:
I have been practicing a keto diet leaning toward carnivore for 3+ months. I’ve been struggling to stay in ketosis (daily blood testing), and have been unable to identify the reasons for my sometimes dramatic swings in glucose and ketone numbers. I do have “bad food decision” days, but the numbers don’t seem to correlate. I’m middle aged and believe I am perimenopausal. Could the hormone fluctuations be cause my ketosis struggles?
Side note: I’m working with a Naturopath to keep my nutrition focused.
Thank you for your time and information!
Tammy
2. Eating Liver [25:55]
Valérie says:
Hey Robb and Nicki!
First I have to say I am so glad to be part of THR. Thanks for all the work you do & content you provide. Here’s a bit of background info before I ask my questions: I I have been trying to incorporate more organs in my diet because with all the info out there, it seems like the way to go for optimal health. I also cannot tolerate many veggies (I eat mostly beef, fish, eggs, kimchi, beets, carrots, kefir, some sweet potatoes and honey on occasion) so I worry that I am not getting all the nutrients I need with such a limited array of food choices. I have added bone marrow (which I tolerate well) and liver. Liver, however, does not sit well with me: every time I eat it I feel sick afterwards (not necessarily nauseous, but just an overall feeling of being unwell) and it lasts a few hours. First question: what could be causing this? Second: Is liver all the hype it’s been touted out to be? Can I still reach optimal health without incorporating it into my diet.. what do you two suggest? Thanks a million! 🙂
3. Protein, Calories, and the Missing Link [31:23]
Lindsey:
Hi Nicki and Robb! Love the podcast and the resources on the website. Thanks for providing logical and fair information for people to tap into. Also, Robb–I love it when you use the term “noodling” and am trying to bring it into the everyday vocabulary of my college students (they don’t think it’s “cool” enough yet.)
Quick background info–37 year old female, 5’5″, 168lbs, around 34% BF, extremely familiar with Paleo and Keto (even did Paleo-Zone back when it was cool). Strength training 2-3 times a week, HIITs 1-2 times a week, walking every day. Saw Robb speak in Flagstaff, Arizona back in 2008, believe it or not.
About a year ago, I became desperate because I wasn’t losing fat despite my strict adherence to Paleo. I thought maybe a coach could help me figure out “the key” to whatever I was missing. I decided to grab a Layne Norton coach (low fat, high carb, high protein) who kept lowering my calories and upping my cardio, and wouldn’t allow strength training. Even he was surprised at my almost non-existent rate of loss. I ended the program at 1100 calories and about 5lbs lost….which was great, but horribly unsustainable. My body only began losing a tiny bit once I was at or below the 1200 calorie mark. I felt like poop. I’ve since gained that weight back and have been doing the Paleo/keto lifestyle. I feel better and stronger, but I am uncomfortable with the fat accumulation. I feel like I’m back at square one and none the better for it.
My question centers on fat loss and its relationship to protein and overall calories. You’ve both said that oftentimes the key to fat loss is protein intake (1g per pound of body weight). However, If my body only loses at very low calorie 1000-1200 a day, but I need to eat 150g of protein a day, that doesn’t leave much room for anything else. What am I missing here? Why is my body so hell-bent on keeping that body fat? I was told by the former coach that I may just need to suffer at low calorie/high protein until I reach my goals, but I don’t think it should be this difficult or I should have to run my body into the ground to fit into my jeans again. I’m not trying to be a swimsuit competitor, just want to be a bit leaner and stronger while seeing steady fat loss improvements. Don’t even care about the number on the scale.
Quick note–I’ve been out of that LN program for about 9 months. I haven’t been eating like an asshat and have tried several times to lose fat and keep my calories down, but all I seem to do is gain. I’m a wee bit frustrated because the fat used to fall off when I while eating Paleo between 25-35 years old. Thanks for your considerations!
4. Hair Loss and Sleep Issues on Keto [40:03]
Bre says:
Hi Robb and Nicki, I absolutely LOVE your podcast. I credit you both to literally changing my health and the health of my family. I found your podcast when I was in a very desperate health place. Through your advice and books, I have found healing, vitality, and freedom. Thank you so much! I pray you keep doing what you are doing for a very long time.
Some quick context before asking my two questions:
I am a 43 year old female. 5 foot 4, and 150 lbs. I am moderatley active – walk a few miles a day, weightlift a few times a week. But I do work at a desk all day as well.
I had thyroid cancer and a full thyroidectomy 10 years ago. I have taken synthroid and cytomel since. My endocrinologist aims to keep my TSH pretty suppressed to keep risk of returning cancer low, so he has kept me between a .1 – 1.0 for the last ten years.
Before finding the Keto/Carnivore diet a year ago, I felt like I was dying and not a single doctor could help me. Turns out, I was just a hormonal storm with insulin resistance/leptin resistance, etc. For the last year, I have strictly followed a clean Keto diet, mostly consisting of eggs, beef, ground turkey, bone broth, and greek yogurt with the occasional salad or some berries. My macros are consistently: 70 g protein, 50 g fat, 10 g carbs. (after a decade of eating around 1200 calories (non-keto), I have needed to keep my total calories at or around 900-1000 in order to lose. If I go any higher, I just don’t lose.
I am 5lbs away from hitting my 50lb weight loss goal! But most importantly, I feel amazing for the first time since having my thyroid out. My skin is great, my energy is off the charts, I no longer have GI issues, and my moods and cycles have stabilized. Overall, I feel like a million bucks (except for two little issues)
My questions are:
1) – my sleep sucks. I sleep super light, feel like I can never get into a deep sleep, and wake up several times a night, often not being able to fall back asleep. Up until going Keto, I had never suffered with sleep issues. I take NED’s sleep CBD, do blue light blocking glasses at night, no screen time, etc. I have a great bed and make my room pitch black (also use Blueblox’s sleep mask). No matter what I do, I just can’t sleep deep. I am desperate to sleep deep and through the night again, help!
2) – my hair is falling out at concerning speed. Also something I feel has been triggered by my diet. I take Perfect Keto’s Collagen, and I take Biotomizer’s magnesium, zinc, and vitamin b complex. Is there anything else I can add in to the supplement mix to help with this?
I should mention, because sleep and hair loss can be thryoid level issues, I did just get my levels checked. They are right where they have always been for the last few years (except free T3 was a little lower than normal).
Here’s my results from last week:
TSH: .2
Free T4: 1.16
Free T3: 2.75
Fasting Blood Sugar: 77
Can you help? Like I said, I am desperate to sleep again. Thank you!
Bre
5. Carnitine and Red Meat Argument with a Doctor [45:45]
Haley says:
Hey Robb and Nicki,
Thanks for all the awesome information you put out there, I have listening for several years now. Started when I was in school to become a dietitian and glad I did to realize that a lot of the info being taught and pushed on us was unfortunately out dated. Now I am currently working in a community health center where I work closely with the doctors who send me referrals and unfortunately sometimes feel as though I have to work within the box of their nutrition beliefs. The other day I was discussing the Impossible burger with one of the doctors. I argued against it saying it was just processed food and I would MUCH rather someone eat the real thing and actually get some real nutrition from it. He felt differently arguing that red meat was one of the worst things you could eat because of the carnitine. Unfortunately he didn’t really seem open to a discussion about it as he was set ins beliefs but I was curious what some of the points you would maybe make to convince him red meat is not the poison he is convinced it is.
Thanks!
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Transcript:
Download a copy of this transcript here (PDF)
Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice.
Nicki: Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.
Robb: Good morning, wife.
Nicki: Good morning. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio.
Robb: Wow. That’s very something. I’m not sure what exactly, but something.
Nicki: You’ve got to do the proper welcome.
Robb: Like a British proper breakfast or something?
Nicki: I don’t know anything. I’m the wrong one to ask for proper things.
Robb: You’re pretty proper.
Nicki: Let alone proper British things.
Robb: Well, I do know it has eggs, kind of a ham or bacon-y item, some beans, sliced tomatoes. I forget what else.
Nicki: Beans, huh?
Robb: Yeah. Yeah. It burned into my memory when we went to Denmark or something like that and we had to stop in Heathrow or something and it was the proper British breakfast. It was actually pretty on point. I was surprised.
Nicki: You just didn’t eat the beans?
Robb: I had a few of the beans. I mean when in London.
Nicki: When in London.
Robb: Yeah, yeah. As it were.
Nicki: Nice, nice. Let’s see. We had snow this week.
Robb: We did. We did.
Nicki: That was crazy.
Robb: I told the kids we don’t have to move now. They almost murdered me on the spot.
Nicki: We had snow for a full … It was a full day-
Robb: Full day. It actually stuck a little bit.
Nicki: … of legitimate snowflakes. Big, legitimate snowflakes. It stuck a little bit. I mean it was not even a half an inch. It was very little, a dusting.
Robb: The kids went outside and played in it all damn day.
Nicki: They were giddy. They were happy. What else? We had a really interesting conversation with a friend of ours.
Robb: You sure you want to dig into this?
Nicki: I think it’s worth talking about because I don’t think it’s being talked about enough.
Robb: It’s not being talked about. When people talk about things these days, they get their heads lobbed off. Part of me is just kind of like, “We need to put on a good face for everything and keep our heads down and just hope that nobody notices us at this point.” But there’s also enough out there that I guess we just-
Nicki: I think that this is-
Robb: Benign?
Nicki: … benign in that regard.
Robb: It’s really not, because of pain … Anyway, anyway, let’s dig into it a little bit.
Nicki: We got a phone call from a friend and he shared his experience on the night of New Year’s Day. He said that he was home getting ready to go to bed. It was 10:30 and he received a phone call or he looked at his phone and there was a missed call from one of his best childhood friends. This friend of ours is our age. He’s in his early 40s. So a friend that he’s known his whole life and it was this friend’s father. So he called him back right away. The man said, “Hey-“
Robb: Our boy isn’t doing good.
Nicki: “Our boy isn’t doing good.” He’s like, “We’re on our way.” They live four or five hours away. They were in the car driving. He’s like, “Could you go over and check on him?” So of course, our friend said, “Absolutely. I’ll head right over.” He went over there and had to kind of break into the house. Apparently, this man, he has a family, wife and kids. The wife had taken the kids and left on Christmas, I guess. He found his friend in the bathroom, passed out drunk.
Nicki: Our friend describes his friend as being just the most rock-solid, successful, he’s a high performer in mergers and acquisitions, great family guy, just head on his shoulders, not a drinker, just a social, affable, gregarious, salt-of-the-earth kind of guy. Never in a million years would he expect to find his friend in this situation.
Robb: Like had there been a lineup of 100 people that this friend of ours knew, the guy that is drunk on the floor, unconscious would have been-
Nicki: Would have been the last one.
Robb: … the last one he would picked.
Nicki: The last one he would have chosen.
Robb: Yeah.
Nicki: So he wakes him up. The guy’s like, “What are you doing here?” He’s like, “It’s New Year’s.”
Robb: Let’s catch up.
Nicki: “Let’s catch up with some stuff.” So he gets him up, gets him outside, tries to get him sober. The guy’s saying, “I just can’t do this anymore. I can’t do my job.”
Robb: I can’t do another year.
Nicki: “I can’t do another year of this. I can’t do my job. That’s what I love.” It really, for our friend, and we’re not using his name because you all-
Robb: Variety of reasons.
Nicki: Yeah, for a variety of reasons. But it really hit him super hard.
Robb: This friend is also very solid, steadfast, hard to rattle, and he was rattled.
Nicki: For the first time.
Robb: For the first time in weeks.
Nicki: Yeah. This was the first time we’ve ever been like, “Oh gosh. He was pretty shaken up about this.” So it sounds like the guy was so drunk on Christmas morning that he couldn’t get out of bed to have Christmas with his family, nonfunctioning. So the wife took the kids. Our friend is asking him, “Is she cheating on you?” He’s trying to get to the root-
Robb: Are you cheating on her?
Nicki: “Are you cheating on her? Is there a financial issue? Do you need money?” He’s trying to figure out what caused this. There’s none of that. It’s just the fact that he … We’ve-
Robb: What he said was, “I can’t do my job.” Now, this is something in this day and age, people of means are horrible people and they should probably be turned out in the street and probably flogged or what have you. But this guy was not hurting for money. His financial side is not hurting. He can’t do what he does. He’s a very gregarious-
Nicki: He feels like he has no purpose.
Robb: He has no purpose.
Nicki: Yeah.
Robb: He’s got money. He’s got a family. He could just hunker in and a lot of people would be like, “Well, fuck that guy. He just needs to do this, that, and the other.” But this is a person who is purpose-driven and his purpose is doing his job.
Nicki: And the interaction that comes with that, a really gregarious person. He thrives on this interpersonal interaction.
Robb: Let me just throw this out there real quick. That is a deep insight in and of itself when we’ve got this world writ large where it’s like, “Hey, just stay home and the government will send you money and you have no fucking purpose.” Everybody actually is like this guy. There’s just varying degrees of it. Some people can pivot and maybe find different purpose. Really, that is the only thing that you can do in this situation. This is perhaps the reason why this guy is having as rough a time as he has had.
Robb: He needed to build a canoe in his basement that he couldn’t get back out or something. This is me as the outside kind of putting my editorial in there. But there’s this reality. He’s not hurting for money. He’s got a family. His life is as stable otherwise as it could be, but once his agency around what he loves to do was taking from him, he’s a disaster-
Nicki: He’s hurting.
Robb: He got checked into a treatment clinic. We haven’t really heard an update from that. Again, I’m not entirely sure what the purpose was to sharing this other than we were really concerned.
Nicki: There are a lot of people hurting, I guess is the point. I think all of us in this extremely heated and divisive time could do well to just understand that a lot of people are hurting. All along people are like, “Put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. You don’t know what other people have going on in their life.” I think that is more true now than ever before, regardless of all the things at play that are trying to divide us and keep us divided as a nation and as a, gosh, a world. It’s happening all over the world. It’s not just here.
Nicki: Clearly, there’s a lot of stuff happening here in the United States, but there’s a lot at play in other countries as well, as we see people posting from other countries in The Healthy Rebellion. But I think we all just need to have some compassion for our fellow humans right now. We are far more alike than we are different, regardless of what the media is trying to make us believe. I don’t know. It was a really sobering moment for our friend. And then him relaying it to us, it was just like, “Holy shit.” This is one example, but it’s happening everywhere.
Robb: It’s happening everywhere. We’ve known and we hear about it. I don’t know. Nicki and I debated cracking this one open. I’m almost at the spot where it’s like, “Well, let’s just put a shiny, rosy face on everything and everything’s great.” I just suck at doing that but it’s … I don’t know. I think compassion has kind of left the building and I don’t know if or when it’s going to come back, because one must be of a specific mindset and only one mindset to be worthy of compassion at this point. Also, it’s looking like if you are of a particular demographic, then I don’t know if you get any compassion.
Robb: I don’t know if there’s any left in the world for you. So I don’t know. I think there’s some good intentions some places, but it’s getting ever more challenging for me to believe that. It just feels much more cryptic and strangling. I know COVID’s going great guns and people are having a hell of a time. Hospitals are stressed. But the other side of this, as we’ve said from day one, there is a cost associated with even what we’re trying to do on these mitigating sides of things. It seems to be getting ever more hazardous to even entertain the cost benefit of what we’re doing. But I guess we’ll keep doing it until we can’t.
Nicki: Okay. Let’s move on from that. Let’s see. I have a few housekeeping items today, the day that this episode releases. Friday the 15th of January is our kickoff call for our seven-day carb test and 30-day reset here inside The Healthy Rebellion community. The seven-day carb test will start on Monday the 18th and then that runs for seven days, one week. And then the 30-day reset starts on January 25th. As we’ve mentioned before, the seven-day carb test is completely optional. If you know that you don’t do well with carbs, don’t do it. If you’re curious about some particular carbs and how your body responds to them, then that would be a perfect place to dig in and kind of figure that out.
Nicki: But if you want to get in on this reset, you’ll want to join. The absolute cutoff to do the reset is January 25th, which is the day that the 30-day reset starts. So again, the seven-day carb test is optional. If you want to jump in and do that, join now. But if you want to get in on this reset, you got to join us by January 25th at midnight.
Robb: We don’t let laggards in, no matter how nice they may be.
Nicki: We don’t. We don’t. We do it all together. We’ve had people join after the fact and say, “Can I get in?” The answer is no.
Robb: The answer is no.
Nicki: There’s a process and we all go through it together. I wanted to read something actually from one of our rebels, Tracy, who joined us last year. She posted this a few days ago in The Healthy Rebellion. It’s a picture of her looking radiant with a huge smile on her face on some cross-country skis.
Nicki: She says, “I finally got off my NordicTrack ski machine and onto some real snow. I spent a couple of hours today skiing on a local golf course that is a five-minute walk from my home. Last year I was too overweight and out of shape to do this. I’ve noticed a lot of people joining The Healthy Rebellion recently and I wanted to let you know that my joining last March was one of the best decisions I have made. Being a rebel is super sweet.” So that was super cool.
Nicki: I wanted to just share that because she has made just some amazing progress over the last year. Just seeing her with this beautiful smile and out doing-
Robb: She looks amazing. She looks great.
Nicki: … something that she loves and looking amazing, moving her body and being outdoors. This is what we do. This is why we do what we do, because this is living, living a good life. Did our efflux or something go on.
Robb: It might have.
Nicki: It seems like our screen just-
Robb: I don’t know if that will affect the video. One second. There we are.
Nicki: Okay. There we go.
Robb: Back into the melatonin-degrading-
Nicki: Yes, blue light. That’s what we need for this. All right, hubs. What do you have for our news topic today?
Robb: A pretty cool paper, Immunological Memory to SARS-CoV-2 Assessed for up to Eight Months After Infection. There’s an attached PowerPoint. This thing’s cool. It’s a paper. Again, not an immunologist, not a virologist, but this thing looks at the different immune responses that we see in response to infection in general, but SARS-CoV-2 virus in particular. So there’s been all this kind of back and forth and gnashing of teeth. Well, antibody titers go up and then they drop.
Robb: It makes it tougher to track versus some other types of infections. But it basically makes the case that at eight months, which is about as far out as we’ve been looking … It’s kind of annoying the way these papers are written. It’s like, “At six months, SARS COVID …” It’s like, “Fuck, it only lasts for six months?” It’s like, “No, we’ve been looking at it for six months.” So this one’s pushing out to eight months. But it looks at some of the elements of the innate immune response, some of the cytokine storm, but also looks at antibody production, and then also B-cell and T-cell activity over this long haul.
Robb: It makes the case that there’s probably some pretty robust immunity generally in response to this virus. I think that there’s going to be variations to that. There’s always variations to things. We ran it by our in-house PhD in immunology and she was like, “Yeah, this looks good. They dotted the I’s, crossed the T’s.” And then in the show notes there’s also an attached PowerPoint that breaks down the graphics that they had talking about the different characteristics of the immune response. It’s pretty accessible even if you don’t have a massive scientific background.
Robb: But I think it paints a pretty favorable picture for longer term immunity in these scenarios, I mean at least eight months to a year. We don’t know really beyond that. There are different variants popping up due to mutations and whatnot. So what’s that going to mean over the long-term? What does this mean with regards to the vaccines? There’s a lot of different moving parts that we really don’t know about yet. But I think just from this basic thing of … There have been some things suggested that people have immunity for three weeks or something.
Robb: I think that this paints a pretty good counterpoint to that. But again, maybe some polymorphisms of folks fall into that category. So we’ll see.
Nicki: Okay. Again, that will be available on robbwolf.com and the show notes for this episode. Let’s see. It’s time for our Healthy Rebellion T-shirt winner. Our review winner this week goes to Shantini, Health Rebel. She says, “Being a rebel has been in my blood literally as long as I can remember. For the last 10 years or so, I’ve been channeling my rebellion into my health and knowledge of what it really means to be healthy. Robb and Nicki have been a big part of that. Being a rebel is a good thing. Questioning the status quo, opening our minds, and through the last 10 months or so, I believe, questioning the narrative is empowering and necessary. Keep it up. Thank you. You two are a huge part of the change.”
Robb: Thank you.
Nicki: That’s an awesome review. Thank you, Shantini. Send us an email to [email protected] and please include your T-shirt size and your mailing address and we will send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio T-shirt. This episode and every episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio in 2021 is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte brand, LMNT. Since launching this company close to three years ago, we’ve heard some amazing stories from people all around the world and several different camps on the benefits they’ve experienced from LMNT and, in particular, increasing their sodium intake.
Nicki: Clearly, the low-carb camp benefits greatly from paying attention to their electrolyte status. But one of the communities that’s seen enormous benefit from using LMNT has been the POTS community.
Robb: Yeah. This was something that we had no idea. It was not on our radar at all.
Nicki: It was one of these pleasant surprises that our product was so helpful.
Robb: Very cool. If folks aren’t familiar, POTS is a condition called postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. In essence, the person goes from seated to standing, their heart rate really goes up rapidly, but it’s not able to keep the fluid volume going, to be able to maintain consciousness. So the people can pass out. Mainly affects kids, although it does affect adults also. It’s well-understood to be mitigated at least to some degree with proper sodium intake, but it’s hard to get that into folks. So we started getting tagged in these POTS communities where folks were like, “This works amazing for us.”
Robb: Very, very cool because if you think about it, if you are prone to passing out at just willy-nilly throughout the day, really high likelihood of injury and potentially even death-
Nicki: And head trauma, yep. Yep.
Robb: … from traumatic brain injury and whatnot. Yeah.
Nicki: I wanted to read a message that our customer service team received from a woman named Sophie. She says, “I have to tell you how much I love your product. I’ve previously avoided using LMNT because I usually get headaches when I consume stevia. My husband does too, so I know I’m not just imagining it. Anyway, I have POTS and I have been in a flare for the past 18 months due to another health condition. I hated consuming the other electrolytes because of the sugar content, so I finally decided to try yours instead. I got the free sample pack a couple weeks ago and loved it. The flavors are amazing and, even better, no headache.
Nicki: “I assume it has something to do with the quality or quantity of the stevia, but who knows? I immediately ordered four boxes and I’ve been feeling so much better the last couple weeks since switching to your electrolytes. I don’t feel like I need to drink more than one a day just to keep my minerals in check, although I want to because they’re so delicious. So thank you for making such a delicious, high-quality product. It’s a lifesaver.”
Robb: Pretty cool. Pretty cool.
Nicki: Super cool review. So if you haven’t tried LMNT electrolytes, you’ve still got a couple weeks left to take advantage of the free-plus-shipping offer that’s going on now through January 31st of 2021. You can get a free eight-count sample pack. All you do is pay for shipping, which is just $5 for folks in the United States, and you’ll get two sticks each of citrus salt, raspberry, orange, and the raw unflavored. Just go to drinklmnt.com/robb and that will take you to the page with the sample pack and free-plus-shipping offer. That is D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T slash R-O-B-B. Remember, that’s good through the end of this month.
Robb: Cool.
Nicki: Okay. Let’s see. Time for questions. Our first one, on this one, I think I did it. Let me see. Let me just double check here really quick. This is a 100% women question episode.
Robb: Nice.
Nicki: When I was putting these questions together, I didn’t do it intentionally. But at the end I was like, “Oh gosh. I think this is mostly women.” But yeah. It’s 100%. This first one is from Tammy on ketosis and perimenopause.
Nicki: She says, “I’ve been practicing a keto diet, leaning toward carnivore, for three-plus months. I’ve been struggling to stay in ketosis. I’m doing daily blood testing and I’ve been unable to identify the reasons for my sometimes dramatic swings in glucose and keto numbers. I do have “bad food decision days,” but the numbers don’t seem to correlate. I’m middle-aged and believe I’m perimenopausal. Could the hormone fluctuations be causing my ketosis struggles? Side note, I’m working with a naturopath to keep my nutrition focused. Thank you for your time and information.”
Robb: What do you think on this?
Nicki: Well, first of all, we don’t know exactly … I mean she says she’s eating keto. What is the composition of that keto diet is the first thing that comes to mind. This is something that’s pretty common. Is it adequate protein, as in a gram per pound of lean body mass? And then the bad … Go ahead.
Robb: Could hormones fluctuating be part of the problem? Maybe a little bit. But one, why are you tracking? What’s your perception of what the benefit of one ketone level versus another? The main deal is get your stuff dialed in, which the Ketogains Macro Calculator is a darn good place to start with that. If you’re calculating this based off of percentages, that’s a disaster. It virtually never works or it never works long time. And then when I hear the, “I do have bad food decision days,” I get it. But there’s usually more. It’s kind of like the thief confessing on the witness …
Robb: It’s like, “Okay. There might be more going on there.” But at the end of the day, the testing should bracket or benchmark some things, just give a little bit of lane lines. But it’s not the goal. It is not the end state.
Nicki: A lot of people, Tammy, do keto and don’t show significant blood ketone levels. They might be low. I don’t know if you’re looking for body composition change or why you’re choosing to do keto or carnivore. But most people do it either for they’re trying to lose weight or they want some sort of neurological or cognitive benefit from it.
Robb: Or they just feel better from it.
Nicki: Or they just feel better from it. So obviously, testing your blood ketone levels is one way. But you could ditch that and just stick on plan. If it is a body composition thing that you’re looking for, take photos. We have this thing that we call the tight pants test that we use in the keto masterclass where you find a pair of tight pants. You put them on and kind of take notes on how they fit. Can I zip them up? It’s hard to get over my hips or whatever it is.
Nicki: Or I can zip them, but they’re super tight. And then put them away for a month and try them on in a month. So there’s other ways to gauge progress other than just the blood ketone levels.
Robb: Yeah. Yeah. Again, someday we will figure out a call-in process because there’s a ton of questions that would be helpful to know on this. But I think that that’s probably pretty good to get Tammy going.
Nicki: Okay. Our next question is from Valerie on liver. “Hey, Robb and Nicki. First, I am so glad to be a part of The Healthy Rebellion. Thanks for all the work you do and the content you provide. Here’s a bit of background before I ask my questions. I have been trying to incorporate more organs in my diet because with all the info out there, it seems like the way to go for optimal health. I also cannot tolerate many veggies. I eat mostly beef, fish, eggs, kimchi, beets, carrots, kefir, some sweet potatoes, and honey on occasion.
Nicki: “So I worry that I’m not getting all the nutrients I need with such a limited array of food choices. I have added bone marrow, which I tolerate well, and liver. Liver, however, does not sit well with me. Every time I eat it I feel sick afterwards, not necessarily nauseous, but just an overall feeling of being unwell, and it lasts a few hours. So my first question is what could be causing this? Second, is liver all the hype it’s been touted out to be? Can I still reach optimal health without incorporating it into my diet? What do you suggest? Thanks a million.”
Robb: It could be the iron content. Valerie may be at a point where she’s got plenty of iron. Usually, in premenopausal women, iron overload isn’t an issue. But maybe she’s fine for-
Nicki: Well, we don’t know how old Valerie is. She’s not necessarily premenopausal.
Robb: I know. But I’m just saying in that context. So whatever the case is, Valerie may be topped off on-
Nicki: Iron.
Robb: … iron. So that would be a first one, would be the main thing that I would think about that. I guess it could be vitamin D or something. But that seems kind of odd. And then do you have to eat organ meat? It’s funny. I know there’s from Weston A. Price to Paul Saladino to there’s, “Man, you got to eat all those organ meats.” I know, to some degree, there’s probably this element of acculturation, I guess. If you didn’t have it as a kid, then maybe you don’t like it so much as an adult.
Robb: But there’s lots and lots and lots of things that I never ate as a kid and I ate it as an adult and I’m like, “That actually is pretty good. It’s very, very novel.” I like some liver cooked with onions. We’ve figured out a couple of different ways of eating heart. I will never in my life eat kidney. I think I will literally starve to death before that. That’s just where it is. I’ve had some brain tacos and stuff like that. They’re okay. They’re pretty good. I wouldn’t call them really good.
Robb: So I’m kind of underwhelmed with this just based off of palatability. It’s kind of like, “Well, if it’s that goddamn good for you, why doesn’t it just knock your socks off?” People will say, “Well, it’s because you haven’t been raised eating it.” Again, there’s a bunch of things that I’ve added in over time that I wasn’t raised with, but I rapidly developed an appetite for and a taste for. And then there’s other things where I’m like, “I don’t know that this is ever really going to be that great.” That’s more of a personal preference type deal.
Robb: Maybe this is the confirmation bias coming in. But we have examples of folks in the carnivore scene that have done one-cut carnivore for years, for 20 years, Charlene Anderson. Again, n=1, very small sample size. Even for Valerie, she’s mentioning having way more latitude in her diet than what many people have, and they motor along just fine. Now, I don’t know that that’s the right situation for everybody under all circumstances. But I’m actually in the kind of underwhelmed camp with regards to organ meats. It’s like, “Eh, if you like them, go for it.”
Robb: I really like soups with tripe, like pho and menudo and stuff like that. Love it. I guess to the degree that you like things, go ahead and do it.
Nicki: That’s part of my question. I’m wondering, Valerie, if you like liver. When you eat it, does it taste good to you? Or is it something that you’re kind of forcing yourself to eat and then afterwards you feel ill because psychologically you’re like, “Ugh,” but you’re eating it just because you feel like you should?
Robb: Even on liver, again, a liver and onions thing I like pretty well. A really well put-together pate, I can smash. You hit on a really good point. Is it just palatable to her?
Nicki: Right. Because if you’re forcing yourself to eat it and you really don’t like the taste or however you’re preparing it, then I don’t know. I think a lot of people-
Robb: It’s going to be tough.
Nicki: … can kind of be like, “Ugh, I don’t really feel good,” like you just forced yourself to eat something that you didn’t like. I don’t know if that was helpful.
Robb: At the end of the day, I would look at different ways of making the stuff palatable possibly. And then also, if you don’t like it … Also, I’m at this point where it’s like, “I’m an adult. I’m going to be 49 soon.”
Nicki: I’ll just say that I really prefer chicken liver over beef liver, far. Maybe it’s just that I haven’t-
Robb: It’s much more mild.
Nicki: … prepared the beef liver.
Robb: No. Everybody accepts that it’s way more mild. Yeah, yeah.
Nicki: Okay. Let’s see. Our next question is from Lindsay, proteins, calories, and the missing link. She says, “Hi, Robb and Nicki. I love the podcast and the resources on the website. Thanks for providing logical and fair information to people to tap into. Also, Robb, I love it when you use the term, noodling, and I’m trying to bring it into the everyday vocabulary of my college students. They don’t think it’s cool enough yet. Quick background information, I’m a 37-year-old female, 5’5”, 168 pounds, and around 34% body fat, extremely familiar with paleo and keto and even did PaleoZone back when that was cool.
Nicki: “I’m strength training two to three times a week, high intensity intervals one to two times a week, walking every day. I saw Robb speak in Flagstaff, Arizona back in 2008, believe it or not.” Nice. “About a year ago I became desperate because I wasn’t losing fat, despite my strict adherence to Paleo. I thought maybe a coach could help me figure out the key to whatever I was missing. I decided to grab a Layne Norton coach, low-fat, high-carb, high-protein, who kept lowering my calories and upping my cardio and wouldn’t allow strength training.
Nicki: “Even he was surprised at my almost nonexistent rate of loss. I ended the program at 1100 calories and about five pounds lost, which was great, but horribly unsustainable. My body only began losing a tiny bit once I was at or below the 1200-calorie mark. I felt like poop. I’ve since gained that weight back and I’ve been doing the paleo keto lifestyle. I feel better and stronger, but I am uncomfortable with the fat accumulation. I feel like I’m back at square one and none the better for it. My question centers on fat loss and its relationship to protein and overall calories.
Nicki: “You’ve both said that oftentimes the key to fat loss is protein intake, one gram per pound of body weight. However, if my body only loses at very low calorie, like in the 1000 to 1200 a day, but I need to eat 150 grams of protein a day, that doesn’t leave much room for anything else. What am I missing here? Why is my body so hellbent on keeping that body fat? I was told by the former coach that I may just need to suffer at low-calorie, high-protein until I reach my goals. But I don’t think it should be this difficult or I should have to run my body into the ground to fit into my jeans again.
Nicki: “I’m not trying to be a swimsuit competitor. I just want to be a bit leaner and stronger while seeing steady fat loss improvements. I don’t even care about the number on the scale. Quick note, I’ve been out of that Layne Norton program for about nine months. I haven’t been eating like an ass hat and I’ve tried several times to lose fat and keep my calories down, but all I seem to do is gain. I’m a wee bit frustrated because the fat used to fall off when I was eating paleo when I was between 25 and 35 years old. Thanks for your consideration.”
Robb: Man, there’s a lot going on there. I will say this. It was eye-opening to me watching Tyler and Luis work with the folks that they have in the Ketogains community where I would see folks run their numbers through the macro calculator and it was like, “Holy shit. Really? That little?” They’re like, “Yeah, that’s what it’s going to take to make this thing work.” I think some of the difference is that the higher and/or adequate protein is a big piece to making this work. Lindsay, the one gram of protein per pound of body weight is a recommendation. It’s a shooting-from-the-hip recommendation.
Robb: You raise a good point here. If your total caloric intake per day is around 1200 and we’re recommending 800 calories of protein, then it really doesn’t leave that much left over. But your actual, real deal protein needs still being within, I think, smart boundaries is probably a good bit less than that. Another point to be made a gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight. So if you want to be at 120 pounds, then maybe it’s 120 grams per day. I do think that folks get a disproportionate appetite suppression on keto, particularly adequate protein keto.
Robb: What else? What else? Also, I think it’s egregious that this individual recommended a bunch of cardio versus strength training-
Nicki: Strength training.
Robb: Low calorie plus endurance work just to fucking strip muscle mass off, what an asshole. I guess from the perspective of we might win the weight loss Olympics at a scale-
Nicki: Just on a scale.
Robb: That’s fine. But otherwise, that person needs to probably be punched in the throat. I’m trying to think of what else. I would get in, maybe check out the-
Nicki: Her training regimen seems fine.
Robb: Seems solid.
Nicki: It doesn’t seem excessive or anything like that. So that seems fine. I would ask about your sleep, how many of hours of-
Robb: Yeah, all the-
Nicki: All the standard stuff, just to keep stress levels low and allow your body to repair and recover.
Robb: Maybe getting some hormones done to just see. Certainly whether it’s thyroid or estrogen or progesterone or what have you, if hormones … She mentioned it was real easy when she was younger. Shit just gets harder when you are older. Although non-Western aging is different than Western aging, this tendency to basically become marbled, to transfer lean body mass into body fat is mitigated in non-Western societies. It does still happen. So there is just this kind of inevitable march in that direction. You got to fight like crazy to battle against it.
Robb: One of the interesting things is just that I think as time goes on, people find that they really legitimately don’t need nearly as much food if they want to be at a reasonable body fat percentage or whatever is what they thought and certainly not compared to what they could get away with in their youth. But yeah, all the other lifestyle features, like are you sleeping well, going to bed early-
Nicki: Getting some sunlight in your eyes early in the day.
Robb: Sunlight on your body. Yeah, yeah. Anything else?
Nicki: I’m reading back up here to see if I missed anything. Yeah.
Robb: I guess the long and short of it is that the protein doesn’t need to be quite as high as what Lindsay was suggesting here. But to lose body fat, to lose weight and do it effectively, it may be a surprisingly low amount of calories too.
Nicki: It might be something to try. I know it seems like a lot to hit that 150 gram and you’re wondering, that doesn’t leave room for much else. But you might not want much else. You might be full.
Robb: It’s true. It’s true.
Nicki: You might be full.
Robb: I mean this is close to-
Nicki: This is where a lot of folks that do carnivore, it simplifies their … I’m not saying that that’s something you should try. But I wouldn’t be scared of that amount of protein.
Robb: It’s close to a PSMF, a protein-sparing modified fast at that point. Those are certainly effective. People fare differently as to how they feel. Usually they feel pretty good initially if they have significant excess body fat, and they feel less well as they get leaner. So that’s where you may need to modify things. But yeah.
Nicki: Okay. Keep us posted. Let us know how you do. Okay. It is time for The Healthy Rebellion Radio Trivia.
Robb: You’re so happy with yourself.
Nicki: Let’s see. Our Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor, Drink LMNT, is giving a box of LMNT Recharge electrolytes to three lucky winners selected at random who answer the following question correctly. As we’ve mentioned before, sometimes we get a little stumped on what questions to ask in the trivia. This one, Robb, how many licks to get to the middle of a Tootsie Roll?
Robb: 3.14.
Nicki: Isn’t that pi?
Robb: Yes.
Nicki: All right. 3.14. To play-
Robb: It’s the beginning of pi. Pi goes on for quite a ways.
Nicki: It is. To play, go to robbwolf.com/trivia and enter your answer and we’ll randomly select three people with the correct answer to win a box of electrolytes from LMNT. The cutoff to answer the trivia and be eligible to win is Thursday, January 21st at midnight. We’ll notify winners via email and also announce them on Instagram as well. This is open to residents of the US only.
Nicki: Our fourth question this week is from Bree on hair loss and sleep issues on keto. “Hi, Robb and Nicki. I absolutely love your podcast. I credit you both to literally changing my health and the health of my family. I found your podcast when I was in a very desperate health place. Through your advice and books, I have found healing, vitality, and freedom. So thank you so much. I pray you keep doing what you’re doing for a very long time.” That is awesome.
Robb: Thank you.
Nicki: “Some quick context before asking my two questions. I’m a 43-year-old female, 5’4” and 150 pounds, moderately active. I walk a few miles a day and weight lift a few times a week, but I do work at a desk all day as well. I had thyroid cancer and a full thyroidectomy 10 years ago and I’ve taken Synthroid and Cytomel since. My endocrinologist aims to keep my TSH pretty suppressed to keep risk of returning cancer low. So he has kept me between 0.1 to 1.0 for the last 10 years.
Nicki: “Before finding the keto carnivore diet a year ago, I felt like I was dying, and not a single doctor could help me. Turns out I was just a hormonal storm with insulin resistance and leptin resistance, et cetera. For the last year, I’ve strictly followed a clean keto diet, mostly consisting of eggs, beef, ground turkey, bone broth, and Greek yogurt, with the occasional salad or some berries. My macros are consistently 70 grams of protein, 50 grams of fat, and 10 grams of carb.
Nicki: “After a decade of eating around 1200 calories non-keto, I’ve needed to keep my total calories at or around 900 to 1000 in order to lose. If I go any higher, I just don’t lose. I’m five pounds away from hitting my 50-pound weight loss goal. But most importantly, I feel amazing for the first time since having my thyroid out. My skin is great. My energy is off the charts and I no longer have GI issues. My moods and cycles have stabilized. Overall, I feel like a million bucks, except for two little issues. One, my sleep sucks. I sleep super light. I feel like I can never get into a deep sleep, and I wake up several times a night, often not being able to fall back asleep.
Nicki: “Up until going keto, I had never suffered with sleep issues. I take Ned’s Sleep CBD, do blue light-blocking glasses at night, no screen time, et cetera, and I have a great bed and make my room pitch black. I also use BLUblox sleep mask. No matter what I do, I just can’t sleep deep. I’m desperate to sleep deep and through the night again. Number two, my hair’s falling out at a concerning speed, also something I feel has been triggered by my diet. I take Perfect Keto’s collagen and I take bio optimizers, magnesium, zinc, and vitamin B complex. Is there anything else I can add into the supplement mix to help with this?
Nicki: “I should mention, because sleep and hair loss can be thyroid-level issues, I did just get my levels checked and they are right where they have always been for the last few years, except 3T3 was a little lower than normal. Can you help? I’m desperate to sleep again. Thanks.”
Robb: The real simple low-hanging fruit is, well, one, I feel like her protein’s a little low, just as a background-
Nicki: I do too.
Robb: 70 grams. I know that she’s trying to keep her calories low, but I think 100 grams of protein minimum would be good. I would recommend bumping the protein up as a minimum.
Nicki: You could drop the fat if you want to keep your calories where you have them.
Robb: Yeah. From there, how are electrolytes?
Nicki: That was what was coming up for me because-
Robb: Both the sleep and this hair loss problem, anything that starts looking adrenal or thyroid in nature, low carb, and we’re not addressing electrolytes, specifically sodium, that’s kind of where the rubber hits the road with that. You could use LMNT or you could just-
Nicki: Make your home brew.
Robb: … make your home brew, whatever you want to do with that. But you got to get at least five grams of sodium per day, at least, possibly more.
Nicki: Ramp up. If you’re not doing any right now, ramp up to that over time.
Robb: Well, and it should be spread out throughout the day.
Nicki: Spread out, yeah.
Robb: In particular, maybe a half gram to a gram before bed. This is the Chris Masterjohn deal-
Nicki: Salt shot.
Robb: … that we’ve seen so much benefit. You’ve been doing chocolate salt before bed and sleeping through the whole night.
Nicki: Yeah. Well, Kristen, one of our members of The Healthy Rebellion, she … I’ve tried the salt shot. I didn’t really notice benefit from that. And then she mentioned that she didn’t either, but then she was doing a chocolate salt before … She drinks it an hour before bed and then you pee a couple times before you go to bed. And then she’s been sleeping through the night. So I tried it and I have not had to get up to pee either.
Robb: Yeah. Yeah. So I would really look at the electrolytes and sodium. And then you might consider having your thyroid levels run by somebody more in the functional medicine space, looking at if there’s any reverse T3 considerations and whatnot, just maybe a little bit of a different angle on that. Guillermo Ruiz-
Nicki: Ruiz.
Robb: … is outstanding at this stuff. I was just on his podcast. That should be going up by the time this one goes up. He’s a great person to reach out to. He works with Tyler and Luis of Ketogains as well. But the two things I would recommend or I guess three, increase the protein a little bit. Definitely make sure that you’re on point with sodium, electrolytes in general, but sodium in particular. Make sure that you get up to at least five grams of sodium per day. And then I would get a follow-up reassessment on the thyroid meds, just thyroid levels.
Nicki: Okay. All righty. Let’s see. Our final question this week is from Haley, carnitine and red meat argument with a doctor. “Hey, Robb and Nicki. Thanks for all the awesome information you put out there. I’ve been listening for several years now. I started when I was in school to become a dietitian and glad I did, to realize that a lot of the info being taught and pushed on us was unfortunately outdated. Now I’m currently working in a community health center where I work closely with the doctors who send me referrals and, unfortunately, sometimes feel as though I have to work within the box of their nutrition beliefs.
Nicki: “The other day I was discussing Impossible Burger with one of the doctors. I argued against it, saying that it was just processed food and I would much rather someone eat the real thing and actually get some real nutrition from it. He felt differently, arguing that red meat was one of the worst things you could eat because of the carnitine. Unfortunately, he didn’t really seem open to a discussion about it, as he was set in beliefs. But I was curious what some of the points you would maybe make to convince him red meat is not the poison he is convinced it is.”
Robb: I mean pretty good starting place is Sacred Cow. I’ve written several pieces also, like my rebuttal of What the Health. There’s a lot of material out there on time. But I mean carnitine is one of the most odd … Carnitine is an amino acid that is essential in moving fat into the mitochondria for use as a fuel. I just can’t think of a goofier thing to go after. If somebody just looks at the news headlines and they buy the plant-based propaganda, it’s kind of you can’t really blame them because it comes at us from every direction. Now plant-based is getting tied in as the savior to climate change and all the rest of it.
Robb: So this is only going to accelerate and it’s going to get worse. I’ve been warning people about this for close to 10 years. But it’s really, really ratcheting up now-
Nicki: Coming on strong, yeah.
Robb: It’s coming on really strong. Sacred Cow, we have a third of the book is dedicated to the nutritional side of things. We debunk a bunch of meat causes cancer, meat invokes type 2 diabetes. Otherwise, it’s kind of a random hodgepodge of resources. People tackle this in different places. But we did a pretty darn good job tackling it there. Again, on the carnitine side, I just can’t, for the life of me, think of why this doctor singled, of all things you could maybe go after, like iron or a host of things, carnitine.
Robb: It illustrates that this person got through biochemistry and definitely didn’t take much of it with him or her. So yeah.
Nicki: It’s hard because sometimes if he’s so closed to it, even if you gave him a copy of Sacred Cow, he probably wouldn’t read it.
Robb: No, it’s unlikely.
Nicki: It’s hard to convince people who are so rooted in their beliefs. But gosh, it’s almost like you wish that you could showcase some of these before and after, specifically because he’s so anti-red meat, of some of these folks doing carnivore. I used to follow this gal on Instagram when I had the Instagram app on my phone, now I rarely go on. But I believe her handle was, I might get it wrong. I think it was Conscious Carnivore. She lives in Europe somewhere. I want to say maybe Sweden or Norway.
Nicki: Her feed is just all the foods that she eats. She’s not one-cut carnivore. She eats eggs. She eats all variety of animal products. She just glows in her pictures. Her before and after pictures are just stunning. If you could put on display some of these folks that have just completely transformed their health in the most amazing, obvious way if you’re looking at what the person looked like before, I mean skin issues, red blotchy skin, not lean. She said her hair was falling out and not healthy. And then you look at her now. There’s a lot of examples.
Nicki: Lots of people have had this experience once they heal their gut and they find that they’re actually nourishing their bodies instead of eating all of the fake, processed stuff that’s pulling health and vitality out of us.
Robb: Well, even just the plants that aren’t working for them.
Nicki: Exactly, exactly. Haley, unfortunately, I don’t know how you convince him. I don’t know that he is convince-able. I wish more people were open to seeing what an alternative meat-inclusive or meat-based diet could do.
Robb: It’s a tough meme to fight in that we’ve got this wall of information that suggests that meat is bad for our health. And then there’s this ever-growing story that I think the health piece is going to just drift into the background. It’s like, “Well, of course it causes all these diseases. By the way, meat is destroying the environment. So we need to ban it, tax it, publicly shame people.” Maybe they’re unemployable. Who knows? This whole host of things there. And then you put a bow on the top of all of it where if you don’t eat meat, then you’re morally superior.
Nicki: Unfortunately, we’ve had this discussion inside The Healthy Rebellion. We see this is probably going to just get worse and worse. If you look at the World Economic Forum and all of the information about their great reset, which is what they’re working to enact by 2030, they come out and clearly say, “You will eat less meat. It’ll just be an occasional treat.”
Robb: Some people will say, “Well, that should be fine.” It’s like, “Well, it possibly should be fine for you individually if you choose to do that.” Possibly the global financial and economic market shouldn’t be manipulated in a way to bring that about. And then again, looking at Sacred Cow and what we talk about there on the actual mitigating climate change side, you may be nuking one of the most favorable tools we have in addressing this topic. Now, this is still a contentious topic. There are people that push back that regenerative agriculture can really play that much of a role in climate change.
Robb: Really, at the end of the day, truth be told, I think it’s all kind of bullshit one way or the other on the food production side specifically. Transportation is the largest player, period. If you are really concerned about climate change, fucking double down on nuclear energy, get fusion energy going, and then we have literally unlimited energy. We can pull carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and use this carbon as a building source to build the shit that we want to build.
Robb: If you get right goddamn down to it, and now I’m fired up into my salty talk mode. But all the rest of this stuff is just kind of bullshit. People are so fucking ignorant of the mechanisms that we can’t even have a discussion around that. But the ability to have that discussion is getting ever more constrained. So I’ll dial myself back down and maintain low tones. But it is interesting that, well, I already said it. But there is debate as to what the true utility of regenerative agriculture is in this story. As a baseline, as a minimum, if we “just reverse desertification” everywhere that we can and let’s say that isn’t even a net carbon sync, although it will be.
Robb: But if we just did that, you’re increasing the ability to produce food and mitigate climate change issues on a massive scale and you’re providing food in areas that are, they’re desertified. They’re unusable. So you’re stopping that. You could potentially reverse that. We could do this in a host of places around the world. Surprisingly, is in areas that people are remarkably poor and have very little in the way of resources. We could as a singular item, even if the amount of greenhouse gases that grazing animals produce doubled in those areas, which it won’t, but let’s say it did.
Robb: It would still fucking be worth it to do that because of the food production and the water retention and preventing the world turning into a desert. Where we’re headed is that people are being deplatformed right now for different political leanings. We know that we’ve been shadow banned and had problems-
Nicki: In the past on Facebook.
Robb: … in the past because of promoting low-carb and meat-inclusive diets. People are having their merchant processors disappear. People thought that their being able to send out their email list was a safe backstop and none of it is. If you get sufficiently to the wrong side of whatever the-
Nicki: The narrative du jour is.
Robb: You’re fucked.
Nicki: And you have no recourse because all of-
Robb: All the ways of reaching people are blocked to you.
Nicki: All aspects of your business are reliant on a big tech company. I don’t know. It’s a scary time and I don’t know how we ended up over time. It all ties into the meat. It all ties into the food and food production.
Robb: This is the funny thing is it ties into everything. All of it is linked.
Nicki: I just shudder at the thought of how many people will be ever more sick and overweight and unable to reach optimal health if they do really make meat a thing that you can only have occasionally. People that are, like the woman that I mentioned who is a carnivore, people like Tara from Slow Down Farmstead, people who cannot eat plants or legumes because it makes them terribly ill.
Robb: The first step to that is that people will form these kind of Luddite communities, low tech, and we raise our own food until the powers that be, in the infinite wisdom that they have, shut those down because we, our backwards, Luddite selves are causing undue damage to the planet.
Nicki: On that low note, folks-
Robb: We managed to turn this one into a salty talk.
Nicki: Hopefully, we didn’t leave you all depressed after this episode.
Robb: Some people will be like, “That’s just conspiracy theory bullshit.” Maybe it is. I really hope it is.
Nicki: I hope so too, but it’s right on the website of the World Economic Forum. It’s not a conspiracy theory if everything is actively moving that direction.
Robb: Right. Again, I’ve been beating drums for a long time about the danger of this censorship. I’m frankly stunned with the number of people that are okay with how this stuff is rolling out. It’s usually someone who for whom their side of the political coin is seemingly in the upper hand right now. But, man, that wind can change. Also, when this stuff historically has been let loose on a people, the need to constrain or the need to censor never really ends. The boundaries that it starts off in or the stated goals don’t really stay there. It becomes this thing that is an insatiable appetite.
Robb: Even though you individually may feel like you are in the good stead right now and maybe you’re even one of these people that are actively feeding others into the maw of censorship by cancel culture. It’ll come for you eventually. Yeah. I don’t know what to say on that, other than we’re at a very interesting and precarious point in history.
Nicki: I don’t know who said this, but Tim, I believe, in The Rebellion shared this quote, but I don’t know who … I’m sure some historical figure said it before. But it was, “Me today, you tomorrow.”
Robb: Yeah. Yeah.
Nicki: With that, folks. Thank you for listening. Remember to check out our show sponsor, LMNT, for all your electrolyte needs. There are just a couple weeks left to get your electrolyte sample pack from LMNT and just pay the cost of shipping. The URL for this is drinklmnt.com/robb. Again, you’ll get eight sticks, two of each of citrus, raspberry, orange, and the raw unflavored. The URL again is drinklmnt.com/robb. We will see you next time.
Robb: Awesome. Take care, folks.
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