Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.
WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.
This is an interview with our friend Adam Bremen. He has an amazing story, and has always focused on the positives; what he CAN do vs. what he can’t.. He’s a serial entrepreneur that was born with cerebral palsy. Adam has been in a wheelchair since age of 5 and has not let that stop him do tons of things like learning to surf, getting a Master’s degree, starting businesses, and much more. He’s a fantastic human being with a lot of good stuff to share.
This episode of Salty Talk is brought to you by Keto Krisp. Quite literally one of the best tasting keto bars we’ve ever had.
Keto Krisp has a special offer for Salty Talk listeners. Just visit KetoKrisp.com and get 25% off your first order with code KKPODCAST25
Nicki: Welcome to the Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is an episode of Salty Talk, a deep dive into popular and relevant healthy performance news pieces mixed with the occasional salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity. Healthy Rebellion Radio Salty Talk episodes are brought to you by Drink LMNT, the only electrolyte drink mix that’s salty enough to make a difference in how you look, feel, and perform. We co-founded this company to fill a void in the hydration space. We needed an electrolyte drink that actually met the sodium needs of active people, low carb, Keto, and carnivore adherence without any of the sugar, colors, and fillers found in popular commercial products. Health rebels, this is Salty Talk.
Nicki: And now the thing our attorney advises, the contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. And given that this Salty Talk, you should expect the occasional expletive.
Robb: Is it too much to ask, Nicki?
Nicki: It is too much to ask, hubs.
Robb: How are you this fine, fine morning?
Nicki: I’m quite good, and yourself?
Robb: Although you said I’m glassy eyed.
Nicki: Yeah, I think it just might be watery.
Robb: I just slept hard.
Nicki: You slept hard, mm-hmm (affirmative). We had a nice dinner with my cousin last night and good conversation and good connections. The kids played like maniacs outside until it was 9:00 in the dark. Good times.
Robb: Fantastic times.
Nicki: Yeah. Let’s see.
Robb: I’m a man of few words today.
Robb: Maybe I’m waking up slow.
Nicki: Apparently. Usually you carry this. Gosh, this Salty Talk episode will be our last episode of the Healthy Rebellion Radio for the year 2020.
Robb: You kind of set that up in kind of a-
Nicki: A cliff-hanger mode?
Robb: Backside puckering way. Yes.
Nicki: We’re going to take a little-
Robb: Speaking of cliff hanger, I was completely wrong on the way that Mando would wrap up.
Nicki: You were.
Robb: And if that is a…
Nicki: Well, you don’t have to divulge anything else-
Nicki: But you were wrong.
Robb: I was wrong.
Nicki: If people listened to that trivia question where you were predicting how it would end-
Robb: What I predicted, then yes.
Nicki: Predicting what you predicted then-
Robb: Should we share with people what Sagan said the other day?
Nicki: Oh, we can do that, and I don’t know where she got this. It was so strange. We were just sitting on the couch, what were we talking about? I was-
Robb: Just random stuff-
Nicki: I was confused-
Nicki: We were talking about something and I was like, “Yeah, it’s kind of confusing.” is what I said-
Robb: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nicki: And she said, and it wasn’t even like-
Robb: Nothing like-
Nicki: We weren’t even talking about other people, it was sort of like a subject matter that was sort of confusing and she goes, “Yeah, they confuse you and that way they can dominate you.” I was like, “Where did you hear that?”
Robb: Then she tapped to her head.
Nicki: She’s like, “Me.” I was like, “What have you been watching?”, because we’ve, I mean, we watch Mandalorian with the girls, some Stars Wars stuff. They get some Saturday morning cartoons on the weekends, but otherwise I’m like, “Where would you have heard something like that?”
Robb: Both kids pull out some piffy shit every once in a while, but that one in particular, you’re like, hmm, I hope that she ends up being a force.
Nicki: They get you really confused and then they can dominate you.
Robb: Yeah, I was like I hope she ends up being a force for good and not evil.
Nicki: Let’s see here. Our cold shower challenge inside the Healthy Rebellion starts on January 1st. That’s going to be week long and one of our rebels, Ash Higgs, has lined up some amazing content. It’s going to be really fun. If you’ve never done any type of cold exposure work, this is a great place to start. He’s got a ton of experience in this, so excited for that. Then our rebel reset kicks off on January 15th, so this will be our fourth rebel reset inside the Healthy Rebellion community starting with our seven-day carb test and then finishing with the 30-day rebel reset, so good times. Lots of community. Great place to be if you are needing some motivation and some community as you kick off your new year with your lifestyle goals.
Robb: It’s been in there.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: It’s been very, very good for us.
Nicki: Yep, so if you’re not a member yet, you can join. Just go to join.thehealthyrebellion.com. What else, hubs, today-
Robb: You put an Expedia kind of-
Nicki: Oh, what was that show? I used to do this with Melissa Hayes all the time. There was a… I’m totally blanking on it. There was a Hot Pocket thing that we used to sing.
Nicki: Then there was, it was the Expedia.
Nicki: Dot com, yeah.
Nicki: Something like that. Okay. Hot Pockets. Okay, so today we have a great episode for you all today. Robb interviewed a friend of ours that we have yet to meet in person, but we’ve had several Zoom conversations with and he is related to a very dear friend of ours, and I don’t know that we want to go into that in the intro because I think you guys discussed that-
Robb: It’s fine.
Nicki: In the interview.
Robb: He’s a sibling of Dave Dooley-
Robb: And we explain the genesis story along-
Nicki: A long-lost sibling.
Robb: Yeah, a long-lost sibling and it is-
Nicki: A newly found sibling, let’s put it that way.
Robb: It is an amazing story and really one of… 2020 had a lot of good things. It’s easy to get down on it, but it was one of the things that came out of 2020 as a story piece for me that was pretty damn cool.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nicki: Absolutely. Great interview coming up with Adam. Did you want to share a little bit? Okay, so his name is Adam Bremen. I’m going all over the place here, so Adam-
Robb: Adam’s a really fascinating guy, a serial entrepreneur. He was born with cerebral palsy, has been wheelchair bound since the age of-
Nicki: Five, I believe.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: And has not let that stop him doing a whole host of things, ranging from learning how to surf to-
Nicki: Starting a business.
Robb: Getting a master’s degree, getting businesses, and what was cool about meeting Adam, we had just barely started getting to know each other, just chatting and everything. Right around the time that we met him, was right around the time that some people just gave us an ass chewing online about like, “Oh, you guys are ableist.” when we just posted the Healthy Rebellion thing, make your health an act of rebellion.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Seems pretty innocuous. It’s like if you still have breath in your body and fire in your soul, then maybe you can figure out to make your life better by improving yourself in some way. It seems pretty innocuous, but goddam if people didn’t-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Just crawl up our ass about it, at least a couple of people. Interestingly, I defended ourselves on that, and these people ended up slinking back into the woodwork eventually, but we just kind of ran this by Adam. We’re like, “What do you think about that?” Adam, without a pause, said, “That is fucking bullshit.”
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: He was actually pretty fired up. He’s like, “God damn it. I’ve been in a wheelchair my whole life and I don’t let a goddam thing hold me back.” It was kind of like, huh, okay, maybe we aren’t assholes, you know-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Because we’re not out… None of this has ever been like, hey fatty, do this or do that. It’s like, hey, if you need help, we’re here to help you, and make your health an act of rebellion-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: And if you’ve got some hangups with it, then fucking talk to us and we’ll help you, you know?
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: There is an undercurrent of people out there that trying to empower them and trying to provide agency for people, like you can do it, is somehow this horrible thing and it… If you can’t tell, I am not unperky now, like I am-
Nicki: You’re fired up.
Robb: Fired up. Adam ended up gaining a lot of weight for a variety of reasons, and then started poking around and discovered a ketogenic diet as per some recommendations from his coach, and then wanted some better snack options and came up with this amazing bar, Keto Krisp, which they taste absolutely amazing, but as I pointed out in the interview, for most people that would have been enough, but it wasn’t enough. Adam also was gone on to found this organization and this movement called Can Do-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Which is basically you can goddam do it, and we’re-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: And there’s a bunch of people out there that are going to help you. We talk about a ton of different things and he’s just a fucking great guy.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Just such a shot-in-the-arm human being to hang out with. If you’re having an off day, and Adam said, he’s like, “You call me, you email me. I don’t care who you are. I don’t care what time it is. You reach out to me and I will help you.”, and that guy will.
Nicki: He just has this radiance about him when you talk to him. He lights up and you can’t help but light up in his presence.
Robb: Well, and circling back around, all of this extended Dooley-Bremen family-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Appears to have that. There’s a whole-
Nicki: Yeah, there’s some magic sauce in that DNA.
Robb: There is some magic sauce in the DNA and-
Nicki: The sauce that went into all those kids was magical sauce.
Robb: It was apparently pretty magical, yes, and if that doesn’t intrigue people enough to listen to this thing, nothing will.
Nicki: Yeah, you guys will talk about all the details there.
Nicki: Yeah. All right. Let’s jump into the interview.
Robb: Adam, how are you doing, man?
Adam: I’m going great. I’m going great. We’re in interesting times as we all are, so there’s a big adjustment period, and it’s been challenging, to say the least, but you’ve got to take everything with a smile and a little chuckle and try to make every day as special as you can.
Robb: You do, but a consistent kick to the groin again and again I think gets more and more difficult to smile and chuckle about.
Adam: You’re exactly right, and every day I’m like I still can’t believe we’re in a freaking pandemic. This is unbelievable. It’s really unbelievable and I try to stay away from the news because it’s such a, I don’t know, it’s such a buzz kill. Do you agree?
Robb: Well, I told Nicki, I was like, “Hey, we could check in on this once a week and we still know the world is going to shit, nothing will have changed, and so we don’t need to do it once an hour like we have been doing, once a week is fine. Okay, yep, the world is still ending. Cool. Go about your business.”
Adam: Right, I mean, it’s just-
Adam: It’s hard not to get into the weeds, but it’s just… I don’t know. It’s the strangest. Obviously, it’s the strangest thing we’ve ever had to go through as individuals, as a society, and how do we deal with it. It, boom, just kind of hit us in the face. It’s crazy, it’s crazy.
Robb: Well, this might be a good lead in here. A mutual acquaintance of ours, Dave Dooley, we were at his place in Michigan back in early 2019, and we were lamenting the implosion of the world and all that stuff, and a picture in his, I guess, Facebook timeline popped up about that and he shot it to me and he’s like, “Don’t you wish we could have that world back?” I was like “Yeah.”
Adam: Yeah, I mean, it’s crazy and I think the hardest part is really the unknown, like when is this going to end?
Adam: I’m a planner, so I like to know what’s up, and this unknown. Just when you go into stores, before the pandemic, I was in a grocery store every day talking about the brand and interacting with people, and now, you go into a store and it’s so organized and they tell you exactly where to stand.
Adam: It’s like come on. You don’t see people’s faces because they’re wearing a mask, so it’s different for sure. Hopefully, this will be over sooner rather than later and that’s what we’re hopeful for.
Robb: Absolutely, and I do want to circle back to this planning deal, because it’s really important. Nicki and I record intros to these separate, and so we’re going to get some of your background and everything and that, but how much of our genesis story can we tell right now in how I came to know you? How much of that story is-
Adam: You can tell-
Robb: Is out in the wild, or can we only do little teases? Can we just say that we both know Dave Dooley, or can we get a little bit deeper in the weeds on that?
Adam: Listen, I’m comfortable with getting in the weeds on it. I think it’s a wonderful story. It’s kind of like the cherry on top of the pie, if you will. I’m happy to discuss anything and everything, and I’m so grateful that that has been a chapter in all of our lives because it’s brought to me so many interesting people, so I’m happy to talk about it.
Robb: I think that’s amazing because it is, honestly, one of the only good things I can think about that’s come out of 2020, so Adam-
Adam: Well, I… Go ahead.
Robb: Give us some background on this. Tell this story.
Adam: I don’t even know where to begin. Let me start by-
Robb: People may by like, “What on God’s green earth are they talking about?” Once you hear this, then you’ll be like, “Oh, I get it.”, because you don’t even know where to start unpacking this thing.
Adam: Right. I was born three months premature and I was diagnosed with cerebral palsy. Was diagnosed at the age of two, and I got my first wheelchair at five. My parents are just these incredible bigger-than-life personalities, loving, just great, great people, just positive as could be, and just showing so much support for me and my brother. They wanted to have another child, and so since I was born three months premature, they took all the precautions and went to a fertility clinic and they said, “Barry, you’ve got some great swimmers here. There are a lot of people that could use your help. Would you be willing to donate your sperm to help some of these folks that are having trouble.”, and my dad’s always been a bigger-than-life personality, and we’ll get into his story in a minute, and he said, “Sure, I’m glad to help.”
Adam: Back then, there wasn’t a lot of research going on, so he went to the clinic and he helped a lot of people. About a year and a half ago, we got a registered letter, so anyway, we get this registered letter saying, “We’ve done some research on Ancestry.com and 23 and Me, and using a genealogist and we found out that I’m half Ashkenazi Jew.” Of course, that a discussion you never in a million years think that you would have, but it turns out that there is about a total of 35 siblings that have come into our family, so to speak. One of them is an acquaintance that you and I both know now very well, Dave Dooley. It’s been extremely special. At first, it was incredibly strange. Like I said, I never would anticipate having a discussion like that. I want to, and I know I’m going a little bit out of order here, my dad, unfortunately, passed away in 2011 with cancer, but growing up, we were always a big sports fan.
Adam: He was 6’4″-6’5″ and very athletic, and when you get a chance, you can Google him. As a fun piece of entertainment, because everybody wants to be a professional athlete, my dad was what they called a great sports imposter. He had broken into sporting events, not to hurt anybody or to harm anybody, just to see if he could be part of the actual sporting event. His first hoax, if you will, was in 1978, he was part of the NBA All-Star game, which was in Detroit, Michigan where we grew up. Fame and the attention got him on Johnny Carson and all these other TV shows and he had some real fun with it and was great at it, and everybody-
Robb: -Adam, flesh that out. He would dress out in the Detroit Pistons, or whatever, gear, and then go out on the floor warming up with them until people were like, “Who the hell is that guy?” He did this with baseball, baseball, hockey also? How many different things did he do with that?
Adam: He did probably dozens and dozens. He started with the NBA All-Star game in 1978, then it was a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader, then it was an NFL referee, then it was a San Diego Chicken, then he accepted an Emmy for Betty Thomas, who he thought wasn’t going to be there, but she happened to be there. He never wanted to hurt any, he never wanted to hurt anybody. It was all about doing it for fun and just to see if he could pull it off, because every childhood dream is to be a professional athlete, and he actually did it. It’s a really good story. I love to tell it because, obviously, he’s not here. Because of that, I get an opportunity to see what kind of guy he was and he was this bigger-than-life personality, loving, charismatic, funny, loyal as could be. Then we circle back to this 23 and Me, and being able to help so many families, it’s really, really a cool thing. We had an opportunity last summer to meet a lot of our siblings and it blew everyone away. We’re just so happy to have this little community.
Robb: I’m frankly jealous. I could see how it would be so shocking on the one hand, but then also so cool on the other. Just to give listeners a little bit more background, Dave Dooley, who’s a dear friend of mine, and your half sibling by these circumstances, he called me one day and he’s like, “Hey, are you guys sitting down?”, and we’re like, “Well, we can be.” We thought that I was going to relate to the business that he’s doing, Plan Gap, or something like that, and he was like, “So, last Christmas I got 23 and Me, and he proceeds to tell the story where he discovered that he’s half Ashkenazi Jew and nobody in his family is Jewish. He asked his mom, and interestingly, Dave Dooley’s father died when he was 12, so there’s this kind of inability to follow up on that side of the story, but he’s like, “Was dad religious or anything?”, and she’s like, “No. No, not at all.”
Robb: When David did his 23 and Me, he looked in that back panel where the relatives are, and for myself, I’ve got some second cousins, some third cousins, and when Dave looked in there, it said you have 35 half siblings. He was like, “What in God’ green earth is going on here?” It wasn’t too long after that, that a woman reached out to him and she said, “Hey, if you want to hear the background of your birth family”, or I guess your family of origin or something like that, “I would like to share it with you.” Dave connected with her and apparently Barry’s sperm was like super sperm and there was fertility clinic in the Detroit area that was the best most successful fertility clinic in the world apparently for this block of time. They were only supposed to inseminate five folks with Barry’s sperm, it was supposed to be geographically distributed, and we know currently of at least 35 folks that are a product of this process. There are some estimates that it may be as high as 80 or 90 because not everybody goes on 23 and Me, and all of that stuff.
Robb: It’s fascinating. Dave was picked as top 40 U der 40 in Business in Atlanta a couple of years ago, and the year before or the year after that, one of y’all’s siblings was picked as top 40 Under 40 in Business in Detroit. You are a serial entrepreneur. Apparently, tons of your siblings are these serial entrepreneurs. All of you have amazing hair, all of you are good looking. You guys hit pay dirt having Barry as a father whether you got to grow up with him or not apparently.
Adam: We’ve got to mention my brother and my sister.
Adam: I mean, my brother’s been in marketing and branding for 20 years, and he’s really at the crux of Keto Krisp, and my sister is a super mom of four kids and she’s in the real estate business. We’re definitely entrepreneurs and it’s super exciting. Again, our dad was just this bigger-than-life personality, so fun, and just so energetic, loved people. At first, it was like you’re taken aback by it and you don’t really know how to react. Going through all this, it’s been very, very exciting to get to know all these people, and we have our own little family now. It’s really a nice, incredible. I still can’t believe it.
Robb: This is a little family by Mormon standards, but by no other standards. I would call it a sizeable family, and in fact, it is the largest group of siblings known, right? It’s something to that affect, or apparently ESPN is going to do a follow-up story because ESPN had done some pieces on your father and then they just are, as anybody would be, fascinated by this whole story. It’s really incredible.
Robb: Now a quick word from today’s sponsor.
Nicki: This episode of Salty Talk is brought to you by Keto Krisp, quite literally one of the best tasting keto bars we’ve ever had.
Robb: No, it is the best tasting keto bar ever.
Nicki: I said quite literally. Yeah.
Robb: No, but it can’t be one of, it is the best taking one we’ve had.
Nicki: Okay. I’ve got you. Yeah.
Nicki: It’s true, and if you guys have ever had a Girl Scout thin mint cookie, the Keto Krisp mint bar is, it will take you back to the day when you last had a Girl Scout thin mint cookie, which for me, has been probably-
Robb: A long-ass time.
Nicki: A decade or more, but they’re great.
Robb: Is this a cry for help?
Nicki: No, I’m not crying.
Nicki: I have Keto Krisps, so there’s nothing to cry about now.
Robb: Touche, wife. Touche.
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Robb: Ooh, wow.
Nicki: There you go.
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Robb: They’re all great.
Nicki: The mint is my personal favorite.
Robb: Not to belabor this, again, in Keto/Paleo land, you have chicharrones, you have a few things that are kind of crunchy-
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: But mouth feel is one of these things that just, it’s different, it’s kind of lacking.
Nicki: Every other keto bar that we’ve tried, while the flavor might be on point, the texture is sort of-
Robb: The mouth feel.
Nicki: And the mouth feel, is sort of, where it’s all lacking.
Robb: Yeah, and these guys crush that.
Nicki: This one does not disappoint in that department. All right. Now back to the interview with Adam.
Adam: Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. It’s really cool. I’m just honored. We miss our dad every single day, and it’s like that favorite food that you eat when you see somebody that has those characteristics, you just want to continue to eat it and get as much out of it as you can. Every time I talk to a sibling, it’s just like you want to stare at their face and look at their eyes because we all have similar eyes. We’re very extroverted people and it’s just cool to see the evolution and how we’re all connected. It’s nice. We’re so thankful to have them, but at the same point, they’re extremely thankful and grateful. It’s incredible. It’s brought a whole… My dad’s up there laughing, I know, and just like, “Ha-ha, I’m always around.”
Robb: There is some irony, like The Great Imposter pulling off this deal is pretty incredible. It’s so cool.
Adam: Yeah. Yeah, it is cool and couldn’t be more excited to tell the story. It’s great, it’s great.
Robb: That’s awesome.
Robb: Awesome. Adam, you alluded a little bit when we first got going that you were born with cerebral palsy, you’ve largely relied on a wheelchair for the bulk of your life, but you’ve had great success within academia, entrepreneurship, and whatnot, but you ended up in kind of a dodgy healthy situation. I mean, anyone in this modern world of highly processed foods, and these things engineered to be addictive, are going to find this being challenging, I would imagine that being in a situation where mobility is kind of limited that this is going to be an even further kind of challenge. Talk a little bit about where you ended up in this health crisis and what you did about that.
Adam: Sure. Well, it started in 2017. I came out and I wasn’t feeling great about my weight and how I looked. As you said, it’s a little bit more challenging because you’re not moving around or burning as many calories as, say, somebody that can get out and run or whatever, but my life has never been about excuses. It’s always been about opportunity and being able to look at what I can do versus what I can’t do, and we’ll get into that later as we continue to talk and unpack this. I had an opportunity to work with a good friend who’s a trainer, so we had an opportunity to get into the pool and start doing some exercises. I started doing some things that I always was hopeful for, but never really knew if I could do it. I always knew that if given the right opportunity, I could really thrive. We started doing some great things with my legs and my arms, and I really started to feel great.
Adam: My friend’s name is Gabe and I said, “Gabe, how can we really dial this in? I’m 65 pounds overweight. What do we need to do to really turn this thing up a notch.” He’s like, “Adam, this is great, but we really need to change your diet.”, and I was like, “Okay.” I’ve always loved food and just ate whatever I wanted. It’s not like I was a junk food eater, but I would eat anything and everything. I liked restaurants, going out and being social. He’s like, “Okay, I want you to cut the carbs.”, but we did a slow, slow process. I started doing research on what I was putting into my body and taking out, and it was really aligned with a keto-based diet.
Adam: I started doing research on what the Keto diet was because, to be honest with you, I didn’t know what it was at all. I was just now this very green, but I noticed the weight was coming off and I started to feel very, very good, all the positive symptoms that the Keto diet has. It just kind of morphed and then I looked at what snacks or what things are available out there for me to consume on the go, because I’m not very domestic in terms of cooking so I need things that I can grab quickly and I really didn’t see much. That’s how it all got started. I wanted to try. I’m always willing to try, and every day get out of my comfort zone to improve, and I think that’s how we improve every day is trying to challenge yourself.
Robb: Well, I think that there are bars out there within the keto space. I think folks have put a good effort into it, but I’ve never had one as good as a Keto Krisp and we are friends. I consider you extended family via Dave Dooley, but, no joke, they are absolutely amazing, but how did you settle on that, because I could see going into a shake product. There seems like a million different roads that you could go into. How did you settle on a bar specifically, and then how did you back into the formulation for Keto Krisp?
Robb: Here’s the reason why I ask that. Keto has a lot of really good foods, but one of the things that’s really missing is something that’s kind of like snappy and has crunchy mouth feel. It’s like pork skins and that’s it, and your fingernails. Those are the only crunchy things that you’ve got in Keto land seemingly, or if you get some chicken skin really crispy or something like that. You guys backed into a bar that, not only does it taste good, but it has that snappy, crunchy mouth feel to it that’s just incredible. How did you decide on going for a bar? You don’t have a food science background or anything. How did you back into that because I’m just stunned. A lot of people have looked at this thing and nobody saw, to me, the problem hidden in plain sight, which was you can make things taste chocolatey, and this and that, but that mouth feel and that crunch, which is so much of what drives a lot of these other very desirable foods that we can snack on, you nailed that. What was that whole process?
Adam: Well, it was actually really fun. My brother, Nolan, has been in marketing and branding for 25 years, and worked and represented a lot of different bar companies. As I was losing the weight, and following the Keto diet, we would talk every day, of course, and he’s like, “Adam, why don’t we look at creating a snack bar? You’re always eating snacks and there’s a real opportunity to create.” We got in touch with a bar manufacturer and all sat down in a room and we’re like, “Hey, we know that there’s a huge demand for chocolate. People love chocolate. Nolan and I happen to be more vanilla type people, but we wanted something unique and different, so we’re like, “Why don’t we add a crisp?” We worked with the research and development team. They sent us various iterations. I can’t tell how many bars that we tried.
Robb: Probably regained 10 of the 60 pounds lost just trying them. Yeah.
Adam: Exactly. We would literally sit in our office and just sit around the room and try, and be like, “Eh, this tastes good. Let’s add a little bit of this, let’s add a little bit that.”, and it took about nine months. What we really wanted to focus on was great taste and texture, and we wanted to be unique because our whole goal was to disrupt the food category in a positive way. As you know, the bar category itself is completely, and so competitive, we wanted to stand out and be a little bit different. Back then, we were just testing things to see if there were legs to it. We knew we could build a great product, or we were hopeful that we could build a great product, and we knew that we had a great story and the ability to touch people in a positive way. Then just as we continued to do research, we kept refining our recipe and then we came across the almond butter, and we did the chocolate mint, and the chocolate raspberry, and those were our three skews.
Adam: Literally, I would go door to door, at every little local shop, and anybody that would listen, and say, “Guys, you’ve got to try my bars. I’m happy to demo. I’ve got a great story here on the Keto diet. I’ve lost 65 pounds from my wheelchair.” It just kind of snowballed and then we went to different trade shows. It was just constant working at our craft, so to speak. I wish I had a magic story, but that really is the magic of it. It was just trial and error basically.
Robb: No, it’s awesome, and it’s good to hear because we have lots of coaches, health coaches, entrepreneurs, healthcare providers that they frequently will look at a situation and they’re kind of wondering, I see a need here, and maybe there’s a product or a service, or something that I could plug into this need, but they oftentimes don’t know where to go, or how to vet out if that opportunity is really there. I think it’s interesting that you mention the bar space, you could argue, is like a red ocean. There’s a lot of people in that space, so you have to really be crystal clear about what it is that is your unique angle and what it is that you’re addressing. I think the formulation, it’s definitely totally on point for like a ketogenic lifestyle, but again, from that distinguishing element, the bars just taste like head and shoulders above anything else in the space. I get no compensation. I might shake you guys down for a box or two for Christmas, but that’s going to be about the extent of it.
Robb: I mean, we’ve been cereal entrepreneurs, and it’s always interesting when you think you see an opportunity and you think you see it in a way that nobody else is seeing it, and I don’t know if you experience this, but when we launched LMNT, this electrolyte beverage, I was like is nobody seeing this opportunity here? The way that we did it and the formulation, and the specific pain point, so I was just curious what your process was in looking at that to identify something that yeah, this is a legit opportunity. This isn’t just like wearing my underwear on the outside of my pants different, this is really looking at things differently and tackling it in a fundamentally different way.
Adam: I think a lot of brands, or bars if you will, they look at the functionality of it first, and we took it from a unique approach, well not unique, but just we wanted the thing to taste fricking great.
Adam: That was our number one goal is to have it taste great. Number two, obviously, it’s got to have the keto macros, which is good, but if we couldn’t align on how great the taste was, we weren’t going to do it period, end of story, game over. Thankfully, like we talked about earlier, we tried so many different bars, but the main focus for us, it has to taste great. It’s as simple as that. Everybody’s taste palate is different. I don’t know, we just had fun. I’ve always been a foodie, that’s why I was fat because I ate everything. To have an opportunity to try and come up with different ingredient labels and work with the food manufacturers, it was a lot of fun, but the main focus really was it’s got to taste great, guys, and that’s it. Just taste is our main focus, and just like you s-
Robb: Well, you know-
Adam: Go ahead.
Robb: No, no. It’s funny, because of my chemistry background and being kind of a geek, I almost guarantee you I would have looked at it from the functionality first, and I would have been wrapped around the axle of keto ratios and whatnot, and I suspect that that would have ended up creating this constraint on the flavor profile and the mouth feel and all that, which is what you guys were able to nail because you started from the premise this has got to taste awesome first.
Adam: Right, and I think, with all due respect, we see, whether you’re keto or not, people are wanting low-carb, low-sugar options and the Keto Krisp bar checks a lot of the boxes, even for the hardcore keto folks. They may look at the macros and say, well, it may be a little high in this. It may be a little bit high in that, but all in all, it checks all the boxes. We’ve seen that in the keto space that customers see the success of keto and how it works, and there’s more literature on the success of the diet, so we feel really good about where we’re at and just continuing to disrupt the food category-
Adam: In a positive way.
Robb: That’s awesome. Adam, I’m curious, the ketogenic diet was developed initially for epilepsy, mainly for children with epilepsy and it proved to be just remarkably beneficial, and it’s gone on to have all kinds of research benefits in a host of different areas. If it’s shown, if it’s really been beneficial in kind of one area, it’s been with neurological situations. We’ve worked with people with traumatic brain injuries and different situations like that. Have you noticed any change in your general functionality given that you were born with cerebral palsy? Have you seen any type of change with that, because there’s studies that suggest that a ketogenic diet improves neuroplasticity, it improves brain derived neurotropic factor. Have you noticed any difference, or just generally that you feel better, you’re 60 pounds lighter and you just feel great from that?
Adam: I think it’s a combination of both. I think I feel great because of the weight loss. I feel great because of the neurological. You just feel better. I just feel like a lot more energy now. With COVID, it’s a little bit different because the mindset is… I noticed if definitely in the beginning for sure.
Adam: Yes, to answer your question, I did notice it right off the bat. I was so excited because I never had been able to lose weight before. I tried Weight Watchers and other diets and nothing really worked. This started to work and I was like, “Oh, my god. I can actually”… And again, this is stuff that I would think to myself, “Wow, this is great. I actually did it.” I think that helps the confidence. Obviously, the food that we’re putting into our body, so I definitely think that there’s a correlation between that, and studies show that your brain, your function better. You could talk more about the science than I can.
Robb: Yeah, but I was just really curious because, I mean, this was a situation that you’re born with, and so now we’ve had multiple decades of just kind of living, and so I was just curious. You’ve kind of experienced some benefits even with that type of duration, you know?
Adam: Yeah, I could definitely tell a difference. I was fired up. I had so much energy. I was so excited. I’ve always been that way, though, with a lot of energy and a lot of excitement, and just let’s go, let’s have fun, let’s get out there and do it. I could definitely feel a difference.
Robb: That’s awesome. That’s very, very interesting. What else, and I know COVID has basically taken a leak down the back of all of our necks, and over the last year limiting options and whatnot, but what else are you doing on that just generally healthy lifestyle side of things, and I mean it could be from exercise, meditation, getting sun on your skin. What’s your whole package look like that you’re doing to be the best you?
Adam: Well, I think that it start with exercise for me number one, and I try to either get into the pool every day or lift some weights. Just try certain things. Certainly get outside, just whatever you can to be active. My brother has always been a fitness enthusiast, so he’s always exercising, and I’m always looking at certain activities to do, whether it be even playing catch with a ball or playing tennis. I picked up tennis almost 10 years ago, and it was great. I’m always an athletic mind, and have an outlet to do, it’s been great for me, and the pool has been great because you’re not taxing the body too much, but you’re still getting that cardio that’s so important.
Adam: I think it’s really critical to have some sort of exercise every day.
Robb: Do you try to get outside, get the sun on your skin, that whole circadian entrainment deal? How important is that for you?
Adam: Extremely important. I love the sun. I grew up in Michigan where it’s cold and cloudy every day. Before I moved to California, I lived 22 years in Arizona, and anybody that’s familiar with that, it’s like I would wake up every day and, oh, my god, it’s another sunny day-
Robb: Another day and sunny.
Adam: I never would take it for granted. I love the sun, so vitamin D is great. I think that’s a big part of the whole feeling good.
Robb: That’s awesome.
Adam: For sure, yeah.
Robb: Awesome. Adam, for most people just starting a company like what you’ve done with Keto Krisp would be a pretty big deal. It would be like the full-time, all-consuming gig, but pretty quickly into this process you had a sense that you needed to do more than that, and you’re developing a direction with this Can Do movement. Can you talk about that? I’m getting more and more interested in process, like what brought you to developing that and how was the genesis of the idea, and what exactly is it?
Adam: Well, Can Do has always been a big part of my life. My parents, my family, my brother, my sister, we’ve always been raised on let’s focus on what we can do, not we can’t do. It’s always been in the back of my mind. People have always been so great to me and been such a great cheerleader for me, and I love connecting with people. That’s really my passion. I’m always so grateful that nobody stuck me in the corner. They always said, “This guy is special, he’s got something. I don’t know what it is, but he’s got something.” I know that the keto community is such a strong community, and everybody has their own unique specific journey, and today we want to be able to connect with people and inspire them.
Adam: It’s more than just a bar. It’s a way of life. Just being there to support, to do instead of dream. Just that attitude of let’s do it, we can do anything we want if we set our mind to it and we have a positive attitude. Showing gratitude every day. I love the word gratitude because it’s go the word great and attitude in it. I think that that is contagious, and positivity is a beautiful thing, and to have fun and to enjoy life.
Adam: The Can Do is a platform really to allow people to share their stories and inspire people and to be together, to build this community of can doers, because we’re all can doers. You’ve been a can doer, your wife, Nicki, has been can-doer. Our buddy, Dave Dooley, he’s a can-doer. It’s fun. Now people want to feel that connection to a brand and we really, to me, customers are everything. Taking the time. They have so many bars to choose from. I’m so thankful for them, and without them we wouldn’t have a company, so I want to highlight people’s stories. I want to be their cheerleader. That’s my favorite thing to do. Growing up, I always cheered for everyone because I’m excited. I want people to do well. It’s not a competition, it’s a togetherness thing, and I’m all about that, and I want to support everybody’s journey uniquely and be there for them.
Adam: The Can Do is bringing people together and doing things together, and supporting whatever it is you want to do, whether it’s diet, whether it’s being a better person. It’s all about okay, let’s do it. Can Do. We can do anything we set our mind to. Our mind is the strongest part of our body, and if you believe, we believe. Not every day is going to be a great day, but if you have five to six days that are pretty good, or if you can take that one thing away, then you’re doing okay.
Robb: Right, right. I just can’t think of a time in history that this idea of can do isn’t more important. I have two kids, eight and six years old, and when I look at some of the sentiment in the world and lots of people have been hurt, lots of people have been mistreated, lots of people get dealt a shitty hand, but I sense this sentiment that it’s like well, that’s the hand you’ve been dealt and it’s somebody else’s fault, and you just need to wallow in that and I don’t see it helping people. I don’t see it empowering people, and I honestly could see it unraveling the fabric of our society. I worked in a lab with a doctor who escaped out of Yugoslavia when their civil war happened, and he had horror stories and it all became this identity politics about the tiny differences from one person to another that led this, otherwise pretty homogenous, people to murder one another and I legitimately fear that we are on a track like that.
Robb: This ides of can do that it’s like hey, if you had problems, if you had difficulties, tell us about it and let us help you. Then also, you’ve got to get in and do everything you can to make things right within the power you have and we, the rest of us, we’ll help where we can, too, and we can all move this forward. I think it’s just incredibly important message. I really take my hat off to you.
Adam: I’m really excited because I never in my life said woe is me because that’s just a waste of time. I mean, you can go down a dark hole if you think like that, and it’s very common to think like that, especially nowadays when we’re in an unprecedented time and more isolation, but you just think about, again, the memories and the positives. I’m so lucky to be able to sit up here and to be able to talk to you. Cerebral palsy effects so many people in so many different ways. What if I didn’t have the ability to speak or to have an opinion? I’m just so thankful for that, every little thing. I know it’s like cliché, but really I remember as a kid just being so excited to be able to watch all my friends play and being able to support them. I don’t know. My parents were always just so great in instilling that can-do attitude that it’s really exciting. It keeps me up at night in a positive way, and I can’t wait for more stories to be told and to keep inspiring people because that’s really what it’s all about.
Robb: Adam, how are you going to roll that platform out? Should we keep our eyes open for a podcast around this, or how are you looking at kind of expanding that, and also, how can our community help you with that? What can we do to help?
Adam: Well, I think, we were working on a lot of different strategies, certainly a podcast strategy is one. Right now what we’re doing is we’re highlighting certain customers of Keto Krisp and everybody’s got a unique story from I’ve tried many diets and they haven’t worked to I’ve used Keto Krisp, or I’ve used the Keto diet and it’s helped create life. We’ve had a few guests on that said, because I was overweight I wasn’t able to get pregnant-
Robb: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: I lost weight on the Keto diet and it helped me give life. What better story is that? I mean, so we’re just looking at different platforms. I just want people to tell their story however they feel most comfortable, whether it be on a podcast, whether it be on our website. We have a mutual friend, Kyle Maynard, who’s got the most amazing story you’ve ever heard in your life. I mean, if you want to talk about Kyle, I mean, he’s the epitome of a can doer, so we want to reach out to those folks and highlight their stories. They don’t have to be a Nike athlete, per se, it can be just anybody. We just want to share the story and inspire people to be the best version of themself.
Robb: That’s awesome. It’s-
Adam: -I’m open to your suggestions because you’ve done this time and time again and I would love to hear your thoughts on the best way to do this as we unpack this can-do strategy.
Robb: I think a podcast would be great, and when we get to start doing some stuff in real life again, I think getting some collaborative things between Can Do, Keto Krisp, Healthy Rebellion, LMNT, lots of other friends in the keto and ancestral health space, maybe we can meet up at the Metabolic Health Summit when that thing is up and going again. They usually do that in Long Beach, so that would be an easy jaunt for you, and they’re just amazing people there. I think that combination of in person because we’ve got to, fuck man, we’ve got to have real people in our lives. Virtual is good, but giving you a hug is better, so we’ve got to get that back. Then telling these stories of success, and telling the stories of struggle. People need to know that this shit isn’t easy. Your point about it could be five good days and a couple of not great days, it could be five days of absolute shit sandwich but you hang onto the one or two that are pretty good and just motoring forward.
Adam: You know what? That’s okay. People have got to get those stories out.
Adam: They’ve got to get those frustrations out and we want to be the platform. Number one, I want it to be comfortable because you thrive when you’re comfortable and you’re confident. Whatever that platform is for somebody, I want to give somebody a hug, I want to give somebody a high five, that’s why it’s been so ass backwards for me when it comes to COVID because I can’t do any of that.
Robb: Right, right.
Adam: I mean it’s difficult. I don’t like to say can’t. I mean, I think, again, I am so grateful for the opportunity. The bar has given us such a great platform for me to reach so many people, and this isn’t about me, it’s about highlighting other people and getting them excited because they really are the ones that drive me every day, you know?
Robb: I get it. I get it. I work from home so some days it’s kind of like is what I’m doing, does it matter? I think my staff pays attention to when I start spiraling down and then they’ll ping me an email, but it’s like, hey man, just wanted to let you know. We get a lot of the fertility stuff. Went through all the IVF stuff, nothing worked, thought that we weren’t going to have kids. Both my wife and I went Keto, Paleo, whatever and now we have two kids, or whatever. It’s like, okay, that’s why we do this.
Adam: It’s awesome.
Robb: It’s amazing. It is just amazing.
Adam: It’s just like that’s what life is all about.
Adam: That, to me, gets me so excited. I’m a huge customer service, I handle all the emails for Keto Krisp, and we don’t get a lot yet, we’re growing. I get maybe five, six a day of emails. Yesterday I picked up the phone and called a customer because she had a question about her order. It’s just so nice to talk to them. She was telling me how much she appreciated Keto Krisp, and I was telling her how much I appreciated her, and her weight loss journey, and then ours, it’s just a great way to connect, and especially in this time of need where everybody needs a virtual hug and you’re not able to do it. It’s just a nice feeling. That really excites me about the can-do spirit, it’s just being able to champion people’s stories.
Robb: Absolutely. Yeah. I get that you’re making the point that you want this to be about everybody else, but I’ll remind you, you are the leader of it and it’s critical that you get your story out there and you work as the grounding rod for this stuff. If you’re looking for some advice long term, I’ve constantly tried to figure out where I could exit stage left and let somebody else plug into here, what I hear again and again is that my story and the perspective that I have is still really, really valuable, so I wouldn’t try to exit the stage too soon, you’re going to be critical to turning this thing into a global entity that improves the lives of millions and millions of people.
Adam: What I mean by that, and thank you for the compliment, I would never want to exit stage left, but I want to be there to support anybody and everybody.
Adam: Again, when I say I want to be the number one cheerleader, that’s what I’m good at-
Adam: Is getting people excited. I’m not going anywhere. I’m so excited, never been more excited about the opportunity. I get a chance to talk to somebody like yourself who’s extremely knowledgeable in this space, and just have so much to offer, and the possibilities are endless and I’m, again, just honored to have the platform to meet so many cool people.
Robb: Well, I can’t wait to meet you in real life and that has to be-
Adam: When is that going to be?
Robb: A great day. If you want to come to Texas, we could do it now. In California, I don’t know if you can even go for a stroll right now, so I’m not totally sure.
Adam: Yeah. What’s it like over there in Texas?
Robb: It depends on where you are. We’re in the hill country and the population density is comparatively low, and people are careful. They’re not being idiots. Our hospitals are not overwhelmed, folks are careful. I think that the people who are pretty healthy, and particularly the folks that they don’t have an option for virtual work. There’s a lot of farmers and ranchers and people that work in the oil industry and stuff like that, they have to be on site and so it’s very different in some place, like New Braunfels, where it’s kind of a smaller town, and as you get closer and closer to the larger cities, you get much more lockdown; the small businesses are shuttered, there’s a lot more fear. It really depends exactly where you are in Texas. The more rural areas, I would say, are more laid back, but I don’t want to portray that as people being flippant about it. It’s just that I think that the risk profile is different. The urbanization and population density is big factor in this story.
Adam: For sure.
Adam: What’s incredible to me is how quickly the virus spreads, you know?
Adam: It’s like it’s a dream and you’re waking up and, hopefully, one day it’ll go away. I think we’re getting closer though.
Robb: I think so. I remember back in March saying, “I just want to be on a Valium bender for like three weeks and then come to and everything will be done.”, and that would not have been remotely long enough.
Adam: Right. Remember when they said, eh, this thing will be over by June, and then June came around, and then maybe by the wintertime, so who knows? It’s crazy. It’s crazy, but… Go ahead.
Robb: Well, it’s interesting. Two things again, like giving a hat tip to what you are doing in this age of COVID, we know two things pretty clearly; age is an independent risk factor and metabolic health is an independent risk factor. We can’t really do anything about our age, but every single one of us can do something to improve our metabolic health, and independent of age, that seems to be a really massive deal. There have been a few studies done where people, even very short term, a matter of like four or five days they went on a lower carb diet, a reduced glycemic load, and it wasn’t even a ketogenic diet, it was just a whole food based diet and with those improved blood sugar numbers, people are navigating COVID much better. They don’t get sick or they don’t get nearly as sick, they don’t end up in the hospital, they don’t get in the intensive care unit. All of the worst stuff ends up improving with improved metabolic health, so the fact that you’re out there championing the ketogenic diet and Keto Krisp and everything I think is amazing.
Robb: Then on the sociological side and the psychological side, people are hurting and legitimately so, and having this message of can do, that we will get through this, we’ll get through it together, and if someone needs help, by God, ask for it, and we’ll do what we can to help. I think that that two-pronged messaging that you have going on it is what we need right now for sure, so I can’t personally say thank you enough for what you’re doing. It’s incredible.
Adam: Well, I’m just excited to be able to help any way that I can. That’s been my mantra; how can I help, what can we do. I understand your going through, everybody’s got a unique story, and nobody’s alone in this. We’re all in it together. I’m just thankful to be… Hopefully, I can help one or two people and just, again, do whatever I can. I’m excited to just get through this and-
Adam: Get back to some sort of normalcy.
Adam: It’s exciting for sure, and I’m just so thankful for the opportunity.
Robb: Awesome, awesome. Well, Adam, Nicki and I are going to wrap this thing up with some show notes. We’ll add links to everything, Keto Krisp, everything else, but where can folks track you down on the interwebs and learn more about both Keto Krisp and Can Do?
Adam: Sure, they can certainly go on our website, ketokrisp.com. We will be making some slight changes to incorporate Can Do. Somewhere you’ll see that down the road in the next couple of weeks as we talk about it. You can certainly visit us on Instagram; Keto Krisp is the handle there. They’re available on Amazon. You can find myself on Instagram, Adam Bremen. Just Google it. You can call me, I’ll give you my email address, [email protected] I love hearing from customers. It gets me so excited. I’m always around. I love to be involved and I really appreciate hearing from everyone.
Robb: Awesome, awesome. Well, Adam, we’ll get all that stuff in the show notes and, again, can’t wait to meet you in real life. The first round of NorCal margaritas will be on me when we get to hang out.
Adam: You’ve got it, my man. I really, really thank you and what’s you’ve done throughout the years is incredible, it’s inspiring, it’s empowering. I’m so happy through this introduction with Dave Dooley, and your entire family has been amazing and I really, really appreciate it, and look forward to doing many, many things. I can’t thank you enough for your time and your expertise. It’s just been great. I look forward to, like I said, many great things.
Robb: Well, we’re only getting going, so that’s the really exciting thing.
Adam: Yes, yes.
Robb: Awesome, Adam. Take care. We’ll talk to you soon.
Adam: You got it. Okay.
Nicki: Okay hubs, that was a goody.
Nicki: That was a good one to end 2020 on.
Robb: It is, it is. It is a new hope indeed.
Nicki: This is the way.
Robb: That, too. Yes, this is the way, is-
Nicki: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Robb: You can fucking do it, and-
Robb: Yeah, it’s time to push back more and more against this dehumanizing process of undermining people’s agency. I am just goddam done with it, and hopefully everybody else is, too. This doesn’t mean that you are a dick to anyone about anything-
Robb: But we meet each other where we are and if we-
Nicki: If somebody is ready to change, and that’s a key component of it, and if they’re not, then it’s really, really hard to help them-
Nicki: But if they are ready, then there should be means of helping, and there are-
Robb: If there’s to be some-
Nicki: And that shouldn’t be looked down upon or derided, or ridiculed, or condemned. If somebody wants help, help them find help, or help them.
Robb: Even if they’re not sure if they want help yet, convincing them that the process of improving whatever their situation is, is somehow pathological, that is some of the greatest evil I can conceive of, and it time to push back against that, and Adam is doing it and the Can Do movement, I mean, let’s face facts, he is a “disabled man” so he is able to speak of this topic from a somewhat insulated spot, although I’m sure people will find some way to assail him anyway, but this is kind of what it is. He is the person who can spearhead this thing, so we’re just honored to be friends with him and the guy is absolutely a beacon of hope and joy in a world of people that are not using their goddam heads to think, and definitely not using their hearts in a way that is constructive. I know that there’s a lot of good intention out there, but as a reminder, the path to hell is paved on good intentions.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: Sometimes like raising kids and whatnot, you see them fall or you see them struggle and you just want to swoop in and make everything all right, and sometimes you’ve got to just let them struggle through the process because that is the thing that makes them strong enough to survive and go on and do everything else that they’re going to face.
Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robb: It is hard as a parent, and it’s probably hard sometimes as friends or as a society to let people struggle, but it is that struggle that is the defining feature of a life worth living. If we wantonly steal that from people, again, I think that that is one of the most evil things that could be perpetuated on people, and we’ll probably be fucking canceled for this, but goddam it, I’m just like fine, bring it, I’m done. Or not, maybe we start turning this stuff around.
Nicki: Maybe. Yep. Thanks everyone. Be sure to check out our show sponsor, Keto Krisp. Go to ketokrisp.com, that’s K-E-T-O-K-R-I-S-P.come, and get 25% off your first order with the code KKpodcast25. We wish you all a very, very Merry Christmas, if you celebrate Christmas, a happy holiday, and a very happy new year, and we will be back on January 1st with another episode of our Q and A.
Robb: Bye everybody. Take care.
Nicki: Bye everyone.
Nicki: As always, Salty Talk episodes are brought to you by Drink LMNT, the only electrolyte drink mix that’s salty enough to make a difference in how you look, feel, and perform. Get salty at drinkLMNT.com, that’s drinkL-M-N-T.com.