The Paleo Solution – Episode 58 (Tim Ferriss Edition)

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We are honored to be joined by Tim Ferriss today to discuss his new book “The 4-Hour Body“.  Tim provided this “The Slow-Carb Cookbook” for your enjoyment.

Download a transcript of Episode 58

Show Topics:

  1. Reason behind writing book
  2. Most counter-intuitive or impressive protocol
  3. Paleo eating
  4. Process for hacking problems
  5. Currents goals
  6. Other interests
  7. Performance, health, & longevity
  8. Fasting
  9. Rehab concepts
  10. Functional Movement Screen
  11. Corrective exercise
  12. NFL Combine
  13. Glute activation

List of Questions – The Paleo Solution – Episode 58

Download Episode Here.

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  1. Mark R.
    December 14, 2010 at 7:23 am

    Show Topics:

    Reason behind writing book 3.59
    Most counter-intuitive or impressive protocol 7.15
    Paleo eating 13.16
    Process for hacking problems 16.55
    Currents goals 21.53
    Other interests 24.35
    Performance, health, & longevity 26.13
    Fasting 29.01
    Rehab concepts 32.08
    Functional Movement Screen 35.03
    Corrective exercise 35.55
    NFL Combine 37.52
    Glute activation 41.04

  2. Steven Wright
    December 14, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Hey Guys Awesome Podcast thanks! The audio cuts in an out a bit, especially when you asked time question 4. Can you post the questions that Tim said he asks experts to hack problems?

    Thanks for all you do!
    Steve

  3. David Hagerty
    December 14, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Hey Robb and Andy,
    These books by Tim sound great. I just recently read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. The ideas seem to be rather in line with some of the inputs you guys discuss. Tim’s books are on my to read list. Thanks for incorporating him into the show.

    Thanks for the resource.

  4. David
    December 14, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Interesting Podcast. I love when you have guests, it gives a different perspective…..not that I get sick of you guys talking…lol.

    I was hoping, however, that you were going to challenge him a bit more on some of his philosophies, like the all day binge or legumes issues.

    • Robb Wolf
      December 14, 2010 at 3:47 pm

      Not sure what I’d Challenge him on. He acknowledged we were the experts on the autoimmune front, the 1day bing can work for some, completely frack others.

      • J
        December 14, 2010 at 7:45 pm

        Along that line, I heard an interview where Ferriss spoke to the idea that on his binge days he first downs two glasses of grapefruit juice to start out the day (before his chocolate croissant, etc)

        He cited the fact that in terms of weight-gain it’s not what you put into your body, it’s what makes it into your bloodstream. He said that the grapefruit juice inhibits the body from absorbing the something-or-other from the ‘binge food’ for up to 24 hours giving him the ability to eat all he wishes without putting on fat. (this of course does not speak to foods effects with regards to inflammation… at least I don’t think…)

        I’m sure he goes into much more detail somewhere in the book – my copy of which is currently in the mail (that fractured bit is all I remember off the top of my head).

        Robb, can you speak to validity of any of that?

        J

      • David
        December 15, 2010 at 12:30 pm

        I was thinking more in the lines of if binging is healthy, not that it actually works for fat loss or not. From what we have learned from you over the course of your podcasts and books, you stance seems to be totally against the binge regardless of if it works or not because of the health implications.

        I can’t imagine eat crap foods for an entire day can provide any health benefits.

        • Robb Wolf
          December 15, 2010 at 3:42 pm

          No, I can’t either…so I’m stumped how that would be an interesting debate? I’d wager Tim would agree, but he does this based on a minimum investment/maximum return scenario. Yes, it may not be healthy, but in the grand scheme, acceptable losses.

          I don’t know…if folks want something like that we can certainly do it but I’m just not seeing the value.

          • Ben Wheeler
            December 15, 2010 at 8:16 pm

            I think if the bender does anything besides keeping some folks sane, it likely has to do with the leptin bump up and leptins effects on other hormones/metabolism. Obviously I think a better approach would be simply smashing lots of starchy tubers, maybe some coconut water etc. You could even go as far as baking some gluten-free goodies if you have a bit of a sweet tooth. Personally I’d just stay the fuck away from gluten as it honestly leaves me destroyed for at least 2 days, and I see no sense in trying to improve gut health 6 days of the week and then just blowing it all to shit in one day.

          • Graeme
            December 15, 2010 at 9:34 pm

            It would be interesting to have a brief elaboration on your perspective on what happens in the body as a result of a cheat day like tim recommends. (obviously it depends on the person, and what is eaten).

            I think tim’s book is going to be huge. His recommended diet is reasonably close to paleo, except for binge and soaked legumes. half the recipes in that cookbook come from marks daily apple This may be the most mainstream exposure a paleo type diet will get in the next little bit (its #4 on amazon).

            I can see the cheat day appealing to many people, and in some cases helping compliance for those who would otherwise cheat during the week.

            In other words, many non paleo people are going to want to try this. Heck, I plan to experiment with it. I feel great on paleo….but on the other hand, i know too that on occasion I’ve slipped off the wagon. A controlled cheat day could limit that for me personally (plus I also love chocolate croissants).

            I think it would be useful for people to have your perspective on the health impacts (how adverse, for those types who don’t get “completely fracked”?). I think it would totally be in the spirit of what tim is trying to do. I’m newer here than some, so I couldn’t speak confidently about the effects myself, apart
            from subjective experience.

            p.s. Written from a phone, please excuse the irregular formatting. Also, loved the book, I’ll be ordering my own copy soon.

          • Robb Wolf
            December 16, 2010 at 9:45 am

            my main deal is remain gluten free. From there, folks have a lot of latitude.

  5. Dex
    December 14, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Great podcast.

    Tim’s comments regarding joint health are spot on.

  6. enri
    December 15, 2010 at 3:11 am

    A transcription for non-english speakers would be great! thanks!

  7. Nathan M
    December 15, 2010 at 6:26 am

    Robb or Andy,

    What was the DL protocol he talked about using to increase his lifts?

    Thanks,
    Nathan Magniez

  8. Josh
    December 15, 2010 at 7:28 am

    Great Podcast. I already had the book on order from amazon. Can’t wait to read it. Tim always has something interesting to say. Love that you are mixing things up a little by having guests on the show

  9. Frank
    December 15, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Robb-

    Thanks for having Tim on – I love his experimental nature.

    I read the 4 Hour Body last night – some of the stuff is super interesting, but might be downright counterintuitive to what we’ve been learning from you.

    I’d be interested in what David asked for before me – have him back on, but have some fun debate regarding what he proposes. He might agree to have different goals than you, but I (and maybe others) would love to hear the debate.

    Best,

    Frank

  10. Simon Fellows
    December 15, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I’m sorry as this might offend some…

    I have not read the 4 hour body but if one paleo-its vis nutrition and a bit o exercise then sho nuff the 4 hour body..presume per week not year ?!?!?..if fair enough ( fury muff ? We always used to say ‘fury muff?’ after someone would say fair enough..sorry..a bit ! )
    But this whole 4 hour work week is simply gibberish.
    Fair play to the man for coming up with the concept/idea but it’s tripe as a literality and i’d wager anyone with half a brain knows its thus and of course i assume its all about how ones defines work, anyways !
    I know someone who knows Mr Ferris quite well and i know he’s earning some serious coin simply from his amazon link/referrals/however it works but i just can’t help but feeling there’s a strong element of hucksterism about the 4 hr workweek and like any huckster he milks it for every penny he can.

    Anyways i thought i’d toss in (ahem ) that small penneth.

    Bon Noel to Girly Robb too.

    • Robb Wolf
      December 15, 2010 at 3:39 pm

      Fellows-
      I’d say Tim rides the edge of shameless self promotion…but he makes that more palatable with production of a fair amount of really good information.

      Now a huckster might claim a 700lb dead lift without practicing max singles…

  11. Susan
    December 15, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Robb,

    R & A – again great podcast. Thanks for making a difference.

    Robb – I attended your seminar at Agoge Crossfit and was wondering how much melatonin one should take for deeper more quality sleep. I’ve always been a light sleeper, waking up multiple times in the night. I’m working on a complete lights out room as well.

    THANKS!!

    • Robb Wolf
      December 15, 2010 at 3:36 pm

      Susan!
      I;ve seen therapeutic dosing ranging from .25mg all the way up to 20-30mg!! Start low, tinker, see how your sleep quality is vs grogginess the following day.

      • Susan
        December 15, 2010 at 8:58 pm

        Thanks. I’ll give it a shot. Really trying to figure the sleep out!! Probably doesn’t help that I don’t get much sunlight during the day but I’ve been combating that with Vitamin D. THANK YOU ROBB! Let’s hope for the best!

  12. Nate
    December 15, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Whether one agrees with Tim or not I think it is important to always keep your mind at least a little open to other ideas. I’m a big follower of everything paleo but without having some understanding of other methods of diet/fitness I find it hard to defend my own stance. Plus you never know if you might pick something up that works for you. I have not read the book but plan on it with the hopes that it will only increase my knowledge, either by picking up something new or making my belief in paleo that much stronger. Just a thought, thanks.

  13. Ricky H.
    December 15, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Robb,

    I have been experiencing numbness in both feet for the past two months. Went to doctor today and he eliminated back problems and circulation to feet and some other stuff being the problem. He did a blood test to check blood sugar (fasted for six hours) and I will get the results tomorrow. I am eating about 75% paleo but the 25% that is not paleo is coca-cola, donuts, etc. I know you’re thinking I’m not eating paleo then and you are right. I am 40 years old, physically very active and “skinny fat”. Both parents are diabetic. I do not want to take meds for type 2 the rest of my life but I believe my doctor would be just fine with that. Can you tell me what direction I should consider going IF I find out I’m type 2 tomorrow? Should I refuse any meds, start with low dose of something or what? I know that beginning this minute I have to get the diet dialed in 100% of the time. Would like to know what you would do in my situation assuming it’s type 2?

    Thanks!

    • Adam Ball
      December 16, 2010 at 12:28 pm

      Hey Ricky,

      Not sure how your doctor “elminated” back problems as a source, but assuming you have no problem with pain in your legs or bowel/bladder use You’re pretty safe to tinker with what makes you feel better.

      Any positions that make it worse?

      What you need to do (very broadly):
      1. Unless your doctor is a chiropractor, I would go see a chiropractor, too. Think of chiropractors as orthopedic surgeons who want to fix you without removing some part of your body.
      2. Dial in 100% paleo/primal diet. Going low carb would be a great choice too. If you’re seriously worried about the diabetes scare, then you need to get serious about eating well. I know there are addictive qualities to donuts and coke, but have some coffee and bacon instead.
      3. Start (or continue?) an intelligent exercise program. Lift heavy things, sprint occasionally and most importantly, find something you enjoy doing that is active.
      4. Reduce any stress levels you have with better sleep, meditation, talking with someone, etc.

      I hope you’re doing well! Keep everyone updated.
      Adam

      • Ricky H.
        December 16, 2010 at 8:04 pm

        Adam,

        Thanks so much for your reply. The results came back that I am NOT diabetic. My blood sugar was a 5.6? I am very relieved as both parents and both grandfathers were type 2.

        The numbness seems to come more often when I am sitting. Doctor did a back x-ray which he said looks good and a circulation test which was good too. That’s when he checked the blood sugar. I do have a chiropractor but he has been on a vacation for a couple weeks, I expect to get to see him Monday.

        I had someone mention today that sometimes frostbite could cause this even several months after exposure. I don’t know if that is true but I did have possible frostbite on a camping trip a couple months back?

        I guess I just have to keep trying to figure it out, chiro is next and doctor mentioned seeing a nerve specialist.

        Ricky

    • julianne
      December 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm

      I’m not Robb, but I have worked with a few type 2 diabetic people. Paleo achieves excellent results. With clients with a new diagnosis, I have them ask their Doctor if they can do a food trial say 6 weeks to see what can be accomplished before starting meds. Like you say 75% paleo is not paleo! You’ll be amazed at the difference 100% makes. A few supplements too would be useful, esepcially vit D (get your doctor to test and then get you level to around 50). Take fish oil. magnesium, Maybe a multi for a while and maybe some Alpha lipoic acid.

  14. Ashley
    December 15, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Hi Robb,

    Nice podcast. I’m on page 3 of Tim’s book, though, and already see a problem – he states that a body fat percentage change from 11.9% to 10.2% is a 14% change. Really, it’s about 2%, and that’s how he refers to it subsequently, but these kinds of errors always raise my flag… maybe I missed something, here?

    In other news, I’m happy to report that I’ll be receiving a “consultation with Robb” as a mass holiday present from my family members, who are sick of hearing me go on and on about finding new research papers in epidemiology and biology journals (“Cell” has been a favorite recently). Hopefully the wait-list isn’t years long :)

    I did enjoy the podcast, but look forward to more of you and Andy answering questions that speak to a broad audience :) If you are willing to talk about Chilblains, that would be cool too. Just diagnosed with that.

    Thanks to whomever wrote the index for your book. MUCH appreciated. Just read Cordain’s new book, it is a nice update.

    Cheers,
    Ashley

    • Ashley
      December 15, 2010 at 11:35 pm

      Nevermind, I get it – 14% of the total fat on his body is different than 2% of his body weight. Just not totally clear the first read.
      Ash

  15. couchism
    December 16, 2010 at 12:05 am

    “Now a huckster might claim a 700lb dead lift without practicing max singles…”

    LMFAO

  16. Mark
    December 16, 2010 at 7:07 am

    I’ve trying to work on my joint health lately. I have an annoying problem, and I’ve had it for the last 4 years: hip bursitis. I can’t seem to get rid of it, and it’s preventing from doing a lot of things.

    Robb, do you have any tips for me on how to deal with it?

  17. Leann
    December 16, 2010 at 7:22 am

    I recently started the Paelo diet. I also just bought The 4-Hour Body and was reading about the slow-carb diet. There is a big conflict on the issue of legumes. Tim strongly advocates for legumes, while Robb says they aren’t to be eaten. I was wondering if Tim and Robb have had this discussion and, if so, what the outcome has been.

    Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to download and listen to the podcast. I apologize if this was covered in it.

    • Robb Wolf
      December 16, 2010 at 9:42 am

      Tim acknowledged we know what we are talking about regarding the autoimmune issue. So…

  18. Chris G
    December 16, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Hello!

    Great podcast. Tim Ferriss writes about some fascinating topics, and it was interesting to hear you all discuss fitness and nutrition.

    My question is somewhat unrelated. I am pretty sure I have Raynaud’s syndrome/phenomenon, meaning that the tips of my fingers and toes get really cold and turn white/blue during the winter. It started last winter (Dec 09). Coincidentally, I started training CrossFit and eating Paleo just before (June 09).

    Any help, suggestions, tips, or advice? I’ve tried cutting out caffeine, which helped a little but not much. I’ve also tried supplementing with iodine and occasionally drinking Natural Calm (magnesium supplement) at night.

    Thanks so much,
    Chris

    • Robb Wolf
      December 16, 2010 at 3:58 pm

      It’s an autoimmune condition and it responds well to the protocol detailed in the book and the FAQ

  19. Todd
    December 17, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Hey Robb, I was wondering if you could comment on this article by a doctor at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.
    http://www.athero.org/commentaries/comm564.pdf

    Basically, she discounts the importance of LDL particle size. The technical explanation is above my head, but she summarizes her position by stating:

    “Small LDL confounded the association of large LDL with carotid intima-media thickness (IMT) because of its strong inverse correlation with large LDL, which may underlie the widespread belief that large LDL confers less cardiovascular risk than small LDL. Contrary to current opinion, both small and large LDL were significantly associated with subclinical atherosclerosis independent of each other, traditional lipids, and established risk factors, with no association between LDL size and atherosclerosis after accounting for the concentrations of the two subclasses.”

    Unfortunately, I can’t find a date associated with this article, so I can’t tell when it might have been published. I’m inclined to believe it is at least several years old as she doesn’t cite anything more recent than 2004.

    I’m mainly wondering if this is something that needs additional research, or has this line of inquiry already been run to ground and refuted?

    Thanks o wise lipid guru!

  20. Joe
    December 18, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    I apologize if I am ‘beating the dead horse’. Podcast doesn’t work for me since I am deaf. I hope in the near future Robb will provide transcription to accompany the podcast.

    I read Tim Ferriss’s 4 Hour Body. My major concern is he advocate legume eating. Was this covered in podcast? I would like to know what Robb said about legume?

    If any reader can help me out transmitted what was said in podcast and I really appreciate it in advance.

    • Robb Wolf
      December 18, 2010 at 6:57 pm

      Joe-
      Transcripts coming soon. We did not cover the legume issue in the podcast per se, but Tim acknowledges the autoimmune potential. As with all this stuff, tinker, see what works.

  21. Dan
    December 19, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Am I the only one who heard about Tim’s book from the podcast and was massively disappointed after reading it?

    I have found enough errors and have truths in the book that I would have to view everything else in the book as suspect.

    “Facts” like and hour on a stairmaster only burning 7 calories more than an hour watching TV… that just isn’t possible.

    But the thing that really killed the book for me was using Dave Palumbo as a muscle mass building example. The guy went from 140lbs to 310lbs. Tim gives us a detailed account of his diet. WOW! GREAT! But oops! Tim forgets to make any mention of the fact that this guy also got busted for trafficking steroids a few years ago. (just google “Dave Palumbo arrested)

    Now regardless of how you feel about the use of steroids, I feel like the whole example in Tim’s book is basically a fraud when he leaves out that part of the story.

    So how many of his other fantastic tales are tainted in such a way?

    If the book at least seemed factual I could forgive the nauseating amount of product promotion within the text. It even contains convenient web links to where we can buy all these gizmos and supplements that we supposedly need to achieve his amazing results. How much did these companies pay for this type of product placement?

    After reading this thing I can’t help but think that Tim is laughing all the way to the bank.

    • Multibomber
      December 21, 2010 at 6:45 pm

      Rob has stated before that the main side effect of taking the steroid Testosterone is “increased quality of life.” Big deal if the dude got busted for doing something thats illegal. I habitually drive 5-10 miles over the speed limit, doesnt mean I’m unable to teach any other person how to drive.

      • Dan
        December 24, 2010 at 10:21 am

        That is a weak analogy. Secretely using human growth hormone (like Palumbo) to bulk, then telling me about your diet so I can bulk like you is a lie.

        If Tim Ferris wants to promote controlled substances that is one thing, but if wants to brag about their results, BUT NOT MENTION THAT DRUGS WERE INVOLVED, that is just fraud.

        Later in the book Tim discusses Ben Johnson the sprinter, he talks all about how his brilliant coach trained him in ways that maximized recovery… again no mention of the controlled substances involved.

        Again, if you want to use a controlled substance to train, that is your business. But then don’t turn around and try and sell me all the other products promoted in this book and tell me that is how you got your results.

        Strange my amazon review very similar to this keeps being deleted. No wonder the book is rated so well there.

  22. Travis
    December 26, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    Has anybody tried to get the bonus material (and succeeded)? I ordered three copies from Amazon and forwarded the receipt to paleo@fourhourbody.com, but only got two of the bonus chapters in an autoreply email. Don’t know what happened to the rest of the bonus material. Did I miss a step?

  23. CazS
    December 28, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Received my book as a present from my hubby – and he dumped the receipt(!!!!) so that I couldn’t spoil my Christmas gift surprise! He was unaware of it’s importance for the bonus material. HELP!

  24. Andrew Hales
    December 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    I love your blog. Nice job. :)
    “Fail Harder” – Mark Zuckerberg

  25. stefan
    December 19, 2012 at 11:36 am

    I’m a big fan of your work Robb, but in my opinion having people like Tim Ferris on here does more harm than good. To a new visitor he could harm your credibility.

    • stefan
      December 19, 2012 at 11:38 am

      Wow didn’t see this is almost 3 years old. My bad.

  26. Fernando Chavez
    January 20, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Hi Robb, me and my wife ar following the paleo diet. But I am not sure about this:

    It is good to drink grape juice home made? Not previousñy package pr processed, 100% home made. What’s your opinion about it? Thank you Robb for this space

    • Amy Kubal
      January 21, 2013 at 5:27 am

      Juice of any type is very high in sugar and it’s best to stick to real food!

  27. Fernando Chavez
    January 21, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Sorry I was talking about the grapefruit juice not grape. Is this one too very high in sugar? Sorry I insist is because I am a very fan of grapefruit juice, but if is better not to drink because the sugar, I will leave it.

    Thank you.

    PS is home made.

  28. Fernando Chavez
    January 21, 2013 at 11:48 am

    And thank you for your quick response, really appreciate!

  29. ryan
    February 26, 2013 at 9:12 am

    this is one of my most favorite podcasts. I’ve listened to it multiple times. Tim ferris and Robb wolf, my 2 favorite people.

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