Download a transcript of this episode here
Featuring guest: Kiefer.
Robb Wolf is a former research biochemist and 2X New York Times/Wall Street Journal Best-selling author of The Paleo Solution and Wired To Eat. Along with Diana Rodgers, he co-authored the book, Sacred Cow, which explains why well-raised meat is good for us and good for the planet. Robb has transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around the world via his top-ranked iTunes podcast, books, and seminars. He also co-founded the 1st and 4th CrossFit affiliate gyms in the world, The Healthy Rebellion community platform, and is the co-founder of DrinkLMNT Electrolytes.
Search Robbwolf.com
carbnite link is broken, fyi
Do you think grazing on carbs all day could be contributing to obesity? I have read that the Kitavans ate only two main meals a day with a fruit snack at lunch. I am pretty sure that the okinawans traditionally did not come in from working the fields every two hours to have a muffin.
I believe it is generally accepted that after a high carb meal insulin levels go up and fat is stored in the fat cells and not burned as blood glucose is higher. The arguement against the insulin hypothesis I’ve heard is that after a couple hours blood sugar returns to normal, insulin drops and fat is released from fat cells and burned. Fat is not “trapped” in the fat cells.
But what happens if someone eats a high carb muffin or two to three 100 calorie snack packs ( seriously who can eat just one of those!) every couple hours? If you ate small high carb snacks or meals every 2 to 3 hours wouldn’t your blood glucose and insulin remain high all day? If you did this for years is it possible that your body would downregulate the enzymes and metabolic pathways needed to burn fat since you would be burning the constant supply of glucose all day? Could this result in people not being able to burn fat effeciently and have to rely on carbs for fuel like the formally obese women in this study ( From J. Stantons great series on hunger at gnolls.org)
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/274/1/E155
Add in the fact that most people have a nutrient poor diet and have nutritional deficiency and you have the perfect recipe for obesity. It seems to me these people would be constantly hungry as their bodies need nutrients and they burn through their glycogen store quickly have have a reduced ability to burn stored body fat. This would result in too much energy in the cells and lead to insulin resistance.
Everyone seems to concentrate on the amount of carbs eaten by the Kitavans and Okinawans, but maybe the frequency is just as important.
Maybe the problem isn’t the amount of carbs we are eating, its the quality and constant supply of carbs throughout the day.
Glen,
I would read Kiefer’s material. He mentions a lot of things you’re talking about. His research is about all about the types of carbs you eat, their insulin rise, drop, duration of insulin secretion, and how that affects fat utilization depending on when eaten during the day, how many times eaten per day, and even how many days per week you take part in this.
Interesting podcast robb. Thanks. You gotta get Mat Lalonde on here again to talk carbs, protein powder, nutient density etc. I’d love to hear his thoughts on carbs and longevity.
Thanks again!
A really interesting discussion and great to have it follow on so quickly from the Perlmutter interview.
Grain Brain will probably be a very important piece of work and hugely helpful to a lot of people. I think Dr Perlmutter does overreach when he presents low carb as THE best option for everyone, including high intensity athletes. It’s great to keep context in the discussion. Kiefer, Robb and Peter Attia do that very well.
John Kiefer lives to tell the tale. I was really excited about his work until he decided to drop off the edge of the earth.
Something tells me the CHO Chautauqua is not over yet.
hmm, replicating patterns in different phenomenon…Pirsig…Quality subject/object… Paleo… fat/carbs?
“He noted that although normally you associate Paleo w fats, Paleo sometimes occurs without any fat at all. That is what led Phaedrus at first to think that maybe Paleo is all carbs, but empty carbs wasn’t what he meant by Paleo either. Paleo decreases carbs. Paleo takes you out of your kitchen, makes you aware of the world around you. Paleo is opposed to empty carbs. Paleo is the event at which awareness of both fats and carbs is made possible!”
Genius!
That was my favorite podcast so far. I’ve been eating higher glycemic carbs (sweet potatoes and white rice) after workouts the last two months and have seen better performance and body comp. No study can replicate your individual life. There are just too many variables.
Thanks for keeping it balanced Rob! I was so confused after the last podcast.
This was a new idea to me and seems super interesting http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402009/
“A novel hypothesis of obesity is suggested by consideration of diet-related inflammation and evolutionary medicine.”
“The present hypothesis suggests that in parallel with the bacterial effects of sugars on dental and periodontal health, acellular flours, sugars, and processed foods produce an inflammatory microbiota via the upper gastrointestinal tract, with fat able to effect a “double hit” by increasing systemic absorption of lipopolysaccharide. This model is consistent with a broad spectrum of reported dietary phenomena. A diet of grain-free whole foods with carbohydrate from cellular tubers, leaves, and fruits may produce a gastrointestinal microbiota consistent with our evolutionary condition, potentially explaining the exceptional macronutrient-independent metabolic health of non-Westernized populations, and the apparent efficacy of the modern “Paleolithic” diet on satiety and metabolism.”
I heard Kiefer talk about a study I hadn’t heard before: the one where confirmed celiacs were given a combination of gluten + starch that decomposed before reaching the gut. The test subjects had no reaction to the gliadin, suggesting that gliadin was a necessary but not sufficient condition to cause problems. Can you or Kiefer provide a citation for that study?
No clue on that.
This podcast aligns with a lot of things I’ve personally experienced.
I did 8 weeks of Carb Nite and I feel like my body handles carbs much better even months after I’ve gone off the diet. I don’t get energy slumps, even if I eat something sugary for breakfast. I feel like I don’t bloat as much either when I do eat junk food. Body seems better equipped to handle it all.
My Cholesterol has gone up as long as I’ve been on a low carb diet and I don’t know whether to worry about it or not. So it’s good to hear that it might be just fine. Didn’t get the scan to see if there’s any actual buildup… because I’m 28 and it seems pointless. Figured I’d just up the carbs and ride it out for a year and see what my bloodwork looks like after that.
I also noticed that as my health has improved over the years, I just don’t have the same reaction to junk food as I have had previously. Especially after doing 8 weeks on cyclic ketogenic (carb nite).
Keep up the politics of food and health. I think it’s the politics of food and health that has gotten us in to the bad shape we are in today. I know some people get mad but F them.
Thanks Gary!!
This is one of the best podcasts on the “interwebs.” Two scientists debating using study citations, eachothers work to prove each thesis, admiting each others work was a compelling argument for for both views. I love how one size fits all was totally discredited. It made the case of timming of carbs and hormone response/influence needs more study.
The Hulk and the Juggernaut v2. Awesome.
You guys are bringing the OODA loop to human health and performance. Thanks for another great show. More Kiefer please. Love your shows Robb, but you have to keep K from going ninja for so long.
There’s something very likeable about Keifer, yet I cannot help but wonder, why in god’s name would he ever entice, recommend push ANYONE, esp. someone like Jim Laird who has had a huge health problem with grains to eat frigging junk carbs (cherry turnovers? dude! yech, patooie!)? WTF? I get his point about becoming stronger and more able to “handle it” but why would anyone want to?! Where’s the benefit? It’s not a benefit to be “able” to handle fake foods and not a friend who insists even when the guy says “no” eight ways to Sunday. BTW, if I eat the way you do, I get sick, over weight in a hurry and all my health gains go out the window immediately. Just sayin’… glad it works for you and I’d never listen to anyone who thinks cherry turnovers are food.