So…I’ve had a lot of folks ask me for my thoughts on the Netflix documentary film “What The Health.” I’ll be honest, I drug my feet in doing this as these postmortems tend to be fairly painful, but the requests for some commentary has reached a bit of a fever pitch, so, here it is, with my usual preambles and caveats.
Some of my hesitation in digging into this is also that I’m just not sure if it matters. People generally make their decisions early and are seldom swayed by any future information. But, like that uplifting story about the person who throws starfish back into the ocean, if it matters to you, helps even a few people make better sense of all this, then it was likely worth it. Another not insignificant slice of my hesitation is that this is going to get me on the radar of the cranky (read crazy) vegan folks. One of the people featured in the movie did prison time for harassment and was the founder of an animal rights group that is known to have done everything from physical intimidation of people they disagree with, to firebombing houses of employees of the same.
Charming folks.
Not sure if you’ve noticed, but people are fucking crazy these days, so again, stoking the ire of the religiously militant vegans is not really an appealing thing to do. No one reading or commenting on this will have the degree of scrutiny and crosshairs (real or metaphorical) brought to bare on them that I will. I don’t want a big outpouring of emotion about this but I would appreciate some understanding that “you” get to read this, “I” get to deal with the aftermath of writing it.
I started this off attempting to be as professional as I could be, similar to this piece that I did.
In that piece I managed to largely keep it together until near the end of the presentation when I felt like the whole thing was a sham and I was just being messed with. With “What The Health” I did not make it very far before I came metaphorically unstitched and my professionalism fled me. I apologize in advance for that, this review would likely be taken more seriously if I’d managed to maintain a more clinical tone…but yea, even though I strive to have the emotional complexity of a Vulcan, I too can get squirrley at times. Some of the claims and tactics employed in the movie are just…well, I’ll let you decide what they are.
What I did-My Process man
I watched the movie and provided a time index for the various portions that I felt were particularly important to comment on. The time refers to the duration of the movie remaining. There are some things that I know I missed as there are sections of the movie in which claims are made in a rapid fire fashion and it would have made this already long piece literally 5x longer. Despite this I think you will notice that a lot IS covered and the way the “facts” are handled is remarkable. In some cases I just provide a name and time index, in other cases I dig into quite a lot of detail.
I introduce people as they appear and upon their first appearance I will generally mention a bit about their background and I also go out of my way to mention if they are vegan or not. Almost NO ONE featured in this film is not vegan. There is zero attempt to seek out contradictory views, this is a monochrome of political, nutritional and ecological ideology. That said, the film is remarkably well done and the folks producing it have spent a lot of time thinking about how to address the common counterpoints and concerns raised around the material they present. Without further ado, here is my review of “What The Health.”
First Spark Media– A film company focusing on activist related projects. Most of the material they have produced to date is vegan/animal liberation in nature.
1:31:23 Dr. Robert Ratner American Diabetes Assoc- Provides a long list of diabetes related problems. Asked what the relationship is between diet and diabetes. Response “I’m not going to get into that.” This section pops up later in the film.
Executive Producer: Joaquin Phoenix- Vegan, Filmmaker, Actor, Activist.
Directors Kip Andersen, Keegan Kuhn- Kip and Keegan produced an earlier film “Cowspiracy” which apparently had some input/backing from Leonardo DiCaprio. Both Kip and Keegan are Vegan.
1:30:06 Kip relates a story of his “previous hypochondriac past” Made a point that he diligently followed all the major health org’s recs.
1:29:33 Kip shares ABC news report: “New information, meat causes cancer”
Soundbite: “Processed meat is clearly linked to an increase in cancer”. No mention of absolute vs relative risk. “Just as dangerous as smoking cigarettes.” 1:29:22 This all made the circuit a few years ago and was pretty soundly debunked. The takeaway from the “research” was that if one consumes processed meats, everyday, for one’s whole life, the absolute risk for developing say, colon cancer was estimated to be 6%. The background risk for colon cancer is 5%. Now, I talk about the massive limitations of the type of study mentioned here a bit later (not sure we can trust ANY element of these types of studies), but what biassed researchers, and the media do is then look at the change in relative risk. The difference between 5 and 6 percent is clearly 1 percent. But 1 is 20% of 5. So, this get’s reported as a “20% increase in cancer risk.” One need not be a statistician to see how shady this type of information handling is. The next photo provides a concise breakdown of relative vs. absolute risk. I do not know who put this together originally, but it’s outstanding.
1:28:47 Processed meats a Group 1 Carcinogen, just like cigarettes and Plutonium!! They then shift to some great imagery of moms cooking breakfasts of scrambled cigarettes for the kids. YUM! I get into the details of the carcinogen claims later.
1:26:30 Kip is in route to talk to an American Cancer Society Rep. When the rep understands the interview will be about diet and cancer, she cancels the interview.
1:26:00 Dr. Allan GoldHamer (Vegan), Founder TrueNorth Health Clinic-Relates statistic on poor health.
1:25:47 Dr. Joel Kahn (Vegan), Kahn Center for Cardiac Longevity relates a story of poor national health, largely lifestyle related and preventable. Yep.
1:25:32 Dr. Michael Greger (Vegan) Runs nutritionfacts.org I’m not sure if there has ever been a less accurate URL vs site content in the history of the interwebz.
1:25:22 Dr. Milton Mills-Vegan
1:25:12 Dr. Michelle McMacken-Vegan- contends dietary choices trumps smoking for health. Maybe a stretch, but not too preposterous when we consider the Kitavans who smoke like chimneys, eat well and appear to suffer little if any ill effects.
1:23:54 Kip makes the point that the government blames lack of exercise and “sugary foods.” No source cited, is this really the message? The government has certainly pushed the exercise as medicine idea, in which one should not need to worry AT ALL about the food one consumes, one need only exercise more. https://therussells.crossfit.com/2016/03/24/inside-the-acsms-exercise-is-medicine/ This is a remarkable bit of cherry-picking and or telling a half truth which is a common theme throughout the movie. At a point later, it is stated that a focus on sugar has steered the story away from the real baddies, meat and animal fat. So, while the ACSM colludes to ban CrossFit (if this is news to you, read the aforementioned link) and make it largely illegal to say that diet matters (at all), we just need to exercise more, the real focus (According to Kip) is that the blame should have “always” been on meat and animal fat.
1:23:44 Dr. Neal Barnard PCRM-Vegan, “Diabetes Expert” Diabetes is not caused by high-carb diet…with an exasperated lilt. Caused by accumulation of fat in the blood, like typical meat based diet” Insulin resistance is a build-up of fat, yes…but is that the whole story? And how best to fix this? Time and again low carb diets have proven superior in this regard. Many, many people have unpacked the insulin resistance story in remarkable detail elsewhere, so I’m not going to devote a ton of space to that here. I will mention that the low carb approach has proven to be incredibly powerful in reversing insulin resistance and the related co-morbidities. BUT…despite consistent positive results on low carb approaches like Atkins, there has still been a lot of handwringing about “all that fat and animal products.” The solution? EcoAtkins. This is an attempt to eat low carb, but with largely vegan foods. If this is how someone wants to roll, that’s fine, but when studied against the original Atkins plan it was no better, and in some ways worse with regards to improving various biomarkers. This really IS an inconvenient truth, as the film completely ignores the low carb approach, even when built from “plant based” sources. Let me say that again, in a different way: Low carb diets have consistently proven to reverse insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes better than high-carb, low fat approaches. There IS a “plant base” low carb approach which works well…this gets no airplay.
1:23:00 Dr. Garth Davis- Bariatric surgeon, vegan, author of Proteinaholic. Garth is a genuinely nice guy, and although a staunch vegan, he and I have had some decent interactions over the years. That said, Garth is being presented as an expert, but the critiques on his work, specifically his book, are pretty severe. Denise Minger’s thoughts on his book.
Garth’s reply…which spends the opening salvo largely trying to discredit Denise due to “lack of credential” (that’s what we generally call a Straw Man attack) while also playing the game of somehow acknowledging her brilliance?? It’s odd. Really odd. If you notice my interaction with people I have NEVER raised the question of “qualifications.” Does the person know the material, yes or no? In this day where there is easy access to any topic, I am not only un-impressed by the Appeal To Authority, I get immediately suspicious. This is a way of shutting down the heretics without ever addressing their message or content.
1:21:55 Dr. Neal Barnard- Talks about a cookie…sugar lures you in, but it’s the fat that “gets you.” Reasonably truthful, but really misses the point. Hyperpalatable foods are the issue. It’s the flavor combos at issue. No one would be fired up to eat sugar, flour, or butter in plain forms. Ok, I could nosh on a stick of butter, but mix those ingredients into a cookie? That’s pretty damn tasty. Tasty to a point there is no “off switch.” This is a remarkably unsophisticated handling of what is a highly complex process, the neuroregulation of appetite.
1:21:29 Dr. Garth Davis – “Sugar is not great, low in nutrients, but it “does not cause inflammation, can be stored as glycogen.” “The focus on sugar has taken the focus off meat, dairy, eggs, pork, turkey, chicken…” I’m not even sure how to comment on this as the science is not remotely supportive of his dismissal of sugar: Now, that is looking specifically at fructose, but table sugar is 50% fructose.
1:20:52 Related this paper: Unprocessed red and processed Meats and risk of coronary artery disease and type 2 diabetes—An updated review
From the abstract: “In meta-analyses of prospective cohorts, higher risk of CHD is seen with processed meat consumption (RR per 50 g: 1.42, 95 %CI = 1.07-1.89), but a smaller increase or no risk is seen with unprocessed meat consumption. Differences in sodium content (~400 % higher in processed meat) appear to account for about two-thirds of this risk difference. In similar analyses, both unprocessed red and processed meat consumption are associated with incident diabetes, with higher risk per g of processed (RR per 50 g: 1.51, 95 %CI = 1.25-1.83) versus unprocessed (RR per 100 g: 1.19, 95 % CI = 1.04-1.37) meats.”
Let’s unpack that:
1-Prospective cohort studies were the sole source of information. What the heck is that? From our good friend Wikipedia: “A prospective cohort study is a longitudinal cohort study that follows over time a group of similar individuals (cohorts) who differ with respect to certain factors under study, to determine how these factors affect rates of a certain outcome.“
Here is a short but interesting paper that looks at the limitations of cohort studies, in this case looking at OPIUM USERS and the risk of death. Arguably, opium use and risk of death is a much simpler story to unpack relative to complex dietary interactions…I don’t think anyone would argue that point. Despite this, the study is incredibly shaky due to:
Recall bias. Did people actually report what really happened (opium consumption in this case, meat consumption in the context of the papers being cited by What The Health). Recall bias is such an issue many people have called for the abolishment of this type of stuff entirely. http://www.ejcancer.com/article/S0959-8049(06)00846-X/abstract This due in no small part to the fact one cannot assign causation, just correlation, but correlation with perhaps more noise than signal. What I mean by that is that the data being looked at may be so fraught with error (noise) that any attempt at gain insight (signal) is literally impossible. The main study cited in the film is from a food frequency questionnaire, which again, have been found to be so fraught with error that many are calling for their abandonment.
Now, it might be worth asking, why are these folks relying on a dodgy methodology (A prospective cohort study, built entirely from a food frequency questionnaire). Here is an interesting snippet from the Red meat/processed meat paper: “ Similar to most other lifestyle risk factors (e.g., smoking, physical activity, obesity, consumption of salt, dietary cholesterol, fruits, vegetables, nuts, whole grains), the effects of meat consumption on cardiometabolic endpoints have not, to our knowledge, been investigated in any RCTs.”
Despite a complete lack of GOLD STANDARD testing (Randomized, Controlled Trials–RCT’s), public policy, bad documentaries and a never ending slew of media pieces are built from studies which are known, from the outset, to be incapable of showing causation. I cannot emphasize this enough, as the film presents this material as “proof” in the same way that a physicist would describe the properties of gravity.
2- Nearly 2/3 of the “risk” associated with processed meats is ascribed to the sodium content. There is SOME mechanistic plausibility here, particularly in the case of CVD, as a hyperinsulinemic individual tends to disproportionately retain sodium, and a high sodium intake MIGHT exacerbate this. But interestingly, trying to lower sodium intake in these folks also tends to do almost nothing, as the problem is upstream and due primarily to insulin. Here is a great line from the abstract of that paper: “Similar to other areas in prevention, the controversy is likely to remain unresolved until large-scale definitive randomized controlled trials are conducted to determine the effect of low sodium intake (compared to moderate intake) on CVD incidence.” Seems to be a theme emerging here…Huge amounts of money and an iron-clad public healthy policy is being promulgated by “research” that is incapable of addressing causation, and that may have more signal than noise. Finally, the whole discussion of sodium is likely flawed, again from poor mechanistic understandings. I’ll be talking to the author of The Salt Fix in a future episode of the podcast, but this story looks remarkably like that we have seen for fat, animal products etc.
3-Based on the paper and the arguably flawed data, there appears to be little if any association between unprocessed meat intake and CVD, and only a modest relationship between unprocessed meat intake and type 2 diabetes. Now, I’m being pretty generous even mentioning this point as the whole paper, the whole investigative process, is built on “data” that as I said previously, likely has more error than signal. (Sorry to be redundant, but if you come away with ANYTHING I hope it’s an understanding of what is being claimed vs what this material can actually support.)
An important point to take away from all this is the What The Health documentary is building a story first that processed meat is bad (which is highly debatable, and the notion it’s “as bad as cigarettes is just preposterous). That is a monumental claim and the facts behind this claim fall flat. Which should then make one suspicious about ANY of the information shared by folks promulgating information like this. I’m working on a post to follow this that will look at the epidemiology of smoking and compare/contrast that with what happens in “nutritional science.”
1:17:41 Michael Greger Nutritionfact.org Claims “dead meat bacteria toxins” immediately damage the endothelial lining of the circulatory system. There is no doubt endotoxemia is a huge issue, an overlooked issue. But Dr. Gregor is unique in assigning this only to animal products. There is abundant literature showing processed foods, with added processed oils increase endotoxemia (which can worsen insulin resistance and CVD risk) but if you ask Dr. Gregor and his ilk for any research showing whole foods doing the same thing, you will be waiting quite a long time. The main citation Dr. Gregor provides is an in vitro (petri dish style) study: In vitro studies should not be dismissed out of hand but they absolutely CANNOT be used as in vivo (in a living body) evidence. They are at best suggestive of potential mechanisms of causation and can inform future research. I can only describe tactics like this as “ham-handed” which is ironic given Dr. Gregor’s disdain for “the other white meat.”
Here is the post Dr. Gregor has produced to support his thoughts: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dead-meat-bacteria-endotoxemia/
I agree with much of what Dr. Gregor is saying here with regards to intestinal permeability and health. I do not agree with his complete analysis of the cause (animal products) nor the best solution (a grain based vegan diet). And again, it is fascinating what is being left out of this discussion. This paper makes the mechanistic case for dense, processed carbs being the root cause for endotoxemia. Now, we can get in and debate the merits of one theory vs the other, but to completely ignore this contradictory information implies what can only be construed to be dodgy motives on the part of the filmmaker.
Worth a mention: some degree of inflammation and arterial stiffening occur after eating ANYTHING. Dr. Gregor does not mention this fairly important fact. If one reads between the lines, some kind of intermittent feeding vs grazing schedule is likely a good idea due to the inflammatory nature of just eating.
1:17:15 Dr. Michael Klaper
1:16:54 Dr. Caldwell Essltyn “It’s really quite clear that from the standpoint of cancer and CVD that animal protein plays an enormous role…” Question from Director: “is chicken better?” Dr. Essltyn’s response: “It’s a question of if you want to be shot or hung…”
Cancer rates are increasing, but due mainly to population increases and aging:
Meat consumption over time:
Total meat consumption in the US:
We seem to have largely swapped chicken for beef, and we appear to be overall below our previous historical highs in consumption. One could argue meat consumption has, over all, increased, yet cancer rates appear to be increasing largely as a factor of an aging population and an overall increase in population. That’s one part of the original claim that meat causes cancer, the other claim was that meat is at the heart of CVD. Take a look at this:
Despite a clearly sicker population with regards to obesity and type 2 diabetes, heart disease rates are declining, due mainly to decreased smoking (the smoking decrease is powerful enough to offset even the increases in diabetes, at least to some extent). If the claims about meat consumption contributing to heart disease and cancer were true we would NOT see trends like those depicted above. It is difficult to say whether Dr. Essltyn is outright lying or is just terrible at interpreting science. Either way, his claims are not supported by the evidence. I’ll have a few more thoughts on this at the end of this review.
1:16:13 Neal Barnard: “Heterocyclic amines are clear cut carcinogens and they can form when meat is cooked or heated.” True, but high temp cooking of ANYTHING produces a variety of potentially carcinogenic substances. Cooking at lower temps reduces all of these processes, and marinades with antioxidants dramatically reduces HCA formation https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10068-011-0022-9
But wait, there is more.
Remember that study I mentioned above that looked at In vitro (not in vivo) effects? It appears the microbiome bioconverts substances such as HCA’s to largely benign substances. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25707896 From the paper: “In conclusion, even if one would assume that 100% of the daily amount of PhIP ingested by a human being is converted into PhIP-M1 in the colon, this concentration most probably would not lead to cytotoxicity and/or carcinogenicity in the colorectal mucosa.” Some of the confusion in this arena stems from clear cytotoxicity and mutagenicity in animals fed HCA’s. What might be a problem with this? Yes, animals are not people, but more specifically, animals do not eat cooked food. Humans do, and have for perhaps 500 thousand years. Possibly longer. Famed evolutionary biologist Richard Wrangam makes the case in his book that humans are neither carnivore, herbivore or even omnivore, but rather “cookivore.” Give the book a read as this thing is turning into a monster and I do not have time to unpack all the details there, but I will make the point that if the medical and research community had even a bit of influence by the Ancestral Health/Evolutionary Medicine model, much of this goofy research and blind alleys would have never happened. http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/06/invention-of-cooking-drove-evolution-of-the-human-species-new-book-argues/
The take away form all this is despite the boogeyman Dr. Barnard tries to create with regards to HCA’s, he ignores entirely that there are mitigating steps one can take when prepping food, and those mitigating steps may in fact not matter all that much when one considers that these substances are largely inactivated by the action of the gut flora. NOW…I can make a case that if the gut flora is disturbed, if the gut is unhealthy, this could be a problem, but that’s a topic for another day. One final note: Barnard really goes after chicken as the main culprit in the HCA story. He cites research which I was unable to find or verify, but I do know this: people are eating, on average, more chicken than previously. The agenda here appears to be to tackle that shift and shut it down. Interestingly, I’d like to see folks eat much less chicken, but this is due to sustainability issues, not health.
1:15:03 Kip mentions a study (does not provide it) that eating one egg per day was equivalent to smoking 5 cigarettes. I can’t actually unpack this one as there is no citation for this claim, which spurred me to search “Research citations What The Health.” The best I can find is this, which is not remotely up to snuff for a works cited: http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/facts/ Again, these are remarkable claims, with at best paltry support.
1:14:31 Michael Greger “You know these saturated fat studies that are trying to vindicate saturated fat…they are all just funded by the dairy industry.” He has a point, some of these studies are indeed funded by the dairy or egg industry…but the story is a bit more complex than that. This just replays the tape on all the old Ancel keys stuff, not the least of which was the recent unearthing of research data that was “forgotten.” The research looked at mental patients fed two diets: One high and one low in saturated fat. The low saturated fat diet was enriched with corn oil…cholesterol levels were consistently lower in the low SF group, but cardiac death and all cause mortality were WORSE. This is a remarkable study in that we’d never get this past an ethical review board today AND it was close to metabolic ward standards. The rigor of a study like this as compared to cohort studies is difficult to properly describe. They are not on the same planet. The point being, the claims about saturated fat and cholesterol made in this movie are highly inconsistent with the best science we have, populations and history, yet these claims are regurgitated again and again with no regard for what the facts actually support. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/records-found-in-dusty-basement-undermine-decades-of-dietary-advice/
1:12:18 A good section on epigenetics and that our genes are not our destiny…but clearly I’m not aligned with many of the recommendations being made.
1:10:41 Dr. Ken Williams president of the American college of cardiology: Paraphrasing: “ It is clear that increasing meat intake causes increased rates of CVD.” Kip asks “what about fish” to which Dr. Williams responds with the “4 worries,” PCB’s, mercury, saturated fat, cholesterol.” I think the first two concerns can be reasonably valid and are why it’s a good idea to eat fish that are lower down the food chain. As to the saturated fat and cholesterol “issues”…I think we’ve covered that.
Side Note:
This is a slick process overall. What the Health starts off with a fairly credible position (in most people’s eyes) of raising the question of the safety of processed meats and red meat in particular. Lots of people buy that, even if they still eat them. Then chicken, eggs and dairy are thrown in, all with the same specious claims of cancer, CVD, and diabetes being solely due to the consumption of animal products. But then they add fish. That gate-way product for vegans shifting back to animal products. Slick.
1:08:55 Mike Ewall, Energy Justice network “dioxins are the most toxic substances known to science.” Dioxins are nasty, no doubt about it, but Chris Masterjohn did a thorough unpacking of this topic here: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/dioxins-in-animal-foods-a-case-for-vegetarianism/
The movie goes on to make the point that the main input for dioxins is the grass that cows eat! But again, there is more to the story (said another way, this claim is patently false). From Chris’ article “A review published in 1995 suggested that pastured animal products would probably contain higher dioxin concentrations because of a higher rate of soil ingestion;3however, newer research has revealed the fact that the primary sources of above-average dioxin concentration in beef samples are feeding troughs constructed with pentachlorophenol-treated wood and the inclusion of incinerator waste as a feed additive.6 Grass-fed beef is not exposed to these sources of dioxins.” Mr. Ewal appears to be either very sloppy in his fact finding or he maybe, has an agenda. If I were not trying to be professional I’d say the man is “A Damn Liar.”
Again, I have to tip my hat to the What The Health folks, as one of the thorniest topics they deal with is the use of grazing animals in not just food production, but also habitat restoration, carbon sequestration…you know, “save the planet” stuff. The push for decentralized, grass centric processes is in direct opposition to the CAFO meat production just about anyone can hate. But, if a healthy, not-so-nasty alternative (pastured meat) were to gain traction (which it has) that could pose a problem for the folks who approach veganism as a religion. Is dioxin a concern? Yes. Is it a concern as presented in this documentary? Well, I’ll leave that up to you to decide. I do have to give them yet further props for wrapping up this section by relating the story that moms can pass dioxins to their offspring, both in utero and via breast feeding. This is true, but the whole context of this piece is at best questionable.
1:04:43 A section on the problems of dairy, many of which I agree with. There are interesting associations between dairy and autoimmune disease. But again, there is a lot of nuance and unpacking to get the full picture on that story.
1:02:29 Dr. Barnard comments that there is zero evidence that milk builds strong bones. Again, I largely agree with this. I have always put most dairy products into a “grey area” in that if you do not suffer any type of immunogenic reaction to dairy, fine, dig in. I do not handle bovine dairy, but do great with sheep and goat. This is one area of overlap between the vegan and paleo camps.
The movie goes on to cite research links between dairy consumption and cancer…again, this is all correlational work, BUT. There are some proposed mechanisms that could offer some insight in all this. Dairy is loaded with various growth factors, and promotes the production and release of growth factors from the liver. In the context of a chronically overfed westernized society, this could pose a problem. And in general, dairy consumption increases with industrialization. The only pesky problem here is traditional societies ranging from the Mongols to the Masai have consumed prodigious amounts of dairy but have been largely free of modern degenerative disease. This too is “anecdotal” but it’s interesting how the filmmakers appear to go out of their way to avoid mentioning any of these confounders.
1:00:38 Kip contacts the Susan Komen organization (the pink ribbon folks, whom I have serious issues, but again, topic for another day) and asks why they do not warn against dairy consumption, citing this paper which looks at high and low fat dairy consumption and cancer recurrence and mortality in breast cancer patients. This was a food frequency questionnaire (garbage) but check this out from the paper: “Intake of high-fat dairy, but not low-fat dairy, was related to a higher risk of mortality after breast cancer diagnosis.”
Let’s unpack that:
1-As I said earlier, food frequency questionnaires are recognized to be so fraught with problems and inaccuracies that many researchers have called for their abandonment. This is unlikely to happen as a massive amount of infrastructure and funding is wrapped up in this hopelessly flawed process. This whole paper and it’s findings are questionable, but let’s put that fact aside for a moment and consider this:
2-How on earth does Kip ignore that lowfat dairy (according to the study) is NOT associated with increased cancer recurrence? I clearly have my own agenda here, I’m the “paleo guy”, right? But how many times can a filmmaker do stuff like ignoring what is simply in the abstract, lying directly or by omission, and still be taken seriously? I know a lot of folks reading this do not have science backgrounds…so you are taking things largely on faith whether you believe me or the folks in this film, but if this is an error on Kips part one must really question his ability to analyze information in this sphere. If it’s not an error it’s a manipulative lie by omission, which should call into question any and all claims and motives with this whole project. But, we will not drop the ball at this point with still an hour to go in this film, we will slog through.
3-As flawed as the basic research is, let’s look at how the confounders can add up in something like this. Now, why do folks choose lowfat dairy? In general, low fat is still perceived to be a healthier option. People who make one healthy lifestyle choice tend to make multiple lifestyle choices which are arguably, healthier. People who do not eat meat (for perceived health reasons) also tend not to smoke. Although researchers claim they can adjust for all these variables, critical analysis of this type of research makes a pretty strong case this is by and large false. These murky cofounders are difficult if not impossible to adjust for and are fantastic opportunities to offer up statistically hatched lies. So, despite the limitations of the research due to the food frequency piece, one could make a case that the low fat dairy folks DID in fact see benefits with regards to cancer recurrence, but this may have nothing to do with what dairy option they chose and everything to do with the overall mindset and choices that would drive these folks to make generally healthier choices in all aspects of their lives.
58:05 Christina Stella Center for Food Safety, staff attorney. Section on the drugs, particularly antibiotics, fed to feedlot animals. I agree with most all of this, it’s dangerous and appalling. But this is also all an outgrowth of the industrial food system. Options like Polyface Farms, holistic management, mobile slaughter can make CAFO food lots a thing of the past, which would essentially remove the need for the vast majority of the meds fed to these animals and the potential problems which will come from this method of food production.
54:42 Larry Baldwin Water Keeper Alliance Talks about the number of pigs raised in north Carolina (more than 10 million…approximately equal to the human population). The film makes a solid case about how damaging this centralization is to the environment, and also the disease potential of things like the H1N1 flu virus. This is all accurate and concerning information. This whole story would also change entirely with decentralized food production which effectively managed the waste products of this process. Consider this:
That’s the total amount of nitrogen fertilizer used in the us, 1965-2010. Although a small amount of this is used for backyard gardening, a main portion goes towards row crops and industrial agriculture. What is somewhat humorous about the vegan agenda of this film (stop eating/using animals in any way) is that the primary option for fertilizing the corn, wheat and rice that these folks recommend will fall in petrochemical derived nitrogen fertilizers produced by the Haber process. Various beans and legumes ARE nitrogen fixers and can and should play a role in better managing this whole mess, but what if we effectively used the waste from animal production to fertilize our agricultural crops instead of letting it poison water systems? What would this mean for antibiotic use in animals? Watershed contamination? A frustrating element to this film is that one solution and one solution only is being presented. Are all of the environmental, social and medical issues concerning? Yes, they are. But Planet of the Vegans is not the only way to address these issues, but it is the only solution offered in the film.
48:45 Dr. Robert Ratner chief Science officer, American Diabetes Assoc. Kip interviews Dr. Ratner (he finally gets his sit-down with the ADA) and Ratner describes the mission statement of the ADA, and mentions that there is no way to prevent type 2 diabetes in all people. Not sure how Dr. Ratner has missed all the anthropological data showing populations without DM2, but I guess we will let that pass. To Kips’ credit he mentions a study comparing a low fat vegan diet vs the ADA recommendations and how the vegan diet performed better. Dr. Ratner gets pissed and closes out the interview, and is visibly pretty cranky. Dr. Ratner makes the point that many dietary approaches can reverse type 2 diabetes, there are many studies showing this. The problem is getting people to comply. Kip does not mention that a low carb diet beat both the ADA and conventional low fat diets, but hey, details. http://caloriesproper.com/diet-study-american-diabetes-association-vs-low-carb-ketogenic/
Low fat can work, so can low carb. I think LC works better (SEE MY ECOATKINS POINT ABOVE) and more consistently, but the important thing is “everything in moderation” is absolute bullocks when viewed through the lens of the neuroregulation of appetite and our modern world of hyperpalatable foods. Maybe I should write a book on that…wait…I did.
44:38 Kip mentions that dairy avoidance is associated with reduced incidence of type 1 diabetes. True, but also true for wheat, which again, he somehow neglects to mention: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4185872/
Important points: Not everyone who eats dairy and wheat develop type 1 diabetes. Not everyone who avoids these foods will be spared development of type 1 diabetes. But it may be that eliminating/avoiding allergenic foods such as these will reduce the POTENTIAL for developing the condition. This is perhaps one of the most infuriating and potentially injurious features of the film: Information is presented in black/white absolutes.
43:36 Kip discovers, in the wee hours of the night, that the American Diabetes Association is sponsored by a bunch of multinational food conglomerates. He lists a number of products like Dannon yogurt (which I can find on the sponsor page) and a number of entities that I cannot FIND, like bumblebee tuna. There is also a long list a pharmaceutical companies and even those bastards at Wonderful Pistachios.
Just kidding, pistachios are amazing.
Yes, corporate money has despoiled the whole medical industry…this is why I push for decentralization and I’d love to see 5 American medical associations, not just one. Kip goes on to do this same search for entities like the American Cancer Society…he highlights the meat oriented sponsors, yet somehow neglects to mention the folks who produce refined grain products who are also sponsors. The selection bias here is remarkable.
41:10 Steve-O. Yes, the “comedian” quasi-famous for such cinematic masterpieces as helping his friends put Hot Wheels cars up their bum, mentions an American Diabetes Assoc event he attended that had BBQ chicken. He left. The horrors. The gravitas.
(Ok, yea, I’m getting pretty punchy)
40:01 Kip beats the dead horse of the governmental bodies tasked with stewarding our health being funded by food producers. Yep, that’s a problem.
38:48 Mark Kennedy, Lawyer, PCRM- Mark describes the “check off program” which is effectively a government backed program that aids fast food producers (and others) in figuring out ways of increasing the consumption of fast food. As usual, they focus only on the meat and dairy inputs, ignore the refined grains and sugar. I’m not sure what else to say other than “and why do people want MORE government at every level of their lives?” I have an answer for that: So long as “my” perceived political ideology is in office, yea baby, bring on ‘Das Gubmnt’. Then, when the political pendulum swings it’s “OH SHIT!! How did that lunatic make it into office?! The government has too much power!” I promise, that’ll likely be the only political rant I do in this thing. Probably.
34:53 Film talks about “cheeseburger laws” which are designed to prevent litigation on the part of people who feel certain foods have caused them health problems. Only meat and cheese are mentioned. No mention of grains and or sugar.
Ryan Shapiro, Historian of National Security, MIT- Ryan describes how the American Egg board produced internal documents describing the vegan mayonase alternative, Hampton Creek as a “Crisis and major threat to the future of the American egg industry.” Too bad the American Egg Council did not just sit back and wait for Hampton Creek to be exposed as shysters and frauds: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-hampton-creek-just-mayo/?MPA_Daily_News_Roundup
Clearly there are plenty of dirtbags who are also meat eaters, this is not a uniquely vegan thing, but when you consider the games played at Hampton Creek as well as the wunder gal Elizabeth Holmes (vegan), founder of the zero to $9billion valuation to zero Theranos, you kinda have to wonder. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive
I’ve done my best to keep this as factual as I can, but at some point the annoyance with this stuff bubbles over. The tech scene is so enamored with crap like Theranos, Soylent and vertical farming that it’s almost maddening. The whole vegan schtick is sexy in that “I’m morally superior…l’m woke…” it just sickens me at this point.
32:55 (or there about) The film shifts to the massive influence of the pharmaceutical industry, how those folks do not want to see stints and statins go away. Yep agree with the analysis, just not the solution.
30:09 Jake Conroy, Formerly Imprisoned Activist- At this point in the film Kip is making the case that the pharmaceutical industry effectively gets its own legislation passed and then claims that they are so powerful they have imprisoned activists. Jake is introduced as if he was imprisoned “fighting big pharma” but was in fact part of an animals rights group called Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC).” Huntingdon Life Science is an animal testing facility (which I think a MASSIVE amount of animal testing is both unnecessary and unethical). SHAC (from Wikipedia) “used tactics ranging from non-violent protest to the alleged firebombing of houses owned by executives associated with HLS’s clients and investors. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which monitors US domestic extremism, has described SHAC’s modus operandi as “frankly terroristic tactics similar to those of anti-abortion extremists,” Jake was imprisoned in 2006 after being found guilty of harassment.
I thought the lies by omission detailed above were bad…this…I’m not sure how to even couch the degree of bait and switch bullshit here. Yes, the guy was imprisoned. For harassment of the HLS employees. And the guy is the organizer of the SHAC which has responsibility for things perhaps as severe as firebombing houses. Who firebombs anything? I can think of religious zealots and drug dealers. It’s people like this guy and DurianRider that might ensure that veganism never goes mainstream. Thanks for that guys.
26:43 Dr. Milton Mills- Kip asks if we need to eat meat to get complete protein. There is a long list of docs that come on mentioning how if you eat 2,000 cals of brown rice and broccoli, you will be “fine”. I’m not really going to unpack this as this topic has been beat to death. A vegan diet is likely better than a SAD junk food diet, at least for a while. One can reasonably easily supplement and get the things missing in a vegan diet (DHA/EPA, choline, etc) but it’s not optimum.
23:40-Dr. Michale Klaper- Mentions that “all these Paleo people are going to die from heart attacks and diabetes.” Ok. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11965522
22:19 Kip gets into some comparative anatomy, specifically of the teeth and makes the point that since we do not have large canines, we are not designed to eat meat.It’s fascinating to me that Kip manages to ignore nearly 2 million years of human stone tool use, the role these tools played in our evolution, and how this all led to a massive die of of megafauna (big critters) at the hands of our ancient and more contemporary ancestors. Some people just dismiss this material out of hand…it’s the history of humanity! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_extinction_event
There are a lot of claims that come from Vegan Land, but the “Humans evolved to be herbivore/frugivorous and “never ate meat” is on par with insisting the earth is flat. One can certainly believe these fairytales if one chooses, but it’s interesting what a disadvantage people experience when they insist on using an operating system or world view that is fundamentally flawed. The notion that humans did not hunt significant quantities of both large and small game is not supported by any of the evidence from anthropology and calls into question how humans could have lived in any pre-agriculture environment that is above the 40* latitude line. My own story around this is possibly valuable: I participated in a Discovery Channel show called “I-Cave Man” in which we were instructed on the basic use of stone tools and then tasked with living in a harsh, alpine environment in late spring. I was provided some basic instruction ins stone tool knapping, dead-fall traps and snares a few weeks before the show and I practiced like a madman. I also made and practiced with an atlatl (a hand thrown spear, in which the throwing velocity is increased using a wooden launcher) for hours every day. I was still a relative novice, but by the time of the show I could make cutting tools that worked better than surgical steel. I managed to take down a 650lb elk with this Atlatl and between myself and castmates, we butchered the whole animal and brought it back to camp. Although Billy Berger (one of the castmates) is considered to be an expert in stone tool manufacture, he has related that his skills are likely on par with that of a 4-5 year old CHILD who would have been raised in a hunter gatherer troupe. My point here is humans were very good at hunting, stone tools make up for a lack of horns, claws and ripping/tearing teeth.
Somewhat related: With a few weeks of practice I managed to develop the skills to make a fire kit and actually make a fire with a hand drill. It was a bastard, and we barely pulled off the fire as part of the show, but again, it illustrates that although many of these skills are quite complex, a relative amateur can attain enough technique to pull this off in fairly demanding situations. As I mentioned above with regards to Ricahrd Wrangham, fire was a critical part of human evolution, particularly as it relates to our nutrition:
19:47 Dr. Caldwell Esseltyn- Relates research showing improvements in patients consuming a plant based diet. Yes, any shift away from a hyperpalatable, highly processed diet is going to be a win.
The final 15 minutes of the film is a mix of rapid fire medical claims about veganism, several before and after transformations, interviews with vegan athletes and heartstring tugging cinematography. This is a slick, well done film and the whole vegan story is incredibly compelling: eat to be healthy for yourself, your world, and be a kind, spiritually superior person. Who doesn’t want that? The problem(s) arise when we ignore a few things: Veganism is not the only healthy way to eat. It’s arguable if veganism is actually healthy long term, but I’m all about folks experimenting, just be rational and honest about your experience. Some of the most compelling elements involve the notion that veganism is going to “save the planet” and it is morally superior. It’s outside the scope of this already long piece to unpack those topics properly, but myself and others are working to have a concise, well researched accounting of those topics. I will say this: the vegans are kicking our collective asses. It’s a religion, it’s a community, and identity. I’m not sure how to deal with that other than creating an alternate food religion, which honestly sounds horrifying to me. The problem is these folks are well organized, well-funded and they get massive traction in producing films like What The Health, Cowspiracy etc. Cowspiracy was crowd funded and raised more than $600K in 48 hours. We have no similar analog (with regards to scale and reach) for “ethical omnivores” that are working to address many of the issues raised in the film, including animal husbandry practices, environmental damage etc. As a movement we are remarkably fragmented and in general I’d say most folks are more concerned with getting abs than thinking about the knock-on effects of an industrial food system. Not slamming folks, just stating an observation.
Unpacking a topic like this involves shades of grey, and if I’ve learned anything about human behavior, it’s that we, as a species, do not do well in the grey. Black/White, Left/Right, Vegan/animal murderer.
UPDATE
Kip and Dr. Garth Davis have reached out to me and we are working to set up a conference where folks can present and debate theses complex topics. I’ll keep y’all updated as that progresses.
I hope you found this analysis helpful. Again, I tried to generally remain professional in my tone but clearly at some points became pretty frustrated. Now, I’d like to ask you a favor: If you do in fact care about this topic, please become a member of the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund. These folks fight the legal battles that small farmers find themselves in when they end up in the crosshairs of a local health department, or a multinational like Monsanto. The FTCLDF is interesting in that they will help just about any farmer, at any time. One of my favorite people in the world, Joel Salatin, had an interesting response when asked how vegans could get along in a world that worked along his model of food production (which includes, but is not exclusively based on animal products). His (paraphrased) response “If the vegans will let me raise the food my family wants to eat, I’ll make sure to raise the food their family wants to eat.” We could all likely learn a lot from some contemplation on that sentiment.
I’ll close with a question of sorts: Based on my average site traffic this post will get far more than 6,000 readers who would identify as “ethical omnivores.” Way more. If someone (not me) were to produce a GOOD movie based around the practices of regenerative agriculture and the Ancestral Health model, how many of you would donate $100? $50? If you are game to help, please say “yes” in the comments (along with any other observations you care to share. If your answer is “no” I’d appreciate you tell me why you’d be unwilling to support a project like this.
Update
A few of the commenters have made the point I’m biassed because I tend to promote a paleo/ancestral health approach. I mentioned all this bias myself. Multiple times. But reading comprehension ain’t what it used to be. Be that as it may, here is a review by a registered dietician (who also hold a masters in Public Health) who has many of the same concerns I had. In fact, she found some angles that I overlooked.
Update
This is an interesting article on the “Alarmist food documentary.” Kip hits every key with WTH.
UPDATE
Interesting film, The Magic Pill, looking at the ancestral health/sustainability story. It’s been released in Oz and NZ, coming to the rest of the world in January.
THE MAGIC PILL – final trailer from Robert S Tate on Vimeo.
Update
A new documentary film (Dispelling The Lies) is in the fundraising stages. This is a fantastic project and I highly recommend that folks who are interested in an Ethical Omnivore perspective on health and sustainability support this project. Please click through for more details and to donate.
I’m also excited to tell you about another brand new film, Kale vs. Cow, which will dive into the nutritional, environmental and ethical case for meat. Kale Vs. Cow is the brainchild of our friend Diana Rodgers of Sustainable Dish, a real food dietitian living on a working organic farm. The film focuses on the most vilified of farm animals, the cow, ultimately making the case that eliminating animals from our food system will cause more harm than good.
She needs your help! Support Kale vs. Cow’s crowdfunding campaign here!
Yes!
Thanks for the review!!!
Yes!
Is this a real person or the same company posting “Yes!” over and over
As I said in your other comment:
All responses have unique ISP’s and emails, so they appear to be legit. If someone were trying to “stuff the ballot box” I’d expect to see thousands, not dozens.
Yes! Thanks for your work on this
Yes!
And we’d be happy to donate a lot more than $100 if you’d sign on as an adviser Robb.
They’re aware of this, therefore they post dozens and not thousands. The art of deception is delusion.
Congrats to you Robb on writing such a “looonng” review. Seriously, no sarcasm. I appreciate the fact of the research and writing you did.
Unfortunately you lost my attention about a quarter of the way in. I could seriously sit through the “What the Health” doc so much easier.
The terms and jargon were just to much to follow. I am a simple person who needs “simplicity” to make informed choices and my friend, you did it do that for me at all. So as much as a review or case you seemed to have built, you’ve not accomplished anything to make me change my mind on my stand with the doc or my decision to become a vegan.
To be honest, after I researched you and what you do for a living $$, it was clear that this is another “A” versus “B” review.
It seems your review is trying to “convince” others to switch from Vegan to Paleo?? No?
Awe, maybe I shouldn’t say that as I did not read the whole article. True.
For me, I believe enough evidence or so-called evidence or research from the doc was good enough for me. I am quite capable to make an informed decision based on what I saw. Besides, switching to vegan is not going to kill me, Forks and Knives did an amazing job and still do of teaching the correct nutritional information to make the transition from non- vegan to vegan. To me, instead of comparing and bickering against one another, celebrate that both methods(paleo and vegan) are healthy alternatives to what many people eat today.
Keto, paleo, Vegan, blah blah blah, let’s just be free to make the choices we want to without having to read over a 45 minute (complex & scientific review) .
Just for he record, I love animals and if that were the only reason I become vegan, well, how do you review that with science?
Sara- i asked questions about clear misrepresentations in the film. Yes, i make a living telling people to not eat junk food, i’m not sure that is particularly nefarious in this case. As I said elsewhere, if Kip is not on point with the science he presents, if things are clearly taken out of context, omitted etc, then the WHOLE message is called into question. This is quite unfortunate as he makes fantastic points about corporate collusion, shady activities on the part of the governmental organizations charged with stewarding our health. “Keto, paleo, Vegan, blah blah blah, let’s just be free to make the choices we want to without having to read over a 45 minute (complex & scientific review) .” People are scared by the film, they ask for input about the veracity…just dismissing a topic because it’s hard is lazy and how we have ended up with the political situation we have in the US. Facts matter.
So Sara, you put your trust only in what you can easily digest (no pun intended) intellectually? I am not asking in an insulting tone; just paraphrasing what you said (ie. the documentary was easy to understand, the article was not; therefore you will stick with the documentary). That is a scary stance for anyone to take on any matter. Worth reconsidering.
Thanks for the review Robb – I watched the movie before I read your review, and frankly, the ‘bias’ in the movie was very evident and immediate. Your review is very fair and in accord with my conclusions about the film. For me, I improved my health dramatically by focusing on my ‘immune’ system/gut flora via incorporating more raw fruits/veggies as well as fermented foods and reducing/controlling stress, and improving my sleep quantity/quality. ‘Mainstream Medical’ never talks about the importance of a healthy immune system and its dramatic and positive affect on many health issues. Thanks and peace.
Thank gawd I read this article, I can eat again.
Yes
Yes
Is this a real person or the same company posting “Yes” over and over
All responses have unique ISP’s and emails, so they appear to be legit. If someone were trying to “stuff the ballot box” I’d expect to see thousands, not dozens.
Word! I watched “What the health” and, I am embarrassed to say, fell hook line and sinker. I have since started eating meat again and looking at both sides. This article was very informative. Thank you. Great, Great, Great points you made!!! I can see how the other side was trying to sway us now. Along with other things I’ve been reading about the NWO and how they are pushing society to go to a vegan based diet for very dark reasons.
Glad this helped, you might also find this interesting: https://quartzy.qz.com/1277389/the-art-of-the-alarmist-food-documentary/
Yes
Instead of trying to negate all the facts given, why not just try it and let the results speak for themselves. Jeez. People you’re missing the point here.
I LOVE outcome based approaches. Love them. I said multiple times there were laudable elements to the approach recommended by the film, but this does not negate the factual inaccuracies of the film. As I pointed out previously, Kip did a good job of couching the story of corporate collusion with the government in our food system. BUT. If the film is full of factual errors, it’s not hard to then dismiss these other, important, factual elements. So, instead of protecting a flawed product, you might consider asking more of people like Kip.
Let those that want to debunk science research over have their way.
Your life is your greatest asset, spend it the way that you think is just.
I will place my health with the latest research and technologies that free my family from the grips of the dairy, meat and poultry lobbies. I now realize that the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society, and the American Diabetes Association are all only telling you partially the truth.
I have been on a plant based diet now with my wife for about 7 years.
Ocassionally, on trips to Europe, we are coerced from it, but , upon our return, we always thankfully embrace it.
I myself, will never return to the diet that I was weaned on as a child in southern California from the local supermarket.
https://www.facebook.com/kellymunfordjourney/
Many people have tried the vegan diet, done it right, and failed to thrive. Some become miserably ill. There are very sound genetic and enterotypic reasons for this, that don’t care about ideology. Here are just four reasons why some people just plain don’t cut it as vegans: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans
As Robb points out, this documentary is riddled with factual errors. Anybody catching these errors is unlikely to want to try the diet, because the information given is inaccurate and often based on either misunderstanding or just plain ideology. It would be greatly to the film’s benefit to clean up the mistakes.
Yes.
Sugar is not inflammatory. What a joke.
Yes!
Yo
Anyone I have ever met with acne or eczema, including myself, show inflammation with consuming even too much fruit! So I believe sugar is an inflammatory. I am vegan and went vegan for the animals but learned that my health of course is important but overall I am worried for my siblings and their health. Plant based should not sound scary or a way to victimize people who eat animals. Just do research on your own and listen to the facts! (:
I agree. If it makes sense to you and is advantageous for your family, then do it. I was never one for listen to Joe Blow and his views he has on health while eating everything in sight. Do what feels right.
Yes!
A big yes from the Netherlands! Thank you for this info, I started watching the movie and stopped doing so in tears. I just could not handle the subjective and offensive way of throwing ‘info’ at me. Some things I could refute easily, other things I could not… I gave up. Thank you again for doing the work. I wil share the link with a friend who has metbolic syndrom en diabetis II and is now turning into a vegan… I just offered to send him some info…. he agreed… I send him Thepaleomom-site… easy to read, even voor Dutch people. But maybe he can read this too.
Are you tying to stray your friend from going vegan? Sounds unusually for a friend to want their friends to not try something that is beneficial….Please warch the rest of the documentary. Documentaries are supposed to be informational and the light of this documentary is dismal and overall freaky, but it is the truth. Please do your own research, lovely!
Yes
Yes!
Without question..!! How much do you need..??
What the Health is a direct result of
“Lack of Protein”…
Haha! Yes!
Yes!
YEs!!!
Yes
Yes
Yes!
Yes. Please, yes!
Yes. I lean vegan in my food choices out of taste preference but am not completely vegan. I want to support movement toward more decentralized and cleaner production of all food.
Yes!
Yes. Make it happen, Robb.
I respect your views but I am vegan because my heart made me do it. Believe me, I resisted. Even if it’s not healthier, I believe it’s morally the right thing for me. I enjoyed the review and am trying to be open to other views. Hard….but trying. Lol.
I love your approach. That’s how everyone should do it, in my opinion.
Yes.
And thank you for the in-depth review. A vegan friend of mine recommended I watch What the Health, but I wasn’t prepared for what felt like religious propaganda — which, as you say, is a real shame because of the very real problems with the industrialisation of food that were lumped in with vegan ideologies. Signed: an ethical omnivore.
Yes!! I would donate more than $100 for a project like that.
Yes!!
No. I appreciate your analysis. I’m just fed up with biased reports. Seems very difficult to get anything that doesn’t have an agenda. Your’s seemed to be to get a job making a movie. Good Luck.
I did appreciate your perspective.
I feel very much the same way. I’m just trying to find unbiased facts and information… shouldn’t be this difficult. I learned a lot of disturbing facts from the movie. For years, we have eaten a mostly paleo diet and couldn’t believe what we were hearing in this movie – that free range chicken and eggs were harmful…. what!? It looks like I have to continue researching. One thing is certain… After years of my husband eating mostly paleo and still has to take high blood pressure and cholesterol medications, he is convinced more than ever that the paleo diet is not working. We are going to do a three month trial period to see if he can come off of his meds. Robb, I have one piece of advice for future reviews. Please consider the readers who are truly trying to figure out which data is fact …. please be more professional in your delivery. I had a very difficult time reading your review due to your snarkines.
My step dad went vegan cold turkey after watching the film with me (I’ve been vegan for 1.5 years now). Before he followed a strict paleo diet for 5-6 years (lots of meat, eggs, fish etc) but his cholesterol was still over 300 while on meds. After 6 weeks of being vegan he got retested and it dropped to 120!! The benefits of a plant based diet truly are amazing (for both our health and the plant!)
Aimee, depending on your personal biochemistry, a vegan diet can improve or destroy your health. The claim that a vegan diet will benefit the planet is highly questionable – can you think of a single natural, healthy, ecosystem that does not include animals eating each other?
Think of grasslands covered with zebra, gazelles, wildebeest, and buffalo. What happens if you knock out the carnivores – the lions, cheetah, leopards, jackals, hyenas, and raptors? The ecosystem collapses.
Humans are proud of their big brains and their special tool of culture. A well-managed grassland supporting meat animals, or a crop farm that integrates cattle, sheep, or goats, maybe free-range chickens, is a very healthy, very resilient managed ecosystem. Year by year, good livestock management (whether running grazers on grassland or rotating them with crops) increases soil depth and fertility, sequestrates carbon, rainfall retention and percolation, and produces more human-edible food than plants alone.
By the way, my husband has familial high cholesterol. He cut out grains and sugar, and a month later his cholesterol had dropped to well within the normal range. During this trial month, he increased his intake of meat, eggs, and cheese. He’s not overweight, but his waistline shrank nearly 2′ in this month. Sadly, his love of bread, pasta, and pastries, toppled him off the wagon again, and his cholesterol and waistline went back up.
On the other hand, one of my best friends struggled to get her biomarkers into the healthy range. For her, the regimen that works well is exclusion of red meat and shellfish. She loves seafood, so she is not happy with this.
My own experience with two years of ovolactovegetarianism followed by a vegan diet was abysmal. I was doing it right – on paper. My medical team could not understand why I was so thin (90lb at 5’5″ tall), had so many deficiencies, and got so sick, given that my diet theoretically provided ample calories and enough nutrients.
Then the testing started, and the lights came on. I’m hypoglycaemic – all those healthy whole grains were doing a number on me, as was my high fruit intake. The high amount of fibre in my diet sparked off appalling IBS. I’m gluten-sensitive, so I’d developed leaky gut from my home-ground, home-baked wholewheat bread. I don’t efficiently convert ALA to DHA and EPA, so the flaxseed was going straight through, and exacerbating the IBS and leaky gut. With leaky gut and IBS, I couldn’t absorb the minerals in my food. And I’m legume-intolerant, so those healthy pulse-based dishes caused crashing migraines, and nearly destroyed my gut. I was very sick indeed. It took close to two years to get me back to health. I had to have transfusions of immunoglobins, intramuscular shots of B12 and iron, IV treatments with a vitamin and mineral cocktail, and return to an omnivorous diet. I will never, never, never, put myself through that again.
Cholesterol is essential for life. Lowering it is certainly not beneficial. Look up Dr Paul Mason.
Robb very clearly says that he has no interest in making the movie. The idea of saying whether you would or would not donate to a documentary on ethical omnivorism appeared to to me to be merely gauging interest.
As for trying a different diet to see if you get better results, there is no suggestion in this piece that you shouldn’t do that.
I only know Robb from this one article, but from my point of view it only starts to get ‘snarky’ nearer the end where he has to reiterate the same comments over and over again because the documentary lies about the same points over and over again. It’s good to hear that you did get through it as, unlike the documentary, Robb cites all of his research and is open when he has personal opinions.
Finally, don’t believe everything you see on documentaries… next week there may be one commissioned by the dairy, meat and eggs mass producers and they would have equally strong – but opposing – ‘proof’ to What The Health. It’s a minefield!
When will “Paleo” types lose the living in a big city, air conditioned/heated homes, cars, computers, etc
True Paleo types should live in caves, wash maybe once a week or month in a creek, catch their own food, hunting with spear, cook over open fire, or eat raw meat
How do you KNOW some of these factors aren’t important, humans lived that way for a majority of history
This gave me a really good laugh! Using this logic, vegans should move out of the cities and live in trees, wash very seldom, eat only plants endemic to the region, in season, raw, or cooked over a smoky fire, and use only the tools they could make from stones and sticks. That’s what a natural, evolutionary, vegan lifestyle would look like. Humans lived that way for millennia – except that there is exactly zero archaeological evidence for vegan humans. None. Zip. Nada. Thanks to stable isotope testing, it’s possible to tell not only what proportion of a diet was plant or animal, but whether the protein fraction was plant, marine animal, or terrestrial animal. Ever more sensitive tests can now pick up starch granules on stone tools and in sediments, and differentiate between fats.
Either everybody had to return to the lifestyle of millennia, or nobody has to, regardless of dietary affiliation.
So true Paleo means 100g of fiber per day right? Where do you get your fiber and how much per day?
If everyone who ate meat consumed all their meat as grass-fed beef and continued eating the same amount of meat, how much grass land would that require globally?
John, this comment suggests that you know very little about the paleo diet, as conceptualized nowadays. Paleo folks can easily eat as much vegetable matter as vegans. Paleo-dieters eschew grains, dairy products, refined sugar, and industrial seed oils. They don’t eat any industrial foods. The paleo diet is not purely meat and fat. There are even people who call themselves pegans – paleovegans. They too cut out all industrial foods, relying on foods purchased in their natural state, of kinds that they believe would have been available in the Palaeolithic.
A Paleo meal might well comprise grilled meat, a pile of sautéed kale, a small serving of sweet potato, and an enormous mixed salad. Paleo-dieters get their fibre the same place as vegans: from plants.
If grazing were more widely managed according to Alan Savoury’s principles, we could produce a lot more meat.
Yes.
Thank you-thank you. I was intrigued by What the Health and immediately dug in to see the response. My visceral response was to make a change. My step bro and his equally bad ass wife have been vegans for at least a couple decades. I stopped eating meat and dairy that day, but I cannot deny being conflicted by the fact that I’m Native. Thank you for your insight and humor on the subject. I intend to absorb as much info as I can. But what to do with all that vegan butter? There was at least one example of a native permaculture movement that seemed incredible but I am three different tribes and non Indian. How to begin to research the ancestral diets specifically even though I have some ideas and then to source things like eel. Ew. Thanks again for all the links to good info. I feed my crew and if I can at least keep them healthy and provide basic sense and guidance I’ll feel better. But I also still want abs.
I’m reading this as a link over from Mark Sisson’s Best of 2017 Research Insights….
Some interesting points that I hadn’t really thought of as well. I found it interesting when I lived in Iowa that the pig lagoons were not well maintained and that they did little to compost the detritus of the lagoons into good fertilizers. Well composted waste can be a good fertilizer..yet, someone would try to speed up the process and the waste would be hot or toxic still.
As a Business & Society researcher (yeah, I’ve got a Ph.D.–in business), I’ve always kept my eyes on the Vegan Lifestyle. Vegan left me B12 deficient and anemic. Sigh. When I gave it up, fish was not a gateway food, I slapped down some bacon and pork chops when I got done. I just could not handle Vegan.
Being a critical thinker and a food and diet tinker-er, I think that there is likely a point of compromise somewhere in all of this. Paleo seems to hit the nail on the head for me with the inclusion of healthy fats, a few 2-3 reasonable servings of protein (not an entire side of beef) each day, and lots of fresh veggies, fruits, and the ‘slower’ uptake carbs (potatoes, some flours, and oatmeal for me).
Sadly, now I’m worried about the abuse of monkeys who are used to harvest coconuts. Oy.
As a conservative thinker I believe that we each have an accountability for leaving the planet in at least a habitable state. Yet, when I teach one chapter on sustainability to my students, I realize that we’ve outgrown the planet–and that’s with me and about 25 students laying out a sustainability footprint as one person.
I know, I know, sustainability footprint calculators have their issues as well.
Anyhow, I appreciate your thoughts.
Linda
Yes.
Thanks Rob. As always, your analysis was on point snd extremely thorough. As a physician myself, I know your science is on the money. Many years ago, your book changed the way I eat forever and my health has improved no end. Thanks for all your hard work in this field, it is greatly appreciated!
Yes
Yes!!
Great review … thank you for taking the time to critically review this documentary. I have lots of referrals to watch it and now can do so critically (also didn’t realize it was another vegan documentary which leads me to not want to watch it)
When I disagree with things or feel like something is wrong I look into the they side, which is exactly what critical thinking is. In order to be a critical thinker you need to be open to the opposing sides. Please lay your biases aside when it comes to eating animals and their secretions. Please watch What the Health and though dear may arise don’t worry too much, just try to make a difference! We all can with our dollar bills! (:
Jesus. Please collect your thoughts before you decide to spray us with your word salad next time.
Thought provoking for sure, genetics seem to play a big part. Microbiotics is a very healthy life style but boring and misses out on the many fantastic plant based and meat based nutritious food choices. I am for moderation in most all things but like to get out on the fringe from time to time. Life’s short so eat your dessert first!
Yes!
Yes
Yes
Yes!
Absofuckinlutely.
Absofuckinglutely x2
Yes
Yes, in fact I helped support another film based on the same lines (The Perfect Human Diet). It had good info but lacked the pizazz needed to attract an audience outside the paleo crowd.
I liked that film. Thanks for that. I hope someone wants to make another good film that make it as big as these vegan films.
Where can I find this film?
It’s on Netflix
Film can be purchased for $9.99 from “Whatthehealthfilm.com.”
It’s on Netflix
Yes
Yes!
Fuck yes!!!
Also, I’m married to a film composer and I’m sure he’d love to provide some killer music if you make this film!!!
Yes. Thank you for the article.
Yes!
Yes. And yes. (Husband shouting from couch)
Yes!
Yes. Excellent review, as is everything you do, Robb! Thanks for being brave!
Yes! And, I for one would be very, very happy if you were on the radar of the cranky vegans. I frankly count on you to help educate the world regarding best practices – food, lifestyle and ‘saving the world’ wise. They like to believe that meat-eaters are mindlessly following the CAFO-eater masses. They’re wrong. There are folks out here who know what we are doing and are living robust, thoughtful lives. As an ex-vegan, I can honestly report that the events that I went to hosted by vegans and vegetarians vs the ancestral and paleo folks are striking in their differences. The vegans were pretentious and not friendly in the slightest; the ancestral and paleo folks are radiant, friendly, fun and intelligent. With your help, the record will be set straight.
Hi Marty. I have followed a vegan diet for six years, but I still consider myself a fun guy to hang out with. Like anyone with strong views (whether it be veganism, religion, etc), I agree that people can be so caught up in their beliefs, they become insufferable. If you are ever in Eastern Canada, we can have a beer!
I’ll take you up on that if the offer is extended.
that is quite the generalization saying that “The vegans were pretentious and not friendly in the slightest”. The politics of diet are not pretty, just like politics in general. There are plenty of meat eaters that aren’t friendly either. being vegan (or your diet in general) should be looked at as an individual endeavor. It doesn’t need to become a fight but rather finding a lifestyle and making food choices that make YOU feel good and thrive. You wouldn’t judge another for playing a game that makes them happy, just as you shouldn’t judge them on the lifestyle they’ve found that makes them happy. Vegans are not a virus that you should be “on the radar” for. Eating a plant based diet fills you with micro nutrients while meat and dairy can leave you feeling bloated, lethargic, or tired. Maybe that doesn’t apply to all people, and of course it doesn’t. We’re all different. How do we expect people of different backgrounds and experiences to eat the same way as us. The most you can do it educate yourself as much as you can and make as educated choice on how you want to live your life. That said, you would hope others do the same to ensure the best life for themselves. There is no motive for vegans to try to “convert” meat eaters to their lifestyle if they didn’t think it would make them(the meat eaters) feel as good as themselves (the vegans). If you were unhappy with your life, why would you recommend it? If you are educated enough to make a thoughtful decision on how you want to live a fulfilling life, i think there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the people that mindlessly eat food just because it was artificially titled as “healthy”, that need to take another look at what they’re consuming and fueling their body with; whether that’s vegan or vegetarian or paleo, or whatever. I just think people should venture out, try new lifestyles, and not be so quick to judge people and what they eat with out having tried that diet before, because you won’t know the best thing for your body if you just stick to the standard american diet just because it’s “normal”.
Yes!
Common sense indicates to me that eating meat cannot possible be as harmful as “What the Health” claims. I really needed this review to help me make sense of the movie. I haven’t finished the entire review or clicked through all the links yet but I will.
My only negative comment about this review is that the Vegans in my life are fabulous people and I endeavor to treat them with the kindness they treat the entire world. I hated that you started with a reference to militant vegans – I guess they must be out there but the vegans I spend time with are LOVELY people. At a vegan wedding just days ago we danced for hours and love and joy were in the air!
For a movie to compete with this one it will need to be straight forward and funny. It is certainly difficult to make a scientifically sound argument that is easy for the masses to take in quickly but we need to TRY hard to do it.
I like Lily’s response and would agree with her. Everyone should eat whatever they want if it continually ‘feeds’ them…no pun intended…but id does work! If one is healthy…no cancer, no health issues…then keep on doing what you are doing. If, however, there are health problems..it’s time to relook at lifestyle ways, which may or may not include food. however food is the biggest thing we consume…so it makes sense to start the changes there.
I agree with Margaret.
I am not surprised the vegans behaved that way! They are in serious need of a tryptophan fix!
Absolutely, yes man!!!!
Yes
I would absolutely give $100, if not more. We NEED this. I cannot wrap my mind around being vegan. Most vegans I know don’t eat animals, but will consume massive amounts of sugar and flour. It blows my mind.
That is true, but I would say massive amounts of carbs. I eat a lot of unrefined carbs, but not a lot of simple sugars. Guilty when it comes to bread as well. That being said, I do a lot of long distance running, and that stuff is the fuel of my engine.
Unrefined carbs become simple sugars in the body. So you are just doing the refining internally. What is more frightening to me is the consumption of soy, which isn’t too good for humans and most is grown with the aid of glyphosates and petroleum, as are most non-organic grains. A high carb diet is filled with glyphosates(used as a desiccant) unless organic. I’ll take a pasture fed cow over a bowl of soy any day.
Yes.
It would need to be great to penetrate the minds of those it needs to, but it’s possible – ‘Food inc’ changed my thinking dramatically.
Yes!
Yes. Yes. All day long yes. I would donate way more than $100 if we’re serious about this.
Yes, and thanks for the review, I’m happy to use your article as a rebuttle to all the people telling me to watch the movie (I did begrudgingly) but would love to send them back to watch your movie instead.
YES!
Yes (duh)
Yes!
Very timely review as my husband and I watched this documentary in disbelief this weekend, and I was searching for a review from a Paleo/ancestral health approach. I don’t understand how documentaries like this one completely ignore how humans have lived and evolved over time. My “favorite” lines from the documentary (paraphrasing) were:
“Elephants, one of the strongest animals on earth, only eats plants.” Um, okay but the king of the jungle eats animals so…
And
“With a vegan diet and supplements, you will thrive!” HELLO the fact that you have to supplement negates everything you just said.
Thanks for the great facts oriented review! I just started Wired to Eat and I can’t get enough!
So….
Life span of an Elephant : 70 to 80 years.
Life span of a Lion : 12- 15 years.
Yes, and fruit flies are a matter of days, while some whale species may be in excess of 200. I know your implication is that plant eaters inherently live longer…this has absolutely no bering in any of what we are discussing. If you want to run with this, what is the average lifespans of chimps and gorillas relative to humans??? Oh…gee…
God some vegans are so fucking stupid. Hey LG did you even read the damn article?? Holy fuck. There really isn’t anything else you can say to ignorance like this.
How simply one forgets how similar we are to chimps and gorillas HAHAH
@Alexis: have you ever looked at the actual physical differences between other great apes and humans? Like the reversal of the ratio between small and large intestines? We’lol leave gorillas out of it, as they are much more distant relatives than chimpanzees. In chimpanzees, 1/3 of the total gut is small intestine, 2/3 is a very large sacculated caecum plus huge colon. In humans, it’s the other way around. This strongly suggests that chimpanzees can digest a heck of a lot more fibre than humans, as the caecum is a big alkaline fermentation vat. The marked extra length of the small intestine in humans strongly suggests that humans took a different evolutionary path, in which we became truly generalist feeders, equally capable of digesting plant and animal foods.
I’m an anthropologist who specializes in archaeology. There has never been a hominin species that was not omnivorous. I always think that too much credit is given to the big brain, and not enough to our amazing generalist gut – and our staggering ability to lay down fat. A very lean woman, at 18% body fat, carries 3 times as much fat as a female chimpanzee in prime breeding condition. A scrawny man down to 5% body fat is still twice as fat as a hunky male chimpanzee, running 1-2%. Our fat gives us high survival ability in lean times, better female fertility, and higher reproductive success than chimpanzees.
Even within our species (mostly sapiens, but with varying amounts of Neanderthal, Denisovan, and at least one Species X, which is thought to be Homo erectus), there is considerable variation. Although we may vary by less than 6% in gross genome, looking at SNPs shows that we have a million Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms. If you and I differ by only 1%, that is still 100,000 differences in our genes. Then there’s the messiness of gene copy numbers. Take Salivary Amylase 1: I might have only 6 copies, you might have over 30. I would have a tough time with starches (I am, in fact, hypoglycaemic), while you might thrive on grains. Which version of the ApoE gene do you have? Maybe you have a variant that limits your ability to process saturated fat; my variant might allow me to eat any amount of animal fat and maintain low cholesterol and very low triglycerides – which is indeed the case.
My ancestors over the last 300 years were lactase-persistent Northern Europeans, for whom dairy products and fish were staples, and Afrikaners, who relied very heavily on red meat and dairy products. There’s also a dash of KhoiSan. Over this period, children born with genes that did not fit them for a high-protein, high-fat diet, would probably have died at weaning.
In a population where the diet was starch or fruit heavy, with little access to animal foods past weaning, the reverse would have happened. Children with high requirements for protein, inability to synthesize DHA and EPA from ALA, and high zinc and iron requirements, would have died. The population’s genome would be skewed toward the plant end of the dietary spectrum.
There are very real biological differences between individuals even of the same birth family. A diet on which one child thrives might be less than optimal for a sibling.
I was very ill as a vegan. Yes, I was doing it properly! It was only when my body went Into a severely catabolic state and I had a battery of tests done that I found out that I’m hypoglycaemic. I also have low starch tolerance. All those whole grains and fruits I was eating were wrecking my metabolism. I’m highly sensitive to legumes, so the lentil rissoles, tofu, and beans, caused smashing migraines, IBS, and leaky gut. I was dangerously anaemic, and seriously deficient in vitamins A, D, and B12, and in several minerals. I had to have IV infusions of immunoglobins to get my immune system functioning again, plus painful intramuscular injections of iron and B12. It turns out that I don’t make much vitamin D, regardless of how many hours I spent each day under South African sun, or efficiently convert beta carotenoids to retinoids. But then, for many generations, my ancestors’ staple foods were rich in both. Genes can be lost with disuse. Many Inuit, for example, cannot produce sucrase. Fruit makes them as sick as milk makes those who don’t produce lactase.
Undeniably, some people thrive as vegans as long as they supplement wisely. Others thrive on paleo diets with no supplementation at all. There are people who eat nothing but raw meat and fat – and their health is provably excellent.
There’s really no point in comparing humans to chimpanzees. It makes more sense to compare sapiens genomes with really close relatives – Denisovans and Neanderthals. We were so closely related to them that we interbred.
Supplementing is a completely different topic. Our soils are deficient = our food is deficient. We all must be supplementing
Supplementing is not necessary if your diet includes plenty of nutrient-dense animal foods & limits/excludes plant foods with their poor bioavailability of nutrients & their anti-nutrients inhibiting nutrient absorption.
Yes I would proudly donate! I just need to catch up on my car payments first.
The only supplement a well-planned vegan diet needs is Vit B12, and this is not because it is made by animals. It is not. It is made by bacteria. In ancestral times we all got enough Vit B12 just drinking out of streams or ripping a tuber out of the ground. Now, with food sanitisation practices, even meat eaters may be Vit B12 deficient and need supplements. In some animal husbandry practices, livestock are supplemented with Vit B12 so that the meat product actually contains Vit B12.
Vitamin B12 is present in beef because the grass that cattle eat feeds the bacteria in their rumen & the cattle then digest the bacteria. And there are many nutrients, including essential amino acids & fatty acids, lacking in a vegan diet.
I would support a movie like that!
Thank you for this analysis and it really helps see the other side. I’ve been a big supporter of paleo for years and now I’m questioning…
I was hoping you would have got to this study that showed high fat, not high carb consumption acutely impairs endothelial function. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9036757
This is interesting for those of us who exercise yet fat not carbs limit this flexibility for 4+ hours. This looks bad to me but your thoughts?
I touched on this in the article amigo, ALL meals cause a decrease in endothelial function.Their “high fat” meals were both high fat AND high carb…should this surprise anyone that this would be the worst of all worlds? This is a case for not having highly complex meals and also to do some degree fasting vs grazing. Always question, but before formulating a question, establish CONTEXT.
Brian,
I am in this field and there is evidence showing that exercise prevents the transient potential decrease in endothelial function. With that being said, if you are an exerciser, you are likely protected. There is thought that these transient decreases in FMD, but no one really knows yet. There is no longitudinal study indicating a potential decrease on FMD is predictive of heart attack, mortality, etc. Lastly the studies on lo get term effects of fat vs carbs on FMD do not show a negative effect of fat .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25497262
This study focused on eggs specifically. For what it’s worth, Dr Katz is huge proponent of plant based diets, so I really trust these data given they are the opposite of what he likely had hoped for.
Yep. Also a lot of the regenerative ag folks are more and more post-vegan and that group is growing. It should be a combined effort. I know the Carbon Underground folks if you’re interested.
Yes! I couldn’t agree more with your analysis of the pseudo documentary. There’s nothing more frustrating than seeing the sheeple flock to lies, half truths and blatant terroristic agendas. I was once a vegan(while going through cancer treatment) and ended up in the hospital with severe malnutrition and other deficiencies. I had been following a strict vegan diet for years and often took advicer from a well-known vegan nutritionist (no names given?!) I learned to listen to my body, educated myself in my own nutritional needs (primarily paleo) and kicked the snot out of colorectal cancer! (Imagine! A vegan diagnosed colorectal cancer at the age of 39!!!) Thanks for opening eyes!
You weren’t vegan all your life. And cancer takes years to grow. YEARS.
Explain babies (0-12months old) with cancer… (from your theory of cancer needing years to grow)
They will blame the meat eating mom…
I would absolutely be willing to contribute to a film on this topic. I’m trained as an anthropologist and studied human evolution, the rise of agriculture and nutrition years ago as an undergraduate and have been concerned about misrepresentations about healthy diets and eating ever since. It’s little remembered that one of the first books talking about what is now called a Paleo diet was written in the early 1980s by a couple of female anthropologists who had worked with hunter-gatherer populations. Back then, writing about food and nutrition was seen to be as a “women’s topic” and it was not given much respect in the academic community.
Yes! I too went vegan for about 3 years. At first I lost weight and felt great. Now I realize it was from cutting out processed foods. After awhile I felt awful. My b-12 and D3 numbers were in the toilet. My digestion from all the raw food was horrible. I ended up with colon cancer. I’m clear now after surgery/Chemo but am healing myself with good quality meat and lots of bone broth. Vegan is not for everyone.
Yes! About time.
Thanks for the review. Maybe we can start by doing a kickstarter to buy you a bottle of “just for men”. I’m sure you grew some gray hairs after that epic review.
More than a few!!
Yes and thank you for the review!
YES
Yes!!
Thank you so much for this! Working in the Keto idea and looking into diabetes as an optometrist this movie got me equally fired up. Thanks again, I really appreciate your work and time you took to write this.
Thank you.
Ryan
Yes!!
Thank you so much! Appreciate your work!
Thanks again
Ryan
Boom roasted lol
Now that’s funny.
Yes!
Yes, I would definitely support a film highlighting regenerative agriculture in the context of Ancestral Health! Bring it!
Been a follower of your site since 2010. You do great work. At 57 I’m better than at 27. You are a part of this. So yes. I would help
Honored!!!
YES YES YES!!!
Yes, yes, and yes.
And thank you for doing this despite the cross-hairs!
Yes and thanks for the great rebuttal points in the review. We need to feed the sustainable omnivore movement.
Yes.
Absolutely, yes.
Yes! I will donate!
Yes
To regenerative Ag
Yes x1000
Yes!
Yes, I would! Thanks for the thorough review!
Im poor grad student so I couldn’t donate 50 but definitely donate 10 or 20
More than generous, thank you!
I’m not a grad student, but I’m still poor. 😉 I’ll donate $10. Keep up the good work!
Yes
Thanks for this insightful review. And, yes! I love the idea of a movie, Rob! I hope someone from the ancestral health movement picks up the vision and runs with it!
Yes.
Thanks for taking the time to write this! Great review! This is exactly what I needed!
YES! I would walk to your house from WV and hand deliver the money after that review!
Me too lol
Yes. I believe educating people is a large piece of the solution to improving our national health epidemic. I certainly didn’t have nutritional information growing up and was obese until age 35. Now I try to pass on what I’ve learned to anyone who asks. I would be most happy to donate to this cause.
Yes, you can count me in!
Great breakdown of What the F**K? 😀
Yes!
Yes!
Yes.
You have my email and my $100.
Let’s go.
Yes. Anything I can do Robb!
Yes
Yes. Thanks for the review and all your other work.
Absolutely yes. Not sure how much help I’d be, but I do have degrees in both kinesiology and acting as well as nutrition certifications and geek out as much as possible around this stuff. And I’m good at talking to/connecting people. If you need me, I’d love to help on the project., should it happens. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Thanks for the careful review. Yes, I would support a film along the lines you suggest.
Yes.
I appreciate the detail and nuance in this review. Keep up the good work!
SI
Yes
YES!!! I would love to see this more than anything!
Yes!
Would be happy to contribute, of course, and to hook the producers up with local farmers in my area who are doing exactly this kind of farming and land restoration. (There is no shortage of them!)
Yes, most definitely
Liked your review. You didn’t mention the people in the movie who were on multiple prescriptions and after a few weeks on a plant-based diet, were off meds and feeling better. Do you think it was the plant-based diet or they were over medicated to begin with?
Judi- I did mention them as part of the “transformation” section. Undoubtedly this is an outgrowth of their basic diet change. I do not think veganism is optimum for most people, particularly over the long haul, but it is clearly much, much better than the diets that got these folks into their predicaments.
I noticed in the film the first ‘transformation’ woman references fasting and a plant-based diet. I believe the two transformation stories were from the TrueNorth Health Centre, which is for medically supervised extended fasts. My opinion is that the extended fasting and the resulting autophagy is actually the reason for the profound results, not the plant-based diet that follows the fast.
I’m acknowledge I am making this assessment based on limited details from the movie, but that was my take-away.
That is a good catch and I wondered about that…but I was so burned out there at the end i could not muster the mojo to go further.
Yes…..
Plus try to get someone like Dr. Jason Fung (a board certified internist/nephrologist) to be your “diabetes expert” rather than someone like Neal Barnard ( a board certified psychiatrist) whose only real claim to expertise in internal medicine seems to be the performance biased based epidemiology research he has conducted.
Same thing with paleoanthropology…get people like Harvard professors like Daniel Lieberman and Richard Wrangham rather than an emergency room doctor like Milton Mills, who being a creationist, doesn’t even believe in evolution.
Heck you can remake the same exact film with the same exact structure just using different people talking about the same topics.
Though seems like in the vegan world, and it’s somewhat ironic given the appeal to authority, but the only thing that seems to qualify someone as an “expert” in any of this group’s films is that the so-called experts use the title ‘Dr” and are vegans. This was the same thing in Cowspiracy where the main talking head “Dr” Oppenlander is a dentist. Then again there’s nothing that disqualifies someone just because they’re a dentist (e.g Weston Price) . Though having some basis in actual objective science, rather than simple minded vegan dogma, certainly helps a lot.
Though then again what makes this quasi religion veganism so accessible is it simple mindedness. All that ails us in terms of our health the environment’s health is due to eating meat, so the simple cure is just “go vegan.” People are always looking for easy answers to more complex difficult problems.
Love it!
As a psychiatrist, I find it offensive that you think a psychiatrist could not know as much about nutrition as a nephrologist (Dr Fung, in this case). There is eg, a whole sub-specialty in psychiatry of nutrition and mental health.
I am also offended by your suggestion that a vegan diet is an easy option and simple-minded. What, more simple-minded than doing what you have always done, just eating meat, dairy and eggs, without thought to the cruelty of this practice or the ravaging of the planet?
Do not invoke ‘ethical omnivorism’ as a response as others have done. Whether the cow is ‘humanely’ raised on a family farm, almost as a pet, or whether it has spent most of its life in a CAFO, it ends up in the same place, dead from having its throat cut.
Not eating the animals that died in the production of your food does not make them any less dead. The mice, snakes, and birds – among other taxa – killed by machinery, poisons, and flame-throwers don’t die peacefully and painlessly. There are no angels guarding special plants supernaturally destined for vegan plates.
The horrid truth is that producing food for humans always involves the death of non-human animals. It may be indirect, like habitat destruction and water diversion, or direct – the already-mentioned cultivation practices, or by deliberate slaughter for meat. Whether or not you stick your knife and fork into their corpses, they died so you can eat.
The thing is, death is an inextricably tied in part of life. Nature is basically a big recycling machine. We are made up of the same atoms that were stars billions of years ago, and they probably made up countless other things in between. Animals, plants, bacteria, etc are all dying and feeding on each other constantly. Death is unavoidable, and we are not magical exceptions from nature that can think we are above it all.
Yes. I can’t break stuff down like you Robb but I can smell crap from a long ways away lol. I would support a film that is well done showing how well sourced meat and healthy fats increase health and longevity!!
yes
Thank you so much for going into detail and using actual SCIENCE to explain/support your points. I watched this documentary and was enraged the whole time. He thinks he is really proving his point and sticking it to the man by asking front desk receptionists and hotline operators the “hard hitting questions”. I think this guy skipped 7th grade science class when we learned about the scientific method and how accurate data is actually obtained.
Thanks Robb. Would absolutely contribute/donate to such a project. We might not have the organized community of the vegan crowd but I’m guessing that if someone with the necessary skills came forward, the backing would absolutely follow.
100% yes. Thanks for your well thought out (and courageous! ) review. I’ve seen quite a few Paleo bloggers berated by vegans lately. As a RD, I appreciate you doing what you do–it takes a village to spread the ancestral health message!
Aye. Put me down for $100.
Yes! Great work Robb.
Kip, really is my name – not a play on the guy who made the film. Thanks for
posting this. I just watched this with my wife this weekend and I struggled with so much of it. I’d throw in $150 to make an alternative film.
YES!!! Please DO it we need it…these vegan films are so confusing and I hate to accept that they are very convincing I even thought about turning vegan after I saw the film! … But when I realized the experts in the film where all vegan I knew there was something fishy.
Yes.
You gonna make a documentary?
I’m not going to tell you to not let the crazies bother you because I have no idea what it is like to be in the crosshairs of any militant. All I can say to you is: “Thank you, Robb!”
You’ve changed the health and lives of many, many people. You’ve changed mine. Reading your words and listening to your podcasts have clarified much confusion about how to stay healthy and off meds as I sit on the cusp of closing 6 decades of life, looking forward to vibrant health for another 2, 3, dare I wish for 4? It is my hope that the words of gratitude and encouragement from your fans lift your heart.
This world needs folks with open minds and kind hearts. Why should we beat each other up over what’s on our plates? Total waste of energy and time.
Yes, i’d absolutely donate to the cause Robb!
yes
YES!!!!!!!
Without a doubt, YES.
YES
Yes!
Thanks to you and the rest of this community my health has improved dramatically since 2013.
I’d definitely support a movie!
Yes.
Yes and thank you for all you do.
Yes
Yes
Thanks for everything you do.
I owe my better digestive health to all the information you provide.
Yes. So much Yes!!
Yes! It’s badly needed!
Yes
Yes!
Thank you for saying what my brain cannot and for explaining confusing research. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge, so so much. I will be sharing this with some nurses at work who will be nurse practitioners soon. I attempted to kindly debate this film with them-but I just can’t seem to verbalized what I have learned. I don’t want medical practitioners passing the info of one documentary on to patients who listen without doing their own investigating. Then they end up in the recovery room where I work, sad and defeated and in pain. It’s heart breaking and frustrating! Again, thank you for the value you bring to the world.
Yes.
Yes
A friend of mine showed me this in response to my recent decision to go vegan after watching ‘What The Health’. After reading it, here was my response to him:
Great read. I recognized when I watched it that quite a lot of the claims made were hyperbole, overstated, rested on a false premise or equivalence, or were simply inconsistent with the best science we have. Many half-truth claims were regurgitated again and again with little regard for what the nuance of the whole truth. I get it – and I saw it and the very clear agenda when I watched it. Even recognizing this though, I had a visceral reaction to this documentary. Which apparently is pretty common – meaning they did a good job pushing their viewpoint, even if intelligent viewers realized their agenda and their sometimes weak arguments and weak science on some specifics. As the author writes:
“This is a slick process overall. What the Health starts off with a fairly credible position (in most people’s eyes) of raising the question of the safety of processed meats and red meat in particular. Lots of people buy that, even if they still eat them. Then chicken, eggs, and dairy are thrown in, all with the same specious claims of cancer, CVD, and diabetes being solely due to the consumption of animal products.”
In general, my main overall gripe against this movie is that there is a lot of nuance and unpacking to get the full picture that just isn’t included, and flat-out ignored because it isn’t in line with their agenda. There is a lot of mixing up of correlation and causation.
That said, this documentary made me ‘wake up’ and take a real hard look at what I was eating – which is always a good thing. I switched to a mostly vegan diet in the last few days since I watched it and I think I’ll continue to closely watch what I’m putting in my body from now on, though I doubt I’ll ever go full vegan since I’m not a zealot by nature about anything. I think if we can respect the fact that the filmmakers had a clear agenda and get past that and its obvious effects on the way they present some of their information we can see a clearer takeaway that industrial agriculture is seriously fucked up and take a second look at our food consumption habits.
David: Outstanding! I am glad you had both a positive experience with the movie AND saw the limitations of the messaging and tactics. Thank you for the lengthy response, this is fantastic and I wish you well on your health journey.
It is false to say that because meat consumption had increased and heart disease has fallen then citing meat as a contributing factor is crazy. It could well be that if people had reduced tobacco and meat then HD would have fallen further, the tobacco drop has trumped the meat increase in other words. Also processed meat contributes to HD, yes they used relative risk but do you really want to eat processed meat if it increases HD by 1%, why would you ?. The only diet proven to have reversed HD is a whole food plant based diet (Ornish and Esseltyn), while we are debating whether meat should or should not be ruled out I suggest hedging your bets and eating WFPB.
I would also with respect suggest that the likes of Kresser and Zoe Harcombe are not buying factory farmed, anti biotic pumped supermarket meat but for the majority that is the only economic option other then WFPB
Mark- No, a ketogenic diet has shown the same CVD reversal as some of the ornish like programs, which are themselves a comprehensive lifestyle intervention, which calls into question if it was the diet, the lifestyle or the combination. You clearly did not read my piece very well as I made exactly the point that you did, but provided the context of although people eat, in general, less meat, they eat more chicken, although ALL of these consumption levels have generally decreased since the 80’s. Finally, you STILL clearly do not understand the limitations of correlation studies nor what the absolute risk story is here. As I said in the piece, due to the nature of the food frequency questionnaires there is more noise than signal in all of this, yet people like you and the filmmaker are presenting it as if it were as solid as plate tectonics or electromagnetic theory. Again, i fleshed all of this out in the original piece, how on earth did you miss this? Finally, if we assume ther IS something to the absolute vs relative risk, here are the exact details of that: Someone who does not eat meat has a 5% risk of colon cancer. Someone who eats processed meat, every day of their lives has a risk of 6% (according to the already suspicious correlational data). Those are the facts. You can learn the science to a sufficient degree to understand this on your own, or continue to live in the dark. that you’d defend the use of dodgy statistical manipulation like presenting the 5 vs 6% risk as the 20% cited in the film is telling. This is what religious zealots do. they claim the earth is 6,000 years old and do their damnedest to ignore any information which calls their religion into question.
Robb If I am guiilty of not reading your piece you are certainly guilty of not reading my reply. I acknowledged that 5 v 6%
If I am guilty of not reading your iece properly then you are certainly guilty of not reading my reply. I stated that 5 v 6% was a more accurate representation but why take the extra 1% risk ?. Why are you accusing me of not understanding this?. I agree that Ketogenic diets are a useful tool, I eat close to that myself. Furthermore yes I do understand the limitation of correlation studies, I am a data scientist. My point is made however from a pragmatic point of view. While we pontificate about the fact that correlation does not mean causation and we tap out fingers waiting for the impossible double blind placebo controlled food trial, people out there need to make a choice based on the best evidence we have even if its not perfect. The evidence is that no one has popped up and said that a WFPD is bad for you, even a hard nosed paleo enthusiast would have difficulty whereas the debate seems to be whether meat and dairy is good or bad. So what should one do ?, I would suggest go WFPB until you guys sort this out and one of you wins the debate.
Mark- Apologies if I misread/misrepresented what you said. I will argue that there is sufficient evidence that at least meat, fish etc is “safe.” I place dairy in a bit of a grey area, which as I said in my original piece, is where paleo/vegan have significant overlap.
Yes. I watched this last night and went to bed with all sort of trepidation and lack of sleep. I was really pleased to see your review this morning. Keep fighting the good fight!
From New Zealand, yes! And thanks for the phenomenal review 🙂
Yes!
Yes
YES! Absolutely. And thank you for the amazing amount of work you put into this review.
Yes.
I’m a film producer – ! and a diabetic controlled by diet only – LCHF
Yes – in a heartbeat! Thanks for taking the time to respond to this film so thoroughly – now off to check out the FTCLDF…
I’m new to this whole arena of conversation…what does FTCLDF or LCHF stand for? Thanks for your help
Farm To Consumer Legal Defense Fund
Low Carbohydrate High Fat
Yes!
Yes, absolutely! I’ve been excited to see this trend evolve from the whole Paleo 2.0 a couple years ago, and I hope it continues to gain traction! Keep up the great work.
Yes! Great review – thanks so much for saving me and so many other from having to watch this propaganda 🙂
Zoe, please make that sacrifice. The more content out there correcting this nonsense, the better
Yes. Great review.
YES ROBB.
And thanks again. ✌🏽 love your work
Yes!!
YES YES YES
Yes! – excellent review btw.
YES!
Yes. I’m in. Send me the kickstater link and let’s get this thing done. Netflix is all about veganism and juicing. We need to teach people how to eat again.
No! You come across as prejudiced against vegans and rather condescending to those who question your beliefs. Best to keep an open mind amigo and not be blinkered by professional training.
Thanks for that Bill. Can you please comment about the scientific inaccuracies in the film?
I’d contribute!
When I heard Dr. Neil Barnard say that diabetes was never caused by eating sugar I couldn’t pick up my jaw that hit the floor. Yet we have doctors such as Dr. Jason Fung (who’d be great to interview btw, as he doesn’t mince words) are able to reverse T2D completely in a matter of a couple weeks because they understand the effect that refined carbs have on insulin resistance.
Dr. Fung is a board certified internist. His specialty is nephrology (kidneys). Whereas Barnard is a board certified psychiatrist, not a board certified internist. Barnard’s not a nephrologist or endocrinologist. The basis for Barnard’s so-called expertise are the numerous performance biased epistemological studies Barnard has done to support his confirmation bias.
What was most striking in this mockumentary was that Barnard, the so-called “diabetes expert” didn’t even seem to understand how the human liver works, specifically in regards to fatty acid synthesis (de novo lipogenesis) which converts excess carbs into saturated fats.
Never seizes to amaze me how people like Noakes can be put on trial in South Africa, while unqualified fools like barnard can pretty much say whatever falsehood they damn well please.
Amen to everything.
I believe Dr Barnad has board certification in both psychiatry and internal medicine.
It is true that carbs CAN be converted to fat but this is a very uncommon process. De novo lipogenesis only occurs in the presence of markedly excessive caloric intake. Pretty well all of the carbs we eat are used for energy or else stored as glycogen in the liver or muscles.
100%
ABSOLUTELY YES.
Yes.
Yes… i wiuld love a Paleo film lived this way for 6 years helped family members reverse their high blood pressure, pre diabetes mental health issues and my own gastritis IBS etc have my own page on facebook Paleo Primal Uk just trying to spread the message.
Yes
Yes, definitely!
I also contributed to Cerial Killer, and I find your proposal of making a movie based on regenerative agriculture and ancestral health so much more important! I have been so frustrated by the vegan agenda hijacking the environmental issues. Just yesterday I had an hours-long discussion with my nephew, who is studying for his master’s in ecology, and is vegan purely out of environmental concerns – believing this is the only solution. He even told me how shocked his vegan friends were when he told them that one day he might have his own chickens for eggs and meat. He thinks that people who want to eat meat should have to kill it themselves. (!) But since this is not really possible, the only solution is to be a vegan. He had never heard of holistic management/grazing, and was absolutely sure it would not work in a country with as little available land as in the Netherlands, where he lives.
We need your kind of movie.
Also, thank you so much for this write-up!
Yes!
Ummmmm YESSS!
Yes!
Maybe the reason why the responsible omnivore movement hasn’t seen the impetus to making a film such as this (other than our love for getting abs) is that, rationally, we cannot be bothered because we are too busy not being crazy…and I would submit that the level of crazy I am talking about has a lot to do with basic nutrient imbalances due to omitting some fairly important amino acids and omegas out of the diet?
All good points, but we can no long let these people have free run.
Yes. Go for it.
Yes!
I would definitely help and ask other people to help donate for you to make a movie!
Absolutely yes! Love that you took the time to write this. I wanted to Luke the what the health documentary for calling out certain things but they left out SO MUCH! Selective bias is absolutely correct. And not to mention so much false information… Would love to see an ethically made documentary on food.
Yes!
Yes!
Hi Brian, I actually found your site exactly because I was searching for a review of this movie and I thank you for it.
Yes, I would donate as much as I can.
The issue with the most optimal human diet has been a crux for a long time for me. I’ve been a vegetarian, then vegan (only a year) but never felt optimal during those times. I am still trying to figure this out for myself and now your side provides an amazing source – thank you for this too.
Yes!
Yes yes yes!!! I am obsessed with documentaries and thoroughly enjoyed your review. It was so hard to sit through the documentary, cringing the entire time. We need “grey” documentaries! Not black/white
Yes
YES
YES!
Fuck yes
Yes
YES! Thanks for this, Robb.
Side note – if your comment box is placed above the actual comments section, you’ll probably get more response on stuff. Humans (Me) are so lazy – I’m passionate about this stuff and I almost didn’t scroll ALL THE WAY 🙄 down to add my YES. (Using mobile version btw)
Yes!!
Yes.
The trick will be in what constitutes a ‘good movie.’ Production would have to be done in a way that gives balanced and objective view of science so doesn’t fall prey to reciprocal criticisms of cherry-picking and bias. You will know better, but I would guess this is harder than it looks. The old adage of it taking 100x the effort to refute BS than to produce it feels like it will apply.
I agree, i do not want a repeat of crap like this, only with a paleo/LC slant.
I genuinely think both can be achieved. Indeed, I think it will make it a much better movie.
Concede that *all* diets reducing processed, hyperpalatable improves health directly. But likewise, point out how this is often used to set up a false dichotomy on food activist films.
In doing so, you’re setting up a much more effective, objective position to bring the science to the specificity of this diet.
I haven’t seen What The Health but it sounds like it’s pretty compelling. If we could present our case similarly without resorting to the tactics they used, that would be great. We also want to avoid falling into the trap that thinking that presenting facts is compelling or that being fact-based will allow us to “win” the argument.
Great points and that is something to take from WTH: they rely heavily on the emotional content to anchor the “facts.”
Oh Yes Yes Yes ! 😃
I’m in!
Thanks for exposing the garbage that flows around us every day.
Great article, confirmed a lot of what I was thinking when I watched it. My only (minor) thing is I think advocates of a paleo diet are a little hypocritical when decrying and lambasting veganism as an over-zealous religion and identity.
Jon- I do not recall ANY paleo centric people firebombing folks houses. Yes, the newly converted can be annoying, but please.
Yes. Absolutely. I’m in for donating and helping in any way with PR/communications to facilitate crowd-funding efforts.
You have the patience of a saint (my eyes glazed over after I read “vegan” for the 10th time in your review) and the insight and clarity of an expert.
Thank you…
And yes, yes, yes!
You need to convince my wife of that! Honestly though, The film is so compelling it really needed a thorough accounting to folks who are confused ahve some frame of reference.
Thank-you so much for your review, and the time I’m sure it took to site all of the documentation that you put together. Unlike others I did read all of your blog. I must be honest I have never heard of you (no disrespect) but I did watch “What The Health” last night and it scared the heck out of me. Partly because I just bought some low sodium ham for sandwiches, that I was now afraid to eat along with the cheese lol. So today I was looking online for the counter point to the film, and there you were.
It is difficult to know what to believe, as far as health and eating anymore, because every few weeks someone claims to have the magic bullet, or now something is going to kill you, or is good for you.
I wholeheartedly agree that we should not be pumping all of these antibiotics and hormones into the animals we consume because, WE NOW HAVE A GREATER POTENTIAL EPODEMIC OF BUG RESISTANT DESIESE, THAT WILL BE GAME CHANGER TO HEALTHCARE ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Having traveled and worked in a lot of third world countries, it is interesting to me that the people that seem to have the largest ethical problem with killing and eating animals, have the luxury to do so. If I ask someone in a poor country if they have an ethical problem eating anything, if they are malnourished they would say no; science or no science. Same goes with cheese if you are fortunate enough to have a cow or a goat, you can eat that animal once but you can drink the milk, and eat the cheese over and over again. I have yet to see any harmful effects. I however have no scientific proof.
So now let the negative comments begin…because I’m sure someone will have a problem with this fact.
The comment- Elephants live 70-80 years and large cats live 12-15
If you are making the leap for a vegetable based diet accounting for that, how do you account for the people that feed their dogs, dog food, and other people feeding their carnivore dogs, vegetarian diets? Both dogs have the life span of a dog.
I am dyslexic something I was born with, and am pretty sure it had nothing to do with how much or how little meat my mother ate, or milk she drank, or cheese she ate.
And yes I would donate 🙂
If i wasnt struggling to pay for my food and rent, i’d support you with what i have left over! My exact thought after watching this “movie” was that we need someone to make a proper informative documentary based off of facts, experience and ..common sense. Not quackery.
Mo, this is support enough. Just the fact folks care and are generally willing to help. I’ll be honest, i’ve been blown away by what the outpouring has been.
Yes!! This is so important. Thanks Robb.
Yes, with caveats.
I want a documentary about ancestral approaches to food & health and regenerative agriculture that:
–notes the problems in nutrition science methodology that make diet-chronic disease relationships impossible to establish on a cause-effect level
–addresses the politics evenly (there are politics on both sides) and acknowledges the power relations inherent in telling other folks how to eat
–indicates that the best diet for any given individual varies from person to person and may vary within the same individual over time
–points to acquiring adequate nutrition as the primary reason for dietary guidance and respects all of the other cultural, economic and social aspects of food
–recognizes that along with dietary practices, agricultural practices–including how we raise animals for food–might vary with varying circumstances; there is also not “one farm to rule them all”: the goal is providing the humans who rely on those agricultural practices with long-term, equitable access to foods that nourish them, their traditions, and their communities
–when it must advocate, advocates for things that regular folks–not just a highly committed elite–can do
I nominate you to the production/board of directors!!!
Geez, though I agree 100% with everything you wrote…The effectiveness of films like Cowspiracy, What the Health, and propaganda in general is that they appeal to the least common denominator with a very simple message that “even a vegan” can understand. People want simple answers to more complex problems. Simple answers are also much easier to convey (and nowadays go viral).
Once you get into too much nuance, and deal with too many issues, you lose a large part of the audience. That’s what makes a “balanced” response much more difficult. You have to really break everything down to a “meme” level of understanding and then provide more detail with some nuance to keep people engaged.
Well put and too true.
I think Adele makes some incredibly salient points. But Stephen likewise points to the importance of a concise and repeatable message.
I’m sometimes dinged on my own verbosity in trying to get a lot of “nutrient-dense” info across in a presentation or conversation. But often I find I need to simplify it much more for laypeople and put more effort in the wording that will get across the idea in a cleaner, easier-to-remember sentence or two.
Hi there, saw your comment and couldn’t help but think of a film made by Michael Pollan called. “In Defense of Food”, and another four-part documentary series that he has available on Netflix called, “Cooked”. He touches on a lot of things that you mentioned above! Great watches.
Angelica, I came across your comment and want to thank you so much for those recommendations. I watched the first episode of Cooked and loved it. It actually made me emotional. I’m in the process of exploring my own relationship with food- especially meat- and this touched on so many things that speak to my inner truth. Thanks again for the recommendations. It was everything I needed to see and hear!
Yes
Count me in!
I’ve been reading your stuff for a long time, Rob (since 2010). You’re always super well grounded in research and you’re not afraid to evolve your POV as more information becomes available. I’d absolutely support a project you were behind. Thanks for being brave.
Thank you Louise! both for the kind words and the support.
Yes! I would support this project.
Yes!
Yes!! Our country needs to hear the other side. I’m so frustrated people are buying into this movie (What the Health).
Yes! Humans deserve to know the science and the truth.
Yes! I’m so tired and confused with all the misinformation. Thank you for the review.
Hell Yes Robb! Love that you are willing to share your knowledge and passion with all of us! Keep on keeping on! Proud that you live with us here in Reno. 🙂
Yes
Yes!!! Thanks Robb for sharing your knowledge and passion with all of us! Keep on keeping on! 🙂
Yes, for sure.
Hell Yes! Let’s make a movie!
Yes!!!
Yes! ethical omnivores rock
Yes , I would support it. Thank you for this review.
Yes!!
YES!
YES!!!!
Yes! Great review!
Yes
definitely yes. sounds like you might have a documentary project on your hands! another thing I would love to see is the nutritional implications of pursuing and extreme plant only versus animal only approach. though the science needs some development, I think optimal lies somewhere between the extremes.
Marty, you my friend will be in this thing talking nutrient density (If i have any say in the matter).
1,000% yes!!
Yes! I could find more than $100 for that project.
Yes!
Yes!!!!!
Yes!
Thank you for taking the time to review. My hubby is vegetarian and even he thought film was nonsense.
Yes but… as I learned with my last Road…euhhh…badtrip to paleo f(x) my 50$ Canadian must be like 5$US but it’s better than nothing.
It all helps!
I don’t consider myself to be an “ethical omnivore” although I do try to make conscientious decisions and purchase more ethical versions of meat when my budget allows.
I found your article when I first started watching What the Health (at the urging of my friend who changed her entire diet because of this film) because from minute one I could tell it was another Vegan scare piece.
Despite not being vegan or an actual “ethical omnivore” I would fully support that film because there needs to be more voices in the media to counteract all of the “scare tactic” vegan films.
There’s nothing ethical about eating animal products. That’s something people made up so they don’t have to feel bad about being selfish. It’s totally fine to choose whatever eating habit you believe in, but that phrase is BS. Call it what it is. The phrase is an oxymoron. It’s like saying “polite polluter….who only pollutes in certain areas” WTF. Don’t sugar coat it.
THAT is an opinion. Some people think there is nothing ethical about birth control, others know that it limits the population and unwanted pregnancies. What is becoming every more clear is some people (like you) are comfortable not just foisting your ideology on folks, but will work to change things at institutional and governmental levels to push your agenda. What this film did is provide the seed crystal for an ethical omnivore movement. You can dislike that, but it’s coming and the science is on our side, both from the health and sustainability perspectives
Robb, unfortunately it is a fact. Not only is it a fact, but you deflect from it by pointing to birth control, a completely unrelated issue.
First, let’s determine if animal moral value follows logically from your world view. I’m going to assume you believe humans have moral value. This is bootstrapping ethics for humans. Someone else can choose to bootstrap ethics for animals, and to reject their bootstrapping of animal ethics without simultaneously rejecting your own bootstrapping of human ethics, you need to use an argument which will only apply to animals in practice, but which in principle is consistent, because it would work for humans if it were applicable to them.
If you reject the argument once applied to humans, then within your world view, that argument per say, meaning by itself, is not valid.
There is no trait absent in animals which, if absent in humans, would cause us to deem ourselves valueless.
Therefore, without establishing the absence of such a trait in animals, we contradict ourselves by deeming animals valueless.
With this realization, animals now have moral value. There is no trait absent in animals which, if absent in humans, would cause us to consider anything short of non-exploitation to be an adequate expression of respect for human moral value.
Without establishing the absence of such a trait in animals, we contradict ourselves by considering anything short of non-exploitation (veganism) to be an adequate expression of respect for animal moral value.
Veganism is not a religion. It is philosophy founded in logical consistency.
Tim-
this is honestly one of if not THE most thought provoking and compelling arguments I’ve received on this topic. May I email you directly to talk more?
I would absolutely be happy to speak with you more on this subject. I apologize for the late response, life has been busy!
I’ll circle back soon!
Yes.
Yes yes and yes
YES!!!
Yes.
Big Yes from Portugal 🙂
I’m also a musician sound designer and sound engineer, and would love to give my contribution that way.
Best
Yes! I’d donate $100 in an instant to support a film that speaks the truth of ethical omnivorism and regenerative agriculture! A friend recently asked me if I knew of a film that debunked the vegan propaganda films of late. Seems her teenage son’s girlfriend cannot wait to get out of her house so she can become vegan. I nominate Lierre Keith to be the Executive Producer!
He missed the mark of the documentary. The documentary was not created to entice a battle between “vegan diet vs. “x-diet””. “What The Health” is a follow-up to “Cowspiracy”, so of course it is coming from a vegan perspective. Robb Wolf tries to make this into a “vegan vs. low-carb” diet, however. The film showcases researchers, nutritionists, and doctors who have discovered strong evidence through research and clinical practice that a vegan diet causes remarkable outcomes when it comes to preventing and reversing disease, as well as the economic and environmental benefits of the diet. Robb Wolf wants to create a battle between his preferred diet (LCHF) and a vegan diet, which is not what this documentary is about. The purpose of this documentary was to highlight the collusion and corruption of the government and major corporations and how and why they are keeping us sick. There is nothing controversial about a vegan diet. Who can argue that a diet of mostly whole fruits and vegetables (which is promoted in this documentary) is detrimental to our health? Robb Wolff is barking up the wrong tree and doesn’t deserve any sort of rebuttal. What he needs to do is create his own documentary showing how a low carb diet can reverse major health conditions, lower health care costs, save the environment, and prevent the needless deaths of billions and billions of innocent animals.
Thanks Barry, I’m working on it.
Someone has drunk too much KoolAid, since so much of the so-called “research” shared in the film was BS used to fearmonger to gain converts.
If the point of the movie was to point out the corruption of the government and big ag/big pharmacy then why would a vegan diet even need to be mentioned? That was not THE point of the movie but another mechanism to get more people roped in. The ironic thing is, as Robb pointed out several times, many of these concepts are agreed upon between the ancestral health world and the vegan world. However, vegans bring much more emotion into the picture along with extreme tactics and refuse to see evidence that you can have health eating animal products.
Have fun with your soy man titties Barry
Said the guy who drinks estrogen…from female…bovine.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU BARRY – THIS FILM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BECOMING A VEGAN OR VEGAN VS ANYTHING. ITS THE FOOD/DRUG INDUSTRIES AGAINST THE CONSUMER. Mr. Wolf’s assessment of this film is “fluff” – who cares what you think? You should spend more time caring more about people overall – with regards to just being HEALTHY.. and how corrupt the food industry is – period. And, no, I’m not a vegan – I eat my chicken and beef once in a while… but am more disgusted by the CORRUPTNESS. FOCUS MORE ON THAT, MR. WOLF, AND LESS ON PICKING A FIGHT with the good guys who have no choice but to try and inform the public what has been hidden for years…. WHY DO YOU THINK CANCER HAS RISEN OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS??? WITH ALL THE RESEARCH AND FUNDRAISERS… WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE STILL SICK? My uncle, who ate, low carb diet, ran 5 miles every morning, had steaks, bacon, eggs almost every other day of his life… yet for some strange reason – despite the fact that he appeared physically fit — developed Throat / esophageal cancer….. and passed 2 years ago. People were shocked — he never drank nor smoked and could bench press double his weight… my point is,,,, he was a strong man… but his diet – now it seems, had everything to do with his cancer. Why cant we all just stick together ….
Rebecca- The financial and economic underpinning of the SICK-care system which we are all largely trapped is at the center of my work, if you do a bit of investigating you can find those details easily. What both you and Barry appear to have missed is a massive amount of inaccuracies have been presented as fact via this film.
That is a problem for several reasons, not the least of which if if the big food, pharma etc wanted to discredit all elements of the movie, they need only point out the glaring factual omissions. Then, they can just wave everything else all away. I mentioned time and again where I absolutely DID agree with the film, and this was largely pertaining to the very issues you raised.So, if you want to actually have a platform to do the things you are suggesting, one must have a message grounded in good science, not vegan propoganda. By committing the lies by omission that Kip has done here he has undermined the messages that really does matter.
Well said Barry!
Yes yes yes!
YES! I will donate to the movie.
Yes dude yes! Give the Mind Pump guys a cameo!
Yes!
Yes!
Thanks for the review!
I would absolutely donate $100. I find the lack of representation in the health community appalling, as if being a vegan or living on bologna and hot dogs are the only choices we have.
Exactly.
WOW! DUDE! You put a tonne of work into that review. Thanks a bunch for the time you dedicated to that and for the work you do! I truly appreciate you!
Mike C.
Ethical Omnivore
Nailed it Robb!!!
Ahhhhh, YES!!!
Yup 🙂
Thanks for taking the time to review the What the Health movie. I have actually not finished watching it yet, but was sharing it a little with my friend, who is def. omnivore, and her daughter went vegan after watching the WTH movie about a month ago. The claims in the movie about eggs and meat causing diabetes were alarming, as we raise our own chickens, and i eat eggs every day. I would support you if you made a balanced movie with the TRUTH scientifically backed by modern studies supporting a healthy diet for all mankind. It is so confusing these days with all the personal agendas out there to know what is the right thing to do/say/eat.
Yes! And I just joined the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund. Thanks for the recommendation.
THANK YOU!!
Yes!
Yes.
I’m a Stanford trained M.D. in Maryland…..an internist with additional board certifications as a lipidologist and hypertension specialist. I have an advantage……I do bloodwork on everyone!!…..sophisticated biomarkers of cardiac risk including insulin levels etc…and see major advantages to lower carbohydrate eating whether Paleo-esque or even nutritional ketosis.
Lou- thanks for this, our clinic here in Reno appears to be on a similar track.
Do you deny that LDL is a valid marker of CVD?
There is growing recognition that LDL is not one single thing There are several different kinds of LDL, which have significant differences in size, density, and relation to arterial inflammation. It’s rather like having many species within a genus. Triglycerides are one kind of LDL, and are thought to be a better marker than the blanket term LDL. Two people with the same LDL reading could have markedly different CVD risks or realities if one has high triglycerides and the other has low triglycerides.
There are better predictive markers than crude first-order LDL readings. First up: ratios of Total Cholesterol to HDL, and of LDL:HDL.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2747394/
Apolipoproteins are gathering increasing scrutiny as a potentially better marker of CVD. http://jalm.aaccjnls.org/content/1/2/214
Inflammation is correlated with CVD. It can be measured by the levels of C-Reactive Protein.
drweil
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/109/21_suppl_1/II-2
Overall, it looks very much ch as if LDL readings are only one marker of CVD risk, and should be approached as a first-order assessment rather than an absolute.
Yes.
Yes. I would be in for at least $1,000.
Yes.
YES!!!!!!
I’ll donate more if you need
Yes.
And thanks Rob! Your investment in this critical review is much appreciated, so valuable amongst the ad nauseum praise and sharing of this kind of media.
Does anyone know of any short, smart video’s that lay out some of the critical response to Kip and Keegan’s films, or similar vegan media?
There are bits and pieces, but not one cogent film, no. Not yet.
I watched “What the Health” and thought what the FUCK is going on? As a resident physician who already had a patient bring up the film and try to talk me out of a ketogenic diet……….Thank-you. & Yes
Yeth. Motht thertainly.
I will support the film if you only promote seal milk, turkey eggs, eating large marine and land carnivores.
Seems everyone here is oblivious to the pain they cause to plants by eating mainly herivores flesh milk and eggs. We should eating carnivious flesh as ethical omnivores. I’ve been doing this for over 7 years.
Wake up to yourselves.
Yes, would definitely support that cause.
Thanks for taking the time to write a review Robb. One issue the ethical or mindful omnivorous movement faces is presenting evidence that grass fed is indeed better for health. I am aware of Joe Robinson’s work on nutrition differences between CAFO and grass fed, but we need more studies such as the following where grassfed bison presented no increase in atherogenic risk (using several biomarkers) and CAFO beef did. I would hypothesize that grass fed would win every time but the research isn’t there.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23602247
Same goes for longitudinal studies of mindful omnivores vs vegetarian and vegan. There is data suggesting pescatarians fair just as well, but no data on individuals who eat mindfully and consume grass fed.
P.S. I am in the cardiovascular physiology research field (currently post doc) so if you know of anyone who would be interested in such a study, my lab may be interested and when I get my own lab I will definitely be interested in researching this area.
Thanks again!
Yes
YES.
There’s all of this great information out there about ethical ominvory. The problem is that is hasn’t been consolidated into one easy to digest package. There’s no single book or single film that really, truly says it all. There are some that stand out, like Michael Pollan’s work and the work of Dan Barber, but there is no definitive case for ethical omnivory that shows the long-term implications of a diet without animals, both from a human health and environmental health perspective.
Someone needs to make “THE” film from the perspective of the ethical omnivore – our version of Cowspiracy or Forks Over Knives. That’s not even me saying the “Paleo is great” documentary, because it’s so, so, SO much more than that.
I’d chip as much money as I could toward seeing that documentary get made. I’m also willing to bet us folks at Paleo f(x)™ would be happy to support the effort in whatever way we can.
Yes, yes, a hundred times yes. Thank you so much for this review.
Aloha Robb, i definitely have some critiques of the movie as well as some major critiques of your correlative, and sometimes it seems biased style review.
I mostly wanted to criticize your criticism of dr. gregers nutritionfacts.org having an untruthful name in comparison to the content it releases
i have been through the entire website quite a few times and the method of delivery on evidence based nutrition is pretty straight forward, and literally every claim in all of his videos are sited below the video with the evidence being pretty straight forward
in comparison to your claims promoting saturated fat being entirely in the opposite direction of what the majority of science shows relating excess intake of fat including saturated fat to type 2 diabetes
so in turn it would make sense to have a website that relays evidence based nutrition titled nutritionfacts.org
I apprecaite your comment donovan. I completely disagree with it, but sincerely appreciate you taking the time.
Donovan That was the oddest part of Wolf’s childish, I-wanna-eat-dead-things-and-make- excuses-for-it, nonsense. It is sooooo easy to find Greger’s plentiful citations and the scientific research cited by What the Heath in general. These are real doctors, treating real patients, not some washed up blogger ignoring heart disease and environmental decimation to make a few bucks. They are not hiding the data…it is the BBQed elephant (or woolly mammoth) in the room that keeps fools from seeing it. I guess if someone uses the word “underpinnings” and “confounders” and such they can spew any biased and unsupported lies they want.
Yes, for sure!
Great impartial article as usual Robb. You’re the first guy I started following when it came to nutrition back in 2008 and my wife who has Lupus has been in remission since that time thanks to you!
I would love to see something that speaks not only to agriculture but wild eating as well such as hunting, fishing, and edible wild plants something we do a lot of in MO. How does keeping to native plants and animals help the environment, soil health, etc. This and regenerative agriculture is a complex topic and could probably be broken down into several documentaries 🙂
I know you will keep the religious (vegan, etc) points of view out of it but it will be refreshing to have an unbiased ( as much as possible) point of view with solid evidence. Thanks again for all you do!
I’ll noodle on this but I’ll be honest, as important as this is the impact vs properly addressing say factory farming…tough to square those two. An although the vegans go after hunters, but their crosshairs are on the food production system. They are trying to ban the use of animals on public lands for grazing. I believe THAT is what we need to focus on.
Yes!
Yes! I’ve been incredulous listening to Neil Barnard…it’s so negligent and dangerous and selfish to potentially persuade thousands, if not more, of people to suddenly become mortally afraid of all animal products.
Dr. Barnard treats and cures patients with heart disease every day. Where are your creds?
YES!!! $100 at least!
Yes, absolutely. I would love to see a well-rounded documentary featuring ethical omnivores that focuses on local agriculture, and the similar improvements in health that many people experience as such. Fresh and Food Inc. started the ball rolling but I didn’t feel like they really got as in-depth into the biological and ecological reasons why integrated, biological farms are so critical to our food future. There are several nutritional circles you could find ample investigative material in – Paleo circles, AIP circles, GAPS circles, WAPF circles, etc.
My family has been doing the GAPS protocol for about 8 months now and has found tremendous healing for a wide array of health conditions we were dealing with. There are a lot of very common, persistent misconceptions about GAPS and what it looks like, but there are a mind-blowing number of success stories involving families, some of whom who were vegan, coming to GAPS and seeing their health improve. If anything, learning about Paleo first and then GAPS has made us more aware/involved in local agriculture, food sustainability, decentralized infrastructures, and animal welfare than we ever were before.
I love the quote you have from Joel Salatin. We’re all biologically different with different nutritional needs based on our macro- and micro-environments. Let us raise and eat what our families need and we’ll make sure that anyone with different needs has the foods they believe in.
Yes, just without the bullshit. Include the actual studies and facts.
Yes, although I worry unpacking such a dense subject in the timeframe of a documentary begets the kind of one-sided perspective you see in movies like WTH
If the film needs to be 3 hours, it’ll be 3 hours. We only need to reach the smart people to make this work.
Robb, thanks for the great work (for years)
I would agree that there is much to unpack, and was thinking that perhaps rather than a documentary, what about a series akin to Penn & Teller’s Bullsh!t?
Take a topic, dive deep, look at the research and explore how the main stream view has changed over time and why.
With the MSM people only really get the headlines and even with an overwhelming abundance of evidence to the contrary, they still fall back on “conventional wisdom”.
I would totally support a documentary (or series) of this type. Here’s an idea, perhaps it could be called “Wired to Eat”. Just a thought. Run with that if you like it. 😉
That is actually a fantastic idea…could actually do a deeper dive on any given topic, but the series would have an overall theme. THANKS!!
Yes! I’m so tired of the vegan scare tactics and presenting their solutions as the only ethical ones.
Yes, absolutely.
Now, if you do one of those nifty, tiered donation layouts (like Kickstarter) and have the option to hob knob with some upper crust folks yourself, Robb? Well, time to take another mortgage out on the house!
Thank you so much for such a thorough review! I would absolutely donate to your film!!
YES!
Great Reveiw! Thank you for standing up to the vegan craziness! Go Savory! Saving the planet one acre at a time!
Yes!
Incredible review – as all your ‘stuff’ always is!
Yes!
Yes
Yes! Also quick question: you mention the chronically overfed West, and the fact that eating of any sort seems to cause some arterial hardening. I take this to mean that even if one is not obese, does not have diabetes or other symptoms of hypertension, there are some adverse consequences of “overeating.” How do you define overeating? I’m a fit, trim crossfitter, but I’ve always eaten way more than the vast majority of my peers. Should I moderate my intake? I know you’re a busy man, but if you have a link or some other lead for further research, I’d be grateful.
Lastly, I’ve been following and reading you for years. Thanks for fighting the good fight. And thanks for going beyond the immediate discussion of nutritional info by explaining your methodology. Does wonders to raise everyone’s literacy in the scientific method so they can understand correlation v causation, etc, and arm themselves for future inquiry.
Ewan- Tough to answer concisely. But if you do not have signs and symptoms of insulin resistance, likely good to go. Thank you for the kind words!
Yes!
Yes!
Yes, oh please, yes. We need to get the info out there, really concise, thorough and covering all the angles. I will be keeping an ear out for calls for a crowdfunder on the podcast and twitter.
Absolutely, yes!
Yes
Good article mate. I feel for you
Put me down for a decent chunk for the movie idea
You could probably do with a foundation and a donate now button – I can connect you with some folks who can assist in the process if you don’t want to become a fully fledged foundation but enjoy many of the same benefits – a lot cheaper to set up
That’d be fantastic! thanks!
1000% yes.
Ironically, I started my career journey wanting to do films before ending up as a software engineer. Now after a few years on the nutrition/medical side of the fence, I’m starting to respect just how much modern media shaped everyone’s opinions in this industry.
I’m thankful for What the Health showcasing just how powerful a well-shaped film can change opinions if it ultimately motivates us to do likewise.
Get super-serious on this one, Robb — make it happen!
Yes
I so appreciate your candid review. YES!!!
I’m a teacher and our budget is razor thin, but YES, YES, YES!
Yes!!!
Yes indeed
Yes.
Yes! I don’t have a lot of funds but I could come up with something. LCHF has healed me.
Yes! I’d for sure donate to that!
Great review, Robb! So many need to hear the facts with an unbiased approached. I went on YouTube to look for reviews of this doc as well. Apparently card-toting vegans are the only ones doing video reviews. I didn’t see one (out of 10 or so) that questioned the ethics/one-sidedness of the research model presented in What The Health. All they discussed was how amazing the doc was and how everyone should watch…
Yes. I watched this last night and got very confused. Thank you for the clarification.
Deb
YES!!
Yes. Please add me to the list when requesting funds.
I watched this film yesterday and got so depressed about living on our planet today. Glad it’s only temporary and that Eternity is exactly Eternity! God created certain animals for humans to consume so I will continue to eat Paleo. I also will continue to be pleased with the good healthy blood and cholesterol results I received today (and will continue to receive during check ups) as a result of eating Paleo. Thanks for the time and effort put into this piece.
no, for two reasons.
1. this proposed documentary of yours would be in response to the vegan claims made in What The Health. your theoretical target audience would ostensibly be everyone who had the ability to watch said doc. your realistic audience would be vegans, regenerative ancestral nutrition advocates, and nutrition documentary fans. the overwhelming majority of Americans would not be interested in such a film, and of those said uninterested Americans the overwhelming majority of them (if either forced to watch or randomly stumbling upon such a film) would not get behind such a concept as it would infringe upon their finances and conveniences. in essence, your theoretical response doc would be akin to pole vaulting a mouse turd.
2. I would much rather have you attempt a documentary that debunks Cowspiracy, one that makes the claim that the mass meat production on Earth is somehow a sustainable way of feeding 8 billion people. THAT I would donate money towards. assuming, of course, that I would be refunded my donation once you fall flat on your face.
one thing I’ve learned from being paleo and vegan at different times in my life is that if I were somehow forced into having to eat meat, I could survive. same goes for being forced into veganism. if what Cowspiracy claims is true, that we are at this moment at the tipping point of irreparable climate change due to the past and ongoing destruction at the hands of the meat industry, the claims made by What The Health will be the least of your (our) worries
Steven- Thanks for this, really helps, particularly on point #1. As to point #2 i did not do a good job unpacking that but at least half the film would address the sustainability issues, climate change claims etc.
Thank you again!
Fortunately Steven, Cowspiracy was a bunch of hyperbola, so no need to worry yourself so much. Here’s my Quora response to the question “How Accurate is Cowspiracy?” https://www.quora.com/How-accurate-is-the-movie-Cowspiracy/answers/16079158 plus another review I wrote: https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/la-chefs-movie-review-cowspiracy-truth-or-propaganda/
yes
Yes!! I made the mistake of watching this film with my 10 year old daughter in the room. Now she’s afraid she will get sick. I used this opportunity to talk about nutritional choices and she actually wants to try paleo low/carb for a couple weeks. Maybe I can salvage this situation after all!
Hells yeah
Yes. I’m in for $50 at least.
Yes!
Yep!
ALL CAPS YES!!
Yes, Can’t wait. We need a film like you described. To push back against the horrendous recommendations put out by the AHA lately, for example. It would be nice to touch on Biodynamic agriculture.. Are you familiar with Rudolph Steiner?
https://youtu.be/GUIDxIKBqLA
I love this man’s ideas and I’m sure you will too if you aren’t already familiar. I saw you at the NTA conference recently and it was great. Thanks.
Yes!
Yes, and i don’t even subscribe to a diet per se. I’d just be glad to see someone offer a counterpoint to this egregiously biased documentary which i stumbled upon on Netflix. Even i, a ‘non-zealot’ for any side of the diet debate, saw the B.S. pretty quickly. My search for a counterpoint is what brought me here.
Hell yes.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this post. It is very important and I am sure was hard to make the choice of putting a bullseye on your back.
Yes, and
Honestly,
I’ve seen and read so many articles about nutrition over the last 10 or so years I don’t know what to believe anymore. Many agendas, research institutes and experts cause a very incoherent picture for the average consumer like me.
I’m heavily involved in the crossfit community but don’t agree with all aspects of it. Many diets, many visions, many different approaches to various topics such as marketing, training and nutrition, just to name a few.
While each stakeholder has their own agenda and I see a lot of controversial views I do believe in one approach that many “diets” seem to support: Eat local, seasonal, non altered (GMO), unprocessed whole foods. Make it from scratch and avoid processed nutrition as good as possible. I grew up in Switzerland and we learned how to cook early on. This, along with education seems to be a promising path.
Thank you Robb for taking time to write such a detailed review. I haven’t understood all of it but it’s certainly appreciated.
Yes
Yes
When he said sugar doesn’t make a big difference to our health I had to turn this off! Thanks for your review!
I watched this film and found it to have some good points and some not so good. the first 20 min seemed like a sugar ad to me. I did also find your commentary on the film to be similarly biased. there has been much research on the benefits of a largely plant based diet, eg. china study . there has also been new research on the benefits of having more animal fats in the diet especially in realtion to certain digestive issues and blood sugar imbalances. I don’t like that you seem to group all vegans together using words like “crazy” and ‘religion’ to describe food choices. I am vegan, and a nutritionist, and have worked with mainly omnivores as my clients, and see many heath issues related to overconsumption and lack of plant foods/fiber. and have seen most clients improve with a more balanced approach. I have also been a part of many discussions relating to meat/non meat eating and ill tell you one thing, the fanaticism is just as strong with the meat eaters. so please lets not lump people together just because of their food choices. the main issue I see with our health here is our overconsumption of processed, refined foods and abandonment of whole natural foods diet. balance in my eyes Is the key.
Veronica- Did you miss every scientific citation I unpacked and how outright lies were told here? Ok, i get it, i’m a mean cranky person, but are you really going to put your emotional response to that ahead of what happened here scientifically? As to the China Study, that got unpacked in this process. The claims there were largely dismantled here…which tells me you really do not understand the details of that research either. I’d recommend following up with this: https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Y. E. S.
Yes, please.
YES, YES, YES!
Yes, I would even help in producing such a film since I´m a filmmaker too and care about this subjects. Thanks for the review, it clarified many of my concerns on the film to get a more balanced view on the subject. Thanks for being so objective and informed on the subject and congrats on your book, I will have a look on it. So what would be a good diet for starters? what would you recommend? There seems to be so much controversy on the subject. For me it seems quite clear that eating un-processed food is a good start, and having a wide plant base, can help, but I´m not a vegan, never been one, nor planning to become one soon.
Alex- thanks for this and i will reach out to you re the film. As to eating: You are 90% there. Start and maintain a largely whole, unprocessed food intake. Play with your macros a bit. Do you feel bast at higher or lower carb intake. Get out in the sun as much as possible, sleep early and much, have a kick ass community. DONE.
Ha! Well, not sure about the money for the doc, though I feel it would be a more accurate piece, I will say that your article was very refreshing. I was getting quite upset by the blatant skewing of facts in WTH that I couldn’t even make it to the 30 minute mark. I needed to know that I wasn’t alone… and here you were! First thing I’ve ever read of yours. Thank you for just doing the basic research and providing a clear rebuttal. I’ll sleep easier tonight… not afraid of the food lurking in my kitchen. Thanks!
And now that I think of it… $50 isn’t that much.
Hells
To
The
YAAAASSSS!!!!
Yes! It would be so helpful to have a well produced film to reference as an alternative to the constant flow of vegan screeds!
Yes!
And a mention on how things run in Europe too, for us Europeans…. we always watch what things go on in the US but are never really sure if it’s the same in Europe too? Or better regulated? Or worse?
Thanks for taking the time to write this, very important read.
I am a pensioner on a limited income so couldn’t afford to give money but would back this all the way.
Just rent it when it’s out!
Yes.
YES!
Yes!
Btw – This movie has just been released in Australia! Can’t wait to see it! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XV-dBEG1Fc
Yes yes yes. Would definitely donate. I agree that The Perfect Human Diet was amazing. It changed our perspective and leaned us towards Paleo. But it hasn’t gone mainstream
Yes!
And thank you for the review. Moments after the documentary started I was itching to turn it off because I found it infuriating. But then I told myself I should also indulge in information that is contrary to my beliefs. I was disappointed that the “science” and “facts” seems unlikely to be supported or accurate. I felt obliged to look for the movies sources and came up empty handed. Then it occurred to me that one of my Paleo experts must have an opinion about the film – and Voila! Thanks for saving me all the research time.
Heather
Yes!! Thanks for all you do!!
Yes
Hell YES!!!
Yes
Done! Just donated to the farm to consumer site and happy to do it. Thank you so much for such a well written review. I was told I had to watch it and 15 min in I thought it seemed very familiar to Cowspiracy. Imagine my surprise to find out it was made by the same people. Thanks again Robb! Been following you since the beginning of your podcast.
Thanks Pam!!
Yes! What the Health churned my stomach and I’m only halfway through it.
Duh…yes of course.
Robb, Yes!, and defense fund joined.
And thanks for being a role model for civil discussion. Maybe, it’s just me but it seems that across many different topics, even if you knew nothing about the topic you could get a good idea where the best evidence lies by seeing who is consumed by anger and/or can hardly string a coherent series of thoughts together (perhaps due to nutrient deficiencies) versus those who are serene and civil. I think all of us who want to see better health information put out to those who are open to it can learn from your attitude to be an example for the people around us.
Thanks Vince! I have my days of irrationality…I just try to get that out while at Jiu-jitsu!
Yes.
YES YES YES
YES!
YES! Thank you for all you do and loved reading this piece.
Thanks so much for this review!
All the information out there is so confusing, especially when it’s presented in such absolutes – I appreciate all the links to research that supports opposite facts, and all the opinions 🙂
Yes. You are the man. Thanks for this!
Yes!
And thank you for this review! I’ll be passing it along to many 🙂
Yes!
Wow, it’s so obvious you’re looking at this like a lawyer would, dissecting facts simply to support YOUR lifestyle and what you want to see, probably because you don’t want to admit the truth like most carnivores for fear of feeling like you should change your lifestyle. Just a few issues with your arguments
you say “But, if a healthy, not-so-nasty alternative (pastured meat) were to gain traction (which it has) that could pose a problem for the folks who approach veganism as a religion.” Yes, while this is healthier and “kinder” to the animals, it’s not at all better for the environment as it uses up MORE resources and impedes on MORE land that used to be for forests (which negate CO2 emissions) or wild animals (which balance surrounding ecology).
“best solution (a grain based vegan diet)” actually no, the best solution recommended by the Dr. you were referring to is PLANT based. You strategically put grain based because grains pose health issues, yes, but the Dr. was suggesting PLANT based is the best solution and no, while they may overlap, not the same thing. It seems like you try to prove your points for profit, while some vegan businesses might have to consider that, most of the intent is based on their VALUES & wanting to help people, animals & the environment or better yet, choosing not to contribute to their destruction.
“Despite a clearly sicker population with regards to obesity and type 2 diabetes, heart disease rates are declining, due mainly to decreased smoking (the smoking decrease is powerful enough to offset even the increases in diabetes, at least to some extent). If the claims about meat consumption contributing to heart disease and cancer were true we would NOT see trends like those depicted above.” Do you honestly think that if everyone gave up meat & dairy products, and ate a plant-based diet you would not see MAJOR decreases in disease trends? I feel sorry for you if you’re that stubborn and/or in denial.
It’s sad that you have to insult people passionate about not contributing to meat-consumption because they fiercely believe in not being cruel to animals, not using up resources unnecessarily, and because of the havoc it wreaks on our bodies (not to mention abhorrent substances that are ingested). Have you ever thought vegans might act righteous bc they ARE righteous? Some of the smartest, wisest, most revolutionary people (in my opinion) have all emphasized the need to refrain from eating animals (Einstein, Gandhi, Da Vinci, Steve Jobs) it’s not a coincidence, although I do understand many people put down vegans because they haven’t reached a place where they understand just how horrific it is to support the meat industry-the way it is today.
You’re absolutely entitled to choose your diet, but don’t try to undermine people genuinely passionate about doing what they think is right (which overall, is extremely hard to argue with).
Yes Katie, guilty as charged. I dissected facts, and for the most part the film was left wanting in that category. And beyond that, they actually lied. We saw this in the last political cycle in which everyone was so ideologically entrenched they ignored FACTS, opting instead for a religious degree of support for their chosen camps. This left us with Trump and Clinton as options. THIS is what happens when people like you put emotions ahead of facts.
Yes! I would totally donate! Would love to see this happen.
I would love some non-bias info on food and nutrition in a movie that is made by someone who understands science and research who hasn’t made up their mind.
Hey man I think you are all missing the big point. All the negative reviews are trying to do is defend the animal industry as there isn’t enough evidence to back some of the plant-based diet claims against it. Nevertheless you are forgetting to talk about the benefits of a plant based diet independent or not of the harm that an omnivorous diet can or won’t produce. Also you are not talking about the ridiculously obvious lobbying going on in America’s government… its sad to see how people miss the point and still try to defend their ways of being with everything it takes ..
https://youtu.be/ZjjgoeD-SaI
did you “read” the article????
Yes, count me ALL in for funding a thoughtful, insightful and substantive movie about regen ag, human’s co-evolution with grazing animals and plants and insects and most exciting a vision for the future. I’m certain we have permaculture enthusiasts, sustainable husbandry experts and medical experts who would provide one helluva fun romp of a rollercoaster ride down the Ancestral paleo / keto True Stories that could open viewers’ minds and hearts via science and anecdotal stories. You know the old venn diagram humor, eh? Where Sports Fans occupy one circle, Non-Sports Fans occupy the other, and Guacamole sits in the overlapping sliver? I imagine that within 10-20 years time – we might be able to put the Nationalized, Industrializ Corporate Food System of Today in the center, and call it a day. Gotta point fingers somewhere, so much easier than taking accountability for FDA/EPA corruption and collusion re: subsidies and Big Ag/BigPharma. If vegans can drop their mic, walk off the pulpit and stop preaching veganism for a healthier planet, and begin thinking in shades of gray – they will understand the powerful force ruminants have to sequester carbon, reverse disease and restore ecology. Cows farting methane (Cowspiracy) and causing rainforest destruction is so superficial and myopic, it hurts. Decentralization will save us, I agree with you. But first – education and research and awareness campaigns have to prosper. I love the way you redirected your followers to vote with their comments, you are so savvy.
Thanks for your incredibly thoughtful and thorough review, Robb!!!!! Now I don’t have to experience the pain of watching this movie. And now back to my plant-based keto diet. 🙂 We must reinvent. We must see hybrid options. Those of us who live in the “gray” territory vs black and white may find the Cognitive Bias Wheel a REALLY, REALLY cool tool to breakdown other people’s flawed arguments: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*71TzKnr7bzXU_l_pU6DCNA.jpeg
Yes!!
I did not know that you reviewed WTH before I attempted to watch it. I may have made it 15 minutes in before turning it off and googling “what the health robb wolf”. Ha! I smelled bs and needed someone like you to confirm. Thanks for devoting yourself to this area health and wellness.
Yes I most certainly would donate to your film idea.
***correction…to this area OF health and wellness
I’ll get on that, thanks!
I just want to point out that the screenshot of the Facebook Messenger posted at the end of your article (https://robbwolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Interview-Request.png) that you use to showcase your “ignored” interview request shows clearly that your message was never seen. In other words, your request was not rejected, not ever ignored; it simply never reached Kip Anderson. Guess you are not in his Friends circle? With my own Privacy settings, I know that random messages sent from strangers are hidden from me. There would be a little icon (checkmark) below your message if it had ever been seen.
Well, being a “public person” he should ahve his settings for global, I do. Additionally, he is now clearly aware of this post and has still not reached out to me for clarifications. What i said was “he did not respond” , not any of what you articulated.
Thank you so much I greatly appreciate this article very helpful…….
Yes!
Yes! Wired to eat has changed my life in 3 months -thank you
Everyone wants animals to be treated better.
Meat to be clean of any chemicals.
True nutrition.
A balanced diet, paleo, keto, vegan – they all work just depends what is for you. Don’t judge others
YES!
Great review article, the movie had a number of good points but completely lost me due to the number of things the sensationalized of ignored valid counter arguments.
Unfortunate bc Americans truly do need to reduce meat consumption and increase veggie intake.
Their points about corporate collusion is/are outstanding. Which really makes the shoddy science unfortunate as it could largely undermine that point.
“Garth’s reply…which spends the opening salvo largely trying to discredit Denise due to “lack of credential” (that’s what we generally call a Straw Man attack) while also playing the game of somehow acknowledging her brilliance?? It’s odd. Really odd. If you notice my interaction with people I have NEVER raised the question of “qualifications.” Does the person know the material, yes or no? In this day where there is easy access to any topic”
There are a few things wrong with this paragraph. First of all, there is a certain irony here: *you* are trying to discredit Dr. Davis by claiming that he is engaging in logical fallacies. That is 10 times more severe of an accusation than pointing to someone’s credentials when you’re establishing context. Pointing to lack of credentials is not a straw man argument either, by the way. A straw man argument is a debate tactic that serves to deceive the audience into thinking you are counter-arguing a point, when in fact you have misrepresented a position (you built a straw man to attack). You probably meant it was an ad-hominem attack (it isn’t that either, though).
The second part is also interesting. There would be no reason for you to raise the question of qualifications, since you are not formally qualified yourself. You’re in no position to do so. You’re also naive to think that everyone has access to such information; a lot of it is behind paywalls. And even if we did have access to it all, that doesn’t mean we are properly trained to evaluate the data. Clearly, most of us– and I’m sure most of your readers — aren’t.
There is a lot more to discuss here. Some of your criticisms being valid (the documentary is way too one-sided, and should have featured non-vegan experts like Dr. David Katz and Dan Buettner). A lot of it is fluff, though. It’s good to critique these types of documentaries (and IMO, their Facebook page has a lot more questionable content than the documentary itself that’s worth attacking) but we should do so from an impassioned perspective and I could sense that emotions really clouded your judgment at a few different occasions here.
Still, these discussions are important and I hope to see someone (a qualified someone) enlighten us as to where you went wrong here when it comes to the science.
My answer is ‘no’, by the way: I don’t believe in ‘ethical’ omnivory. That’s an ideology of its own, which makes little more sense than deontological veganism.
You are spot on with regards to my treatment of Garth…I largely did what he was trying to do with Denise Minger. I appreciate you pointing that out and was not sure anyone would even catch it. I completely disagree with your straw man assessments, but we can leave that where it is. I do sincerely appreciate your time and thoughtful comments.
Robb,
First of all, I applaud you for taking that criticism like a champ and admitting your fault. I rarely see that happen online and whenever I do I make sure to mention it, because we need more of it. I hope that serves as a form of apology towards Dr. Davis as well. He’s a really good guy in my view and deserves to be treated fairly (not like ZDoggMD did to him recently).
Secondly, I’m not sure what you’re referring to re. “straw man assessments”. I was sharing my thoughts and I’m not sure where you see straw man arguments. I perfectly understand that I might have sounded a bit too critical, but I must say the following: If it looks like I dismissed you as a valid source of nutrition information, I apologize. I am sure you have some expertise, but I had never heard of you before this article, and I did a quick PubMed search with your name and couldn’t find any research papers to your name. So, I assumed you were simply a blogger.
After looking at your page some more, I see you do have some qualifications, more than the average nutrition blogger to be sure, but at the end of the day– and this is no insult to you and your work– I’m always looking for the most qualified people I can find to advise me on any issue I’m not an expert on. I think having done nutritional sciences research specifically makes one much more likely to be qualified. I try to base what I know on the doctors and researchers who have been doing this stuff for decades and the Registered Dieticians whose job it is to sift through all the (often confusing) data and make it understandable to us. Of course, human bias and greed being unavoidable, even they should not be fully trusted and one should approach every topic with some skepticism. From what I’ve just seen of you, it appears that you, like me, are more likely than others to be able to do this. So, even though we fundamentally disagree on veganism and I’m sure a few other things, I sincerely wish you the best and hope your film project pans out. I think that if you want that film to be truly great and as unbiased as possible, you willl learn a lot in the process, and perhaps come to appreciate plant-based diets a little more.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply Etienne. Best to you too.
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely!
Thank you. And yes!!!
Thank you for the excellent review.
I am halfway through the Documentary
but I had to stop to smoke 10 cigarettes. Sorry, I meant eat two eggs with a side of salad.
YES!
$1000 if I can be a part of it.
I would submit that one needs to take the comments of a Paleo-committed scientist with at least as much of a grain of salt as vegan-committed physicians. To criticize the makers of the film because they are vegan is a ludicrous circular argument. Physicians and scientists who are convinced of the health benefits of a plant-based diet aren’t likely to eat animal-based products. Duh. That’s just like claiming that a physician who advocates smoking cessation Is unfairly biased because they do not smoke. And although I am myself biased because I am a physician and vascular surgeon, I would submit that the physicians interviewed in “What The Health” are more qualified to comment on health matters due to their lifelong training on the human body than is the author of this blog, who is a research scientist. And Robb Wolf has a pretty strong profit motive to attempt to debunk any plant-based diet science, as his entire livelihood depends on it. You might as well take your advice from the dairy and meat industry, as the motives are the same.
I don’t have a horse in this race, but I am intrigued enough by the findings in “What The Health” to make a go at switching from my carnivorous diet to a plant-based one.
If you’re looking for some real scientific evidence, read through the following review of the literature from Kaiser Permanente, the largest Health Maintenance Organization on the planet (and my former employer):
“Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/#!po=68.9394
Unlike for-profit healthcare organizations, Kaiser’s goal is to save money by keeping their members healthy, rather than make money off of chronic disease management.
I’ve always been put off by the constant controversy and lack of clear-cut nutritional guidelines in the health care community; but, as I am now discovering, there IS good science out there supporting a plant-based diet. I don’t really want to admit that, because I sure do love my meat, cheese, and butter, but the facts speak for themselves.
But ignore what I have to say and what Robb has to say. Look at the references yourself and come up with your own conclusions.
I guess you missed the 4-5 times that I said “Clearly, here are my biasses”. This appeal to authority is fascinating, and suggesting Kaiser has cracked the nut on this via an exclusively plant based diet is itself short sighted. They also have goofy standards on cholesterol, diabetes management and a host of other ailments. What you are insinuating is there is one way to do this. I am say there are multiple routes to health, vegan being one of the options. Nothing they ahve done comes close to this: https://robbwolf.com/2012/04/16/paleo-diet-risk-assessment/
I’m not appealing to authority, merely to science. I cite the Kaiser paper merely as a handy place to find actual scientific references supporting a plant-based diet. I’m sure there are many paths to good health, but plant-based and non-plant-based are mutually exclusive options. Purely from a dietary perspective, it seems one would have to choose one or the other.
I apologize that I have missed some of your comments by not taking the time to read all of the over-300 comments on this controversial topic.
Well, my nutritional perspective is similar to my political perspective in that I am a centrist Libertarian and find laudable characteristics from both ends of the political spectrum. Similarly, I do not see nutrition as a religious process in which there is only “one true path.” I think it’s ridiculous to say it has to be either or. More to the point there are very specific claims being made here (meat CAUSES diabetes for example) which cannot be supported by the available literature, nor anthropological observations (Inuit, Aché etc). I appreciate that the link goes to a number of scientific papers, but that does not give them a pass with regards to veracity.
Yes. I have felt for a long time that it is unfortunate a meat-based diet or paleo diet is quickly dismissed in global food policy circles because it is not easy or is currently a bit elitist. Why won’t we accept that the world could be so much healthier with better access to good protein sources and work on figuring out how to make it possible? If paleo believers won’t support the movement no one will. I agree with you that we have much to offer the world with movements for higher quality food and better care for the animals in the process. We need to stop being so “judgey” of each other and start working together for real change.
Yes
YES
YEEEESSS
ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY YES
i believe many would support such a movie.
Thank you for the awesome review, this documentary made my blood boil 🙂
100% abso-freaking-lutely YES
Hi Rob,
I’ve been following you for a few years now since reading your book. You’ve also been very helpful via twitter when my doctor tried to diagnose me with high cholesterol and put me on meds at age thirty-three (Pretty fit as well). You had me ask for LDL-P, and one other test to show the real state of the LDL and the doctor got frantic like he had seen a ghost. Sure enough, he ordered the two tests and everything came back “excellent.” He was so quick to recommend drugs.
My question is this: I’ve read Tim Ferris’s book dealing with the “Slow Carb Diet” which is very similar to the Paleo lifestyle (which I’ve been following for a few years). I too recently watched this documentary “What the health” with my wife, and now we’re somewhat perplexed and a little confused. It never recommends sourcing at all in the documentary. It only refers to government-funded meat institutions not privately owned farms. Can sourcing play a role and make a case for Paleo? In your mind how does Paleo stack up against the “slow carb” lifestyle?
It seems everyone has an opinion and reasons to back up that method of eating. It’s hard too because I’ve lost faith in the traditional medical system because I feel like I know more than they do and they’re too quick to prescribe meds (one thing “What The Health” did hit on but didn’t dive into).
Any help, insights, or advice would be great. I’m now 36 and want to be around to see my great grandkids. Thanks for taking the time to post this as well. Cheers.
Michael
Michael- there is a lot to unpack there. i try to start things in the following way: Eat foods that one is not immunologically reactive to. Wheat, soy, corn are biggies, as are eggs for many. this is straight out of the paleo play book. For some this may mean no beans (at least initially). From there we play with the amounts and types of carbs that one does best with. i talked about this at length in Wired To Eat and this is largely based on the work of the weitzman institute: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26590418
The interesting thing there is even classic “slow carb” options like hummus can be either a good or poor carb option depending on the person. So, this kinda calls into question the very notion of “slow carb” unless one has actually tinkered with this stuff.
Both of these are templates and starting points. The basic protocol will get 90% of people significantly down the road, but from there we need to do some tinkering.
Yes Indeed!
Great review. I watched half of it last night and then got very depressed. I haven’t eaten meat or chicken for years, but fish is even worse?! And cheese is the worst food on the planet? I googled “What the Hell What the Health.” Make your movie, please.
Yes. Absolutely.
YES!!
Yes
As a bodybuilder I was reluctant to choose a side. Mainly the quagmire of a low sugar and veagan diet. Traditionally even professionally bodybuilders use forms of Akins diets to cut weight. The problem I have is deciding if the veagan diet is really sustainable. In most scholarly journals I found it was either the same or less than meat based diets. Next would be the health issue which is debunked in this article. Last, as a bodybuilder I don’t think I can maintain the amount of muscle I have without seriously losing mass. In the end I feel that this diet cant be sustainable and in fact veaganism as stated above is not optimal. Although I seen some veagan athletes prosper they are clearly not in the same level as other athletes.
Mark- Ironically, I’ll actually come to the vegans defense a bit here. If one makes judicious use of various protein concentrates (hemp, soy, pea etc) I think some folks can make a very good go at vegan bodybuilding. Now, what’s interesting about that is they have to supplement to a level that provides what we’d see in a mixed diet. Many people will crow about “you don’t need animal protein to get big” but yet they are not exclusively relying on WHOLE plant food, they are using protein concentrates.
Robb, being a bodybuilder is an extreme way of living, and not at all natural. If a natural plant foods diet somehow isn’t optimal for it, it’s certainly not an argument against plant-based eating. That would be a non-sequitur, since you’re trying to achieve something unnatural by natural means.
Let’s not confuse what is best for health, or the environment, with what a few people are trying to achieve in the modern world. With that said, there *are* vegan bodybuilders who are very big, and the only omnivores who are as big as they are, are in fact consuming supplements as well. Why should the vegans handicap themselves when protein powder is so cheap and efficient? Just to prove a point?
Well, there is one person who might actually prove that point and change your mind. His name is Clarence Kennedy. He went vegan about a year and a half ago. He is arguably the strongest lifter on YouTube (in his weight category), but he doesn’t bodybuild, he is an Olympic lifter. He seems to follow some kind of minimalistic/frugal lifestyle because he wasn’t even using any protein powders for the first year. No creatine or other supplements either. And in that year following his transition to a vegan diet he broke every single one of his records. I’m probably not allowed to link anything on your blog, but he deadlifted 3.4 times his bodyweight just a few months ago without a belt and without straps. His channel name is “clarence0”, look him up.
Link to anything relevant!
Yessir!
Yes
Absolutely!!!
YES!
Yes!
not just yes, but YASSSSS.
Yes! And I never, never comment on anything. 🙂 Yes, 100% yes. I used to be vegan… it destroyed my health. A nutrient-dense ancestral diet saved my life.
yes! I would absolutely contribute. I’m someone who struggles with going back and forth between a vegan and omnivore based diet. There are a few different factors that contribute to my conundrum, including long-term health / vitality, the impact of diet on one’s mental health, and the environmental impact.
Tianna- this seems easy to me: Eat meatless until you want some kind of animal protein. Include that until you don’t feel like you want it for awhile. Listen to your body, sleep a lot, avoid processed foods. Easy.
Your movie idea sounds great. But I hope you will include the vital, but usually overlooked factor of mental attitude. Just returned from the funeral of 94 year old ex farmer’s wife who ate what she enjoyed, never exercised after retirement, worried constantly over family, but determinably wanted to have a good, long life!
As a person who is vegan,
This was incredible to read. You put so much into this. Thank you. I find it incredibly frustrating that documentaries or articles generally tend to cherry pick, as you called it, information that supports their side of the issue.
I don’t think any one way of eating works for every person. I followed strict paleo for quite some time (whole 30) and had overall poor health and digestion, and my blood work was what my doctor called concerning. Switching to a whole food plant based diet changed my life.
Do I wish more people would cut back on meat? Of course. Do I hate meat eaters? Hell no. My husband is a meat eater. Sometimes I just ask him to eat vegan brownies with me.
It’s always blown me away that for a group of people who claim to be compassionate, vegans are the least compassionate to their own species.
DurianRider is an embarrassment to vegans.
Anyways. Props to you. And this article.
PS Another movie idea??? There are so many diets promoted by so many people, often with veiled personal objectives. Who can we trust? Why doesn’t someone research the common factors of the small percentage of verifiable cancer, diabetes, heart disease etc sufferers who undergo complete “spontaneous” remissions and live long lives without medical intervention? If only someone without bias would research the commonalities of these cases and present the facts without hype.
There is some research in this area, but Dep, there are so many variables here. And unfortunately, there is little monetary incentive to look at this. One thing we do have is the anthropological literature which shows pre-westernized societies have lower rates of all these diseases. Some were high carb, some low, but none ate much in the way of processed foods. THAT is a good place to start as preventing these diseases will always be easier than fixing them.
Yes!
Yes!!
Yes!!
Education is so important and it really rustles my jimmies that someone without a clue might watch something like What The Health and go with an inferior, less nutritious diet than they should.
To be honest – I shut it off after they said sugar couldn’t make you fat as it’s stored in your muscle and brain and you just burn the rest off.
I mean honestly.
If you make the film please include commentary from Dr Rhonda Patrick!!!!
Yes
Yes!!
YES!
YES. All the way!
Yes! I am an ethical omnivore! Thank you for that!
Yes!!! Thanks for the level headed review.
Yes. I would love to see this project get off the ground and would happily contribute. Hopefully it will remain on the side of science in terms of the dairy question.
“and how this all led to a massive die of of megafauna (big critters) at the hands of our ancient and more contemporary ancestors.”
No no NO! This is more stupidity from “orthodoxy.” (I know, it’s unfair to expect you to be ‘up’ on every single subject ever! But THIS is my hobby-horse!) There were multiple MILLIONS of (multiple kinds of) megafauna across the entire planet (including Siberia and deep South America). Try, just TRY, to imagine how even one million humans with stone tools (and mostly not even bows and arrows!) were able to kill millions and millions of these multiple animals faster than they could reproduce, across multiple millions of square miles — including places where humans WERE NOT EVEN present!
TRULY brilliant man for a good intro to how the megafauna (and Clovis Man) disappeared) (hint it was SO not spears!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPEIqljdfOk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6Lftgq8mg (esp. around 20 min. in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnrDbbfyxE
Elenor-
It’s interesting stuff to be sure, but for me the evidence of the human impact on megafauna is the most compelling. Randall’s work is, as I said, interesting, but also has a fair degree of inconsistencies and criticism.
Actually there are various theories as to why the megafauna went extinct. One is over hunting. Another is climate change events including the possibility of meteors. The third and most widely accepted is a combination of the first two, in that climate change reduced populations so that populations were stressed and couldn’t recover from over hunting.
One other interesting theory is called the “overkill, second order predation, and environmental degradation” theory. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239555109_Pleistocene_Extinctions_-_Counterintuitive_Results_of_Combining_Hypotheses_Overkill_Second_Order_Predation_and_Environmental_Degradation
In this hypothesis, mankind killed off other apex predators which allowed herd populations to expand to such extent that animals overgrazed landscapes leading to mass starvation. Only the smaller more mobile animals survived. The hypothesis is somewhat counter intuitive, but like I noted very interesting.
I appreciate to have a counter argument to the movie. I am not paleo, not vegetarian nor vegan.
In your article I would have like to see a more objective analysis on the long term effects of saturated fat
I was not convinced by the movie to become a vegan but certainly think about the social and ecological impact of what I eat.
I would NOT fund your movie because I expected more objectivity, as mentioned before with regards to the effects of fat, hormones and antibiotics and free radicals from meat in the human body but I encourage you to keep striving to find middle grounds
Caring for people living near and being affected by the dood industry does not make me spiritually superior than anybody it makes me compassionate and responsible for my actions
Thanks Marina, I’ll tackle these topics in upcoming blogs and podcasts. That was a monumental amount of material to cover and I tried to do it with a balance of brevity but thoroughness. Often, brevity won!
Yes!
Well Robb is literally just as biased. Robb’s livelihood is completely based on all of you continuing to eat the way he prescribes. I’m not saying what the health is right or that Robb is wrong about all the health risks especially when it comes to cancer and diabetes. But, you’re missing a huge part of this which is the ethical vegan. This paleo ideology of billions of people thriving off grass fed beef is asinine. You nor I are qualified enough to comment about any of these studies about diseases. However it’s basic knowledge that the only way to create enough meat based protein that Robb and others like him demand is through factory farming. I think he is right about them looking at these studies through a biased lense but then Robb turns around and does the same. Can we just agree that our SAD has not only failed us but also less fortunate parts of our planet and stop bashing each other for healthy choices be they vegan or ancestral.
Brandon-
If you start the conversation with some kind of financial motive, then every person in the film is disqualified. This is the most remedial form of “logic” imaginable.
Another logical failing: If meat production shifted to exclusively grassfed, you are implying this will force a REDUCTION in intake due to scarcity…that is exactly what you just said, yet you and your brethren are fighting that? Again, defies logic, which is common in dealing with religious groups.
I completely agree that the SAD, built on big ag/bigpharma backed money is the problem, but the film went out of it’s way to give a pass on both sugar and processed grains…did you miss all of that? The film claims meat is THE cause of cancer, diabetes, autoimmunity etc. That is the claim made again and again. the claim is made again and again and although you may in fact not be qualified to comment on the nuances of that story, I am.
Robb
That’s a fair point. I will take that, you’re right money isn’t a fair way to judge someone’s objectivity. I’m not defending the documentary I definitely didn’t miss the free pass for sugar, I disagree with that. I do want a reduction in meat eating but what I would like to know is what your answer is as the expert. If we switch strictly to grass fed beef how do we sustain the amount that paleo and other diets require on a global scale.
I’m not commenting on cancer or diabetes because I haven’t done the research. The you in that sentence from my initial comment is not you Robb, it’s to my fellow uneducated article readers. So that being said I’m not asking for your input on cancer or diabetes because it’s beyond my education level I was never attacking your critique of that. I get that they say meat is the cause I’m just not refuting it on here because I (my self lowly non expert) don’t have the scientific knowledge. That also doesn’t mean that I am blindly telling all my cult, I mean vegan, friends that meat is going to “give them the cancer because I saw it on the t.v’s”
I was saying there is another side of this argument (not film) beyond just cancer or diabetes. So maybe this was the wrong thread.
Don’t lump me in with some agenda as if I’m so dogmatic I can’t see a different argument you don’t know anything about me. I own all of your books subscribe to your podcast and follow your blog. I just happen to not eat meat. I’m also NOT an animal rights activist I see no ethical issue in eating meat. It’s more about the process used to create such large perfect quantities for every meal every day. So when you say brethren or compare me to some religious group it’s just an attempt to bash me on this forum (like my comment about your livelihood, so fair). I think what you do has been instrumental in changing the American diet. Don’t get so offended because I think you’re biased, we are all biased.
What I don’t understand is the dogmatic hate from paleo adherents and vegans alike (everyday people not film makers) who don’t see that we want the same thing. I don’t think you’re wrong about paleo, I just don’t think it’s globally possible. (Once again not an attack, open for discussion)
Brandon-
I’m very sorry I mischaracterized some of what you said, the written word does not carry much nuance and i’m sorry I botched that. A few thoughts:
1-Fortunately or undortuantely, humans are tribal and identify with tribe and tend to hammer anything “different.” The one hting that seems to mitigate this process is the scientific method, although science is FULL of people who are as devoutely religious to their positions as any religious practitioner.
2-Current estimates are that more than 1/2 of all food produced is WASTED. never get’s eaten by human or animals. This after massive energy inputs to just make the food. Now, i think many elements of that system are unsustainable (topsoil loss for example) but the implication there is if we were just efficient with the food we do produce, we could support a 50% larger population…lots and lots of assumptions there clearly, but just trying to make a broad brushstrokes point.
3-For the first time in history, more of the global population has diseases of over consumption vs under. Now, many of these people are over fed and under nourished (poor nutrient profiles due to processing) but this is an interesting point all on it’s own.
4-Conservative estimates are that the US could produce 30-50% more GF meat in a sustainable fashion if we took proper advantage of the areas which are ONLY suitable for grazing. A paleo type diet can involve a lot or very little in the way of animal products, that’s large up to the individual. The point here is much upside in production is possible, this production would be sustainable, and then markets will determine how much folks get. Some massively ignored elements to all this is eating things like insects, which if properly plugged into the food system, could displace perhaps as much as 25% of current protein intake, all with essentially no additional energetic inputs. This is why I want to work on both a book and movie pertaining to these issues, it’s a lot to unpack.
Brandon, you’re citing the classic “not enough land” argument for pasture based ruminant production. When you actually understand how cattle is raised, you realized quickly that this argument is fallacy. Why? Even here in the US with the largest feedlot capacity most of the cattle inventory is already on grass. How can this be 84 or 85% percent of the beef being grained fed? You have to understand that all cattle are grass fed to a certain age (around 12 to 14 months) and then transferred to a feedlot to be “finished” on roughage and grains before slaughter at 18 to 20 months. So almost all cattle in the US spends approx 2/3 of its life on grass.
Numerically there is approx 82 mill head of cattle. If feedlots are maxed out at 16 head. Where are the other 66 mill head of inventory? The cows, calves, bulls, replacement heifers and stockers are on cow calf and stocker operations eating grass. Beef cattle production is a lot different than pork and chicken production where pigs and chickens go from insemination to cellophane without ever being outside.
Now there are a few other points to remember, when soil health improves, land has a greater carrying capacity, so you can increase stocking rates which means more head of cattle on the same amount of land.
Cattle can be raised on land that isn’t arable. Very little of the earth’s landmass is arable ..on average around 12% of the land mass. More of the earth’s land mass is suitable for grazing (approx 35%) So you’re not going to get much of any food production off of this grazing land without ruminants converting grasses to proteins,
Additionally when you understand crop and animal rotations, you also understand that on that 12% of arable land, farm land can be used for BOTH crops AND livestock. It isn’t really an either/or scenario. There are a lot of advantages of integrated systems including healthy more biodiverse soil ecosystems that require less herbicides, and synthetic fertilizers. PLUS such integrated systems generate higher crop yields. Watch this brief talk https://youtu.be/UEOVLpZrvvU by Gabe Brown, and youtube search his names for many other similar presentations. .
Yes! Throw in a t-shirt and I’d double my contribution! 🙂
I will donate to the Good movie.
Yes!
Yes
Yes
Yes. Where do i send the money?
Venita- I’m going to look around at some folks who might be a good fit to steward this. I’d like a few options, then we can open this up to the crowdfunding options.
Very insightful Rob. It’s a shame people make movies like this to distribute information that confirms their own cognitive biases by cherry-picking data, this, at the expense of the health of their watchers.
I’m glad someone with big influence in the health-sphere as yourself, can make time to make articles like this, which in turn, helps clear doubts of many dissuaded people.
Thanks for the review.
Yes.
Robb! Loved you on Joe Rogan. This is the only review of this bloody propaganda I have seen. I can’t imagine a more in depth and strong defense of what this movie attempts to tear down. (And even supporting their arguments in some places) Thanks for taking the time to do this. Hope you and the family are enjoying the summer.
Yes.
Excellent stuff. Vegans are in fact religious nuts. Best way to break a nut is with a hammer.
I use this hammer.
Indian Railways Study showed 7 fold incidence in CHD in users of vegetable oils vs. animal fat (ghee, butter) in 1,700,000. The conclusion of Malhotra who did this was that if satfat was the cause of cornonary artery disease, their findings were contrary to that assumption. Garth Davis blocked me after I revealed that to him.
They CAN’T handle the truth.
A 7 fold difference in a huge number of people is rarely encountered in such undertakings.
This is the first, but no the last time, I’ve read your stuff,
Well done.
Thanks Doc!
Thanks for the review.
I’ve seen a lot of documentaries. “Sugarcoated World” and “Sugar: the Bitter Truth” struck a cord with me. This one “What the Health” gave me an odd feeling. Sugar does not cause diabetis?
Fast moving nitbits of “facts” not going in details of studies and obvious cherry-picking tells me that the filmmakers has a clear agenda. The end of the films shows what that is.
For my part this documentary does more harm then good? Why? Because it touches on important issues like food safety, polutions in foods and from agriculture, that prevention is better then fixing etc. The movie beeing totalty biased towards going vegan as the only solution is the thing that dicredits the whole movie.
Yes!
Just another review hell bent on discrediting veganism. The research and peer reviewed studies and statistics and real person experience supports the facts that eating animals and animal based foods is less healthy and people are by far lessening their risk of many disease by eating plant based. But thanks for the bias ‘those crazy vegan folk’ review. Rather quite funny and transparent.
No, you are wrong…but that’s your right.
I watched the movie and was surprised that the woman was able to go off anti-depressants after 2 weeks. I find it odd, that most drugs have side effects if you do not get weaned off of them first. The weaning process takes longer than just 2 weeks. So that portion of the documentary I found a little suspicious. However, I will say that eating more vegetables in your diet will make you feel better. Eating a balanced diet is key. It doesn’t hurt to fast on occasion or juice to get rid of the toxins in the body. No matter what type of lifestyle you have, exercise is important. Though our family is going to go vegan just to try it. If we feel better, than it works for us. If it doesn’t then “hello chicken”!!!!!! : )
I will take this on and move it ahead of the book
Thanks for such an in-depth review on this documentary. I am a Registered Dietitian for PSE as well as an eating disorder facility in Brevard, NC. In the ED world, 45-54% of those with anorexia nervosa have practiced veganism and/or continue to have the desire to be vegan. I deal with this on a daily basis as the women and young men (adolescents) I work with have an irrational fear of eating animals and unless they were born and raised in a vegetarian home then it is typically 100% connected with their eating disorder. It starts to beg the question of what comes first, the eating disorder or the veganism? I battle with this question often, but there is no doubt in my mind that this documentary will instill some very negative eating behaviors for watchers. I appreciate your review as it gives me the ability to communicate more effectively with those I work with in case they watch this film.
Lindsay-
this may surprise you but i’m going to defend veganism here. Disordered eating will find a home, whether thats paleo, vegan, LC etc, but the data is pretty clear that in general, these “fad diets” do not CAUSE ED’s I applaud you for your work in this area, but our big concern, the thing that could literally destroy our system of living, is an outgrowth of the “everything in moderation” message which encourages people to try to navigate a world of hyperpalatable foods. In that regard, some degree of food avoidance (low car, or low fat, etc) is almost requisite to succeed.
Yes!
I find it so interesting that you MUST paint the film producers as some kind of vegan whack-o. In your comments and review you seem obsessed with making sure that at every turn you try to HAMMER on these people…….as crusading Vegans and crazy animal rights extremist. But you seem to conveniently work to hide the declining interview issues from organizations and the purported corporate sponsorship in the organizations that are named and targeted in the film. WHY?
Instead of writing a review, you start with the bemoaning of having to do the review, with the implications that you were dreading it because of those crazy vegans.
And please enlighten me if I missed your comments regarding the relevance of attempting to end the ongoing control factor by Pharmaceutical companies in treating so many medical conditions with “band-aid” medical intervention.
I am a person who has had occasion to metaphorically blow myself up on several occasions. In my life I have been on life support 4 times………due in large part to my own questionable choices in my life journey, and some with a genetic proclivity to heart disease, apparently on my mothers side of the family. Each time that I had to go through those situations, I was told be doctors that I would have to take so many medications for the rest of my life. About 3 years ago, I just decided that enough was enough. I spent about 6 months weaning myself off of all medications while I switched over to a vegetarian life style. And I got my life back.
THAT IS REAL WORLD…..
So I do not know WHO pays you to write these reviews, but it might be nice to hear that information also……. You have to make a living…..what corporate sponsors do you have?
HK
HK- I’m sponsored by Big SweetPotato…the Low Carb Jihadis say so. Multiple times i highlighted where I agree with the film, I’m not sure how you missed that and to your point that I (in your opinion) put a disproportionate amount of time focussing on the fallacies vs the points of commonality…I guess guilty as charged. it is not a controversial topic that corporate collusion is at the heart of many a problem we as a society face. I’d love to devote some time talking about that…It; largely involves market driven solution, which the closet (and out) socialists just can seem to stomach. So, your primary concerns are two fold:
1-I’m not nice enough about vegans.
2-I focussed too much on facts that were misrepresented and not enough on the points of corporate collusion.
Think all that through, then get back to me.
YES
Hell yes
Yes. If I wasn’t 3 months behind on my mortgage lol…sooo in other words I’d give $10 or so. Wish I could do more though as clearly this is one of the most important movements that needs to take place. Such worldwide ignorance on health…
Hell yes i would contribute
Thanks for your review and and for putting all the time and energy you did into it.
Hell, yes!
Really interesting article – thanks! Never heard of you before but came across it after googling reviews for the film. I started watching – and was enjoying the film – as you say it’s snappy and engaging. But halfway through the claims started to feel a little sensational and biased. Having noticed Joaquin Phoenix was a producer and well known vegan at the start I thought I would do some digging and came across your site. You confirmed what I suspected – lots of great points but it starts to get ridiculous when it becomes propaganda – you can’t complain about charity funding and not disclose your film was made by vegans – it’s just not credible. Best of luck with your own film if you get it off the ground but I hope that you can find a cool way to make engaging for a larger swathe of the population without resorting to these tactics. If nothing else the time it took to do this review has helped you gain new audiences!
Hi Robb,
I appreciate your thoughtful review. I am a functional medicine MD and follow the paleo diet. It has really helped me improve from crohns disease. One part of the film that you did not comment on was the whistleblower who was interviewed and reported that mad cow has been found in the US meat supply, and it is being covered up. Can you please comment on this. I found this extremely concerning. Especially since I have seen people die from it here in the US.
Thank you!
Watched the documentary, immediately went online to fact check the claims made as it was clearly biased with a very clear agenda, and I found this article. Have to say, I appreciate the professionalism and fact based reasoning behind what you write here. I don’t do meat myself, but I am often frustrated by documentaries like What the Health, because in my view, it is unnecessary to lie to provide a strong argument for plant-based diets, and bad argumentation in movies like this just delegitimize the perfectly good points one can make.
I have one bone to pick with you though, and that’s the notion that the vegans are kicking your butts, and that they are a powerful and united, religious community. That only applies to the very few militant vegans out there. For the rest of us, those that just want to quietly eat the way we want to eat for ourselves, and don’t think of our diet as our identity, not eating meat and dairy is still a fairly alienating experience, as the majority of the food world around us is meat-based. So don’t you worry, you omnivores are holding your own. (:
Yes! I had cancer at 23 and since then a host of medical issues. I’m pretty obsessed with food documentaries, but overwhelmed with the argument for the “high-carb, low-fat vegan” approach. I’d love to see a documentary showing an alternate approach to improving health.
I loved reading this. Very insightful review and break down of it. I watched this film last night and I struggled through the majority of it. Although there were some points made that I did agree with, I knew 10 minutes in, this was all going to be “vegan propaganda” and it was.
I cringed through the parts about human’s evolution (which I don’t necessarily believe we evolved) from apes like chimpanzees and that we are actually (cringe) “frugivores.” Carnivores jaw only goes up and down and ours and apes (who are “frugivores” goes sideways when chewing. Frugivore is such a laughable term and I’ve heard this term even before seeing these films.
That being said truth was being buried with lies in this documentary. They never talk about GMOs in this documentary that even foods like those in plant based manufacturing might contain.
Anyway, this is a Hollywood documentary looking down on us non-Hollywood socialites those of us who call ourseves omnivores (happy to eat anything) kinds of people. And Hollywood is always coming out with these dumb “holier-than thou” documentaries. I didn’t bother seeing “Cowspiracy” since the intent was obvious. This one tricked me and for some reason I still finished it even after the realization came that it was vegan propaganda.
I took what was said in the documentary with a grain of salt. And I formed my own opinions. If I could I’d go back to the 1800s where I shot my food and grew it and not ever have to go to the grocery store and have the paranoia of thinking GMOs and other crap is being injected into the food I eat.
Thank you so much for your detailed analysis, I appreciate it so much. I am an Animal Welfare Approved pasture-based livestock farmer who had dedicated my life to producing meat to the highest welfare standards. I am a strong advocate for people to eat less meat, but when they do, make sure they are eating the best meat. I empathize deeply with vegans, we have in common the desire to put an end to factory animal production and animal suffering. We obviously differ in what we believe is the solution – we believe that widespread adoption of a vegan diet is highly unlikely (and unnecessary), but there may just be hope for a return to an agriculture system that predates industrial corporate factory farming. Our farm (and others like it) was founded on that hope. I think that it is awesome that so many of your readers are eager to donate to an idea of a film that might further that hope into reality. I will say, there is something each one of your readers can do right now to help – and that is to seek out the farms that are producing meat on pasture and support those farms exclusively. Find a meat CSA (especially from an AWA approved farm), and join it. Go to your local farmers market, meet your farmers, find out how they raise their animals and buy the meat that they produce. We’ve got the vitriol of vegans on one side and the factory corporate farms that would like to see us go away on the other and we really need your support.
Yes. I could give $20 to such a cause right now.
I’d love to see a documentary on the subject without any other agenda then to explore nutrition on health, and which presents the science more respectively.
I also think people are capable of understanding more nutrition nuance than we give them credit for. Carbs are not simply good or bad. I think people are capable of understanding the nuance of high fiber, high-glycemi, etc. But rarely do films like this explain it at all. This is the kind of information that empowers people to make more educated and healthier decisions daily.
Thank you for the detailed and respectful review Robb! So appreciated.
Fuck yes, I would support a movie like this. Thanks again for all your great work Robb.
Yes,
Great article. My brother and wife are leaning towards vegan these days, based on statistics. Like I always tell him that I learned after several years of stat classes. Don’t believe a statistic you haven’t made up your self, which you can use to convince 80% of the people, 80% of the time of anything.
The best quote from your article is from Joel Salatin.
Great work!!!
Yes!!!!
Yes.
YES!
Hi Robb! I don’t really have a dietary orientation, watched the film and decided to try vegan for a couple weeks. The film itself was some parts compelling and some parts off-putting for how combative it was, but then even more off-putting is the thought of how the American diet is influenced (controlled?) by corporations, the subsidies they receive, and the influence of their lobbyists. (Could probably be said for almost every aspect of our lives, unfortunately.)
I wanted to see some substantial critique of the film, beyond “omg these vegan fanatics are the worst,” and I think you provided many good examples of such critique. From the outside of the dialogue, however, I have to say it seems like there is something of an ideological war going on which makes it hard to sift through and find the “facts” or “reasonable and well-researched opinions.” Again, I think you do a good job of trying to get actual points across the sea of diatribe and invective. So thank you for that!
I don’t know that I’m convinced either way, and maybe that’s the wrong lens — any statement of “this way or the highway” is suspect. I imagine that the general (perhaps overlapping) principle of eating mostly whole foods that you prepare yourself would do just about everyone in developed countries a world of good, insofar as it’s a radical departure from the standard American processed/fast-food diet.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling comment. Good write-up!
Yes! I will contribute if you make a film. Thank you for this scientific and intelligent look at this film. I actually only got 18 minutes in before I was calling BS on much of what was being said. So I paused to look into the filmmakers and it became clear. I didn’t finish the film. I came across your site in the process and am now very interested in your work. Again, thank you for taking the time to dissect and essentially obliterate the films false claims. I’m grateful for your balanced, sane, and intellectual approach!
YES!
And thank you for the hard work on your rebuttal to the film. Takes a lot of time to do that kind of work.
As a yoga teacher, I meet lots of vegans, many of whom appear physically unhealthy, are quite moody, and overall are pushy and over-sensitive about mentioning anything about eating meat. I really don’t care what anyone thinks or does in their spare time, just please don’t push it on me. I think it’s a noble thing, but for your health, which is vital to your happiness, as a vegan you might have to change your diet around every few years or so. Also, I always felt like the ability to eat vegan (and to get all the supplements you need, and the variety of foods) you kind of have to be a bit privileged in terms of money. It’s also not going to work very well if we ever hit a zombie apocalypse 😉
Yes
I neglected to ask in my earlier comment if you could point me to certain articles you’ve written on eating less chicken and on sustainability? (I noticed you mentioned that in this article). I’ve been looking into your website but you have a lot of info to look through which is amazing! I stopped eating beef 3 years ago and now poultry is the only animal product I eat at all. I eat clean, free range no antibiotic, blah blah blah. The goal was to go vegan but the 3 times I’ve tried I felt so absolutely terrible physically that I couldn’t maintain it. I stopped eating beef because (living in the south), I see cows often, and I see soul and life in their eyes. I don’t witness this with poultry though that’s not to say it’s not there. It’s just a different level of consciousness between animals I think. Lately, I’ve been craving beef and hating poultry. I take this as a sign from my body as a vitamin defenciency as this is this first time in 3 years I’ve wanted beef but I have a lot of guilt with eating any meat even though I know my body needs it. I’m really in need of your expertise. I’m going to buy your book but I’d also love it if you could direct me to some other articles you’ve written on chicken vs beef and sustainability. Thank you so so much!
Kristen,
Here are some to get you started:
https://robbwolf.com/2016/04/27/its-impossible-to-be-vegan-lessons-from-a-10yr-old-girl/
https://robbwolf.com/2016/01/19/episode-305-nicolette-niman-sustainability-and-defending-beef/
https://robbwolf.com/2015/11/04/sustainability-dogma/
https://robbwolf.com/2016/08/03/why-is-it-necessary-to-eat-animals/
https://robbwolf.com/2015/02/11/sustainability-abbz/
Thank you so much, Squatchy!
YES! Thanks for the work you do Rob.
Yes!
I believe there might be citations on the films website with a timeline of when the “facts” appear in the film.
Yes!
Thank you, Robb.
NO!
(Couldn’t resist given the lemming-like response of a majority of other comments here.)
I get the whole ‘my facts are better than your facts’ exercise as played out in this review, which is similar to the approach taken in the movie, but as we all know pretty much any ‘fact’ can be spun a number of ways. I thought the movie was good if only that it reminds us of all the influences on what we eat, think, etc. of which we may be completely unaware. I’m in marketing and know how the game works. The human body is amazing and can digest (or tolerate) an amazing range of things, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be thoughtful about what we put into it. A doctor on NPR recently said ‘our bodies are fighting off cancer our whole lives, most of the time successfully defeating the few nascent cells that develop, but every once in a while the cells survive and multiply – that’s when you have big problems.’ Made me wonder if there are ways we can help maintain strong defenses as, in reality, cancer is not some hypothetical future event but rather something our bodies are fighting constantly, now. I don’t think we can blame all ills or even a majority of them on eating meat, but it is a good to be made aware of at least some of what’s going on behind the curtain. We’re all adults – we should be able to watch a movie with some new information without our hair catching on fire.
Let’s be real now “Diseases” or man made it’s all about money point blank period say what u want it’s the truth!! If society cared so much about the people were the f***k is cure for cancer HUH????!! Our body didn’t create disease!!!!!! I feel bad we been lied too and some people will not believe they will continue tell they get sick. I’m actually hurt I love food just like everybody else but certain food are just not good for us. I love the documentary I’ve been aware. Wake up people. It’s alll about that MONEYYYYYYYY
Yes.
Thank you for taking the time to write the review, I’m all for having the best, unbiased information at hand to make the best dietary choices for optimum health.
What tbe hell are we supposed to eat. One side says one thing and the other side says another. I look at food as mechanically as a car engine to gasoline…to me the whole eating thing is a waste of time, and money. Give me the day when we can absorb everything needed by simply going outside…..
Seriously though, give me ONE healthy meal that provides everthing my body requires and I will simply repeat that meal day after day and be perfectly okay with doing so….
That’s why we like to view this stuff through an evolutionary lens, otherwise it gets really confusing for people.
Yes
Yes!
Yes!
Yes
Yes
Any word on Facebook yet? Has he responded?
Just curious…
Yes!
A couple things
1-Congrats on the purple belt!
2-We can’t make it Paleo vs. Vegan. That is chasing our tail. We need to educate the masses who are interested, not try and convert.
3-Ironically, ethical omnivores have far more in common with most Vegans than either side has with an average American who is relatively unconcerned with their food. We should stop the sh!t slinging.
4-I see a huge problem within the “Paleo” community. For example; I attended paleoFX this year (and I truly don’t mean to bash the expo, it was mostly a great event) and I was disgusted by so much of the gimmicky, prepackaged crap that was being hustled as “healthy because its Paleo”. No wonder people are turned off by the movement, from the outside it appears you just slap the name “paleo” on the side of a snickers bar and sell it for $15 a pop. I don’t have an answer here…
5-The story of sustainability in the paleo community needs to be told and emphasized. Even many people within the community have no clue.
Thanks for your work Robb, I really enjoy it!
yes
YES!
Yes
I am a Registered Dietitian and a vegan. I understand how this documentary may not have presented all the facts and could be very frustrating to those who follow a more meat-heavy diet and are perfectly happy and healthy.
Obviously, I have read and am very impressed with all the studies supporting the benefits of a plant-based diet, specifically the long-term large population studies such as the Adventist Health Study. While we could sit here and pick apart studies all day, what I find most upsetting is the tone of these arguments and the divisiveness (on both sides) that has come out of the conversation.
I think we can all agree that our food system is not ideal and that Americans are sick because of it. Most vegans recognize this, as do most eco-conscious paleo people. It seems that all the effort we put into arguing against each other could be better spent affecting change on a more systemic level.
And on a personal note, I do not and have not ever considered myself to be morally superior to meat-eaters, though I understand how it may come across that way to some people. I eat the way I do because it is the best thing for me – physically and morally. It has nothing to do with passing judgment on anyone else.
PB-RD- Thank you for this, i really appreciate you taking the time. I am talking with Kip and Dr. Garth Davis (featured in the film) and we are working to set up a conference in which we will talk about these topics in a respectful, scientific fashion. Thank you again.
Wonderful! So glad to hear about this conference taking place. I’ll look forward to following along.
Yes,
Yes.
This was an amazing read. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
Thanks for the critical review. I myself am not a vegan but have been thinking about changing my diet up more than once the last couple of years. The documentary did help me to finally flip the switch and change up a lot. I’ve been a big consumer of meat/fish/chicken. Where I come from eating 100g of fish or meat during a meal is nothing. it’s more like 400-700g each and more if it’s a “social” event.
while I don’t believe that meat itself is a problem I do believe that the meat we have now is becoming a problem. the unethical ways it’s grown, the reactions your body has to it (I never knew your body reacted to meat etc with inflamnations). All those growth hormones/anti biotics etcc etc they must somehow have a toll on the meat we are consuming.
so I think the question should be more of: Do I need the meat to be healthy? and can meat be unhealthy to me? That’s the question I asked myself after watching the documentary. Same for milk/eggs/chicken. And what I found out is the following: It is close to impossible to find unbiased information and the medical studies you find are sometimes contradictory to each other. So I think i’m going to opt for the middle road.
I’ve severly reduces meat/fish/chicken in my diet and consume around 150g each a week. Basically a “normal” serving and I think that is the biggest problem we have in the world nowadays. I honestly doubt studies would show anyone having a worse health compared to a 100% vegan if that person ate meat/fish etc in moderation. Moderation is something we are losing, portions are all super sized. A burger nowadays has between 300-600gram of low quality semi-beef. And that’s considered a single snack. Add lunch/dinner etc and there you have it…the source of the problem. Sorry for the long post, ill stop now hehe before I just keep spilling my thoughts out.
Yes I would donate, not because i’m ethical or anything but i’d support unbiased documantaries, it’s something we severly lack nowadays. Everyone has a hidden agenda and the truth is tried to be hidden or twisted.
Definitely Yes.
Yes!
Yes
Yes
It’s too bad when you present facts to the vegan population they will just dig their ideological heels in the sand and double down in their ignorance. We seem to live in an age where people will reject evidence and flee from reason, only to address everything with emotionalism and ad hominem logic.
Interesting perspective. Thanks. A lot of that film just didn’t ring true. I have hashimotos and have spent years researching nutrition. Low carb diets have always worked best for me. I am almost 50 and I don’t have hypertension, CAD, diabetes or cancer. the only meds i take are thyroid replacement. I do, however, have concern for animals and would like to reduce my consumption. I don’t believe a Vegan diet would benefit me. What are your thoughts on their claim that even Organically raised animals are contaminated by environmental toxins? Thanks again for the breakdown, that film concerned me and I’ve spent a good part of today researching their claims. This was the best article i found.
Yes!
First and foremost Rob, thank you for everything that you do. Your tips and advice from the Paleo Solution added several years to my grandmother’s life I’m for certain. It’s also been the Catalyst of my journey into nutritional education through science. It’s amazing the age we live in of polarizing views, religious zealots, and aggressive vegans. It’s refreshing to find someone who is seemingly unbiased but is only motivated by the fact they had to fix their own Health First. Unfortunately to the untrained eye that movie would have had some compelling arguments. However if you point this out to a vegan they’re only going to dig their ideological heels in the sand and double down on there willful dismissal of any evidence that points to the contrary. Seems to me it’s the new narrative to just raise your voice and repeat yourself and eventually it will be accepted as fact. I’m looking forward to your scientific debate with Kip. I’ve always wondered what the comparison would be between someone who is on a Paleo ish Whole Food lifestyle versus a vegan. One more time thanks for your contributions and your latest book wire to eat.
I suspect the results of that comparison would have a good bit to do with the specific foods and quantities routinely consumed as well as every other impacting lifestyle factor (sleep, exercise, air and water quality, genetics, etc.)
Most vegans aren’t aggressive or militant, at least not in my experience and I know a lot of them. In fact, you won’t even know most of us are here, because contrary to internet memes, we actually don’t like telling people if we can avoid it. It’s uncomfortable, awkward, and creates a false picture of who we are to introduce that information too early. A false picture created by a widespread belief in the stereotype perpetuated in Rob’s review and your own comment. Just to give you a bit of a new perspective. Peace to you and yours.
No.
I’m sure there are scientifically flawed health studies in all camps. Probably this is related both to junk methods and the fact that we humans are hard to “standardize” – there are so many different/individual factors, which I personally think accounts for the majority of “noise” in these studies.
But, plant-based is not just about health, it’s also about sustainability. When you write “save the world crap”, you reveal that you want to ignore easily verifiable facts. Not very scientific.
It takes a lot more energy to produce a standard “nutritional unit” using meat instead of plants. I hope no-one is actually contending this very important point.
And there is no way for all people to eat meat, fish and dairy, especially at the current rates in western societies, without severely damaging our environment. It will not work, not without population control, which generally is recommended by ignorant our unsavoury characters (or both).
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full
I don’t think any natural, non-toxic, food is bad, but we need to stop butchering the planet, just to get a steady supply of meat, fish and dairy. No-one needs to eat these foods in today’s quantities to survive and thrive.
Focusing only on personal health is a very narrow and short-sighted stance. Very convenient for those who simply cannot envision a life with no, or very little, meat/fish/dairy.
However, sustainability is the real issue. I would happily spend money on a documentary that really analyzes our food, from a sustainability point of view. Maybe that’s “crap” for some people, but a lot of us care enough to look at the bigger picture.
So instead of wielding papers and “alternate facts” about personal health and diet, we short start to work on a systemic and sustainable food chain. Then we can start fighting about “the right diet” again.
Actually your prolix reply clearly demonstrates how little you know about agriculture, soil science and regenerative Ag. Livestock is actually ESSENTIAl for a sustainable food system https://youtu.be/UK7vXwIOlGk Not to mention very little of the earth’s landmass is arable, whereas a lot more is grazable. Plus even with the arable land, you get higher yields and require fewer chemical inputs with integrated livestock…And that livestock builds soil that sequesters carbon, improves water infiltration and oxidizes methane.
Wow, a study from a woman who has an agenda and stake in the livestock industry. Sorry if i am not shaken…
To dispute the environmental impact of meat, fish and dairy is willful ignorance.
http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%20and%20Climate%20Change.pdf
From a more trusted source, if you really need one.
As a vegetarian, I accept and respect people’s different choices of diet.
But as an inhabitant of earth, I do not find it acceptable to destroy our environment, to produce food we don’t need – at least not in the quantities of today.
Plants need to replace animals by a great deal before we can say that we are at sustainable levels. That’s the only really true statement in this whole discussion.
If you really want to debate the sustainability issue, please provide some credible study from a credible source.
This will be the focus of upcoming books and films from the ethical omnivore camp. I doubt you will like any of them, but to the degree i can bring both objectivity and good science to these projects, I will.
Actually the authors of the self-published non- peer reviewed 2009 WorldWatch report were vegan advocates, and economists NOT climate scientists. The 2009 report when actually reviewed by scientists was and continues to be universally REJECTED. Here’s the peer reviewed response to this self published report: http://www.vancouverhumanesociety.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/Livestock-and-greenhouse-gas-emissions.-The-importance-of-getting-the-numbers-right.pdf
The Union of Concerned Scientists also noted how this World Watch reports has been rejected by other scientist universally in their review of Cowspiracy http://blog.ucsusa.org/doug-boucher/cowspiracy-movie-review
Even long time vegan Dr. Stephen Walsh, the chair of the UK Vegan Society and Science Coordinator of the International Vegetarian Union, has noted that the World Watch Report overall represented VERY POOR SCIENCE. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TSuMTnsKg9dZ2gvJ-C1KVWIstvLlmbQw5UsARETSLwA/preview
Here’s another assessment that shows how World Watch manipulated its data to makes its case Using one methane CO2 equivalency for the livestock Ag sector while using another much lower equivalency for all other sectors. https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/la-chefs-editorial-does-animal-agriculture-account-for-51-of-ghg-emissions/
So if the WorldWatch Report is what you’re going to hang your hat on, all you are really going to do is make a complete fool of yourself. Since scientifically objective vegans don’t even support that nonsense. Only zealot vegans do.
Personally if you want to be a vegan, go for it. But stop presenting fake numbers and contrived data to try to convince others to accept your personal morality. When you do, it just makes you look stupid.
For some reason I can’t leave a comment it keeps saying duplicate comment detected even though I haven’t said anything LOL
this one worked!
Yes!
Thank you for the thorough drilling into this film and all the info!
YES! and I would even donate more because any day of the week: Rob is better than Kip!
Yes!
I read your article as I was a bit uncomfortable with some of the broad sweeping claims made by this film. I have been Type 1 diabetic nearly thirty years and was a little bit confused by some of the vague pieces of evidence thrown into this doc – talking about ‘diabetes’ is misleading at best, since type 1 and 2 are quite different! However, my take on Paleo diets is a bit like your own re: vegan… looking at the worst people – cases of Paleo diet makes me think this is a crazy cult of misguided people throwing fire onto the water. No doubt we could both look at the larger spaces between. Veganism is not per se a religion and to keep on with that argument misses the majority sentiment amongst vegans that does not seek to attack or sabotage difference, simply to find and promote a more peaceful way of living – see Dr Will Tuttle. I became mostly vegan several years ago. I don’t want to pay into the modern meat industries. I am way more healthy than I have ever been. My diabetic control has benefited. My weight is down even though I eat 3 times more carbs than ever before. I agree with most of the more salient points of the film… some of the evidence is slanted, yes… many of the larger points are self-evident. If those ‘larger points’ are things you are happy to ignore, then you are free to do so. If discrediting to meat and diary industries makes you angry, then perhaps you need to address where this fear comes from? Veganism has little to do with either spirituality or religion. It places no-one above the other. Humans have always predominantly grazed, eating meat irregularly and available plant foods regularly. Many DNA tests attest to the variability of diets over the last 150,000 years. One cannot generalise that humans ate more of one thing or another. A couple of European fossils recently tested were shown to be entirely plant based, while another was predominantly meat sources. As an archaeologist, I can tell you that evidence for animal hunting and capture tends to outlive evidence (stone tools – animal bones) for plant based gathering. Does this mean that animal hunting was more important… probably not! Why not look at the benefits of plant based diets instead of attacking a tiny group of militant vegans? The benefits are obvious – those that fail a vegan diet have probably failed to understand how to cook and prepare healthy food. And finally, you do not need supplements to be a vegan – a healthy diet needs no supplements – supplements are for unhealthy people (most people fall into this category!). I took magnesium as a meat eater and as a vegan. Diabetic sugar swings utilise huge amount of magnesium which no diet has ever managed to support.
Thanks for this, Vicky! Well said and I agree 100%.
Vicky, I’m also an archaeologist. While it is true that butchered bones and stone tools are highly visible in the archaeological record, I’m very surprised that you don’t reference the enormous amount of work, past and present, on foregrounding the plant food portion of the diet. My personal interest is in the transition from latest Mesolithic to earliest Neolithic, and the ways in which humans engage with their landscape; food remains are a good proxy for the kind of questions I like to ask.
Increasingly, it’s possible to recover direct evidence of plants eaten in prehistory. These include starch grains trapped in dental calculus. This protocol blew apart the stereotype of Neanderthals as close-to-carnivore by showing that they ate cooked wild legumes and grains. Starch granules are routinely recovered from the nooks and crannies of stone tools. Resistant sugars can be recovered from sediments. Phytolith recovery and identification via thin sections is old news, as is flotation with superfine mesh to capture pollen grains. Every summer, I float thousands of kilos of excavated soil at the Vela Spila dig, to recover plant parts. Cambridge University has a group working on the recovery and identification of leaf waxes, which have high survivability, so to speak. Then there are the stable isotopes, which can show whether the protein fraction of the diet was derived from plants or animals; they can even tell whether the animal protein came from aquatic or terrestrial sources! Even parenchyma is now recoverable and identifiable! I find it all very exciting indeed!
Here’s a parenchyma study:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00189433
There is a fascinating project called the Hidden Foods Project, which focuses on exactly this question of foregrounding plant foods. http://www.hiddenfoods.eu
Vicky, I assume that this is the humans-as-vegans study you reference:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047248414002541
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/08/519048010/some-neanderthals-were-vegetarian-and-they-likely-kissed-our-human-ancestors
There are serious problems, as pointed out by Chris Stringer, with the study conclusions. One cannot, simply on the grounds of DNA trapped in tooth calculus, decide that the individual ate no meat at all, ever, in her entire life. At the very least, stable isotope analyses of the bones should be carried out. Then too, why fixate on mammal meat? Animal protein can be gotten from insects and reptiles, birds’ eggs and fledglings. Neanderthals in the dense forest could well have sought out and devoured beetle grubs from rotting wood, or ant and wasp larvae. These might not leave much trace in the calculus. A Neanderthal eating plants and arthopods would not be vegan.
Further, even if more lines of evidence support Weyrich et al’s hypothesis, all that would show is that some individuals in the Upper Palaeolithic didn’t eat meat. There was no indication that they were any healthier than their contemporary omnivorous Neanderthals. Indeed, the study points out that a young male in this group had a a severe dental abscess and stomach infection. Despite the presence of willow bark and penicillium in the plaque, this individual died young.
I don’t think there was ever one definitive diet in the Upper Palaeolithic, or one definitive environment. Even for genetic descendants of a group in one area, climate fluctuates and conditions change, with inevitable consequences for diet.
I see no reason why people with the right biochemistry shouldn’t thrive as vegans, as long as they pay close attention to their health, and take whatever supplements prove necessary. There is also no reason why omnivores, vegetarians, or pescetarians shouldn’t thrive, as long as they pay close attention to their health, and supplement if necessary. There’s plenty of evidence that people at all points of the dietary continuum do thrive! Humans have really generalist guts, which I consider at least as important in our success as a polyphyletic species as our big brain. However, the role of individual genomes can’t be minimized. A person who does not produce intrinsic factor is not going to be able to absorb vitamin B12. Somebody lacking lactase-persistence genes will never do well with fresh milk. Individuals who don’t efficiently convert ALA to DHA and EPA can eat flax seeds till eternity, and still be deficient. Those who produce low levels of the necessary enzymes will struggle to maintain adequate levels of vitamin A if all they eat is plant foods containing carotenoids. Individuals with 30 copies of Salivary amylase 1 will be far better able to metabolize starch than those with only 6 copies. The ApoE variant of the individual affects that individual’s cholesterol metabolism. Women who secrete equol derive benefit from soy, while those without this enzyme don’t.
There is no one single genetic blueprint for all of humankind, with any exceptions being broken or substandard. It is precisely this humungous species-level of flexibility that has given us such an adaptive edge. In a region where there’s little plant growth directly edible by humans, at least some individuals will do very well indeed on a high meat or high milk diet, depending on whether it’s tundra or grassland. On the other hand, in environments where there’s little animal source food available, there will be some individuals who manage very nicely on a high plant-food diet. Of course, in any scenario, there will be individuals who suffer varying degrees of ill health. In populations with little choice, the weakest will die young and the allele frequencies will skew toward that most fitted to the dietary circumstances.
I should disclose that I do not eat a paleo diet, nor even a primal one. I did badly as an ovolactovegetarian, and became very sick on a vegan diet. I was doing it properly!!! Based on close to 40 years of personal research, personal experience with my own body, and my training as an anthropologist specialized in archaeology, I eat what agrees with my body. I buy whole foods in their natural state and prepare my food from scratch, about 90% of the time. I have never smoked, apart from the half a cigarette that made my 15-year-old self sick. I have a single glass of wine with dinner once a week. I eat dairy produce, drink coffee and black tea, and enjoy the occasional hefty slice of chocolate cake. I do not exercise for the sake of exercise. My biomarkers are very good; my lifetime risk of either CVD or diabetes is around 1% by the Archimedes algorithm, less than 3% by other metrics. My weight is fine, my waist-to-hip ratio is fine, my weight-to-height ratio is fine.
I’m an interested observer of a wide range of blogs, including – but not limited to – Mark’s Daily Apple, The Vegan RD, Vegan Outreach, Raw Foods SOS. Richard Wrangham’s Cookivore hypothesis is fascinating. I found Michael Klaper’s project proposal for studying what he calls “obligate carnivores” (incorrectly, but I get what he means), and the reasons for ill-health among vegans who are doing everything properly, informative and instructive.
Yes.
I really don’t care which way you choose to eat. The factual information for how to do it the healthiest way possible should be far more available than agenda and ideology-driven pieces.
No
Yes! I’d even be willing to share my research that I’ve been collecting for years on my patient population! My long term vegan patients are often my sickest. Moving people into an ethical omnivore lifestyle is key.
Yes! I’m very selective about the things I donate to, but I would definitely donate to this!
yes wolfman.
Yes
Yes at least $100
I will financially donate a $1000+ to support your movie as long as it offers a non-capitalist viewpoint that sits between vegans and excessive (in the US regular) meat-eaters.
Yes! Without a doubt.
yes
Yes.
Yes please! I was just telling my husband how I wish that there was a good documentary out there to present the other side. One that showcases whole, real, unprocessed, ancestral foods. We became vegan for year after watching Forks Over Knives. It took me years to recover from the hypothyroid adrenal fatigue and anemia it caused. And I believe I read it in Denise Mingers book, death by food pyramid, about the connection between vitamin B12 deficiency and angry irrational behavior. Since the only source of B12 in a vegan diet is through supplementation, it would explain the disproportionate amount of angry vegans. Thank you for taking the time to do this!
Jamie, interesting you say that because I also switched to plant-based after watching Forks Over Knives (following Dr. Esselstyn’s strict recommendations to the letter) and also became ill – vitamin deficiency because I could not absorb all those great nutrients plants had to offer without fat – and I struggle with my thyroid and metabolism to this day. The biggest insult was that my triglycerides, previously normal, went through the roof and my cholesterol went up 20 points. That was all on the diet (or “lifestyle change”). I won’t even get started on the weight I gained back (plus more) once I succumbed to cravings in my nutrient deprived state.
I am sure plant-based diets work for some, but it did not for me, and should not be touted as a one-size-fits-all plan. The disinformation is astonishing.
Thanks for this thorough review. As a plant-based eater who was less than impressed with the film, I appreciate a lot of the work you did here to bring us back around to the facts. I agree that the film’s strong point was the attention on government/ag/big pharma collusion and that shouldn’t have been overshadowed by cherry picking and confirmation bias. There is good science supporting plant-based eating, sadly this film didn’t include much of it. You *did* largely maintain a professional tone here and it’s appreciated, So, cheers.
Like Vicky above, I feel compelled introduce myself as an eater, to counter the crazy-psycho vegan stereotype you do seem to unfortunately focus on quite a bit. As a mostly-vegan I don’t consider myself morally superior others. We are all on our own health and spiritual journeys and who am I to judge? My personal morals are simply this–don’t eat things that you would not produce yourself. (Theoretically of course; I realize that modern life demands that most of us delegate this task.) I think it’s wrong to breed and raise animals solely to kill and eat them, because I could not do it. I think it’s great to eat vegetables because I can (and have) grow am deathly harvest them. If you go out in the wild and hunt the way our ancestors did, more power to you. I can’t bring myself to kill an animal so I won’t eat it. I have to believe that my apprehension to kill other sentient beings is rooted in something important; so I eat plants, feel great, am peaceful and just hope I don’t die much sooner or much more miserably than most.
Peace to all of you reading and learning here and best of luck on your journeys.
thanks Mandy, very happy and honored you added to the conversation.
Yes!
lol THANKS for this review! As I watched the documentary i fact checked and grew weary of it’s blatant bias. Especially when he said sugar is minimal in affecting people’s health. I figured the documentary had to be sponsored by PETA or something. The only truth I saw in the documentary is about the CON of drinking cow’s milk .
Yes. But . . .
I agree with Tim (July 11, 2017), though I can’t be in for $1000! I’ve been watching documentaries on all sorts of diets and they all claim to be the best, which deductively can’t be true. I’ve also been reading studies, as well as articles, with the same intention of presenting truth. It is disconcerting that no one seems to care to produce studies that are 1. scientifically high quality; 2. not biased by their funding source. Why is it so difficult for people to just give the raw truth? So I’d be on board for a documentary, but not one that is pro-anything. I would support a documentary about diet that is an honest review of quality science and accurate conclusions to tell people what diets are good and bad for them without any agenda.
Because of my experience with statistics being skewed, I could hear when the information being presented in What the Health was off. I noticed when only one side was being presented. At the close of the film, I was still seriously swayed and asked myself if I should become vegan. I decided to listen to my hunch and seek not just a skewed side of it, but the WHOLE story, which is what brought me to search and eventually find your valuable review. I feel that your review presented the other side of the picture without being excessively “pro-meat.” I found it very balanced. So thanks for that.
Thanks Stevo-
I think folks can follow a vegan diet and be healthy, it is certainly far better than the standard American diet. I’d like to see people tinker and try a variety of approaches and then critically evaluate them. My main axe to grind is (as you said) some of the information was presented in a remarkably monochromatic way (at best) and was just outright wrong at worst.
YES!
Yes
Yes!
I couldn’t get past the first 15 minutes of the doc d/t the claims that sugar/carbs were not the culprit of diabetes. Like you said, it’s hard to take the rest seriously if that’s how they are starting. I also tried to look into who funded it….many of the donors are anonymous…..interesting. Particularly the ones throwing large $$$ at it.
Anyway, thanks for the breakdown. I may still go back and watch it just to be frustrated. I’m all about eating what you feel is best, and if Vegan is best, have at it! But don’t back your claims with falsities and omitting facts that don’t support your platform.
Stepping off soap box.
I just posted this to this site the other day while watching the film. What a coincidence then, when I saw your review. So I repost it here.
“I have been getting a LOT out of your website, and enjoy the fact that there is real science behind what you post. It’s helped me, along with many many other people. But I am currently (as I write this) watching a new film on Netflix called “What the Health”. It has me a bit infuriated! They interview all the usual aggressive vegetarian/vegan activists: Drs. Klaper, Barnard, Greger, and Esselstyn. Dr. Barnard literally said that “Sugar and carbohydrates are NOT bad for you! They do NOT cause diabetes and heart disease. The only bad thing in a chocolate chip cookie is the butter and dairy”. Unbelievable. They all say these things with a smug look on their face, and they all look like mummies without the bandages! I’m sorry, but I had to rant. The LCHF cured my grandfather of diabetes way back when local country doctors had to prescribe diet as medicine.
I’ve absolutely nothing whatsoever against vegetarians. Half of all of my friends are. I was myself once a raw vegan. What I can’t tolerate is the smug superiority with which these MDs deliver their flawed information, literally saying that all the flour and grains in world won’t harm your health.”
Hey, brother… A resounding, YES! As you already know, both personally and on behalf of my company, we will enthusiastically give $100 x a multiple that I won’t even type in this comment… Consider this comment worth a literal shitload of Yes comments. A shitload big enough to make NC pig farms jealous…
yes
I would definitely contribute!
Yes.
And thank you enormously.
Plus, one of the reasons SOME vegetarians/vegans become angry and violent versus others is a lithium (and probably other micronutrient) deficiency. See my review at: http://www.johnfial.com/lithium/ , although I obviously have a lot of studies to add.
Here’s a petition: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/atom-lithium-both-nutrient-and-drug-and-must-be-recognized-fda-essential-human-nutrient . However, considering that website is certainly from the Obama Administration’s philosophy and the current shift from the Obama- to Trump-eras, I doubt it will do anything unless the petition gets hundreds of thousands (or millions) of signatures. The legislative branch certainly won’t do anything useful. Share if you care.
YES! And please inform us of when and where to do so!
Yes. I planned to read this just real quickly but holy moly you put a lot of work into it! I am going to have to come back to it when I have more time/ fewer distractions. Thank you:)
YES!
Also, I am a new mom and I am binge listening to your podcasts and taking in much of your site and I just want to say: You rule!
I watched the documentary and I agree with others’ comments about seeking a non-biased, scientific assessment of all foods. I’m struggling with the extreme differences in “scientific studies” and their recommendations. Have you read The China Study? Thoughts? At the end of the day, will anyone step up and tell it like it is regardless of personal financial impact? What if a sound study came out tomorrow that said meat is bad? Would a paleo author, MD, nutritionist, etc. be willing to review and accept the study if it was sound? What if it said meat was good for you? Would any vegan be willing to have an open mind? I’m not sure any one group (vegan, paleo,Whole30) that bases their livelihood on their ‘proven’ nutritional advice can give unbiased reviews.
Kate-
If we had good research, then yes, I’d assess it for what it is, but we don’t have ANYTHING that fits that bill. I mentioned all this multiple times that the research to really put thee questions to bed has simply not been done and is unlikely do occur. So, we are left with shoddy correlation studies which get presented as causation…Kate, the claims being made are simply not supported by the research being held up.
Ten years ago if you’d asked me I’d have said low carb was the best way for EVERYONE to eat. The research has proven that my position was wrong and I have properly amended that position to reflect I modify my position constantly on a host of topics. The vegans in this film show every characteristic of religious practitioners in that their position does not modify over time, regardless of the data at hand.
Denise Minger and Chris Masterjohn have both exhaustively fact-checked and analyzed the claims made by The China Study, and found it seriously wanting. It’s telling that Vegan Outreach not only does not endorse the book, but cautions that some of its claims are questionable.
My wife and I follow a diet….no, lifestyle consisting of healthy, whole foods and source as much as we can locally and closest to its natural state most of the time. I respect everyone’s choice to eat a certain way, but when films try and say everyone else’s way is wrong and doing such and such is the only way, that just ticks me off.
I am a responsible omnivore and feel most humans would benefit eating this way as it’s devoid of overly processed/packaged food and low quality meat/fish and produce. This film turned me off pretty fast as it tried to claim how unhealthy fats and animal protein are. Many vegans are doing great by choosing whole foods, but even they can go off track with all of the packaged option out there.
I’m going off on a tangent, but I say just by looking at how our bodies are designed to consume plant AND animals goes to show how we shouldn’t try to restrict eating an entire food group unless medically necessary.
Anyway, thank you, Robb, for an excellent review on a heavily biased documentary. Keep doing what you’re doing, you’ll always have my support for what it’s worth. 🙂
Hi, can anyone point me to resources providing a counter argument to the ‘meat is agriculturally unsustainable’ argument? I’ve found almost nothing myself so far.
This is an interesting start, and actually stars the conversation from a morality perspective: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1025638030686
Actually there’s a TON of information to counter the argument that meat is agriculturally unsustainable. Once you understand the soil science, you actually begin to learn that the exact opposite is true, namely that WELL MANAGED pastured livestock is absolutely ESSENTIAL for sustainable agricultural.
You can start with the books, Defending Beef by Nicolette Hahn Niman, Cows Save the Planet by Judith Schwartz, and Growing a Revolution by David R. Montgomery. Defending Beef has also put together a pinterest site that has aggregated thousands of hours of videos, podcasts and articles on sustainable livestock including folders on soil, soil carbon sequestration, methane mitigation, methane oxidation, hydrology, holistic management, biodiversity, etc. Here’s the link to that DB pinterest site https://www.pinterest.com/defendingbeef/
Plus if you want to dig even deeper (pun intended) into the soil science and range science Defending Beef also created an ISSUU page to download a lot of recent soil and range science research including a lot of researching demonstrating how well managed livestock BENEFIT the environment https://issuu.com/defendingbeef
Like “What the Health,” these mockumentary filmmakers’ prior film Cowspiracy was also a farce. Here’s a good review of that first mockumentary as well as a second review of the book the mockumentary was based upon
https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/la-chefs-movie-review-cowspiracy-truth-or-propaganda/
https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/05/la-chefs-book-review-opes-vegan-manifesto-comfortably-unaware/
I’d suggest Simon Fairlie’s book, Meat: A Benign Extravagance.
Yes!
Yes!
I’d pledge at least $200 for a quality documentary on ancestral nutrition and a move to Salatin style farming/permaculture/holistic management!
Yes
Thanks! My husband and I almost watched this until I read the reviews. First one said “This will 100% make you want to go vegan.”
Husband pointed out it might be good to hear the opposing argument but I’m just so tired of hearing the same tired, refuted points repeated over and over again. Appreciate you taking the time to break it down so I don’t have to spend an hour plus of my life dissecting it.
Would love to sponsor a film on regenerative agriculture and hope others would. Would have loved to see Savory’s eat it, wear it, regenerate it fully funded. Seeing that stop at 45% was disappointing.
Yes, I would chip in $50 to see this happen! I feel like there may be something from Salatin with Polyface Farms already out there? I haven’t watched it, but could we do something to get it on Netflix too? That would rock.
YES! I’d support!
Awesome review BTW. You have such a great sense of humor which made this review an enjoyable read!
I saw the movie on Netflix and stopped watching after about 40 minutes because the film was heavily BIASED and the director/producer CLEARLY had an agenda.
Also, the film kept saying that highly processed meat are dangerous and bad for you. No one can argue with that. But what of grass fed beef, and free range chicken? Aren’t those supposed to be good for you?
Also, that bit about them saying that eggs are bad for you is such hogwash! I recently got my blood work done and my doctor told me that my HDL (good cholesterol) is 112mg/dL. Normal range is 60mg/dL and higher. My doctor commented that she has patients that are on statins who aren’t even close to being up that high. And guess what I eat as part of my breakfast every morning? 1 egg… EVERY MORNING. It is the free range egg from Trader Joe’s that has omega 3 in it. I recommended people buy it. So healthy!
That being said, I chose to believe my own blood work and body over this film.
Cheers! 🙂
Yes
Absolutely yes!
Yes. Oui. Si 🙂
We’d absolutely support a movie of that sort, help promote it, and would be HONORED to be a farm that you visited. Having 10 years of sustainable farming experience, we’ve weathered many storms and have seen the trends come and go. One thing remains- we are committed to giving our animals the best life possible that is honoring to them and in turn remain transparent to the people that we are feeding. Thank you for this post!
Lynsey
“1:15:03 Kip mentions a study (does not provide it) that eating one egg per day was equivalent to smoking 5 cigarettes. I can’t actually unpack this one as there is no citation for this claim, which spurred me to search “Research citations What The Health.” The best I can find is this, which is not remotely up to snuff for a works cited: http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/facts/ Again, these are remarkable claims, with at best paltry support.”
Thank you for doing your part in paving the way to move us away from processed foods.
This is my first dip into this debate. I took a look at the source provided by whatthehealth.com and found two published studies it references from NCBI and The American Journal of Epidemiology.
I see that you missed this somehow in your search, but it’s all there. Could you please take a moment to address why, and/or why aren’t, these studies relevant to the comparison of eggs and cigarettes effect on the cardiovascular system.
Thank you
That has been unpacked elsewhere in the comments…I’ll find it and reply again.
Here again was the follow up on the portion of your WTH (aka WTF) review, where you noted that you couldn’t determine what study Kip says he looked at that was the basis for his assertion that eating one egg was as bad as smoking five cigarettes a day.
Well, after a few keyword searches, I pretty much figured it out that there was no such specific study. Rather this assertion egg/cigarette claims comes from Michael Greger cherry picking studies and equating dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol…and then affirming the lipid hypothesis as the cause for arteriosclerosis .Here’s one of those studies greger cherry picked from: http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/epidemiology/hanley/tmp/Applications/EggyolkPlaqueSmoking.pdf ..So basically the argument is that one egg causes just as much arterial plaque from cholesterol as smoking 5 cigarettes a day does. Greger pretty much details all this in this video https://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-vs-cigarettes-in-atherosclerosis/
So the basis for this egg/cigarette assertion is an association based on associations based on the associations made in studies that established the lipid hypothesis. Vegan cling to the lipid hypothesis even more vociferously than pharmaceutical companies. Cholesterol being evil is a canon of their vegan theology.
Looking further at the main study Greger cherry picked from, in the interpretation section, the study specifically goes into the varying degree of impacts that different people have with dietary cholesterol impacting serum cholesterol based upon genetic differences noting, for example, apOE differences. But from what I can ascertain from the methodology provider, the study didn’t really differentiate any of the participants this way. The only distinction made is the amount of plaque and numbers of egg yolks consumed. The cohorts cited in this further meta analysis really don’t provide anything definitive.
So if you’re a hyper responder, yes eating egg yolks may not be a great idea. But, of course Greger cherry picked only the parts of these researchers’ hypothesis that supported his assertion and then reported those parts as “facts.”
Very much yes-especially if the film focused/had a section on small farmers and ways to connect to your local small farmer.
YES
Yes!
Well, you could be right. Then again, I switched to a WFPB diet about a month ago and i feel amazing. Superior energy, better mood, I need less sleep and I am not killing animals. Oh, and methane gas. And corporatocracy run amuck. There’s that. Anyway, my point is, I feel really great. I was always a healthy eater–not a lot of processed foods and everything in moderation, lots of veggies. But never felt as good as I do now.
Hillary- That is fantastic and really the post important data point you can ever have: personal experience. The inaccuracies of the film however do one thing: They actually undermine the weight of your experience. And please, let’s not fool ourselves into this notion that vegansim is bloodless: http://www.ecorazzi.com/2016/07/20/stop-calling-vegan-food-cruelty-free/
As Robb has already pointed out, the vegan diet does kill animals. Your not eating the corpses does not make them any the less dead.
The vegan diet is not zero methane. Rice paddies generate rather a lot of methane. So do landfills. And then there is the methane released by eaters of the musical fruit.
Corporatocracy? Alas, very often the very same corporations that own the meat-packers also own the tofu and almond milk factories. They own the veggie-burger manufacturers. They may even own the produce farms with organic labels.
Here’s food for thought: who owns organic? Note that vegan foods are represented.
https://www.cornucopia.org/who-owns-organic/
Also interesting: vegan cheese pended by a pharmaceutical company! http://veganstrategist.org/2017/07/31/vegans-shouldnt-boycott-daiya-cheese/
Neither vegans nor omnivores are ever dietarily free of corporatocracy – unless they produce every bite of food they eat. Even then, if you’re buying seeds or fertilizer or soil or tools, you may still be in the hands of the corporations.
Corporations don’t care whether they sell you chicken nuggets or chickenless nuggets, pork bacon, turkey bacon, or soya bacon. It’s naïve to think that going vegan magically frees you from their clutches.
Yes
Yes!
Yes, I’d absolutely help!
Yes! PLEASE!! I would donate, participate, do ANYTHING I could to make this come to fruition. I used to work in news media, as well as documentary filmmaking (am now an NTP), and have a particular “passion” for accountable storytelling, and exposing the garbage that’s out there being broadcast as, and mistaken for, “truth.”
A few interesting points, while trying to keep my cool.
The chap who is on nutritionfacts.org (Should be called nutritionfiction and not just because it has a nice ring to it.) makes money selling the food he promotes and there are links on his .org website ( a domain which is supposed to be reserved for non-profit making websites.) oddly not highlighted in the film. He also asks for donations on his .org site.
Dr Klaper is the same, makes money selling his version of healthy food. Nothing wrong with that -except it is a bias and in science these have to be declared, oh and it’s exactly the thing they are complaining about companies doing in the film! Double standards anyone?
Separate issues are lumped together, animal welfare and environmental impacts of farming are not the same as milk and meat are bad for you.
Farming (Any farming) has an impact on the environment and on biodiversity. But academics and governments are way ahead and have for years been researching better and more sustainable methods of farming, land sharing vs land sparing considers the impacts on environment and species of smaller high intensity farms (And leaving other land untouched) vs lower intensity larger farms (Landsharing), where roads should go for farms, because roads lead to development and loss of biodiversity and trees, particularly in developing countries. does kip not know? not care? or just not tell people? Either poor research, poor ethics or no ethics at all.
Animal welfare is important, but we also have to note in the UK we are different from the US. This film appears to be quite American, to get a balanced and not extreme view of the other side, watch country file, you will see many farmers really do care about their animals.
Being a vegan or vegetarian or paeleo (No idea what it is) is fine, it can be a diet, lifestyle choice or based on health and principles. But to be healthy you do need to make sure you get the protein, iron, and B vitamins you lose when you cut out meat and or animal products, especially B12 and bear in mind not everyone can afford to buy supplements.
My big issue with this film and cowspiracy and all the articles that have spawned form them, (Apart form the obvious) are the health risks posed to people, who are concerned by these claims and cut things out of their and their children’s diets. For emotive impact, these films have targeted parents and suggest these things are bad for their children, including milk. Children who can potentially suffer from a lack of calcium and other nutrients, if worried parents don’t know how to replace the things their children need in their diet. My opinion, most parents don’t know what vitamin B12 does, where to find it and how to replace it, if indeed they know all the things you lose when you cut out meat or milk etc.
This should be a health/lifestyle/principle choice, not one made out of fear of the words of an up and coming cult. I’m sorry can’t help it, i want to slap them all around the head with a big wet fish and knock some sense into them!
https://robbwolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Heart-disease-768×477.png
What is the source if not a secret?
Just do an image search for that amigo.
Nothing wrong with carbs, good quality carbs that is.
Oh and my ancestors weren’t apes by the way. But that’s another story.
Apes and humans shared a common ancestor…, or at least that’s what Noah said while loading the ark. And as to carbs, it just depends: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26590418
Tentative yes to your excellent question. To clarify, I would not invest in a film if I didn’t trust the filmmakers, their ethics, and their intention to make a fair and honest film.
Yes I am sick of so-called documentaries made by people with no training in investigative journalism, particularly journalistic ethics, or even basic understanding of science, logic and avoiding logical fallacies…but the counterbalance is not just a LCHF version of Kip Andersen. At least, that’s not a counterbalance I would invest in.
Give me reporting, not an editorial. Give me less bias, even if the conclusion is that the jury is still out.
Terrific job, Robb. I’m only halfway through, but I had to stop to mention one nitpick:
“Cancer rates are increasing, but due mainly to population increases and aging:”
Population growth explains absolute numbers of new cases but not *rates of growth*, which the above statement unfortunately implies. An aging population would partially explain higher rates of cancer incidence on a per capita basis. I think you just mixed your apples and oranges in one sentence here. But overall, a terrific effort and great service! Thank you!
I’m not sure that I did…with few exceptions, caner rates are comparatively steady in westeernized societies. And by stable i mean much higher than in pre-industrial societies.
Also, YES I would and will donate to an ethical omnivore film that seriously deals with all of the issues — health, environment, animal suffering, sustainability, etc — that you have raised.
Yes, absolutely! This was a great read and very thorough analysis. I have a few friends who have decided to go vegan after watching this documentary, which sparked my attention (and concern). This review really laid out the facts well and I look forward to continuing this conversation with friends. Thanks for the education and keep it up!
Hello,
Thanks for writing such an interesting article. At the end, you say “It’s arguable if veganism is actually healthy long term”. Could you provide me with the best argument/resource that supports this claim?
Thanks so much,
Sean
Dean- I’ll refer you to Loren Cordain’s book, The Paleo Answer, which goes deep on the nutrient deficiency potential of a vegan diet. You will find the support references at the end of the book:
http://thepaleodiet.com/paleo-answer/
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! I am an integrative Registered Dietitian with a history of personal weight loss of 90 lb. I was vegan for 10 years , which was also partially the cause of my weight loss. HOWEVER, I suffered severe metabolic impairment as a result of dramatic weight loss,a high carb diet and had both macro and micronutrient deficiencies. I had reactive hypoglycemia, extremely elevated cortisol and tested positively in a really cool new study for oxidative stress (I was in the 95th percentile for certain metabolites) A paleo style diet and working with a Naturopathic Physician brought me back to life. I now recommend a similar diet for my clients, who have been getting amazing results for years. I religiously read your blog and think you, with a select few others, are responsible for “waking” our world up and I’m so grateful you take the time to do research like this. You make my life and my job easier and every single day, your commitment to the truth brings my clients closer to health. Thank you so much. I am a loyal loyal follower and will be sharing this with my clients. Much appreciated!
Yes
So, basically, this documentary just scared me into becoming a vegan. I eat a primarily low carb, keto diet, and I was under the impression that I was eating healthy. Now, after seeing this documentary, I’m terrified. What makes sense to me is the mass slaughtering of all these animals. It can’t be healthy. I slaughter my own chickens, I carefully discard the parts you’re not supposed to eat and make a point of meticulously cleaning the bird. If factories are doing this on a fast paced assembly line, then yeah, I can totally see how fecal matter would contaminate whatever meat it is. I actually have family that works for a meat packing plant and they’ve told me some gruesome stuff about cleaning the animals — or lack there of. So, now, I’m going vegan. I read your stuff, but, unless my meat is coming from a locally owned farm that kills their own animals by hand or my own chickens, I am not eating meat.
And seeing how those poor people in North Carolina live bc of the high demand of meat, pork specifically in this case, is depressing.
OH …YES!
Yes!
yes I would donate to a film on sustainable, regenerative agriculture
It was actually painful watching the “What the Health” movie but I finished it in the interest of knowing. I like vegans, vegetarians, meataterians, hot dogians, and everyone in between. What I do not care for are religious mindless cause zealots. So the vegans have a new fringe group that is surfing and gaming the data landscape, hoping that you will join into the froth and frenzy. It ain’t necessarily so. Breath deep and pause to reflect.
“What the Health” is a lobbying attempt. It works (against you) if you are lazy or too busy to dig for yourself. I was most put off by the cursory dismissal of sugar and vascular decline. It is not only that excess fructose (and any insulin raising substance) leads to slow destruction of all vascular lining (everywhere in the body…hello?…anyone awake?), it’s that to dismiss this fact is to condemn a subset of easily swayed public to this fate, right now, real time, while watching the this religiommercial. Information-like discussion looks soft and harmless, but it has permanent and lasting effect once released.
I would gladly support with $250+. Self-defense is not being hit in the face by an unprovoked assault. It requires at least the raising of an arm to block the blow.
What the health is very biased towards a vegan diet, I have my doubts about the sugar comments they made also.
I’m sure you can lead a healthy lifestyle on both paleo and vegan diets. However, the absolute facts are, the meat industry is cruel, not just to the animals, but to the people who are on the meat production lines and the raising of cattle in particular, is helping to destroy the planet. So when you have a choice of the two diets, which are both potentially healthy, why wouldn’t you chose the diet that’s going to help save the world.
Grace- But it’s a false reductionism to say its either industrial animal husbandry or vegan.
YES!
Absolutely yes! 🙂
Thanks for the tremendous amount of time it must have taken to put this response together, Robb!
OMG, where to even start? I watched the film last night and knowing what an emotional person I am, it was hard not to be upset. I went to bed considering going full vegan at least for the duration of the current health/wellness class I’m in. I’m so glad I woke up and this article was posted at the top of my FB feed.
I was introduced to the Paleo camp through Nerd Fitness and did a couple Whole 30 cycles to get a grip on my eating. For me, the biggest problem that the film didn’t address was how much healthier responsibly sourced meats really are- both as consumers, for the farmers and the environment. Being a single mom of 4, going to school (better late than never!) a single income household makes it terribly difficult to afford the highest quality available. I know there are ways, don’t crucify me here, I’m doing the best I can.
I’m wary of any information that is so blatantly one sided. Robb, thanks for really digging into this. I may not be able to financially support this endeavor, I would gladly help promote and support this in any way I can.
I am sorry that this response is so disorganized, MOM BRAIN is real!
Yes- thanks for putting the time into this Robb!
Yes!
Ethical omnivore; I love it. Somehow the term fits me better than Paleo. I’d love to see a (true) science based documentary bringing this style of eating and living to the mainstream.
I’d contribute funds in a heartbeat!
Yes! Thank you for speaking so well for so many of us seeking science backed information to improve our health!!
Yes.
Yes please!
Yes!
Yes and Thank you for your review! This film was frustrating to watch and yet I want to be up on all the discussion so I endured to the end. I work for a farm that I believe is brilliant in their stewardship of both land and animal and it frustrates me to see people talk of CAFOs like they represent all meat eaters. Ethical, responsible, even respectful omnivores….that’s me and my family. And thanks for sharing the trailer for The Magic Pill. I will be eagerly waiting for its release!
Hi All,
I was sick and fat for 35 years, started paleo lifestyle, now trim, taut and terrific.
i’m sticking with personal experience.
love ya Rob your the best
and yes
yes
Thank you so much. I randomly started watching this and immediately started thinking that this was opposite of everything I thought I knew. When he said sugar is not the problem in diabetes I was blown away. I started watching more attentively but couldn’t make it thru the rest of the program. I knew they had an agenda but didn’t know what it was. I’m glad to find out they’re all vegan. I subscribe to the opposite school of thought. Thanks so much for critiquing this film. I’m sorry that you have to deal with the aftermath for doing so. Meanwhile I’ll go cook some eggs and know my blood sugar will be fine.
Thanks for your thoughtful, well researched review of a profoundly annoying movie.
Yes!!!!!!
Yes! But only if you talk Ido Portal into narrating it.
Yes!
Thank you for the review based on real science. At some point, I felt like I was watching a documentary about the Earth being flat.
Yes! But $50, not $100 because I’m broke!
Four years ago I was a vegan marathon runner when I developed unexplained debilitating fatigue and weight gain. It would turn out that I had developed both Multiple Sclerosis and something called Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency. I in no way blame my vegan diet for this, but it didn’t in any way prevent it either. One of the first recommendations of my doctors was the Paleo diet and it did help me feel better. I love animals and I miss being a vegan in respect to my own personal values. However, I don’t believe a vegan diet can keep me in my best health. I’m very, very lucky to live near a farm that raises their animals compassionately and slaughters and processes on site. My farmer friend Sarah says, “They have a good life and one bad day”. I wish everyone had that resource that I do for ethically raised animals. Yes, please, let’s make a movie about “ethical omnivores.”
Yes!
I couldn’t read the entire article. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. However I think there were some studies of people who ate SAD diets and compared them to people who lived in Africa, China and Japan back in the 50’s. My understanding is that they didn’t have the chronic conditions we do in America. I’m just wondering if that it that is really an indicator of what a more plant based diet can achieve. Paleo Eskimos back in the day suffered from the same chronic conditions we experience now and didn’t really live that long. I think the science for a plant based diet being best in there, you just have to open your eyes. FYI didn’t watch the movie either.
I honestly mean no offense by this, but I think you need to do some more research on health in hunter gatherers, Eskimos, etc.
My brother recommended I watch this – I made it 30 mins and that’s only because my Mom was watching with me and she was really trying to give it a shot because we both really value my brother’s opinion.
When I talked to my brother after watching, he said he looked for anything online refuting it and didn’t find anything. I didn’t point out that it was probably too soon. I did point out that there was no list of studies referenced and that mean no way to see methodology.
My brother ended up following a vegan diet for 2.5 weeks. Now he and his wife have added dairy back (evidently vegan cheese is gross).
Yes
Yes! Thank you for your review. Grateful. Been reading (what seems to be a long lost book) Soil and Health oringinally published in the 1930’s I believe…. a study of argticulture. I’ve been dying to have a forum to share it with but, the long and short of it, is how damaging artificial fertilizers are to the microbiome of the soil and how animal wastes are the solution…. and how when animals and crops are farmed together versus monocropyed etc, and the soil has the full nutrients it needed, all the crops growing didn’t need any pesticides to through off disease, the animals that ate the food products grown in soil that was not depleted of nutrients, also did not need antibiotics or treatment to throw off virus and disease and guess what…. when food both animal and plant that were grown in nutrient rich soil was fed to the people….. you can guess how their health responded. Much like our bodies…. the problem is almost always “upstream”. A health revolution would start if we farmed organically, decentralized and with fully nutrient rich soil….. but it seems no one is even looking in that direction.
If anyone would like some facts
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/11/03/report-says-eating-processed-meat-is-carcinogenic-understanding-the-findings/
I’d love “facts” but we will need to looks elsewhere for those. That harvard piece is terrible. It replays all the mistakes of relative vs absolute risk, and their lab work is still mainly petri dish.
Yes! Thank you for the review – sometimes all the info out there is so overwhelming but this doc reeked of sensationalism and scare tactics and half truths. It’s slick tactics worked – I ran right out to get a green juice from Whole Foods to counterbalance the roast beef I had at lunch – lol. Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough review and detailed responses to comments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408140
I wouldnt bother setting a debate. It will go ugly as did the one on Cowspiracy at the Commonwealth Club, with Kip Andersen, Nicolette Hahn Niman and Jonathan Kaplan. It’s like arguing a religion- facts mean nothing to the church of veganism, you just give them a platform to promote their agenda.
https://www.commonwealthclub.org/events/archive/podcast/cowspiracy-revelation-or-cheap-trick
I largely agree, but the format i proposed is like putting their necks in a noose.
Yes, I would donate! I watch a lot of food documentaries and always follow up with reviews of those documentaries. This was probably the best and most thorough review that I have come across. Thank you for providing so many sources. Thank you so much!
I did watch the What the Health film and I found it thought provoking.
As a 72 yr old woman a meal eater all my life but now with several health issues I am probably in a different situation to most of your readers.
High blood pressure, heart valve disease, high cholesterol.
4 yrs ago after my yearly blood test I was told I was pre diabetic. Considering I am an active slim women with plenty of energy and do everything I want to do activity wise I was shocked to say the least.
My GP said it was unavoidable becoming a type 2 diabetic. I arranged to see a dietician/nutritionist for advice. The advice given together with purchasing a meter to check which foods to avoid, my blood sugar results are now at a normal level.
In my case I proved the doctor wrong, diet can play a part in our health, well at least it did for me.
Having seen the film I am going to do an experiment taking out certain foods from my diet. If I manage to get my cholesterol and blood pressure down I’ll be very pleased. It is worth trying.
Refined Sugar is the devil. Eat mostly vegetables, good fats, good carbs and lean meats.
Yes.
Thank you for the review. I’m generally weary of anything that claims to have all the answers. I believe Veganism claims that but who really knows with all certainty? In my opinion health is something built on a number of factors and to demonize an entire food is just not reasonable.
I lost 30 pounds and drastically reduced my AC1 & LDL by cutting out carbs & exercise. Yes, medicine helped, but based on my results, I’m calling b.s. on WTH. Thanks for your review, Robb.
Yes.
Many of the religious (not all are religious about it) vegans and vegans argue that meat does not get absorbed and sits in the stomach rotting. I doubt any of us have seen undigested bits of meat in our poo (as stomach acid deals with it), but we’ve all seen undigested corn and other bits of plants.
All written by a guy who makes a living promoting a paleontologist diet…
^^^ *paleo*
Yes…I make a living telling folks to eat whole, unprocessed foods. I should likely be locked up for such shenanigans! I’m not trying to be mean, but this is terrible logic. Garth (on of the Doc’s in the film) is a bariatric surgeon…could i make a case that he wants people to eat a vegan diet so they fail and need surgery? I could, and it would be as ridiculous as the point you made. Yes, understanding the motivations of the individuals in a story, particularly financial motivations, is clearly important. But when all the players are essentially engaged in the same activity, it’s all a wash. It might be better to focus on what the claims are vs the reality.
Yes!
Yes. Great review (even though I’m trying out a 30 day vegan experience – to see how I personally feel). Love the facts.
Yes! Thank you, Robb.
Absolutely!!!!!
Yes
Yes, but as a college student a $20 donation would be more in range with my budget.
Anything helps!!
YES! Oui je le veux! I’d give money, time, resources…
Yes.
Tired of the zealotry on either side. Would love a logical, well reasoned, scientifically/ empirically more proven response/ dialogue on these issues.
Thanks Robb
Enjoyed the rebuttal.
With all the interest in the microbiota, I am surprised that no one has connected the effect on the usually helpful GI bugs from the food preservatives as a cause of the deleterious effects of the latter.
Yes. We have been entertaining the idea of vegan in our family lately. I was vegan or rather vegetarian years ago and moved back to meat for the flavour. I have always maintained that we should eat real (not processed or look alike hamburger stuff made of soya and loads of something else….this also includes anything low fat) food. I also feel we should source our food as close to home as possible. This allows for us to see how it is raised. Yes, it is more expensive and I too give in with some foods from time to time. I guess what I am getting at is vegan, paleo, dr Atkins, whatever, research you food, know what you are eating, and eat healthy. Sadly, I don’t believe many really understand this eat healthy concept. We are led to believe processed fooods can be healthy and so are healthy…hmmmm no. We are also led to believe everything in moderation, which I strongly disagree with, as some people’s idea of moderation is a little bit of loads of processed food everyday, and a few carrot sticks (those peeled and processed ones….yuck). I laugh when people say they can’t get their kids to eat vegetables. Then go vegan. They will eat when they are hungry and that is all there is. Then when they develop the taste for vegetables, introduce meat again. We teach our kids what to like.
I am rambling. My point is that we need education around what is healthy food and I would love to see more on this..
Thank you.
Yes! I would donate $100 to help someone produce a movie about ethical omnivores if it included hunting for your own meat as I do.
Yes!
Yes
I’m most interested in any reviews of biological anthropology (primate evolution) that recognize the differences and similarities between our closest relatives in the hominoidae group (gorillas, chimps, orangutans, gibbons)-actually I guess the grouping is a bit foggy. At any rate if we look at chimpanzees dietary habits we can learn a lot.
Yes ($25)! I appreciated your article Robb. Very much. Great effort!
yes
Thanks for the review. I am close to vegan, but believe it is healthy, not a religion. I don’t disparage meat eaters. But I do believe We are caretakers of the earth and animals too. The mistreatment of them is sad and perhaps that is what is in the meat; the tortured or sick animal produces a meat that is sick. There is a way to raise cattle and chicken that is humane and clean.
I have been eating a vegan diet for over 40 years. I have a son who has been eating a vegan diet for his entire 35 years of life. I have no health problems. What does that say for being on a vegan diet for the long term?
It says YOU and your son are doing great…at adds nothing to the claims that meat causes: cancer, diabetes or autoimmune disease.
Hell YES
Yes.
For most of human history, we effortlessly consumed (nose-to-tail) the things we needed for strength, health and happiness. Like the fertile ground that we once walked upon, we were a natural extension of this earth. In the modern world, we unknowingly struggle to fulfill our nutritional needs in order to support and sustain a vibrant, disease-free life.
We are now part of a world where our strength, our health and our happiness are not wholly ours anymore… but it doesn’t have to be that way!
Great article, albeit log. Still interesting read.
I’ve been processing beef for almost 40 years, almost all in highly mechanized, high speed and modern facilities across the country. The cleanliness, sanitation and food safety commitment is greater than almost any ones kitchen, including my own and my wife is extremely clean. Personally, your chose of diet is just that…your choice. I like steak and my wife now makes me more vegetables. My daughter tried to go vegetarian but changed after months. Her choice and I supported her and anyone else who wants to go that direction. Just don’t demonize other diets just because they don’t align with yours.
I was curious if you could clarify something for me. Are they saying that saturated fat in the blood stream can cause diabetes or just fat in general? And I was wondering in your opinion if there was any risk in overtaking too much oil, like healthy forms of olive oil, grass fed butter, etc., in regards to creating an insulin resistance situation in the muscle tissue?
Hi Robb,
Thank you for shedding light on this situation. Your review was extremely useful for me.
I haven’t read all of the resultant comments, there are far too many, but I have seen a few and I am disheartened by the lack of critical thinking apparent in them.
I am not a scientist but my studies and career as an English and History teacher have afforded be the research and critical thinking skills which sent me on a hunt for ulternate views after watching “What the Health”. This journey ultimately lead me to you. I’m grateful for your input as many of the questions you raised were the same ones that I wanted answers to (HCA levels, dioxins, association between dairy and mortality rates of breast cancer survivors ect.). This topic is especially important to me due to my family history of cancers; my sister developed breast cancer at just 26 years old!
So all this is to say…
Firstly – thank you! I watched this documentary and started a vegan diet immediately with the view of researching further to better understand/confirm these findings and you have helped me to do this.
Secondly – I have some questions for you. In light of all this compelling yet somewhat dubious research and the fact that you agree with a lot of it, what do you propose to do/eat given the lack of access most of us have to pure/cruelty free/decentralised forms of animal products? Wouldn’t it be better to adopt a vegan diet in lieu of a better option? I would whole heartedly support your call for funding on greater coverage of alternatives to advance their implementation and would also be willing to assist in a more practical way (myself as a researcher and my husband as a qualified film maker), but in the meantime, what do we do? We already endeavour to buy products stamped “organic” and “RSPCA approved” but they too are fraught with difficulties. My husband’s family opporate a beef cattle farm that has been in his family for five generations and they too are concerned at the methods of production within the beef industry and endeavour to produce pasture fed cattle as organically and cruelty free as possible. They have lobbied against live export and generally only sell to meet works that they have personally inspected so I’m pretty set with my access to beef but not much else. I am also set for access to organic eggs but I need to read your recommended research on these before making my decision on them.
Anyway, I have made the decision to cut out all processed meats, dairy, chicken and fish and only consume “whole beef” from the family farm on occasion as cooking methods ect. of beef are still dubious. I have also decided to cut out all prossesed carbs but keep whole grans, potatoes and organic corn ect. I’m trying to balance what I learnt from “What the Health” with not only research but also reality. I’d love it if the world could convert to decentralised farming and stop their over eating and the over production that comes with it but the reality is that this will most likely not occur in my lifetime. I want to make sure that I am protecting my health and the health of my family contributing as little as possible to this global food crisis and I just feel that at this point in time, a largely vegan/whole food diet is the best way of accomplishing this goal. As I said though, I’d love your input on this.
I’m sorry I have written such a long winded reply and I know you may not be able to respond, I just wanted to both encourage you and assuage any fears you might have had that we are all a bunch of mindless drones who are incapable of critical thinking.
Thanks 🙂
EMME!!
That’s a heck of a comment, I’ll do my best to do it justice. One thing I’d like to address at the outset is a vegan diet is NOT bloodless. The process of raising row crops kills a lot of animals. Granted, smaller animals like rodents, snakes, birds etc, but it is by no means a bloodless affair. there is good modeling which suggests a meat inclusive, grazer based diet (with ample fruits, nuts and seeds) would be optimal from a “Least Harm” perspective. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1025638030686
People routinely dismiss that study and ones like it out of hand yet the most substantive rebuttal is “well, the vegan intention is better.” It’d take me 10,000 words to properly unpack that idea, but I’ll leave it for you to noodle on.
As to “what to do?” It sounds like you are making phenomenal choices. I think all of that is great and not sure if you saw the recent news story that Amazon is talking with grassfed meat producers?? THAT is both telling and interesting. We may see some monumental shifts in our production system, which will be healthier for all parties.
Thanks a lot Robb! I’ll have a look into these recommendations 🙂
Thank you Robb.
After I finished forcing myself to watch this vegan masterpiece.. the first thing I thought of was..
I cant wait to read what Robb Wolf has to say about this “science driven” crapumentery.
I would definitely contribute to a film about ancestral agriculture and finding more sustainable approaches to livestock and fish farming.
I thought the whole “unpacking” approach was interesting and informative. I must say I don’t have a problem with the filmmakers having a bias –
that’s normal. – most docs of this nature have a perspective. I eat meat but I found their arguments compelling enough to make be question why I do. I may will certainly watch it with my kids and start a dialogue about it – I think it’s important not to take it for granted) With 8 billion people on the planet, we need to find solutions and as a race, start to downsize and consume less and more correctly.
However well researched your answers are as to the human health issues, your debunking kind of misses the point (which may be addressed by your future movie project I hope) of the overall sustainability of meat production. I am an omnivore but this film made me disgusted by how far away consumers of animal products (like me) are from really knowing how they are produced and the horrific conditions under which the animals are raised. We got to a grocery store and buy some flesh packed in styrofoam and plastic and stuff ourselves and have no connection to the creature that labored under ostensibly cruel conditions to provide that. Humans should be eating meat in moderation if at all. (Frances Moore Lappé’s book “Diet For a Small Planet” rings true on so many levels) I think as a species we can do better. How can it be wise or even ethical for a fast food joint to sell a “happy meal” for $2.99 when the animals lived under horrific conditions and the corporations that own them are making billions in profit? Why doesn’t he government impose stricter regulations about animal husbandry? Not to mention the fact that to get a cow from being alive to being a hamburger and packaged and shipped across the country on a gasoline chugging 18 wheeler to being slapped onto a grill by a minimum wage worker to being in a bun devoured in under 4 minutes, — shouldn’t that cost a little more than a couple bucks? SO who is paying for that?
We need to rethink food consumption in general – whether we choose to eat meat or not. It seems like we have lost something in the connection and our relationship to what we eat- – it’s unconscious consumption– more feeding than nourishing. I don’t want to stop enjoying bacon but I have a conscience and I want it to feel ethical.
We will def look closely at the sustainability side of this story.
Absolutely yes! The Ancestral community desperately needs something like this. People need to know that there’s a responsible way to consume meat, which would counteract most of the Vegan arguments. My biggest problem with this film is they didn’t talk about what most vegans replace animal products with – wheat, corn, and soy – which have just as devastating effects on the environment (and our health). Not to mention the government subsidies and collusion. A lot was left out. Greatly appreciated your review Robb!
I decided to try a plant based diet for 2 weeks after watching “What the Health,” my reasons being curiosity and a desperate search for answers to my physical complaints. I was diagnosed with endometriosis, and for those of you who are unfamiliar, it is an excruciatingly painful menstrual disorder that can cause cysts that often rupture and, eventually, lead to infertility. I would become physically ill, have extreme pain in my back, pelvis, and head/neck, I was definitely anemic from heavy bleeding, etc. My doctor had told me to eat lean meats and fish to build up iron, which I became pretty religious about, but I couldn’t understand why every month became worse. I wasn’t experiencing any increased energy like my doctor predicted; if anything, I felt I was becoming sicker. I began to experience regular blood sugar peaks and troughs, something I had never experienced before. I know what you’re about to say: “She was eating too much sugar.” To which I reply that I’ve never had much of a sweet tooth. Occasionally, I would eat a Snickers bar or sip on soda pop, but I could never finish a full serving. I was often satisfied after consuming half of the sugary treat I was enjoying. After increasing my intake of chicken, turkey, and fish, I became personally familiar with the term “hangry,” as well as all the symptoms of a hypoglycemic episode: shakiness, anxiety, confusion, excessive sweating (even in winter, and I live in Cleveland), fatigue, and lightheadedness. My doctor was baffled because that was the only change to my diet I had made: increase lean meat intake. I refused to start an insulin regimen because I am too young to begin a lifetime of expensive medications and supplies. Then I watched “What the Health,” and began asking my doctor some serious questions. She encouraged me to experiment and try a vegan diet (she, too, has a healthy sense of curiosity and wanted to know from a patient perspective), so I did. 36 days later, I feel like a completely different person. I have not had a hypoglycemic episode in 35 days (the first day was quite a detox), I experienced my first ever pain-free menstrual cycle, I have loads more energy, and I’ve lost 10 much needed pounds of belly fat (I have 10 more to go before I’ll be totally convinced). My cholesterol plummeted from 230 to 185, and I was able to avoid taking a statin-type medication for the remainder of my life. The majority of my diet consists of fruits, vegetables, rice, quinoa, beans, oats, and nuts/seeds for snacks. So, for those skeptics and critics out there, I encourage you to give it a shot before claiming someone has a protein deficiency (I saw a comment earlier claiming the movie was made as a result of a protein deficiency). If nothing else, at least you’ll be getting the “recommended amount of fruits and vegetables” the healthcare industry is always preaching about.
Melissa- this is fantastic!!
I am not a vegan, a vegetarian, a paleo. Just a regular omnivore. 🙂 I do make a point to be health conscious when it comes to eating, and try my best to learn about whats going in my body. So when I saw all the hype surrounding “What the Health” and one of my meat-adoring friends completely switch to vegan, I naturally became extremely curious. Did some research about the facts surrounding the movie and stumbled upon your article.
It was so helpful and informative for a non-science background regular omnivore like me, and I love how even though youre definitely paleo biased you helped us understand the slick absolutes the biased movie tried to pull on us. I even learned more about healthy eating which is a plus for me. I fully believe your review gave the viewer as much facts as possible and left it up to our decision.
Idk what that Sara girl is talking about up there – if you wanna be vegan then be vegan. I don’t think anyone should be irritated that someone is actually doing people a favor and showing the entire gray situation instead of just, “meat gives you cancer. goodluck.”
yes
How much is Robb Wolf getting paid by the meat industry to write this article?
Wait, I thought you were on Big Sweet Potato’s payroll.
I wish I was on Big Sweet Potato’s payroll. I need to at least have some stock options or something for the amount of them I buy.
Yes!
YES!!! Please make the movie! Thanks for all you do!
Sí! Yes!
Absolutly!
🙂
Yes! Let’s present clear facts and possible solutions in a film about the practices of regenerative agriculture and the Ancestral Health model. The fear-mongering and twisting of facts need to stop!
YES! Thank you for this review! The world needs to hear and understand about real food and responsible and sustainable farming. Perhaps if people see the truth about foods in the grocery stores they will understand that manufactured foods, although highly palatable, do not fuel our bodies and are actually the basis of disease.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE A MOVIE!
Over the past 10-years, the food documentaries such as Forks Over Knives, Food Matters, Vegucated and What the Health, have revealed how the food and restaurant industry, including the beef, pork, chicken, and fish industry or conspiring with the pharmaceutical and hospital industry to keep profits for all involved.
This is a unique merry go round fattening Americans to seek hospitalization, where doctors issue prescriptions for medication followed by the restaurant and food commercials tempting people to eat. Remember every industry I mentioned is a for profit industry.
PS: Stop with all of the reality food television shows.
SOLUTION:
Everyone stop eating processed foods and all meats for two years while increasing the volumes of vegetables and fruits. Everyone will know when there is a change when you arrive at the grocery store to see the price of fruits and vegetable increase including toilet paper.
yes! but you need to get Matt Lalonde in there!
Yes
Yes! I would absolutely support such a project. It is irresponsible for films such as What the Health to blatantly mislead the public and make people terrified to eat a food that has been an essential part of our diet for, well, since we have been around on this planet! And yet, irresponsibility aside, the fact is these types of films are now becoming more mainstream (readily available for streaming on Netflix). They need to be held accountable, and a thoughtful well-done alternative needs to be offered!
Thank you so much for this review! AND YES! I will happily donate!
I had a visceral reaction about 15 minutes into the movie I was prepared to embrace because it was recommended by dear friends. What the Health was OBVIOUSLY not motivated by health concerns but instead by “save the animals” interests. It also shamelessly employed slippery science and fear mongering tactics to achieve that end. The selective misuse of compelling information about the food industry forced me to just stop watching. I’m a paleo fan because it works best for me but I did not recognize your name — sorry. However, I do not seek to create converts and I think it is detestable that others would seek to convert me through the use of biased and sham information. Hell yes! Count me in as a supporter for the movie you describe!
Yes!
A very good, concise and interesting article, but, can you please improve your grammar a little. The word ‘drug’ is not the past tense of ‘drag’, unless you’re speaking some form of southern U.S. colloquial dialect. It is also ‘en route’ not ‘in route’. Just two examples, but there are a few more that I’ll leave for now. Keep up the good work. Thank you.
You could argue and prove anything you desire as long as you have a bunch of people who believe in you. How can you, as a “former researcher,” can actually believe that breeding animals just to eat them on a mass scale is sustainable I cannot understand. It makes sense you are an expert in Paleolithic nutrition. Because you are part of the past.
As always, the argument changes. the easily verified lies in the film are ignored and then the topic shifts to hysterics of sustainability. When that is addressed the discussion shifts to morality. When the Least Harm principle paints veganism in a poor light, there is anger and lashing out. Believe what you want, this is like convincing religious zealots the earth is not 6,000 years old.
We live in a world that when we make an un-popular dietary choice, there is always people/organizations ready to debunk it with their opinion. Can’t we each just live in harmony with our own choices? Agree to disagree? What is the healthier way to eat–animal products, plant products? How about the main reason I am plant-based is to save the animals and not eat their flesh and everything else that has been processed with that flesh–you saw the film–you know what I am talking about!!
That is all well and good. Is it too much to ask the filmmakers to not lie about their claims? You have chosen to not eat animals due to moral issues. Is it too much to ask for honesty to be similarly valued? Or, are lies acceptable so long as it “furthers the cause?” It’s this type of thinking that brought us the last political cycle in the US.
Yes! Thanks for your response to the film
Yes
Yes!
The way to fight a one-sided discussion (the plentiful amount of vegan documentaries on Netflix) is to present the other side!
Yes!
Fabulous, easy to understand (sorry, Sara – you got sucked into the hype of the “documentary” and should have just read more slowing this article), and intelligently written article. Sending it to my son to de-brainwash what he got suckered into into in the movie. THANK YOU for taking the time, effort, and resulting head banging to watch and debunk the movie for the rest of us! 🙂
Thanks so much for your review. I watched it and am debating what to do. It’s eye opening , to say the least. I feel that diet is individual and we all don’t run well on the same foods. It’s a trial and error kind of thing.
Here’s the thing, the most disturbing part of the movie was that the so-called experts were sponsored by Dairy and meat companies, so of course they’ll never speak out against the companies who pay them. That’s my issue here though. Aren’t you also sponsored by the companies that supply the food you say is so healthy? I understand that you need to make money, but doesn’t that put you in a tight spot. What if you changed your mind about things? You can’t even do that or you’d lose money.
You are most likely completely genuine. I’m just saying that you can’t be considered unbiased. Right?
If you’re talking about Robb, he’s free to change any of his opinions at any time, and isn’t being sponsored by any food industry or specific foods. There really isn’t much money or opportunities for sponsorship from locally grown meat and vegetables, it’s not the best thing to be backing if you’re just concerned about making money. We’re very picky about our advertising on the site/blog/podcast too, and don’t let any of it dictate our message.
So the short answer is: no, food producers and companies don’t dictate our recommendations at all.
Yes!
Thank you for putting together such a meticulous review despite its opening you up to the ire of the Internet.
Hell, yes!
I thoroughly enjoyed your review!
People have an assumption that documentaries are “factual” but what we need to remember is that there is always a story they’re telling. Especially if it sounds simple – trust that much complexities are conveniently left out in order to tell a compelling, simple story.
I’m glad you brought up how inaccurate humans are at recalling past behaviour (not to mention, social desirability biases where we try to present ourselves ideally).
However, I want to point out that humans are also incredibly poor at predicting future behaviour. Asking if people would give money for a film/documentary doesn’t actually give any accurate indication of whether these very same people would actually give money when it comes to it (and please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying those who said yes are liars – but that’s just human behaviour science).
This is my first time on your website and I’m happy to have found it (I was searching for What the health reviews after “watching” it – I’m not camp paleo but I am pro-ancestral and avoid most processed foods, and I was cringeing through most parts at the poor scientific rigour shown, and barely made it through.)
Yes!
Most definitely yes! **i found your article after several of my athletes mentioned What the Health and started playing around with veganism. i was glad to see a rebuttal.
Absolutely yes!
Yes! It would be refreshing to have something produced which provides ALL the data. The common theme is to eat real food, humanely raised without artificial chemicals. I don’t believe, one size fits all. Learn to listen to your body and adapt your eating style based on what works best for you.
yes! Hey Robb, I’m an independent filmmaker and pale diet practicer. I’d love to work on a film with you to counter this nonsense. Thanks for the taking the time to write this rebuttal. The art of the documentary has been taken over by propaganda. Would love to be a part of something constructive and balanced.
Yes
I just finished watching. Right away I could tell this was a vegan agenda and had to fact check. I know personally from changing to a paleo diet, that within 6 weeks of changing my eating habits my cholesterol went down considerably, my skin (I have psoriasis), cleared up, my thyroid meds were lowered (I was diagnosed with hypo 12 years ago when I was in better shape and much more physically active) I lost 40lbs, slept better, and had more energy. I am not sure how they can claim an egg is just as bad as 5 cigarettes…just absurd. While I do agree with the dairy information they provided, as well as some of the facts of how our meat is raised, I do look for organic meats and eggs.
SUGAR is a demon!! It causes inflammation!!
I was waiting for them to say to eat more soy, then I would have lost it, that causes cancer as well! Its all about what works for you…
Thank you Robb
I wanted to believe in WTH. I really did. I spent $400 on vegan stuff. But the more I thought about it, the more I reached the following conclusions, So for what it’s worth, some comments/food for thought 🙂
1. You can’t trust studies. Studies are sponsored and funded by folks with their own angles/agendas that we aren’t privy to, and anyone who has ever done one knows you can make numbers point wherever you want them to go.
2. Even if there were such thing as an objective study, there are too many “confounders” to point the finger of “cause” at any particular dietary change. It’s just not possible to control all of the other factors that could impact the results in humans. Speaking of confounders…
3. “Processed meat”: Maybe it’s not so much the “meat” that should be focused on, but more the “processed” part, which negatively impacts both meats and plant-based foods. What about the toxic chemicals in fertilizers and pesticides, genetically altered foods/feed, preservative chemicals and dyes in processed foods (both meat AND plant-based), pharmaceutical chemicals/ antibiotics, steroids, unnatural chemical flavor-enhancers, etc. Could these perhaps be the real culprit? If so, wouldn’t it follow that processed plant-based foods are also dangerous?
4. What about the power of the human mind? The mind is creative, literally. Everything you see around you started with a single thought. I think Henry Ford said “Whether you believe you can, or believe you can’t – either way you are right”. How much did the sick folks in WTH want to believe the diet change would help? And wouldn’t the impact of reducing their intake of all those toxic medications also factor in?
5. You can’t force anyone in power to make any change, unless you can prove to them that it will save (or make) them money, otherwise give them more power. PERIOD. Nobody at the top of the food chain cares about what’s better, or healthier, or right, or about the impact on future generations. (Sad, but true)
6. If you “unpack” and focus on details and/or pointing out relatively small inconsistencies too much, you lose sight of the truth of the big picture, and the common sense that goes along with it.
7. We ALL have the power to effect change. Simply stand by your beliefs and lead by example. Don’t talk about it, DO it. If you believe eating plant-based food it right for you, seek it out and buy only that. If you believe eating only humanely raised unprocessed meat is right for you, seek out only those farms and give them your business. They are out there. Yes we will have to pay more for it. But if EVERYONE did this; if EVERYONE did their part, then the economics of supply and demand would prevail, the prices would go down, and our ecosystem would have no choice but to change and evolve.
8. What you CAN use and rely upon is your God-given common sense (totality of the circumstances, big picture, taking everything into consideration truth), as well as the “blink” principle, which is when you allow your super-computer subconscious brain to take all of the information which you know at the moment (as well as other relevant information you are not even consciously aware of) and process it “in the blink of an eye” – leaving you with an impression, a feeling, an intuition, a gut feeling (sorry, couldn’t help myself 😉 and often the RIGHT answer. The truth. YOUR truth.
BTW “Blink” is an amazing read and I highly recommend it to everyone:
(Blink: The power of thinking without thinking – by Malcolm Gladwell)
Anyway, with of the above in mind, here is what my common sense and “blink” processing tells me:
1. The human body (as with all other species) has evolved to survive on and process certain kinds of food. Up until only maybe the last 100 years, for most humans, this has been whole, natural, minimally processed foods, without chemical or unnatural additives. Common sense dictates that It would be unwise to stray from this kind of food. If we do so, we should EXPECT to become sick and diseased. It is foolish and arrogant to assume our bodies can somehow miraculously and magically handle a drastic change in our diets without consequences.
Therefore I have decided that this is what is right FOR ME;
To eat a diet made primarily of whole natural organic plant-based food. More raw than cooked. I will try to grow my own if possible (so I can control the treatments the soil & plants receive). I will buy as much organic as possible, and avoid processed foods and those with chemical additives as much as possible. I will not be fanatical about meat and meat products, and will not turn them down if offered by friends at a dinner party, but I will limit consumption drastically compared to my past eating habits. I will seek out and purchase only humanely raised/processed or wild caught animal products whenever possible. I will not feed my family anything I would not feed myself. I am willing to sacrifice financially to do this, because for me, it is the right thing to do, not only for my own health, but also to do my part to help improve food choices for others, and out of my respect and empathy for animals and all living things.
There is no judgment. Everyone walks their own road and creates their own life experience. That is how the world has come to be as it is, and how it will continue to evolve. We are all a product of our own thoughts and choices, and we all have equal power to change the way things are, by our ACTIONS.
Just my 2 cents…
Yes!
Thank you very much for this interesting and detailed review Robb. I recently explored being vegan with my husband and daughter and we had some really interesting experiences. It’s such a personal choice and has to feel right to the individual and be done consciously. I agree with you that there is no one size fits all – we are all individuals and have to chose which way we want to live based on where we are in our lives. I do think it’s wonderful that people are discussing this subject with such passion. It’s about time we all starting paying more attention and asking questions about where we stand in terms of our relationship with food and ourselves.
Yes
“It’s arguable if veganism is actually healthy long term, but I’m all about folks experimenting, just be rational and honest about your experience.”
While this specific documentary was only a small part of why I am now a vegan, it was a part of it, never-the-less. What really opened my eyes was the How Not To Die book and the China Study. Both are rather compelling and really show what a plant-based diet can do for a person.
I would say veganism is rather healthy long term considering the Seventh Day Adventist (pretty sure that’s the right one, I don’t belong, so may be wrong) started a big part of the movement and they tend to live longer than most other people, except a few odd cultures across the globe.
To be honest, as you asked for, I think vegan is the right way to eat, as it aligns with my morals. This may not be the case for everybody. I tried to make it pretty simple for myself and realize, the cow eat plants to make it strong (not always the right plants if it’s factory farmed….huge issue) and many people eat it thinking it will make them strong.
However, the plants the cow eats are what we really need and we don’t need it filtered through their meat. I am not the type to tell anybody what they should or shouldn’t eat, but I do think our world consumes far too much meat.
Just my two cents. Overall, I found this to be a very thorough review and I would urge those that didn’t care so much for What the Health to watch a few others on veganism and plant-based diets you can find on Netflix. Veduction is a good one and there are several others.
Yes!!
As a little anecdote I have a vegan, permaculture aquaintance – and she told me that the first few years they were on their land they did “vegan permaculture” (ie. without animal inputs) – but she said after a few years they made the decision to use their neighbors goat manure for their beds – “what were we to do?” she asked me “I could use that or buy my vegetables in the supermarket, and back then I couldn’t buy organic in the supermarket”. In the permaculture world I hear people talk about “vegan permaculture” all the time – and that not having animals would free up all this land, but in an arid climate such as where I live (Spain), this is really not feasible. I haven’t had any animals on my land yet (don’t have the infrastructure), and I can grow max 1m3 of soil per year – not a lot of food you can get from that…
If you talk to people like Jack Spircko, Joel Salatin, Paul Wheaton and Mark Sheperd – I am certain they will help you with plenty of contacts. I think they would love to spread the word about Regenerative Agriculture and how it can support humans and ecology.
Yes, I kick in some cash on a crowd funded ethical omnivore documentary. I would love to be an ethical omnivore
YES!!
Thank you for taking the time to go through all of this and for providing links to studies, etc.
Yes!
Yes!
As far as going vegan, I would not change your entire metabolism based on one film. If this film was sponsored by the vegan/vegetarian group, you can rest assured that their information and logic is biased and flawed. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that cancer is caused by insulin elevation and carbohydrates. Vegan diets are high in carbs. The way I answer your concerns is the following:
If we stack up the risk of a high carb diet which is counter to your basic metabolism and carbs are drugs just like anything else with the most severe chronic disease side effects, against the potential risk from the additives in the meat industry, carbs are a 1000% more toxic than anything you could come up with in the meat. For that reason, the first move is to go low carb high fat, then if you want to correct what you are worried about, then you can buy grass fed animals for meat. These farms are everywhere now. An additional thought has to do with the positive changes in liver function like the immune system with the ketogenic diet. The liver in the proper metabolic setting will be much more capable of handling toxic insults.
The vegan / vegetarian approach is absolutely the worst diet you can pursue. Because it lacks essential amino acids and fatty acids, your body has to digest itself for building blocks necessary for repair. For example, if your brain cell needs repair, you might have to digest a muscle cell to get the building blocks necessary. These diets are virtually all low calorie, so not only are you deficient in life sustaining components, you are also starving causing severe physiologic stress. If you talk with any ninety plus year old, you will find that they ate large amounts of meats, eggs and dairy off the shelf in the grocery. Food for thought!
Michael D. Fox, MD
yes
Yes…. I’ve been waiting for someone to suggest that!
Yes! I would gladly donate to an “ethnical omnivore” documentary.
Yes.
Thanks for doing such a good job of replying to all of the comments.
Just want to say how much I appreciate your efforts. I really get your hesitation. This is literally the first blog I ever commented on. I’m not even a Paleo person, just appreciate the thoughtful research and your attention span. Thanks again, wish there were more like you!
YES! Thanks for this review Robb. I would gladly support a project that covers this topic in a more scientific manner.
Instead of emphasizing the differences between vegans and paleo folks, I would like to see a work showing the commonalities we share. We are all trying to eat in a way that keeps us and the planet healthy.
‘Factual’ errors in percentages or not, If you’ve read The China Study (which I doubt) You’d realize that a plant based lifestyle IS the healthiest lifestyle for humans. It’s based on 20 years of scientific peer reviewed documentation. The facts are there, meat is not better in our diet. Period
Yea, good luck with that: https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Steve: There’s a small but important difference between reading the actual study and reading someone’s biased interpretation of it. Some (not all) vegans are quick to assume bias or shilling when someone produces alternative sources that challenge their established beliefs, but Campbell’s interpretation of the China Study and What The Health? “documentary” pretty clearly demonstrate that vegans themselves often engage in using shoddy science, cherry picking and outright lies to promote their cause.
I very much appreciate the meticulous work done on this review and by Denise Minger in exposing fallacies and misuse of data to reach predetermined conclusions in Campbell’s book *about* China Study.
Yes
I transitioned from a SAD eating lifestyle to Paleo years ago. It was the best I ever felt, and saw healthy weight loss, reduction in hyperhydrosis, improved skin quality, improved libido, etc.
Over time I lost sight of that lifestyle and got caught up in the happy hour/bar food/late night scene with coworkers, and felt awful. Plus I was told by my doctor that my triglycerides were going up and had macroamylasemia (which I was told is harmless). I saw What the Health and gave the vegan lifestyle a shot, even though I was extremely skeptical with the “facts” being presented. But there are people I admire who are vegan, like Rich Roll, and decided to test it out. I immediately saw weight reduction and skin improvement too, but I needed grains and fruit to help me get full. Veggies and legumes alone weren’t enough.
It didn’t take long, I started to feel AWFUL. Post-meal feelings were like I had eaten plates of pasta. My blood sugar must’ve been through the roof? I knew I had to abandon ship and go back to what I know worked before: a paleo style diet, low in high glycemic foods and with healthy sources of fat.
I don’t know, maybe I was going about the vegan diet the wrong way, but it just doesn’t make sense to me that sustainably raised meat is bad for us. It was definitely a part of our ancestor’s diet.
The one line in the documentary which fired up my “BS” meter was when Kip compared our digestive system to a bear’s, saying that we weren’t meant to eat meat because the two systems were different. But then followed that up with (not verbatim): “some of the biggest, strongest animals on the planet are plant-based. Like Rhinos.”
Kind of just disproved yourself there, Kip.
Possibly, regarding the funding issue.
While I like the thought of having some type of moral ammunition to bring to the table against what I perceive as ‘gentle talking down to’ from vegans, I have an annoying skepticism that agrees with you when you say they’re ‘kicking our asses.’
It’s an interesting debate however: Do the means of religious-type zeal justify the means if it furthers a cause? One could argue ‘No.’ from a scientific integrity standpoint… whereas that same religious-type zeal can generate an ass-ton of kickstarter funding.
As a health practitioner, the truth seems to lie in grey areas that you reference and unfortunately those grey areas are rarely ‘sexy.’
All of that long-windedness being said: If you provide more information to us on what a potential topic might be (and I hope that elaboration isn’t in comments above this somewhere… that’s a hellaciously long comments section so tl:dr all the comments) I would at least be open to hearing more about it.
Thanks also for writing this piece. It was a nice read.
Yes! In for $100.
And thank you for such an in-depth response to the film. I was feeling completely lost for 2 hours and you’ve brought be back to reality.
YES
Yes please. I’m in…
Yes!
Resounding YES. I have LONG wanted an ‘ethical omnivore’ documentary; the closest I have ever come to seeing anything along those lines was At The Fork.
Yes. Definitely in to contribute to a quality documentary.
I didn’t make it through the entire review, mainly because I didn’t have the time, but what I did read was useful. I saw this movie and it confirmed what I knew or suspected about meat in this country. I was surprised to hear about the collusion of the government agencies and dairy, eggs, and fish being disease makers. Oh, and that sugar doesn’t cause inflammation. I noticed the ridiculous interviews and the leaps from one study to grand claims. I noticed the testimonials of the people who moved to plant based eating.
So my take away from the movie was to not eat processed meat or any meat from the stores or any products from those animals like milk, eggs, and dairy, but there is nothing wrong with eating wild meat like an Elk that you kill in the forest and bring home for the table. I now have doubts about eggs, dairy, and fish. I don’t do much milk, but I love ice cream (Breyer’s Chocolate Chip Mint). I eat eggs and saw them as health and a way to get protein, but now I’m not so sure and need to follow up on this bit of info. I love fish especially tuna and salmon, but the movie has made me nervous about fish. It was my safe haven, thinking if I just get wild caught fish I’ll be good. I’m still inclined to eat fish, but surely turned off of chicken, pork, and beef. I like basing my decisions on facts, but until I have all the facts I go with my gut.
Thank you for taking the time to write this review.
I appreciate it because throughout the moview I kept thinking I needed more informaton because this is not complete convincing me. What we need are facts not propoganda and this review has tried to give us facts.
Yes!
My cardiologist has been on me to be vegan/vegetarian and insisted I watched “fork over knifes.” It had no effect on me. As a nurse, I was curious about this What the Health. I’m not on any diet ‘team’, but I am on the critical thinking/presenting scientific fact team. While I could also point out the valid points and the sketchy ones, my biggest fear is people believing that in simply 2 weeks’ time they too can stop taking all of their meds. Not once did this film mention ‘don’t do this without consulting your MD first.’ No, you NEED those heart drugs. Yes, statins HAVE been shown to save lives (and tho I’m a nurse I’m not pro ‘big pharma’). No you won’t ever get off your insulin if in fact you took units like that dude did at first (yes, you can decrease with healthy eating.) You have to be weaned off the anti-depressants/narcotics (not really buying someone just stopped taking their highly addictive narcs in our opioid addicted country, either) so-there’s all that.
Ultimately….I work with the elderly. They lived to ripe old ages eating meat and dairy. That’s while smoking and drinking. IMO which means nothing, intuitively I think it is the GMO feed, the hormones, the bacterias, the animal illnesses, the processing, preservatives, the chemicals and the corporate take-over of our food supply that have tainted all the above (though I also agree, cow’s milk to straight-up drink is not needed.) Just wanted to look for alternative views and critique of the movie-as you stated, it was compelling but again, I’m peer-review/science minded. But it can’t hurt people to try as long as they DON’T JUST STOP TAKING MEDICATIONS AFTER 2 WEEKS.
“I work with the Elderly”
Survivorship bias. The ones that died, you don’t work with….
*facepalm*
Yes! Didn’t view even five minutes of the film before my intelligence was severely assaulted. I immediately googled “review of ‘What the Health'” and yours came to the forefront. Couldn’t read it fast enough.
YES
thanks for the article robb.
we need more voices like yours on the airways. see you at the next conference.
I watched “What the Health” this evening – even though my “bias alarm bells” started going off in the first few minutes, I stuck it out. Having lived through the propagation of a variety of diet fads, televised expert public nutritional advisories and governmentally recommended food pyramids, I can tell you that the facts have spoken and the verdict is officially in…the world of proper human nutrition is confusing as hell to navigate!
I grew up like I’m sure many kids did – my orange juice was reconstituted by my parents, using a frozen cylindrical orange object (birthed from something akin to a biscuit can) mixed with water in a pitcher…voila, orange juice. My vegetables came from a can – creamed corn, petit pois green peas, coin size sliced carrots which appeared to have been “styled” with a wavy crinkle edge soap cutting tool. You get the point – I ate what my parents fed me. A balanced meal was meat, a vegetable and a starch. So, roast and gravy, canned corn niblets and instant mashed potatoes followed by a little slice of Sara Lee pound cake with a dollop of Cool Whip constituted a balanced meal. There were so few people around back then who were talking about nutrition the way we are today – my parents were feeding us according to whatever government food guidelines were holding court at the time and doing what they thought was right for us. I remember Snackwells cookies being touted as some kind of health food. Wow, they’re fat free! Fat makes you fat so you can eat the whole box and no harm no foul. They’re totally fat free! I remember everyone eating low fat and watching those family members putting on more weight and being so bewildered.
I had my first fresh steamed vegetables at around age 19 and felt like quite the revolutionary. I’ve studied so much about food and nutrition since then. The internet is a resource that we simply didn’t have back in the day. As much misinformation and foolishness as there is on the web, you still have this beautiful opportunity to dig deep, research and collaborate that just wasn’t readily available before. The library was always an awesome resource (and still is), but the nutrition books followed the trends of the day and the word back then was low fat.
I went through the confusing egg days – eggs are good, eggs are bad, eggs are good again…or are they??? I’ve done Sugar Busters & Atkins. I’ve gone vegetarian-ish and paleo-ish.
After all this, here’s what I currently feel some of the major no-brainer points are: processed foods are not good for you, the government and all major “traditional” health organizations are lobbied by and/or funded by major corporations with deep pockets and their info is not trustworthy as our health is not their main concern, that decentralization of the food supply just makes sense on every level and that fresh, ethically sourced foods should be available to all.
So, here’s the thing. While I can’t wholeheartedly get behind any doc that uses misinformation, confirmation bias, shock and gross out tactics to make a point, I have to say that “What the Health” did right (as others have done before them) was to continue to bring attention to these negative issues surrounding centralized food production.
On the other hand…I consider myself to be an informed adult viewer when it comes to nutrition and although I knew full well that I was watching propaganda, I really did think towards the end…hmm…should I go 100% vegan for couple of weeks?
That’s powerful advertising! Like many, I landed on your review after watching the doc to “deprogram” and regain some perspective. Thank you for your well written review. Needed & timely!
I’m more concerned for the really young, impressionable people watching this, like my teen daughter, who see something and don’t have any doc as engaging from the Paleo point of view to counter it. So, yes, I’m in. Please make a well rounded, well researched, unsnarky film with a message delivered in such a way that it can reach teens, adults and seniors. We all need real human nutrition info that we can count on. It’s an information jungle out there. Everyone’s an expert and everyone claims that their way is right (just like our current political climate). Very confusing!
Thanks, great feedback.
Yes and I agree with Squatchy! Excellent write up and thanks for taking the time to provide intel!
Hell YES! (And thank you for the well-informed review, sparing me having to watch it — which would only have been out of curiosity. I was on the vegan train for one long,
miserable year during which I have never been more unwell. Your work is wonderful and I am grateful to you and others like you who are truly changing people’s lives one bite of grass-fed beef at a time.
Yes!
Yes!
I would be so happy to help fund the ethical omnivore documentary.
I kept waiting for Kip to interview you… get the alternative view.. talk about grains and gluten. But it never came to be. (Our movie will be different. Maybe we can even promote how to be a paleo vegan and achieve optimal health for folks who just don’t want to eat meat!)
As someone who has lost weight and feels so much better on a paleo diet, but for moral reasons would prefer not to eat meat, I’m constantly sucked into the vegan religion by these documentaries. Rob, you are a true north in these matters – you consistently bring us back down to earth and with logic, humor, and integrity. And for me personally I’m reminded that it really is okay and beneficial to continue to avoid grains and include some amount of meat in my diet.
Having said that, I’m thrilled that you and Kip will be doing a joint event. Because at the end of the day, even though vegans seem to be blind to any points of view or studies relating to a diet that includes meat, there is actually a lot of common ground…. the desire for sustainable farming (especially vegetables!), ethical treatment of animals, and optimal health for humans. We can all agree on that!
Yes.
Yes. To see the otherside of this matter. Much more the 100$ for knowledge, above all!
But Robb!
How will any one, apart from those who study anatomy and nutrition, be able to idenify What is the “healthy” these days? It is for sure, and undeniable, that we have to practice exercises.
OK, 1 to go.
What about our DIET?
The population from many countries eat what is cheapest or the most addictive, sadly.
I am lost. Really. “What the Health” made me think about all of it. But, as anyone, I am in doubt.
Even my nutritionist is in doubt wheter to trust or not each study. Because none of them is realized with the major look or considering historycal and evolution facts.
What should we do, what should we follow? Where is the best and trustworthy place to gather information regarding this matter?
Please, guide me somewhere. I see you answering some of the comments.
Thanks.
Well, it can be confusing if you don’t start with any sort of good framework or basis. That’s why we view diet through an evolutionary lens, and start from there. You can also learn to really be able to read and understand studies (how different types of studies work, methods, statistics, etc). You can also follow people like Chris Kresser, Bill Lagakos, Denise Minger, and a number of others who really understand this stuff and write about it.
YES!
Thank you for the article, Robb.
YES
Set up a crowdfunding campaign for the movie!
YES!!!
Yes!!
A well rounded diet makes so much sense. If animals weren’t suppose to be food then why do other animals eat them? I think the dioxins in the movie really got to me, to say it’s all over the grass that the animals eat but evidently it’s not in the gardens where the vegetables come from?
Again Yes!
Great article and I respect your views. But I believe that there are no excuse for animal cruelty. Not even there’s a movie saying that meat is super healthy.
Rob,
I watched the documentary because a friend of mine told me that I would never view food the same way again. She was right, for the most part but It made me afraid to even eat for a couple of days. If food is this bad then all of us should be sick disease walking humans. I mean really I have tried to adopt a healthier lifestyle over the years and I’ve made some big changes. But what the heck will we eat if everything is bad for you??? I think the documentary when a bit over board and towards the end none of the three people that did testimonials told us what their diet actually consisted of that allowed them to get off of some very serious medications. In two weeks time you would have me believe that a women who was destined to live with a walker was able to trash the walker and finally go outside and walk a few hundred feet without assistance? No way possible, but hey stranger things have happened. Can you tell me what happened to the people in Duplin County? That pig farm was disgusting!!!
Thanks again.
I couldn’t finish watching the film even though I’m a long time vegan. Found it annoying, dishonest and sensationalizing and shouldn’t be used to judge all vegans. I believe there is enough sound arguments regarding thriving on a vegan diet (just as you can thrive on other diets), but I guess it doesn’t make for an exciting movie.
In the end, I think what makes veganism a bit special as a diet choice is that it’s not just about your own health. It also takes into account the environment as well as animal and human ethics. Which is why I think you shouldn’t be so quick to judge the vegan movement as a whole based on the annoying ones in the group (unfortunately they are often the loudest).
In the end, to me there seems to be enough evidence to safely assume that a (balanced and informed) vegan diet at the very least is “just as good” as any other diet. Combined with the above mentioned factors, that makes the choice an obious one for me.
Yes….thanks for writing the review. Insightful and entertaining as always
Hey Rob,
Thanks for the review. I am not a vegan or vegetarian however I have a couple of questions. #1 What do vegans/vegetarians have to gain by us not eating meat? It’s clear what the meat industry gains and others connected to it by us continuing the same way. #2 I didn’t see you address anything about the pig farming waste being put into predominantly minority communities? Maybe I missed it but that’s what I was actually looking for in reading this review. Did you do any research on that?
Started watching the film and after 20 mins I just had to press pause and start googling. Glad to read about others with critical minds who don’t believe everything they see on TV.
I recalled seeing Joaquin Phoenix’s name in the opening credits and I know he is a vegan, so the alarm bells started ringing for me straight away.
Thanks for the article Robb. It makes complete sense to me.
Also, I can’t resist typing this… Is it just me, or has Kip got the most annoying voice ever heard on TV??!!!!
Yes. Totally would. And I’m vegan myself. Haha
Thanks amigo.
So I hesitantly sat down last night to try and watch “What the Health”. I didn’t do a whole lot of research before watching it, however I did see a lot of facebook groups discussing it. I knew it was going to be similar to “Forks over Knives” and other documentaries a like.
I think I made it to the 5 minute mark and had to pause, take a deep breath and resume. I only managed another 20 minutes and reading this review I’m glad I didn’t continue.
I’m personally a qualified nutritionist and honestly the claims in this documentary are frightening and the fact people are listening to this as gospel is more frightening. The facts are biased and boarder line unethical, in my opinion.
Honestly, I’ve tried veganism. I tried it for 18 months and for me, it wasn’t suitable. I suffered with severe cold sores, gastrointestinal issues, low energy, weight loss and hormonal imbalances. YES I did try multiple different ways to be vegan, YES I tried to make it work for me and my health and YES I sought out professional help (even though I am nutritionist) and I couldn’t justify being vegan after all that. I do not believe there is one superior diet, everyone has to find out what works for them. If you feel amazing and are healthy on a vegan diet than good for you, however if you don’t then thats fine.
Thank you Robb Wolf for this review and I would love to see documentary that highlights the benefits of an omnivorous diet!
Thanks for the detailed and balanced analysis. I started looking up reviews on What The Health because I was wondering about some of the claims. I’ve been a vegetarian for 20 years but I still consume eggs and dairy. My way of eating works for me but I wasn’t so sure about going vegan entirely. I do think there’s no one way of eating that is ideal for everyone and each person has to see what works best for himself or herself.
Yes! Would definitely help fund your film!
Yes – definitely Yes!
Yes, I would contribute money to a well done, transparent film produced discussing healthy practices for raising food and for eating. I do embrace the paleo/primal view of eating (w a dose of Weston A. Price), however, I am open to other approaches. I could not make it through more than 30 minutes of the propaganda laden “What The Health,” so I came to Robb’s site to read about it. Now I am better prepared to talk to all of the “What The Health” groupies.
I would be willing to donate. Thanks for the review. I almost fell into the trap of believing the hype stoked by What the Health, until I read your review and got my sanity back.
YES!
Yes
Yes
First of all any review from someone who is an author of the paleo diet is obviosuly biased people please please educate yourselve and do a little research instead of reading the definition of statistical significance. It appears we need to live on our own self sustained farms to consume healthy meat. There has been multiple studies over the past ten years linking meat and particularlt processed meats with childhood lymphoma. See the study 1999 from Shumin Zhang from Harvard which showed increase in Non-Hodgkins lymphoma when you consume beef, chicken, pork or lamd daily. This study used data that began in 1976 studying 121,700 nurses found that a diet high in trans fats was associated with a cancer of the immune system. The World health organization WHO announced that processed meats are carcingenic after 22 scientists from around thw world reviewed over 800 studies. This is who categorized it as a group 1 carcinogen the same category as tobacco.
Please read the literature. I am not a vegan but desire to be one.
Jan- did you MISS that in my open paragraph I said I was clearly biassed? How do you miss things like this? And are you REALLY dismissing the importance of relative vs total risk? This is if not the foundation of science it is absolutely how we make sense of our inquiries. Please, try again.
I chose a vegan diet because as a University cardiologist, I am empowered to recommend to patients scientific data that promotes their well being. Currently, the only data to reverse established atherosclerosis is a vegan diet and it is the only diet approved by Medicare for payment to teach my cardiac patients (Pritikin and Ornish Intensive Cardiac Rehabilitation reversal programs). I am not a vegan doctor, I am a doctor that uses every modality, diet, exercise, stress management, detoxification, supplements, sleep therapy, cannabinoids if needed, whatever to promote the well being and longevity of my patients. You eat meat, are not a doctor, but like Nina Teicholz, highlight and intimate that doctors that eat only plants cannot be objective. Wrong. Show me a study that grass fed or grain fed cow food reverses atherosclerosis while not destroying the planet, and I will have to add it to my patient therapy. It does not exist. Only data that more meat, more death in there largest studies ever done (EPIC, NHP, PHS, HSPH, Germany). I point out all the errors you made with the names of the physicians in the movie (Kim not Ken Williams and many more). It is irresponsible of you to spout off to your loyal but uninformed followers. 4-5 recent studies confirm that while refined sugar is in no way a health food, consumption, even in sugar sweetened beverages as studies by the University of Toronto School of Medicine in a massive review earlier this year, does not correlate with the onset of DM type 2. In fact, the ADA, Joslin Diabetes Center and the UK Diabetes Organization call it a “myth” that dietary sugar causes DM type 2. In fact, it is calorie excess of all kinds, including animal products particularly due to their calorie density, that drive DM2. So eat your plants, skip your wolf, and read the science by doctors who care enough about their patients to discussion nutrition, a very small slice of all physicians.
Hmm… I’m on an island, and I’m starving. In front of me there is a dead carcass; just a few metres to the left, there’s an apple tree.
Rotting meat, or juicy apple… I know which I’d choose!
The world will not simply change; the dairy and meat industry will not simply go away. Too much money is at stake, and that’s what it’s truly about.
When cigarettes first came out, nobody ever considered the health problems; my point is we live in a changing generation, one which has beneficial alternatives, and new facts and studies.
You may not agree with the film, but common sense agrees that natural food will always be healthier than dead animal flesh.
And on a side note, who gives us the right to run slaughter camps for the butchering of innocent beings?
If the tables were turned, what an existence you would have to endure.
Enjoy your island! And once the apples are gone, and the soil is depleted, and you need to fertilize the soil to grow more food…you will use animals, and to some degree you will eat those animals. And in fact, we are ALL on an island. It’s called The Earth.
And as to the money issues, please…the grain industry makes meat paleo in comparison. The whole system is sick and broken, planet of the vegans is not the solution.
I’m a vegetarian (for a variety of reasons). Some of the longest living peoples on the planet are vegetarian so it’s clearly not an intrinsically unhealthy choice. Then again, there’s the Eskimo Paradox. They eat almost the exact opposite of that and have thrived generation after generation.
Bottom line: there are people who’ve had all sorts of diets who’ve lived long and healthy lives. It just kills me when people talk about you HAVE to eat this or that way. Anybody who says this needs to leave their house and go to a public place. See all those old people? They have wildly different diets and guess what? They’re not dead. That should tell you something. I can’t handle people who will insist something is true even though the evidence all around them says otherwise. Side note: sorry to say it, but the paleos are second only to the vegans when it comes to being die-hard and preachy about diet (but for some reason, they don’t get the same amount of ridicule for it).
Jason- All great points and although i lean heavily on a paleo template, I fully embrace ANYTHING that helps the individual to thrive. I will split hairs on how annoying one camp is vs the other…the paleos are not suggesting everyone who does not follow their way should die! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F63uJjz99fc
Re the Eskimo Paradox, these people, living at the extremes of the habitable environment, did not live long lives, dying under 40 years of age and with osteoporosis from their ketotic diet. Not like the largely vegetarian, plant-based centenarians of the Blue Zones, none of whom ate much in the way of animal products. And of course in Loma Linda, bizarrely a Blue Zone in the US, we have vegans living and thriving into their 10th decade and beyond.
I couldn’t help but stop by to say something.
There are many issues with this article and many issues with some of the commenters approach.
Over my short 22 (almost 23) years of life, I have come to realize many things regarding the human mind, but one thing that applies to this that I’ve come to realize and that people like to blindly follow what they either feel comfortable with, or what they fear. It’s why many nazis followed Hitler. Most people rather kill others and be saved, then to speak out and face the chamber. People rather live where they’ve always lived than to move to another country that seems “not ideal.”
Many of you commenters are clearly blindly following Robb Wolf because what he says is comfort. What he says is what you know. It’s not sacrificing your social status by claiming “I’m vegan” at a party when everyone else is enjoying cake. And it’s not sacrificing something that tastes so good like cake after eating it for so many years, or sacrificing that salt and fat laden bacon and chewy eggs and ooy gooey (addicting) cheese for something less palatable like fruits and veggies which lacks that high fat that makes the brain think its getting so much food, although nutritionally void.
There is comfort and a feeling of social security in following the same thing you’re used to, so if someone says “what you’re doing is healthy, just change the source and drop a few (less palatable and addicting) things, and you’re the penicule of health” and people go “yes! My life is whole!”
There is fear in “everything you’ve been doing is wrong, do the exact opposite of what you were doing, and you will be free of poor health.” But there’s the unwritten realization that you also sacrifice some of your social liberties and the idea of changing a habit that has been ingrained in your for decades. How can you possibly break such habits? You can barely form the new habit of brushing your teeth in the afternoon or watching less tv. And how can I give up cheese, or chicken? There has to be another way… So you go to Robb Wolf to find that comfort in your bad habits instead of seeking the truth.
It doesn’t matter to you that people have been eating paleo all along and have been dying of the same diseases and believing that it’s all genetics because blaming genes is easier than changing habits and social security. It doesn’t matter that the creator of the Atkins diet (same as the paleo, just a different name) died of the same leading causes of death that SAD dieters die from.
What everyone needs to do is find research free of biases and you will find the truth. Finding the truth is hard, but it’s not impossible. You don’t have to believe the film, and you don’t have too believe Robb, but you have to believe solid evidence. You have to believe that someone with already high cholesterol can’t have much of a difference in cholesterol if more is added. You have to believe that these “health” organizations are sponsored by people that can make any research findings biased. You have to belief that anatomically we are nothing like omnivores.
Quit blindly following and seek the truth and the truth is what’s liberating, not comfort and social security.
There’s a big flaw in your argument, Ayana. That’s the ugly fact that vegans have the same all-cause mortality as omnivores, and differences in death rates from particular diseases between the groups very seldom reach statistically significant proportions. Vegans get cancer and heart disease and diabetes. The people who do have somewhat of an edge are the pescetarians. My source: Jack Norris. Norris is a vegan nutritionist and activist with more years of experience than you’ve been alive. http://jacknorrisrd.com/
There’s one glaring exception to the health problems. Vegans have twice the rate of neurological diseases as omnivores and pescetarians. Source: Michael Greger, vegan activist and nutritionist who’s been practicing for more years than you’ve been alive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KeRwdIH04
Even vegans who are doing everything properly may fail to thrive and be pale, frail, and ailing. Source: Michael Klaper, vegan nutritionist and activist, in practice for more years than you’ve been alive. http://www.indiadivine.org/showthread.php/1177910-Fwd-The-Vegan-Health-Study-from-Michael-Klaper-MD-very-long-email.
Ginny Messina, nutritionist and vegan activist with more years of practice under her belt than you’ve been alive, also honestly addresses the disease risks and incidences of vegans. Further, she watched What the Health, and has very little good to say about it. Don’t take my word for it, read her review for yourself: http://www.theveganrd.com/2017/07/a-science-based-and-vegan-perspective-on-the-new-what-the-health-documentary/.
Where did I find Ginny’s review? Robb Wolf linked to it!
Your failure to contextualize or support your claims about paleo-dieters’ health relative to that of vegans makes your claims very dodgy. Without context and evidence, you’re merely expressing a personal opinion in the form of a polemic.
Then you go for another very dodgy pillar for your argument: your assumptions that people other than your 22, nearly 23, year-old self are incapable of thinking for themselves, don’t ever do any personal research, are too lazy to make any changes, too afraid of social stigma to acknowledge their food status should they go vegan, too gluttonous and unself-controlled to say no to a slice of cake…so everybody who is not a purist vegan is in search of a guru who’ll tell us any lies we want to hear so that we can stay in our comfort zone. This is pure arrogance. You do not know what anybody except yourself thinks or believes.
I could go through your list item by item, but will content myself by referring you here: 6,850,000 recipes for vegan cakes! https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=_shAWunBKYeD0wKE2bbQDw&q=vegan+recipes+for+cake&oq=vegan+recipes+for+cake&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l2j0i22i30k1l5j0i22i10i30k1j0i22i30k1l2.404.5558.0.5912.28.18.0.2.2.0.332.1604.0j1j4j1.6.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..20.8.1628.0..46j0i46k1j0i131k1.0.M-jeHDqwCbE.
I shouldn’t really comment, as I didn’t (couldn’t finish ) watching the documentary (or as one of the comments referred to is as “crapumetary haha). And I don’t have time to thoroughly read Rob’s review. The concept of ethical omnivore is very appealing and a real documentary to give a more balanced view. When the documentary compared eating eggs as being as bad as smoking cigarettes, what the actual…?! Support local farmers as much as possible, grow our own veggies and be open minded and use common sense when you eat.
Hi Robb,
great job with this!! I have been following your stuff for many years now and are constantly amazed by the work you put in. So thank you for making this piece and for all the great work you do in educating people and making information easily accessible for people.
And the it would be a YES of course.
Humankind is sucking up to mindfulness.
Yes! Veganism is spreading like wildfire and needs to be reined in. Would love to contribute.
Quite an extensive article. I looked up reviews of “What The Health” as a family member thought it had profound flaws. As painful as it may be at times, I try to look at other perspectives. You sure spent a lot of time on this article. I’ll complete/sumamarize my commentary with the following:
1. Any study and stats can be manipulated to provide a perspective of interest.
2. Atkins sued Dr. Greger contesting who was right and lost… I’ll keep this simple. They also went bankrupt afterwards.
3. I agree to certain degree that Veganism, is an …ism. This places the approach on a philosophical basis. Same as Paleo where validation for the approach is based on a theory of how Homo Sapiens once lived (recommend reading Sapiens). Plant Based Diet is evidence based perspective. Look at a pile of studies and see what they say. Hundreds.
At the end, I have yet to see someone reverse CVD with paleo diet. Let’s see who makes it to the cath-lab. The ultimate outcome of health and happiness is not just based on diet (I think we both agree on that). Happiness has a balance in cost (see Happiness Index). If Kip has some background of fringe Veganism, it is nothing compared to the devastation brought upon the planet by the now self destructive nature of the sole surviving human species. I think your article has done a disservice by simply providing those seeking to validate their visceral resistance to change in improving their lifestyle. This is what is most unfortunate.
I see, over anc over, people wanting to know where all the grass-fed beef will come from. To me, it’s simple. The prairies carried billions of bison, when white men first cams to the USA. If cattle are no longer to be feed-logged, that frees up much of the soy-and-corn land. Restore it to prairie and there’ll be fnougn grass to feed the beef animals
This would be a highly beneficial move. Well-managed grassland, with a good guild of grazers and browsers, becomes richer and denser every year. It builds topsoil. It sequestrates carbon dioxide. It generates oxygen. It catches and hold rainfall, no matter how violent the storm, replenishing aquifers. It provides habitat for thousands of species. It’s nice to look at, as well.
The rich soils stripped by agribusiness cropping were built up over thousands of years by herbivores eating vegetation.
There is no ethical eating of meat. You have to kill a living creature to get your food. I would imagine if people had to return to the days of getting their own meat the vast majority would eat far more plant based foods then killing a living cow, lamb, pig, chicken, turkey etc….
That depends on what you consider “ethical”. I guess you could say that nature is not ethical.
Lawd these comments are doing my head in. Of course its difficult to think objectively once you have identified with a certain ideology, in this case veganism. And despite clear and factual information being presented, if the concept of what a “fact” is can’t be understood then maybe we’ve got bigger problems anyway haha.
Great post, thanks for all you do.
I read over halfway through this until the political “pendulum swings” comment. At that point you were completely discredited with me. Your political bias validated you have none, just like the bias you wasted your time in presenting.
Yes
Thank you Robb for saying the things that need saying!
I forgot about this. Awesome review! It’s kinda sad that there’s so much misinformation out there. You have to question damn-near EVERYTHING you read or hear – even if the source is someone you trust. My mom, dad, girlfriend, etc. are the closest people to me and a lot of their input is just regurgitated from a source THEY trust – not knowing if it’s actually TRUE. Thanks Robb!!! KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!!!
thanks amigo!
Robb, Thanks for your tireless hard work and analysis.
Busy soaking up your Keto Masterclass. Really goddamn works! I feel for the first time, after being low carb for a number of years, I am now in full control and get the results I wants when I want, just like pulling well oiled little levers.
Anyway …
Let them eat Kale!
You got more important work to do than than saving vegans from their pyres of fundamentalism and sentimentality. Never mind all the fun you could be having.
We should be grateful that so many people are willing to sacrifice their life force masticating and digesting cellulose for our scientific benefit.
I say this as my brother is a vegan and I thank him for his nutritional service even as his well being is increasingly hard to witness.
They didn’t stop burning witches for lack of wood or faith, and certainly not from appeals to reason.
Eating vegan is about as beneficial to health as smoking heroin.
Just want to throw that out there.
You nailed it Robb! I have been thriving on an “omnivorous” paleo-type diet for years. Friggen vegans don’t scare me. In fact __ they’re silly… The way I see it: “LIVE AND LET LIVE”. Why is that a problem? If you really “thrive” on a vegan diet — have at it! Go in peace! I’m happy for you. Otherwise, look at HOW man originated and survived. Silly vegans think neatherthal man ate fruit… lol
Hi Robb
Watched magic pill it was awesome. But unfortunately it has Pete Evans in it. I love Pete he has a great message but here in OZ he is despised by the uneducated people who want to bring down anybody who they feel is better then them (tall poppy syndrome). There is a faction out there who us trying to get the doco taken off Netflix ha so god damn stupid.
YES!
Yes
great review….yes
Yes!
Yes!!
I alwaqys was concerned in this subject and stock still am, appreciate it for putting up.
No.
I want to say yes, because the movie I want to see is a well-sourced and scientifically honest exploration of multiple solutions to the complex problem of what to eat and why, and when you asked “would you pledge…”, that’s what you described.
I want to say yes because I 100% agree that the decentralisation of food production and a more ethical meat industry would have many, many upsides and few downsides for consumers.
I want to say yes because it’s so tempting to use hyperbole to fight hyperbole, and it’s so easy (and yes, necessary) to tear apart propaganda pieces like What the Health when the science is so flimsy.
But I have to say no, because as with hyperpalatable foods, we now have hyperentertaining entertainment, and I know the movie I want to see can’t have the viewership I want it to have without becoming a biased, sensationalised, attack-focused propaganda piece itself.
This review raises a ton of very good points about why “What the Health” is not a good source of information about dietary choices. But as you’ve mentioned many times yourself, it falls short of “professional”. Sometimes to the point of being unreadable from an information standpoint. It’s an attack. It’s an attack because (I assume) that’s how you feel, it’s an emotional subject, and it’s very frustrating to see someone else lie or mislead people about something you’re passionate about.
But, in your passion, there are several counterpoints that are left uncited, like your graphs on heart disease, cancer, and mortality rates (if you did cite these and I just couldn’t find them, I apologise). These are the kind of holes that leave rational arguments open to counterattack—and I do mean counterATTACK, not counter argument.
I want more rational discussion to take place, where multiple solutions can be acknowledged, and I don’t believe film, as perhaps the most difficult-to-cite medium*, in today’s hyperentertainment market, can fit that bill.
*Difficult to cite, because hitting pause and looking something up is garbage more interruptive than following a link in a new tab: you have to go to the
Hi, since I speak Spanish I’m better expresing ideas in that language so… Estaba impactada por el documental/película, realmente la ví por casualidad el 31 de Diciembre de 2022. Pensé que era una señal para cambiar mi vida a través de algo tan importante como lo es la alimentación. Hoy estamos a 8 de Enero y llevo 5 días siendo vegana, la verdad es que lo hice por las razones equivocadas. Mi enfoque y mi meta era de salud y ahora me doy cuenta de que no tengo que privarme de comer productos de origen animal para tener una vida saludable. Sinceramente eso me da satisfacción de saber. Estaba dispuesta a hacer un reto de 1 mes en esta dieta solo como excusa para acostumbrarme a ella y seguir así. De verdad me ví a mi misma siendo vegana por años. Comencé a consumir contenido vegano para auto motivarme y empecé a ver testimonios de personas que habían bajado de peso y mejorado su salud a través de esta dieta. De verdad he probado mi fuerza de voluntad ya que demás estoy haciendo ayuno intermitente de más de 15 horas.
Gracias por hacer esta revisión tan exhaustiva sobre esta película, de verdad que me he dedicado a leer reseñas de personas dedicadas al área de salud y me han abierto los ojos y me alegro de ver lo que veo. Gracias de nuevo y espero que puedas hacer más reseñas así sobre otras películas y/o contenidos alarmistas.