I’m a skinny fuck. I’ve wished I was not for sometime and the main reason for this (beyond performance improvements) would be that I am no longer mistaken as a “runner”. Yeesh. I competed in PL’ing in both the 181lb and 198lb classes in my youth but it required gargantuan amounts of food to pull that off. As soon as I was not force feeding myself I whittled back to ~160 lbs. At that time however I had NO clue about insulin management, nutrient partitioning, metabolic conditioning…I was just a whipper-snapper! So I resolved to a mass gain program for the dual purposes of improved performance and not looking like a “runner”. Here is how I tackled the training and food:
Training
I’ve talked at length with several folks including Rutman, OPT, Rip, Ido and Greg Everett on this topic and a consensus emerged:
Squat, Press and Pull, heavy and progressively. Shocker, right? I modeled Rip’s beginner program and added a few tweaks of my own. Here’s how things shook out:
Day 1-
Back Squat 5×5
Push Press 5×5
Weighted Pull-up 5×5
Day 2- “Speed Day”
10×2 power clean
Permutations of this circuit:
45″ box jump, 4 dynamic/explosive pull-ups, 4 dynamic push-ups, rounds in 10 min.
This was a very power biased WO that was metabolically challenging but not a lactate melt-down. The box jump precluded getting completely knackered lest I kill myself. I played with a lot of variations on this theme but this day was consistently made up of a tall box jump, speed press, speed pull.
Day-3
I played with a variety of CF WOD’s that ranged in the 4-8 min range. Heavy Fran, Heavy Diane, Helen, Grace etc. I might also sub this day for sprints, anywhere from 50m to 400m sprints, full recovery (4-5 min) and I stopped when I started feeling knackered.
Occasionally a sprint day popped up as a 4th training day. I only did this if I was feeling “really good” and it was always with the idea in mind that I needed to progress the loading on my 5×5 day and thus needed to be recovered.
Loading and other Junk
I started the Back squats at an embarrassingly hard 225lbs. Push Press at 135 and weighted pull up at 12 kg. I also tracked power clean loading which started at 185 lbs. My first few weeks I took a 1 min rest between sets of these exercises and wanted to fudging die. I talked to Rip and he caringly stated: “Robby you are fucking strength training, not doing a met-con…take 5 min between sets…”
I altered my rest peiod and the loading just took off. By the end of 3 months I was at back squat 315lbs 5×5, push press 190 lbs 5×5, pull up 5×5 72 kg (plus 18lbs of increased body weight…I’ll get to that later) and the power clean went up from 10×2 at 185 to anywhere from 215 to 245. I really went by feel on this and focussed on speed. If I felt strong I loaded it up, if not I went lighter. It’s interesting to note that my speed was far more impacted by travel, food and sleep than base strength progress. Silly neurological factors.
Food
I ate a lot. Really. I calced a few days and I ran between 4,200 and 5,000 cals/day of predominately paleo food. The main exception was a quart of goats milk post WO. I tolerated this pretty well and I really noticed a boost in my recovery. I took Now Foods Super Enzymes with each meal (mixed enzymes, ox bile and HCl), fish oil and I shot for 4-5 meals per day, occasionally making 6. I did not force feed at night like I’ve done in the past, but I WAS packed full of food and did not feel particularly well or healthy during this process.
Results
I went from a very scrawny 163 to a much stronger, although chubby 180. My strength improved a bunch but I really do not consider 5×5 efforts “strength” work. Too much fatigue, too little neuro activation and specificity. That considered, I think I have a shot a really increasing my strength levels with some focused work in this area. That in mind, I started the Catalyst Athletics WOD 2 weeks ago and am hammering the Olifts and and few specific gymnastics elements. I’ve curtailed the force feeding, still shooting for 4-5 meals per day but the heavy Olifting has actually brought up my BW to a solid 183 and my strength is taking off. Not bad for a 36n year old nutrition geek!
I think I mentioned in the comments that I went to a Poliquin biosignature seminar recently. I’m working on a write-up for that but for now I’ll just mention that I became aware of some significantly impaired insulin sensitivity on my part. I’m hoping the biosignature approach rectifies this situation…if it does I SHOULD be able to put on muscle mass much more easily. I’d like to run at 185-190 and ~8% BF. This seems to be where the ass-kickers live, so I’d like to give it a shot. I will update how that protocol is affecting my progress (or said another way, does that stuff work). I will also write a piece on my thoughts regarding Poliquin’s stance on CrosSfit. Sure to be popular…
Great post Robb, exciting to hear someone in the CrossFit community talking about wanting to gain some weight, I feel you don’t get that very often. I’m in a similar boat, 6’2, 190# and would really like to get up to around 210-215 range. I already do heavy pushes, pulls and squats, so it’s nice to know it worked out for you. I don’t however rest too long between sets which I will start doing. Additionally its awesome to hear you did it while staying Paleo. I’ve just started on Paleo because I noticed I was having significant stomach issues after dairy and beans.
I have no experience with O-lifts, but starting next week i’m taking a month long crossfit foundations class so hopefully I’ll learn the movements so I can ramp up those. I look forward to hearing more about your progress.
Hey Robb,
Nice work. I would really love to do something like this. Unfortunately I would probably need to take a break from my favorite gym, and find some extra funds for the food. Either way, awesome experiment.
Also, in effort to increase my entrepreneurialistic (sp?) tendencies I have volunteered my services to SFCF as the local nutrition guru. I have already helped a couple of people and am hoping that I can get maybe another ten or so to work with so that I can get some recommendations to start on my own part time. Thanks for everything Robb.
Nick
Hey Robb,
I’m really psyched about the mass gain post. The cold, winter (read: warm loose clothes that don’t show extra chub) months are upon us here in the North East (Long Island) so vanity won’t show its ugly face around for a little while. However, my question is did you/do you recommend IF’ing during this mass gain, or should I skip it and stuff myself with Paleo foods?
Also, I wasn’t going to attempt to measure blocks for meals, so I figure I’d go with the old bodybuilding 1-2g of protein per lb of lean mass. Advise for or against this?
No IF, just eat. 2g/Lb BW. It’s tough, but it works!
Wow so many questions running through my head…
1) When eating those 4-6 meals a day, did you work in any IF with your experience, or did you put it on hold for this experiment? I find that IF is great at maintaining my current weight but very difficult to gain weight on.
2) So with this program was it mostly 3/1 schedule? Looks like ME/Speed day/CF barbell WOD
3) Of the 17 lbs that you gained, how much was fat? How much harder is it going to be to maintain this bodyweight? Can you go back to eating what you used to eat?
4) Do you see yourself following the CA WoD for a while now? Are you moving towards Olifting now?
Thanks again.
1-No IF not enough time. Occasionally an off day I’d compress the feeding window, but if the priority is weight gain, you just need to eat!
2-yep
3-not sure on the fat gain, but much stronger. Thus far I’ve maintained easily and still added 3 lbs.
4-Yep, really want to ge tthe OL’s good.
Robb,
Great post. I love the detailed personal information, it’s really enlightening.
Bunch of questions.
1) You said you went to 5 minute rests between sets on Day 1. Does that mean it was a 15*5=75 minute workout (or longer really) ? How do you avoid getting bored, with all that sitting and waiting?
2) The 3 workout days — you did generally did no other exercising on other days? And the days were non-consecutive, during the week?
3) One thing I’ve been wondering about lately is insulin management with regards to adding muscle. If I understand it correctly, you need some insulin to carry amino acids and glycogen into your muscle tissue for them to repair and grow. So being on a diet that really minimizes insulin (like totally no carb) would make it harder to build up your muscles. But I also figure it’s more complicated than that. Is this one of the right things to be focusing on if your goal is to add muscle?
4) You said you ate mostly paleo in this time. Can you share with us where the bulk of your calories came from? Any good examples for others to try?
1-yep long WO…it’s a totally different gig from a quick warm-up, banging otu a Helen and being done. Boredom? I lived in fear of the next set, I was not bored!
2-Little exercise, occasionally sprints. Always focused on recovery.
3-Read Natural Hormonal Enhancement.
4-working on a menu.
Hey you’re back, good stuff! Poliquin’s views are those of a man who fears new things. There’s no way he hasn’t heard of CF, but he dismisses it because it’s stealing his clients!
Well…I think the two camps could benefit a bunch from mutual understanding…but this stance is likely to get me voted off many an island!
More questions:
5) Did you increment your weight every week on the strength day, starting-strength style?
6) What do you think of the set/rep scheme Art de Vany recommends? Increase weight and decrease reps until you pretty much max out, for each exercise.
7) What’s your weighted pull-up standard? Chin-over, adams-appple-over, or chest-touch? Kip or no kip?
8) What do you think was most worthwhile to do, and least worthwhile?
9) On the 5×5 days, did those include your warm-up sets, or did you additionally do warm-ups before you began the 5x5s?
I know, lots of questions, hopefully they’re mostly easy to answer 🙂
You mention starting at an embarrassingly hard 225#. I’m at 135#, I’m also 36yo. Don’t be embarrassed! If you’re embarrassed, then I’m ashamed, and I don’t want to be ashamed. I am who I am.
5-Yep, that was the key…get more weight on the bar.
6-Good stuff…more HIT than what I was up to but effective for general fitness.
7- Supinated, chest touch on the wiehgted variety, WOD days usually saw kipped pronated grip, typically agian tot he clavicle.
8-It’s all good but the loading was key on the 5×5 day.
9-No, this is weight across…do not count warm-ups.
It’s all relative but there was a time when I could do a set of 8 with 405 lbs ass to grass…long way away from that!
Someone much bigger than me said it once….to gain mass embrace the deadly sin…of gluttony. That and enjoy feeling bloated alot. Really interested to hear about the Poliquin stuff, he gets people results…even if he is a little out there at times.
Also are you working in any hypertrophy work? Like finishing up with 2x12s for some secondary exercises…more a glycogen depletion to prep for reloading pwo?
MOD-
Not at all. I mentioned this elsewhere, I do nto respond particularly well to the higher rep/volume schemes other than perhaps leaning out. Load sems to be my ticket to getting bigger.
good to hear that a 160lbs person can gain weight!
I’m 160lbs 5’11” and I never gain weight, seemingly regardless of what I eat and what exercise I do
Eat more, lift heavier…if you want it to work!
Robb, can you give us more detail on the diet? Those are a lot of calories for paleo, and I would like to see how you did it. Also, how long did this take you to do, and how long would you recommend someone “gain” like this?
Chris-
I think I mentioned the timeline in the article…will work on the menu.
Robb,
This is the perfect post i was waiting to see from you. I am an avid crossfiter, but recently considered taking up some olympic lifting to increase strength(not so good in that department). I have been doing the WOD’s off of Mikes gym, but I do not want to completely turn away from crossfit. If my caloric intake is high enough is it alright to throw a few crossfit.com WODs in 2-3 times a week. I am 6’1 181, hoping to get to 190 with some solid mass. I’m currently taking anywhere from 3500-4000 calories a day. So of your advice would be greatly appreciated, I really don’t know who else to turn to for help.
Sam-
I’ve been doing the Catalyst WOD and I am KNACKERED. I frequently modify the met-con element but always keep it short. If you are following the Mike gym or CA-WOD and attacking it with intensity “2-3 CF WODs” will KILL YOU. That said, I’m a recovery pencil-neck…I can dig a way deeper hole than I can recover from…focus on what you need to bring up, don;t try to do everything at once.
did you rest every other day with this program?
Yes, pretty much 1-on, 1-off. Occasionally 2 off to ensure I was ready to go hard.
Robb, thanks for all the great information and the addition of the new FAQ’s. I have for some been perplexed about nutrition (since my introduction of crossfit) and trying what will work for me best. I have read into the zone, paleo for athletes, and the paleo diet. I have tried both avenue’s of thinking, but felt that I have not acheived any type of goal. It might be doing this for some vanity reasons, but I think asethtics are reasuring to some point that the systems is working. I am 6’4 225 and workout 3-5 times a week according to the crossfit system. Now everything that I have found says that I am boarderline obease, but I feel that a bit drastic. I do enjoy that paleo diet, and feel much better cutting out gluten and starches altogether. I know you cannot give a fair assesment, but do you think zoning my paleo died out to 16 blocks would be to drastic? I am continuing the hard workouts, and want to see some of the body compostion changing as well as relative strength. Thanks, Kristian.
16 blocks is WAY too few…use the ubiquitous resources out of the FAQ to track down a more appropriate number.
Also why not just do the PM mass gain template that you and Greg designed?
Ari-
I think the simple, progressive overload is more important than the volume approach, at least for me. This may be reflective of the fact I tend to be pretty fast twitch dominant and just need to hammer the loading.
Robb,
Thanks for posting this. I have switched to a primal blueprint style of eating recently and have lost weight. It has been mostly fat and I have leaned out pretty well but am skinnier than I want to be. I am 6′ 177. I look like a runner or swimmer also even though I CrossFit 3-4 times a week. I have never been huge but prefer to be around 185-190 and lean. I wasn’t sure that it was possible to eat enough and gain weight through paleo because any time I have gained weight in the past it required a lot of complex carbs. Can you put a day or so of your menu so I can get an idea of how much I need to eat? Thanks.
Kevin-
I’ll try to do a representative menu but I literally just ate as much as I could at the various feedings. Bottom line is if you are ever hungry, if you ever WANT food and are not feeling bloated and full of food…you are not eating enough. Fun, no?
Nice write up Rob. Thanks for posting this. I was wondering what you were doing, as Scott mentioned when he saw you at the Biosig event you were pounding goats milk and looking chubbier.
I’ve been on a mass gain program myself. Just doing Rip’s Novice Starting Strength Routine and eating a ton of food. Despite the fact that i have “worked out” for at least a few years now i have never been on a program of regular heavy squatting, pressing, pulling, and deadlifting. I should have done this years ago. My strength is improving and i am gaining some weight. I should have done this years ago. I can see how the increased strength will help my grappling and met con, when i get back doing it. At my previous weight of 5’10” 160lbs i just did not have a big enough engine.
I have not been doing as good as you with the eating. I’ve been doing what i remember Greg Everett saying somewhere as the “garbage disposal” method. I’ve been trying to stick to healthy foods, but there have been plenty of times when i have needed calories and downed a half pound cheese burger basket. Probably not the most healthy way to go, but i wont be on it forever.
Anton
Well…sometimes you just need to eat!
Robb,
Great post, this is exactly the type of information I have been looking for. I am in the same boat you were in, scrawny 165lbs, trying to get up to 180 but do it without increasing my body fat % which is under 10%.
Question I have – were you on a Paleo zone diet, and if so how many blocks were you eating? I am trying to stick as much as possible to Paleo foods, and am on a 19 block regiments, but have increased my fat by 5x is this a good method to follow?
Roop-
No Zone, just eating like my life depended on it. If you re-read the section I was in borderline agony at times. Paleo foods with the exception of Goats milk PWO. Fat gain is inevitable but keeping carbs PWO helped. I’m working with the Poliquin insulin management protocol now and will see how that affects things.
Robb – I second the request for a daily/weekly view of what your food intake looked like.
It has been damn near impossible for me to keep on top of my food intake and maintain good variety as much as I want to and getting some insight would be very helpful.
Ok…I’ll try to put something together.
Hypertrophy is hard to achieve on the typical Paleo Diet, which works great for fat loss and improving insulin sensitivity. Also, because you end up feeling full very quickly (I have obese clients who are eating ~1500 Kcal of pure Paleo and feel full after every meal, since they’re eating more Protein, more water and fiber rich foods, such as veggies and less carbs, which are great strategies to control appetite), it is hard to eat enough to gain weight.
So, my clients who want to put on more muscle mass, eat 6 times a day (low fat protein + almonds/olive oil/avocado + veggies or low glycemic fruit, such as berries) plus a pre-workout drink (Whey isolate + BCAA + Creatine) + a recovery drink (Whey isolate + BCAA + Glutamine + Creatine + Banana + a pinch of sea salt) and in the 3 hours post workout, when insulin sensitivity is high, they eat a lot of Paleo carbs (mango, papaya, sweet potatoe, yam, etc.).
This seems to work for most of them.
Sometimes, I would also add some insulin sensitizing nutrients, like chromium and lipoic acid.
I like it…really good stuff. Especially the insulin sens supps.
Nice.
I’m almost through my first month of something I’ve been tinkering w/:
D1/4 – BS, PC, Weighted Dips, + 1 assistance move
D2/5 – DL, Press, Weighted Pullups, +1 assistance move
D3 – Rings, D-Rom, DL/GM/OHS broomstick work (Mayyyyybe some sort of Met-Con style WOD)
Lifts are 5×5 w/ an occasional additional set of 3×1, or 2×1 if I’m feeling particularly spicy.
Food: Not force feeding but defnitely eating more. Paleo with the exception of cheese and of course heavy cream in the coffee.
BS/DL/Press loading is still a bit paltry as I am still wary about re-aggravating a low back injury I just recovered from, hence the additional DL/GM broomstick work.
So far so great. Training days will lessen once additional recovery is required. Probably to a 4-day program ala Bill Starr. Hopefully I’ll find some place to O-lift.
righteous!! You need to get on the moose/walrus diet!
Hey Robb-
Been reading you blog for a couple of months. This is some really valuable stuff.
Been CF’ing almost a year now, really happy with the progress I’ve made. I am 26/m/5’10″/175/~8%bf. Your post came at a good time, I have decided to shift my training to a more strength based program for a period of 2-3 months. The goal of this program is to increase ultimate strength and power. Prior to reading your post, I was planning on doing two days of starting strength and a 3rd day of a heavy CF workout. 3 days a week, M,W,F. So that leads me to my questions…
1) How do you feel about you mass gain program, would you make any changes if you were to do it again?
2) Your program looks to have a Starting Strength philosophy, how and why did you make the departures from SS to achieve your goals.
3) Do you plan on going back to just CF and if so how do you plan to keep the gains you’ve made (diet modifications ect.)?
1-I thought it went great…like I said in the original piece, I talked to several people about this and arived at the program via consensus.
2-I just wanted to keep a modicum of metabolic conditioning. If you read Rip’s forum they have a few hybridized programs that look like this.
3-As in front page WOD’s? I doubt it. WO’d that take me 15-25 min to complete just destroy me. I tend to focus the bulk of my training in the 5-8min realm. That said, I suspect I’ll do some kind of OLifting, sprints and short CF wods for the rest of my life.
Robb,
Thanks for the help, I think I am going to turn my focus towards strength and olympic lifts. I am very new to the formats of mikes gym and performance menu WODs. Lets say its 80%x5x1 CJ, Should I be working up to this weight, or hit a few warm up reps then jump into it. I don’t want to be over doing it. Thanks again
Sam-
Post this on the Catalyst WOD! I’m not the OL expert, Greg and Aimee fill that bill. In general however you wnat to focus on mechanics first, then start thinking about loading.
Robb,
Great post! Been reading your blog for the past couple months and have learned a ton. I’ve done a cycle of starting strength before and had to reset the weight on my squat a couple times. I was wondering if you had to do this on any of the lifts or were you able to increase the weight each week?
Jarod-
I started conservatively and increased the weight in small increments…I don’t think I had to dial the weight back other than on the power clean when I was not feeling peppy.
holy F’ing comments… i can’t keep up.
Just so you know, I am being good. Except I used regular soy sauce today because we haven’t gotten over to Trader Joe’s yet for the gluten free goodies. I am going to stick it out.
I will need your help, though, to make sure I am working out my insulin stuff, or whatever, correctly. I don’t want to screw up my body and my strength.
Oh, tell Nicki that the sweet potato outback style is my new addiction. Along with dark chocolate. I haven’t had ice cream or the likes since I have been home. And I have only had 2 diet cokes!
right on Girlie! You will recover so much better with the improved nutrition.
Great post, Chubbles. I’m also curious to see an example menu of 5000 calories with paleo only. I used to bulk on 5-6000 calories per day and you’re right, it f-ing sucks after awhile. In the end I was blending and drinking as much “food” as I could to make it go down easier. Couldn’t imagine doing it on paleo!!
Aye…it’s been rough. Leaning out is SOOO fracking easy by comparison. yeesh!
Poliquin doesn’t like Crossfit.
For the rest of you folks who want to gain strenght and size buy Mark Rippetoe’s books Starting Strenght and Pratical programming for strenght training.
You cannot expect to gain a lot of strenght while doing a lot of Metcon and vica versa. You have to focus on either one of them to get the most out of it.
Robb,
How would you approach things differentlly if you were thinking more long term and of a more sustainable diet, but still wanted to move up a few pounds? ie. from 160 to 170 over a few years
I’m assuming you don’t want to stuff your face forever and I’m wondering if learning from Poliquin suggests there are hormonal changes to pursue that would have more subtle weight gain effects?
Greg-
If I could control insulin better that might help…I do think hpwever the body responds well to these focussed efforts. One could simply try to eat clean, progress loading and work capacity and this might do the trick.
Nice post Robb. It seems like mass gaining and in turn, strength gaining is running rampant in the CF and CA communities.
Good stuff. I’ve realized in my own experience that it’s nearly impossible to pack on weight eating 100% clean Paleo. At least a couple of rules have got to be broken to get it done.
It’s not all that fun going for 4000+ cals/day every day. Somedays I just give up and call it quits.
Robb…loved the article…what do you think of a MEBBish schedule…I was thinking of single modality 5×5 strength sets(squats, presses, DL’s) followed by a 10 min metcon (AMRAP of 15 double unders, 5 pull ups for example)…in your opinion, if coupled with enough eating, is this too much for a 3/1 schedule or is it conducive for mass gain…either way, I was inspired by your experiment.Thanks.
andy-
Sounds good but I can not emphasize enough the need for recovery and the need to progress the loading. If you do too much, too often it will not work. YOu will blow up…
Hey Robb,
Congrats on the strength progress! I’ve been doing SS for two months and have seen my squat increase from 185 to 235. I’ve been eating meat and veggies, but would like to add some type of dairy milk product for recovery post workout. I drank a 1/2 gallon of Straus Whole Milk and it was delicious, but I had serious digestion issues afterwards. Do you think I could supplement with Raw Milk, Goat’s Milk, or a Greek/European yogurt with live cultures to help digestion? I believe the extra protein, fat, and carbs will help my mass gaining phase. Thanks for the anticipated advice!
Try yogurt…both cows and Goats. The goats milk is also a bit easier to handle the lactose. If that is the the issue it needs to be something like yogurt.
Hey Robb,
I asked you a question on this post already, but I had another one pop into my head–hope you don’t mind.
Idk if you’ve ever heard the term “former fat boy” or FFB. It’s thrown around T-nation.com a lot. Anyway, I consider myself one of them because I’ve lost roughly 50 lbs going from 205 to anywhere between 148-152 lbs now, standing at 5’7″. Anyway, the school of thought behind FFB’s is that since they were once fat, they still have those fat cells in their body just empty ones and because of this the “eat boat loads and lift heavy” approach doesn’t tend to be successful because those fat cells will always want to fill up before the body creates new muscle.
As someone who knows a thing or two about nutrition, what is your take on this and how would you recommend going about adding some good, and for the most part, lean mass?
Andrew-
there are some key developmental points…last two weeks in utero and right before puberty that if we gain lots of fat, we split and increase the number of fat cells we have. What this necessitates is very tight control of insulin levels if we are to maintain leanness the rest of life. Cyclic low carb may be a good way for you to go.
Robb, wow this has been a great topic! I pose this question to you, what is easier cutting 10lbs body fat or gaining 10lbs lean muscle? Also in what time do you think each could be achieved on any frame you wish to hypothesize on. Thanks, Kristian.
Loosing 10lbs of fat is almost laughably easy compared to gaining 10lbs of muscle. A low carb, slightly calorie restricted diet…christ, it’s so easy it’s almost not fair. I’d say an easy 1-2lb/week fat loss. If you are packing yourself to the rafters with food you might get a similar gain in the opposite but it tends to be something like 50/50 fat and muscle gain. The bottom line is it’s way easier to get lean than to get big.
Hey Robb,
First off I love the post. This was just what I needed. I’m around 150 pounds and pretty lean. I love crossfit, but when it comes to my Total, I wish it would be higher. I did a program like you did for around a month, and definently got stronger, but with a catch. My metcons when down. How did your metcons fair? Did adding a short metcon in on some days help? Lastly, I dont want to drink any dairy, so other than milk post wod, what should I be taking in? Right now I have some juice since its easy to get my hands in college. I try to keep most of my carbs post wod.
Met-cons will drop a bit, not to worry, they will bounce back. Keep a little in there to keep your head straight and so you are nto working from absolute scratch when you shift focus. I just did a post on PWO nutriton, give that a looksie! No worries about the dairy…it works but it’s not the only way to do it.
Robb,
You appeared pretty ‘bulked’ to me at your nutri cert training… Thank you again for the cert training in Chico!! I hope you and Nicki are well.
How were the cookies (the gluten-free jam prints)? Seriously, did you hurl afterwards? I didn’t know that garbanzo flour was completely off ‘Paleo’!! Sorry!! 3 ‘golf’ points…
Don’t forget to ck out the blood 25(OH)D for the vitamin D level with the goal 60-80 ng/ml in mind. Proper vitamin D levels as you know protect against autoimmunity and in fact create TESTOSTERONE gains (and estrogen 4 u gals *wink) sometimes from 400s to 600-700s naturally. Does Poliquin know? He appears to get substantial T from ?? somewhere?? j/k
My asthma resolved and notably the TSH/thyroid normalized to 1.0 after I started vitamin D last Dec 07 (despite still hitting the wheat and Corona which I’m 100% off now).
-G
What’s up Hottness!? Those cookies had spelt in them too! Gluten everywhere…you trying to kill me? I’ve been taking my Vit-d…still need to get it checked. I did notice some cramping till I increased my Mg…I remember you mentioned that. I really want to do a month long research gig on vit-d…It’d be nice to just work my way through all the b’s and the basic vits to get my knowledges up on all that. When you coming back to chico for a visit!?
Robb,
Your post is something I’ve been waiting for a while. I’ve been doing CF for about a year and 3 months and went from 180ish to 160 9% BF. However, the strength-esk stuff in CF is really really tough on me. 95 lbs thursters is MURDER to me. My total ain’t bad, (790). We’ll see how a month or so goes on this. For reference I’m 5’11.
Chad-
You get that total over a 1000 and your thrusters will not be a problem!
Hey Robb,
I have been trying to boost my crossfit total numbers for quite sometime now and I have seen little success. I row 6 days a week which minimizes my recovery time, but I would like to know what progressions will help me get some awesome max out numbers.
I am 6’2” 185 and my max numbers are 315 deadlift, 285 backquat, and 185 push press. I would like to get my deadlift above 400 lbs, my backsquat above 300 lbs and my push press above 200 lbs. I usually lift heavy three days a week. What is the best method for achieving my goals?
Thanks,
Ben
Ben-
Simple, progressive overload. Have you read Starting Strength and or Practical Programming? Get’em! As a base-line you could follow somehting similar to what I did. Follow day 1 pretty much as is, start your loading at 75-80/1RM, then progress the loading every week. If this makes no sense, get those books and read the MANY threads on SS at crossfit, performance menu etc. Day 2 keep in the power clean (if you back squat and power clean your DL WILL go up). Work a weighted dip on this day also…similar 3×5 or 5×5 dealio like SS. If you are doing that much rowing keep your weight session to 2 days per week OR do a light speed type day for day 3 with 8×3 Back squat, standing press and pull-up. Make this 40-50% of 1RM, take 1 min between sets. The pull-ups could be replaced with say 50 kipped pull-ups, in however long it takes you to do them.
Robb,
Very helpful post. I look forward to the menu. Was/is Creatine a part of the equation for you?
Chris!!
I saw a missed call from you afew weeks ago…still owe you a return call. I’v ento used creatine in some time, but I like it. 5g/day, just cheap monohydrate.
A couple of quick questions:
1) How much rest did you take between the 2 sets of cleans on Day 2 and how soon after the cleans did you start the 10 minute workout?
2) Were the pull ups on day 2 kipping or dead hang?
3) Are the Now Food Enzymes you take the tablets?
Love all the info you provide us and can’t wait to see how you do on the CA workouts.
1-about 5 minutes between all strength sets. Pretty much rolled straight into the 10 min WOD.
2-kipping. I trained weighted dead-hangs on day 1.
3-No, it was caps…the tabs are likely fine however.
Hi Robb,
You’re post is exactly what I’ve been waiting for. an increase in muscle mass, strength and power but not sacrificing too much in endurance… So how does your training look like right now? Do you just follow the Catalyst Athletics WOD on day 1, Speed day on day 2 with day 3 as the heavy cf metcon day?
best,
Russell
Just the CA WOD and a bit of gymnastics (Handstand & Ring work). I can’t handle much more than that.
worthwhile post. how did you transition from the bulking phase into IF’ing? I’m a lean type with a low appetite, I don’t have a problem gaining muscle mass with diet and exercise, but it’s preserving the mass afterwards that’s difficult–if I stop acting like a human garbage disposal, or get tangled up in some long weeks at work, those hard-won pounds start to disappear.
Nathan-
Not IF’ing at present…still wrangling with some adrenal fatigue so I put the keebosh on that. I jsut eat normal meals, no force feeding and have actually gained a bit more. I think this is due as much to an emphasis on heavy lifting as on food.
Great article, thanks Robb 🙂
Though I’ve been trying to find out the best kind of training/diet to get stronger without necessarily putting on a whole lot of weight. I know that putting on weight will mean best results for strength, but to just get stronger do I just lift heavy without eating in caloric excess? Or is it more about the set/rep scheme?
Tim
Sydney, Australia
Tim-
Yea, if you are looking for just strength sans weight gain we are looking at a cyclic low carb diet, heavy weights, low reps etc. Pavel’s work is pretty accessible for this type of stuff as is Coach Sommers work on the gymnastics side.
Hi Robb…
On the power cleans, is that 2 sets of 10 reps or 10 sets of 2 reps?
Russell
10 sets of two! No met-con here, power production.
Robb, cool stuff! I am too beginning my transition into shorter met-con, and heavy / oly lifting to put pick up some more mass.
My question is: did you ever write a follow up article to if and how you got rid of that extra body fat?
I am a sprinter at the university I attend and I was hoping to avoid accumulating too much extra body fat while building muscle.(Not the most flattering sight in spandex).
Dylan
I’m in the leaning out process right now. I’m supposed to hit the regional qualifiers but I need to get surgery on my finger to re-attach a tendon, I’m getting lasix in Feb AND I need to get a vasectomy reversed. It’ll be interesting to see how all that plays out but I have thus far maintained above 180, strength is “ok” and met-con is coming up. IT does suck however….weight that used to be lite is now heavy, and I have little to no met-con. I know it’s a give-n-take, but psychologically it just blows.
Robb,
was hoping to make an appearance at the qualifiers as well but strength is horrible. i plan on doing SS and a short 5-10 metcon at the end. I found the SS wiki site and took a glance at the nutrition to get an idea of how the hell im going to eat that much damn food while still following paleo. what could i substitute for milk, for i have read mixed reviews about drinking that much whole milk. Some advice from you would be awesome, im in dyer need of throwing on some strength!
Do the milk for 2 months…it works!
hey robb, just wondering if you ever got a chance to document what you’re meal plan consisted of? As always, appreciate everything you’ve done and continue to do for the CF community.
ryan-
I never did…it was just a shit-load of food.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, may all your wishes come true!
Hey Robb, I want to ask you a question. I have started Starting Strength. I’m sticking with the original program with a few ab exercises thrown in here and there.
I am 5’9, 180 lb and at 20% BF. My goal is to be able to squat 300 pounds and to deadlift 400 without being TOO muscular. I’d like to keep a lean/skinny physique such as this man’s.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dtaWqzV6d7M/Rrk60fOTUxI/AAAAAAAAACM/amVj6Ash8QY/s1600-h/Mike.jpg
What is your reasoning for eating between 3000-4000 calories a day? Why do you need to eat so much food on a SS regimen? If you are hitting your protein requirements, getting sufficient carbs (Which is what exactly? 100g?) and fuelling on fats then WHY eat so many calories?
Is it possible to make gains while losing fat on a 2500 calorie diet?
What exactly was your average macronutrient split? I mean 4000 calories… That’s GOTTA be mostly fat right?
Also what’s the ideal g of protein I should be consuming? 1.5x my lean body weight?
Thank you Robb.
Holy cats that’s a lot of ??’s. Choose a goal. Is if lean out? Gain strength? Pick on, drive the boat that direction, then switch gears.
Heh, sorry Robb let me narrow that question down to a nutritional one. I will at first stick to the SS philosophy of maximizing beginning gains. So my focus is on being able to incrase my squat etc, by 200 pounds+ in three to four months. Gaining 10+ lb of muscle will follow from that and once my progress slows I can cut down the calories to lose bodyfat %.
My question is how much protein, carbs and fat intake do I minimally NEED for maximum recovery. I’m doing his original program consisting of squats, powercleans, deadlifts, presses and bench presses.
And why do I need to consumer 3000+ calories worth of food? What does hypertrophy and hyperplasia have to do with carb intake? Can’t I paleo this one out? With 100g-400g of carbs (coming from rice and sweetpotatoes, and veggies), 200g of protein and the rest fat?
Hey just had two quick questions. I have had difficulties with chronic inflammation in the past so do you think that it is smart to avoid the milk when doing this mass gain? I am not sure if the milk has anything to do with my previous inflammation as I was dairy free and still suffering from inflammation. Also, I also saw you did a mass gain protocol in the performance menu with Greg, out of the two protocol’s this one and the one on the performance menu do you have a preference?
YOu know, more than anything else I’d get your androgen levels checked. Make sure you are at least a 700-800 total testosterone. THEN I’d just do what looks fun and yea, i;d avoid the dairy. If androgen levels are low you gotta get that addressed. All the food will be a waste otherwise.
I have been working with Chris Kresser who is amazing by the way. I have low testosterone (low 300’s) 22 year old male. Low cortisol rhythm probably due to stress and drinking/smoking throughout my teenage years ugh. So here’s my question; is working out at all a good idea? or should I just hold off until I am completely healthy. Right now I am following your mass gain protocol from the SS menu except I am no longer eating my face off and I have dropped all the weights significantly (for example instead of deadlifting 200 I only do 135). It is my hope that by reducing the weight I am doing I will give my self a chance to heal while still not losing significant strength in the mean time. Do you think this is a good way to go about it? Or should I stop working out all together until I am better? As always one question seems to have a way of turning into 4 lol
I think just EASY training. check out Dan John and Pavel’s “Easy strength”
One final question 🙂 I noticed you said to wait like 5 minutes between sets for maximum benefit. Could I switch back and forth between sets cutting down the waiting time but still making sure that there is 5 minutes between each individual set? Like deadlift set wait 2.5 minutes press set wait 2.5 minutes deadlift again or does that 5 minutes need to be doing nothing.
your the man!!