The Paleolithic Solution – Episode 26

This week we were joined by Dallas and Melissa from Whole9.  It was a blast having them on the show and we hope to have them back in the future.  Here is the blog post from Whole9 regarding the Paleo elevator pitch that we discussed during the last question.

Download a transcript of Episode 26

Show Topics:

  1. Fat Consumption
  2. Cinnamon
  3. Stevia
  4. Bloating
  5. Fish Oil Cost
  6. Frozen Vegetables
  7. Paleo Elevator Pitch

Show Notes: The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_26_The_Who

Download Episode 26

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Categories: Podcasts


Robb Wolf’s 30 Day Paleo Transformation

Have you heard about the Paleo diet and were curious about how to get started? Or maybe you’ve been trying Paleo for a while but have questions or aren’t sure what the right exercise program is for you? Or maybe you just want a 30-day meal plan and shopping list to make things easier? Then Robb Wolf’s 30 Day Paleo Transformation is for you.


  1. Oliver Newton says

    Andy, Robb, Mellisa, and Dallas, you all rock! I love what you are all doing. Great podcast!

  2. JH says

    Yo Robb, I recently had a chiropractor tell me that I have a problem with my gall bladder, producing thick, sludge-like bile, do you know anything about this, what causes thck bile or how to prevent/treat it. I eat mostly meat, fat, veggies and organic grass-fed yoghurt and butter. He recommended some supplements from a company called standard process, are you familiar with them? Most of their ingredients are like “bovine liver extract” “bovine adrenal gland extract” or along those lines. Not sure what to think about that…

  3. says

    Another great show, guys, and I like the “guest appearance” format as well; good stuff from the Whole9 duo. Not to further beat the dead horse that is the Stevia controversy, but I do, on a certain level, have sympathy for this sugar jonzin’ crowd. I’ve tried every way I know to divorce good double bock beer from its parent grains, to no avail. Damn.

    • says

      Yea, when I realized I would not be enjoying Guinness due to my gluten issue I had to really search for meaning in life. I’m still looking.

  4. Anders says

    Not sure if this where you are supposed to post questions but here it is anyways.

    Is there a index of the amount of gluten in food? Much like the glycemic index and how quickly carbs are processed by the body. For example: Bread would be at the high end as it is just loaded with gluten. Could a protein bar be less destructive since there are fewer grains found in the protein bar (I understand that preotein bars are not healthy but sometimes necessary in a pinch). Any info would be helpful.


  5. George says

    I loved the show. And it’s always nice to hear that distinctive Canadian “about”. A quick question about the “micrograms of gluten” issue: I’ve given up gluten primarily because my wife was diagnosed coeliac and we’ve changed the way we feed our kids. Last weekend I was at a wedding reception and feasted on the roasted chicken. From my wife’s reaction I know there was gluten in the food. I haven’t traditionally been sensitive to wheat but I felt like I had been hit by a truck! What’s going on? How do you become *more* sensitive to gluten? I think you touched on this with Catherine’s question but can we get more clarification?

  6. Bryan says

    Oh and one more question… I just realized I left my omega-3 pills in the car for like a week. I live in San Diego and the days get pretty hot this time of year. It says specifically to keep in a cool dry place and out of heat. Can I use these or are they rancid? I hope they’re still good, cause I def have like 160 of them that may need to be trashed.

  7. casey says

    Hey Rob quick (random) question:

    I’ll be traveling abroad this summer to the Himalayas, and unfortunately many of the camps will be offering primarily vegetarian diet (with chicken as the only protein and definitely not at every meal). As a result I have asked my advisors about bringing sources of protein (whey, jerky, ect.) and they said it’s cool. My question is what would you recommend as the best, most dense source of protein that should stay for ~3 weeks. I will be traveling with a medical expedition, but am not sure if a refrigerator will be available. My thoughts were jerky and or whey. For my background, played rugby for 3 years in college, started crossfit then, moved on to CFFB about 8 monthes ago. I eat as much paleo as possible, take 6g fish oil a day, and no gluten/wheat…but I do drink whole milk. I’m 23, 5’10” and 170#. Thanks and sorry for the randomness of the question…just didn’t know if there was some super food i could bring with me. Love your site! I’ll recommend the book to my medical school once it’s published so you can become an honorary professor (since I’ve learned a decent amount of biochem/physio through this site)!

  8. Rod Milking says

    Gentlemen you need to be partaking of what you New Worlders call ‘Hard Cider’..We old Worlders just call it cider ..basically as far as i can tell as relative alcoholism is de rigeur in the OW versus the NW !
    Sans gluten and will really give you the kick…i’m not much of a dwinker but par example in this neck Rock Creek extra dry cider (or Cock Reek in our hoose) will disinhibit the frontal cortex nicely and you won’t look like Kirsties Alley the next day.
    Roberto ..i just saw you came to Seattle again…

    When are you risking life and limb and coming to BC, you old tart ?

  9. NH Mike says

    My apologies to Robb, Andy, Keystone and the Whole 9 for the excessively long question. I will be writing a hand written apology to all 8 podcast listeners and sending Derek a fruit basket for displacing him as longest question ever winner. The answer was imensely helpful and should help me continue to “lighten up” . . . coconut milk here I come. Many thanks and keep it up. Wicked awesome stuff.

  10. julianne says

    RE Bloating / distension
    What about looking at the low FODMAP diet?

    “Low in fermentable oligosccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols, a group of short chain carbohydrates that draw water out of the body into the small intestine increasing water in the colon. They are also rapidly fermented by colon bacteria producing hydrogen, carbon dioxide and methane.”
    In a double blind study with IBS patients – they had good success.

  11. Danny says

    Hi there Mr Wolf

    So it’s my birthday this week and am going for a trip away with 9 of my mates while am looking forward to the trip of drinking and eattin all kinds of crap am also looking forward to see how my body adapts to this junk I’ve been paleo for about 6 weeks now so I feel this is a good base line to text what the dark side is like
    wish me luck
    ps like the whole 9 gang think I’ll check out there site

  12. Eric D says

    Great Podcast! Thanks for answering a prior question too, it was a great help. Plus, the guys at the Jits class have literally called me a caveman from all this paleo stuff so that is interesting as im getting stacked and passed….but onto the question…

    You mention in the first question the largest bump in HGH is an hour into sleep and eating before bed will disrupt that process and supress that boost; question is how long before bedtime do i need to eat to avoid this? Considering Jits is 6- 8 I am unable to shove my sweet potato and protien down until about 8:30 on average and im usually trying to lay down to sleep at 9:30. Anything I can do here or doesnt it matter?

    PS: just read an interesting article from Catalyst Forums on grains overnight removing a large portion of the antinutrients and other junk. Im remembering the only grain I miss: my old Mcanns Steel Cut Oats! Link is here:…And-Your-Grains-Will-Be-Kind-To-You.html

    Any comment? Thanks!

    • says

      Soaking grains does not work a bit for me. I’d just stick with low risk varieties like corn/rice and those only occasionally. Just a personal preference.

  13. Tane says

    Robb (and Andy, of course),

    Great show! Highlight of my Tuesday. (Admittedly an easy win if one lives in Saudi Arabia)

    Two links (from the mainstream media):
    1- For the Paleo Parents:

    2- For Robb’s Seminar Preparation:
    Warning! Readers from the South or Mid-West may find the content upsetting!
    It is your professional duty to ensure the highest-quality presentation possible at seminars after all.
    Life’s all about hormone management, Robb!

  14. Kevin says


    Quick question if you have time. Ive been able to mitigate to a large degree my asmtha through proper paleo diet. Fish oil, D, 100% paleo and little to no fruit really helps in this regard. Unfortunately however I have not been able to knock it on the head completely. It tends to flare up especially when i go back to the family home on a coastel town in Ireland. Local lore suggests that its the increased ozone in the air that does it. Do the remaining symtoms suggest some underlying inflammation still? What do you think of arginine for prevention? I would try IF but i have some cortisol issues that id be concerned of making worse.

    Thanks Dude.

    • says

      It could be. Stuff to try: Magnesium ala-natural calm. Sleep? Chico is a tough area ass well. Tons of agriculture and schmootz in the air.

  15. Michael says

    Actually, as a chiropractor, I do know how the gall bladder works :) its part of the clinical anatomy/physiology training we do. That being said, I wouldn’t be telling anybody that their gall is producing thick sludge…lol.

  16. Jared says

    So i’m floating around 13% bodyfat, Do I need to start worrying about my one cup of coffee with one packet of sweetener and a couple pieces of artificially flavored gum? Whats the amount we are talking about when it comes to taking out artificial sweeteners?? hope thats enough info

  17. Jeff says


    I think in every episode you have mentioned how important sleep is, especially when leaning out is concerned. I have two small children including an infant which makes consistent and high quality sleep next to impossible.

    I am 30 years old, about 185. I am not necessarily trying to get “Brad Pitt Fight Club Ripped”, but like everyone else would like to lose that “last 10 pounds”. I am pretty strict with paleo and my only dairy is from Kefir. I do Krav Maga once a week, CF and sprints 1-2x a week and mainly do bodyweight exercises a la Convict Conditioning and Naked Warrior. Overall my training is pretty low volume, well below failure, but at a higher frequency. My gains as far as working out are going fine, but I want to make sure that what I am doing now won’t lead to burn out in the future. In my 20’s I ran high volume programs with crappy diets and made gains for months before burning out and crashing.

    What type of changes should I make to my diet or training to compensate for the lack of sleep? I typically get around 7-8 hours of “scheduled sleep”, but I am woken up at random times, sometimes every two hours and for different durations.

    It would make sense to me go ketogenic and add frequent IF days as well as making sure that I haven’t eaten for awhile before bed so insulin won’t interfere with whatever meager natural GH I am getting.


    • says

      We can tinker with the carb and calorie intake, but this is my very point, there is no substitute for sleep! Magnesium before bed, feed and water the kids paleo so THEY sleep better, dark rooms etc.

  18. Sarah says

    My 8 year old nephew was diagnosed with Osteochondritis dissecans or orthopedic OCD (knees). He goes back in 4 months for more scans to see how the disease is progressing. He plays baseball, football and wrestles (trauma sports) and is devastated that he may have to “retire” at such a young age. He and his family eat the standard nutrient-poor, high carb and bad fat American diet; pizza, fast food, soda, etc. Recommendations on diet, supplements and activity to thwart or reverse this? Thanks for sharing all of your big-brained goodness with us!

    • says

      It’s an interesting disease. Inflammation, unusual angiogenesis coupled with physical trauma seems to underlie the problem. I’d be shocked if a nutritional change did not benefit the situation. If they play with this please let me know.

  19. Mike says

    Hey Robb,
    I attended one of Rip’s Starting Strength Seminars this past weekend, and he referred to the skeleton they had up there to go over the anatomy stuff as “our Zone dieting friend.”
    Figured you’d enjoy that.

    Great podcast again. Dallas & Melissa rock!

  20. Arlo says

    Listening to the podcast now! One comment about stevia and sweetener insulin response. Someone I know who measures his blood sugar decided a couple of times to do a bit of an experiment by measuring his blood sugar after just being at a meal SURROUNDED by tons of sweet food, without partaking. His blood sugar dropped like he was having some sort of insulin response.

    Of course, n=1, uncontrolled experiment. I wouldn’t be surprised though, given the mind/body connection.

    • says

      yea, this is exactly the point, stevia acts as an insulin memetic. Unlike cinnamon however, it seems to leave some problems. the problem arriases for people who are overweight, trying to lean out and using stevia (or other sweeteners).

  21. Bryan T says

    Great episode! I have a funny comment regarding what to tell people when they ask about your eating habits.

    Back when I was doing my “bodybuilding” routine there was a guy at my gym who did olympic lifting in a corner at the gym and the dude was huge, he was 70’s big in the 2,000’s. One day my buddies mustered up the courage to ask him what he eats and he told them “lots of Dippin’ Dots icecream”. I laughed but my friends took him completely serious and starting eating them after workouts. So now when people ask me I tell them the same thing. After all, I believe that most people who ask the question are just looking for a “magic bullet” and stop listening to you the instant your answer is more than one sentence.

  22. Tim says

    Aloha Robb, Andy, Melissa and Dallas,
    Thanks for taking on my quandary of the “Elevator pitch.” I loved the input and have come up with a new one that I am going to use for now. What’s every one think?

    “I have been trying to learn more about nutrition over the last year or so and have been focused on eating the most nutrient dense, high quality food that I can get my hands on. I have been trying to eat mostly local grass-fed beef, fish, and nutrient dense vegetables. If I can’t do that I still try to choose the best quality protein and vegetables available. I make sure that I get good fats in my meals from healthy sources like coconut, olives, nuts and healthy animals. We have also been trying to keep less nutrient dense calories or foods with higher anti-nutrient contents out of our meals. This is an intentionally anti-inflammatory way to eat and has allowed me to play harder and recover faster from both workouts and injuries. With all that being said, I can still eat just about anywhere and just try to make good choices. Are you interested in hearing any more about it?”

    Whole 9 was a great addition to the pod cast even thought Robb seemed subdued.

    • says

      Just trying to let our guest get a word in! I’ve seen a few interviewers lately who talk more than their interviewees/guests. Not a good scene IMO.

  23. Ads says

    hey robb, i’m interested to know how you handle raw, pastured cow’s milk? From memory, you seem to handle the goats milk better than the cow’s. Am I right in saying this? I value your n= 1.


  24. thania says

    i am not impressed by the guests chattering on general information, boring , too long and just reapeating themselves.

    Can we keep the Robb wolf podcast to Robb wolf, I never get bored and the answers never seem long as they are packed with detailed information , science backed and the biochemistry behind the problems, treating the Q with different angles.

    Sorry I sound a bit rude, but that is my feeling of disappointment.

    However I think is positive to refer to other health webs, but please keep the podcast clean

  25. John Jaeckel says


    So here’s one (maybe) for the podcast, building off our brief dialogue (Robb) recently about melanoma.

    In her book “Primal Body, Primal Mind”, Nora Gedgaudas (say that five times fast, after five espressos) states that sunscreen use is actually causing higher cancer rates because it is inhibiting Vitamin D production through exposure to the sun.

    This is an interesting question for someone like me, in my 40s, with a recurrent family history of melanoma, and having had a few basal cell carcinomas and mildly dysplastic lesions removed over the years.

    i would like to think moderate sun exposure (say, tanning, not burning) would be good for me. Especially if all the other lifestyle factors are in order: diet, exercise, rest, lack of exogenous toxicities (no smoking, drinking, etc).

    Or am I dangerously deluding myself, and I’d be better getting my Vitamin D solely through food and supplementation and slather on the SPF-50 head to toe every day.

    Your thoughts? Thx

  26. Conrad says


    Catching up on the Whole9 podcast right now… question about the good food-bad food. I live in China and haven’t found a good source for fish oil (my brother sent me some in the mail but it’s held up in customs right now). Most of the canned mackerel and sardines around here comes with at least one of the following ingredients: sugar, salt, vague ‘food additive’, soy sauce… do you think it’s worth getting the epa/dha into the system despite the neolithic ingredients?

    Thanks for the advice.


  27. Mr. Walsh says

    I hate to say it.. but I agree with thania. I’d much rather hear Robb go on and on for hours. The guests did not seem to bring much to the table… :\

  28. joey says

    Hey Robb,

    Recently added 1/2 GOMAD to my paleo diet. Question is should i increase my omega-3 intake due to it? My thinking is yes because the large quantity of dairy is probably extremely heavy in omega-6. I currently take 5.2g of epa/dha a day at a BW of around 170. Should i up it due to addition of dairy, if so by how much? (rough estimate)

  29. Jess says

    A note on joey’s question:

    From, factory-farmed whole milk has a ratio of about 1.6:1 omega 6:3, so even drinking GOMAD shouldn’t skew your ratios. Total polyunsaturated fat is about 6% of the total fat.

    This is surprising since factory-farmed meat is like 10:1. Guess cows try and make their babies healthy even if they aren’t?

  30. Ian says

    Hey Robb,
    Got my results back from my second adrenal stress index test. Looks like I have really low cortisol throughout the day (adrenal fatigue, their words, not mine hahaha). It’s no wonder I’ve been having a tough time leaning out all this time….I’ve taken the last two weeks off completely. thinking of coming back on a 3 day wendler 531 split. Do you think that sounds ok, I mean in your humble opinion?

    Also, I’m starting to really believe that these metcons, short or not, are much more trouble than they are worth. I’m sure I am not the only one with this…

    • says

      Sounds good, take it easy, leave some in the tank. RE Met-cons: I think the majority of people could derive the majority of their benefit from a 70-80% effort on these things. Someday this may even be the Party Line!

  31. Ian says

    yeah, IF I ever go back to metcons one day, I’ll never go over 75%. The return on investment just doesn’t seem that great to go higher….

  32. Barbara says

    Robb/ Andy,
    As always this was a good podcast but I have to say I like it when Robb does most of the talking, not the guests who were okay but do not bring as much to the table.
    I have a question for you : I am 54 female, competitive cyclist, taking bio identical hormone repalcement and just found out 2 wks ago I am hypothyroid (now taking T4-synthroid and T3 cytomel) to address that. I have been strict paleo, grass fed meat for 7 months. Only cheats are ice cream, 1x a wk or 85% dark choc. In March i started to develop some serious pain in my R hand thumb joint which made it very painful on the bike shifting and braking. I saw what you said re wobenzym and started taking that along with sam-e and got some relief but not back to normal. I also went off nightshades for 2 wks with little to no change. A hand MD said i had carpal tunnel and would need surgery, I have read what you’ve said about that,as it relates to inflamation and insulin. Any ideas for me?

    Thanks…I live for Tues’s podcast now!


    • says

      Normally I’d hang a carpal tunnel on inflammation but if you are biking the protruded neck position and loading on the arms could certainly be causing the problem. The important thing is to distinguish between TOS (thoracic outlet syndrome) vs legit CT. Also, how’s your sleep? That’s a significant piece to the puzzle.

  33. Barbara says

    Robb, I will check into what you sent me. My sleep is good, I was thinking that I had inflamation related to food or allergic reaction to something. I had IBS in the past pre-paleo and now am good with that since no grains…legumes..little milk products and recently stopped nuts too just incase.

    Any other ideas?


  34. Heather says

    I have a response to the question today about bloating. I have been eating paleo for 3 or 4 months now, and have always had a problem with extreme bloating. It was greatly improved by cutting out grains and sugars, but then from time to time comes back with a vengeance, just like the woman described in her question. It did not seem to be tied to eating anything in particular… would sometimes last several days or a week, and was sometimes accompanied with abdominal pain or churning. I also have a “fit” stomach usually but look 5 mo. pregnant when the bloating occurs. I kept a food journal for a month and wrote not only what i ate but how i felt before and after, and reading back through it I realized something simple and seemingly obvious. Just about every time the bloating started, I wasn’t actually that hungry when I started eating in the first place. I had been so wrapped up in WHAT i was eating i forgot to pay attention to WHEN and HOW i was eating. Doing a short fast and then being very careful to not eat until I am sure I am hungry seems to work so far in eliminating the bloating. Don’t know why this might happen, but that’s what i’ve found for me.

  35. Mike says

    Just sent a post about reconciling Bernstein strict diabetes diet with Paleo. Please use my first name only in the posting, if posted. Thanks.

  36. says

    Regarding bloating: the girl mentioned she eliminated salt from her diet. One of the things that happen when there isn’t enough sodium in the diet is more aldosterone is synthesized. Aldosterone causes less sodium to be lost in the urine and sweat, but it achieves that at the expense of the increased loss of potassium, magnesium, and probably calcium.

    The loss of potassium leads to vasoconstriction, which contributes to heart and kidney failure and high blood pressure. The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss. Remember, salt helps to retain extracellular magnesium!

    Low sodium diet increases adrenalin production, and eating enough sodium lowers adreanalin and improves sleep. The lowered adreanlin is also likely to improve intestinal motility

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