Back with episode 36. Here is the link that Robb mentioned regarding the nickel content of many foods. I also couldn’t resist posting the hilarious video of Tracy Anderson and Gwyneth Paltrow discussing Gwyneth’s work out regimen.
Download a transcript of Episode 36
Show Topics:
- Nickel Allergy
- Hair Loss
- Hot Sauce
- A1C / Raised pulse, bp, adrenaline
- Dairy Consumption
- DHT
- Saturated Fat from Animal Sources
- What is Fitness?
- Crossfit
- Paleo Stomach Calming Foods / Runny Nose after Eating
Show Notes – The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_36
Hey Guys — regarding the nickel sensitivity. Any consideration to occupational nickel exposure adding to her problem? Is she a hairdresser, metalworker, house cleaner, etc?
Mark-
I think I mentioned the environmental issue to consider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIXmbSyJlg&feature=related
Wake up your accessory muscles!
Alex-
I am scared for life…I lost like 30 IQ points and I’m already skinny in that area.
Oh, say that video is a joke! I literally screamed in dismay when the trainer said “No woman should ever lift more than three pounds…”. Wife burst in and thought I had electrocuted myself. Nope, just voicing my horror at what some consider “fitness” expertise.
Keep fighting the good fight Robb!
I’d suggest to the hair loss guy to be proactive. he should start on finasteride (propecia) and minoxidil (5%)….he should also take Nizoral 2% to reduce DHT levels. That combo works on almost everyone…but remember that it works more a STOPPING hairloss than it does at regrowth…so best to act early. Sometimes diet and exercise are not the only answer.
So are you saying that a male who follows a healthy paleo life style with smart training, good sleep, and a solid paleo diet will not experience hair loss?
Jack-
that’s my guess, yes.
Your last digressions on the “What is fitness”- about jits, dance, etc… are critical and spot on!
Be well, have fun!
Robb, how do you feel about saw palmetto? Ive been taking it from age 23 to 30 to prevent hairloss as it lowers DHT. After listening to the podcast im thinking that i should stop taking it.
Well, Gwyneth Paltrow works out really hard considering I heard that her diet is nothing but drinking hot sauce and lemonade. If that was all I consumed, I don’t think I’d have the energy to do much more than move my arms around either.
Hi Robb,
I took a blood test for food allergies a year ago. It came back with many allergies but it was somewhat suspect as most of the allergies listed were also the only foods I was eating. I ate almost daily; eggs, beef, ginger, yogurt, cow’s milk (pre-paleo), mushrooms and wheat (pre-paleo). These foods were also the only ones that came back as me being very allergic to. The only wild card was pineapple which I also came back as very allergic but rarely ate. Was one allergy causing the rest? Ive been Paleo for 8 months and still get stiff joints, light headache and general feeling of unease when I eat certain foods. I notice it the most when I eat cheap pork or have a lot of cow’s dairy but even conventional grown beef (which I eat a lot of) can seem to cause it on a smaller scale.
This really impacts my life as Im constantly stiff, tired and have a headache so any insight would be greatly appreciated. I also wake up every morning very stiff. I am a 30 year old male.
Exercise:
Starting Strength 3 days a week
Walks of 30 mins 3-4 days a week
Just started to jog and do sprints (less than 2 miles)
Supplements: 10-15 grams of fish oil a day, 5-10K IU D3, B-complex, l-arginine, vitamin K, Natural Calm before bed (2 tablespoons), SAM-E, probiotics, Norwegian kelp.
Eat: Typical day
Breakfast: Nitrate free, hormone free bacon or sausage
Lunch: Steak (conventionally grown) or chicken (organic from Costco) w/ baby bok choy or baby broccoli cooked on grass fed butter with sea salt, black pepper and maybe some olive oil.
Dinner: Same as lunch or chicken curry salad from Whole Foods, or Seafood Blend (shrimp, calamari, scallops) from Trader Joes (cooked in grass fed butter).
Cheats: Dark chocolate from Trader Joes (85% cacao), greek yogurt, glass of red wine once or twice a week
Drink: Green tea or water filtered in brita
Thank you for any direction or insight you can give. Ive listened to all the podcasts and have gotten a couple of my friends onto your podcast and website.
Hey Rob,
Mike Mentzer did a ton of work with the HIT one set to failure and consistently set new PRs throughout his bodybuilding career even after achieving a perfect score in Mr. Olympia. (clearly not a novice). He had to continually invent new techniques to achieve these gains, but the focus was on a decrease in volume, increase in intensity, and increase in rest period, rather than an increase in variability in activity.
Can you comment on how you feel about Mentzer’s (and Arthur Jones’) research, as well as what you would recommend for someone who is interested in muscle size purely for the look and is not concerned with performance/fitness? Also, Tim Ferriss used similar methodology to go from 146 to 187 in 28 days, in a well documented study at San Jose State University. For someone who has been chronically underweight his entire life, is this a good protocol to follow for expedited weight gain?
Thanks,
Geoff
Don’t even know where to begin with that Gwyneth Paltrow video…
The hot sauce question generated a quick question. What about breath mints and sugar free gum. I occasionally use these as a masking agent when I feel like I have bad breath. I know its not paleo but scaring people with dragon breath isn’t cool. Am I un-doing all my hard work and creating sugar like insulin spikes throughout the day? Love the podcast and can’t wait for my copy of the book. Thanks
My guess is to why there is a changing of the guard in CF is that the Games are different every year. Other sports – track and field – let’s say have the same events each competition, thus the athletes that excel at these events rise to the top. CF athletes have to train such a broader spectrum and thus I think it would be hard to remain on top.
Love the podcasts! Thanks!
Quick comment about the last caller — the Now Super Enzymes actually caused me to have allergic / inflammatory type reactions to all foods I ate (primarily hives during and after meals). I felt the ‘heat’ after one pill, so I apparently did not need the extra HCL which the Now Super Enzymes contain. I suspect the HCL irritating my stomach and causing me to react to foods that I am not normally sensitive to (basically everything I ate). These reactions stopped in a couple of days after I switched to an enzyme-only formulation without HCL (Twinlab Pancreatin to be precise), which still greatly improves my digestion but leaves me postprandially itch-free.
Definitely agree that many people could probably benefit from playing around with some digestive support, enzymes are dirt cheap and at least in my case I could tell immediately that they were helping. Wanted to sound a note of caution on the Now Super Enzymes though — if you don’t need the extra HCL, it can hurt you.
Avocado-
thanks for sharing that, good info.
Rob,
I have some athletes that have some pretty nasty dairy reactions, so I have taken whey out of there post wod yam slop and replaced it with some type of animal protein. During the hotter months folks just seem to rather drink something down then eat something. I just recieved an email from a company called paleo treats, they have made a recovery drink with what looks like some fruit extracts and some egg protien. The website is http://www.paleotreats.com. Is this good to go as a recovery drink that would be a viable other option for some folks?
Thanks,
Matt
Matt-
Looks ok, give it a shot.
Hi Robb!
Is liverwurst Paleo? This is vital to the survival of the human race.
Emily-
Yes.
About the Natural Calm, beware the “orgainic” version which has stevia in it. Also, introduce yourself slowly, per directions. Per directions…
Mike-
I’ve used the product with stevia with no problems.
As far as the crossfit competitors: how much do you think the changing of the top dogs is just because the competitions are still new (4th year?) and in the past couple years it has Gained popularity and attracted some “better” athletes than it initially started with. It’s not like other sports (discuss/hammer) that have been around forever. I think that the newness is a huge factor, similar to mma in the sense that when mma started you had a lot of guys who were specialists in specific aspects, where as now you have kids who are doing very well because they have been training mma growing up.
Spererate note: too bad you Wont be at the second movnat. I’m a little scared of the vegan lunches, I have a very high propensity to getting QUITE sore from workouts, and definately need lots of food. I’m bringing sardine cans incase I need them.
Thanks for another nice show.
Best thing about the Gwyneth Paltrow video is the guy in the comments who wants to put her on a GOMAD 5×5 because she looks skinny.
Could someone (Andy??) please post the recipe for the coconut milk/apple sauce pudding/flan Rob and Andy keep mentioning on the podcasts?
Don’t remember which episode it was first brought up in but, I’d love to know how it’s made. Need a healthy dessert badly!!!
Thanks,
Diego
Robb- Thanks for answering my question about hairloss. It’s interesting that my question tied into the DHT question because that one is a little too close to home and too near the bone for myself. Very recently I lost my father and best friend to cancer which started out as prostate. Of course I’ve been researching prostate cancer because his father had it as well and from what I can gather I need to be on the lookout for myself. From what I’ve read the paleo diet can make a very strong case for helping prevention in prostate cancer, most of my researched concluded with omega 6 and insulin problems. I did however come across the testosterone issue and it worried me because as of now I am only training O. Lifting. Some of the information laid it to rest but it sounds like I need to monitor my DHT levels along with some other things.
Hey guys, thanks so much for tackling my testosterone/DHT vis-a-vis prostrate cancer question. As a follow-up to that, would either of you happen to have a recommended resource (link, further reading, etc) that my friend could check-out and maybe use as a point of discussion with his doctor? It just drives me absolutely snake-shit to know that he’s being treated under the assumption that testosterone and DHT are the villains in the whole ordeal. And, of course my puny liberal arts Poli Sci degree just isn’t holding up to his doctor’s “vast experience” and impressive collection of sheepskins.
And thanks, too for the Theory to Practice plug. You guys rock. By the way, Robb, I fly Southwest quite often (and pretty much exclusively) and I’ve never had a problem with them. Maybe it’s all the free drink tickets they load me up with, I dunno. They did lose my luggage in Houston recently, but another free bloody Mary calmed me right down. Anyhoo, thanks again, guys, for another killer show.
Keith-
I’ll think on that resource. I remember Colgan’s stuff was good but have not read it in ages. Southwest has given me nothing for free other than more time in the airports!
Hey Robb, thought this might be a good podcast question:
I live in Pacific Beach, San Diego, and we have a lot of vegetarian/vegan dirty hippies all over the place. I also work for an organic catering company and I have to deal with said dirty hippie vegans all the time :/ While their complete lack of muscle mass, healthy hair, and use of soap is obvious, I continually find myself defending my stance of eating as much dead animal matter as possible. In a Crossfit video with Kelly Starrett (who Welbourne claims can heal the sick with his tears), Kelly points out that dense protein sources i.e. anything with a face and a soul that was unrepentently slaughtered and put on a plate) are critical for glucagon production. I understand glycogenolysis and the resulting gluconeogenesis, yet I am unable to completely explain why it is so important to consume dense protein sources.
PLEASE TELL ME what to say to these dirty hippies to help them understand why quinoa and black beans just don’t give the body the amount of protein it needs. Is the body unable to use the protein in these sources? What are they missing out on by not having adequate glucagon secretion? Is there no glucagon secretion whatsoever without dense protein source consumption?
I ask also because I have a chef friend who is writing a cookbook for a woman he knows who has lymphoma. He’s read in many places that when you have cancer, you shouldn’t consume any animal products. Any help you can give me in fighting the good fight against granola, hemp necklaces, and body odor would be GREATLY appreciated!
Multibomber-
this will be fun.
Great episode, especially since you answered my question. 🙂 Got another one now.
As being in the male age group (45) where the benefits of testosterone stars to decline, what ways can one help maintain healthy testosterone levels? I know diet, looking at pictures of naked women, etc., can help, but what other ways? Any foods or supplements good for helping maintain or boost levels?
Thanks
P.S. If you do start to approach double digits in listeners you can start counting in hexadecimal, that should get you another year of single digit listeners.
Wayne-
Will tackle this asap.
I like the hexadecimal idea!
Appreciate the response Robb… it is baffling to me as well. But, if I am gaining on the mass/performance side… and seeing no negative side effects (as far as gut irritation) from the milk… I’ll keep it up for now. Let me know if you find anything.
Hi paleoers. This yoga/sustainability magazine published a very brave article about why eating meat is good. They are getting trashed! It would be helpful to add your voice to the din of die-hard vegans.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/07/why-practically-all-i-eat-is-meat-john-spina/comment-page-1/#comment-101945
A good thing I don’t hang out in yoga classes anymore, although I can do my Ashtanga practice better than even thanks to Crossfit and Paleo.
I tried the HCL too (after my doctor said my B12 was low, so I thought it might help, only to find later the doctor misread the results, and my B12 is fantastic)
It totally burned my stomach – just one pill.
Hey Guys,
Another great show. As far as testosterone boosters this was interesting
http://www.superhumanradio.com/super-human-radio-show/515-otc-testosterone-boosters-do-they-really-work.html
If you can get past the commercials and bodybuilder type mentality seems like some legit stuff in there from my decidedly unexpert point of view.
Hi there and thanks for all the great info you are sharing. I’ve just recently found the podcast and am catching up. I am science geek too so really appreciate the geeked out bits.
I have celiac. My diet is not Paleo, I still consume dairy and brown rice. I am an amateur figure competitor and am preparing for a show in September, so don’t want to make wholesale changes in diet right now, the plan is for Paleo after the show. My prep is very sane for a figure gal, 3-4 days a week resistance work and 2-3 days HIIT, then just some low level activity with walking. Tracking and weighing. At 5’7″ and currently 125, losing fat at about 1700 calories with protein 125-140 g, carbs and fat variable dependent on training or cardio/off day.
After my show, I’d like to transition to a non measuring non weighing Paleo diet to maintain about 5-7# over stage weight. Would this be a really bad idea after a contest diet, since my appetite regulation may be impaired a bit? Even though I’m dieting smartly, it’s still caloric restriction and I imagine there may be a small amount of hyperphagia rebound going on. I can control it if needed, but it sure would be nice to be able to rely on hunger cues instead of a scale. I definitely don’t want to go nuts with eating, but would love to be able to relax a bit about food. I feel very fortunate that I have only a minimally unhealthy psychological relationship with food after competing in figure on and off for a few years now.
Any tips for easing the transition into a non measuring Paleo plan?
Secondly, tips on buy-in to help me with my husband. He’s a genetically gifted individual who’s been able to eat McDonalds and pizza and keep good body composition externally. He’s now 42 and is just beginning to notice a small metabolic slowdown-so now Taco Bell is less frequent He does train. He won’t go get blood work done. I cook quite a bit at home which helps, but he still goes for cereal, bread, and fast food when I’m not around. He’s not the most open minded about food choices.
For his health and my peace of mind I would love it if he would make the changeover to at least more Paleo-esque. I’m thinking my best bet may be to cook some phenomenally tasty Paleo meals. Any tips for dealing with that?
Thanks so much! Looking forward to the book.
Erin-
Will hit this in the podcast but check this out for now:
http://www.paleobrands.com/2010/03/31/figure-show-on-a-paleo-diet/
Hey Robb,
Given your tagline on third world proteins versus paleo proteins, I thought you’d appreciate this article from T-Muscle: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article_issue/issue_635?s=indexTitle#green-faces-diet
Mark-
Not quite face and soul, but close!
Robb and Andy — GREAT PODCAST and I appreciate the nickel allergy info (which I have).
Keith — Dr. John Lee talks a lot about prostate CA origins and strategies for successful prevention.
http://www.prostate90.com/sci_papers/prostate_hormones.htm
I think also vitamin D, minimization of n-6 oils and adequate dietary and lifestyle sources of reduction of E1 and E2 and environmental xenoestrogens. Vitamin D raises testosterone (and E3) which is cancer protective. Mainstream does not understand this.
thanks Grace!
Hey Robb,
I just got my blood panel back and it looks like Paleo eating is paying off. I’m not sure if I should be looking to lower my total cholesterol and LDL or not. They wouldn’t do a LDL Pattern test when I asked. I assume these are all the standard measurements as I just got the values over the phone. Using Mat’s notes from his seminar I think they all look pretty good except for LDL and total cholesterol (need to come down) and vit. D (needs to go up). HBA1C wasn’t part of the normal panel (usually only done for diabetics he said). Same thing for fasting blood insulin.
Age: 26, 6’0″, 210 lbs.
Total Cholesterol: 203
LDL: 150
HDL: 47
Vit. D: 46
Triglycerides: 31
Fasting Blood Glucose: 94
Cardio CRP: 0.3 mg (after asking him to do a general CRP, my doctor said he cares more about heart inflammation)
Liver Stuff:
AST: 38
ALT: 64
ALK Phos: 39
My liver enzymes were a little elevated so I’ll have to look into that further. I have to go back next week to have more labs done for that. I read a comment on the ModernPaleo blog from Dr. McGuff: ” ALT is aspartame L-transferase. It is elevated likely due to increased efficiency of gluconeogenesis.” Are you familiar with this?
Any thoughts would be great, thanks. Also, I know you hear this a lot but great podcast! Really enjoy listening every week.
This article is from the latest T-Muscle Mag:
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article_issue/issue_635?s=indexTitle#green-faces-diet
Correct me if I am mistake, but this looks like almost identical to your version of the paleo diet. Eat meat and veggies, except in the “periworkout” window. You recommend yams and sweet potatoes, they recommend supplements that serve the same purpose. They are calling it the “Green Faces Diet.”
Ben-
Remarkably effective at NOT calling it the paleo diet.
Hey Robb
i really hope i don’t piss you off by keeping asking the same question again…I know you’ll deal with female alopecia in the future but I’d just like to know whether the answer you gave regarding male hair loss also applies to women.
In particular I’d like to know whether persisting alopecia can be a sign that I still have hyperinsulinism: i have been eating paleo for almost two years now but nothing has changed with my hair.
Can it be possible that female alopecia is a symptom of gluten sensitivity? I have started only recently to be obsessive with avoiding gluten…do you think that may help with my hair?
thanks (can’t wait to see you in copenhagen AFTER having read your book!)
love
Th
thalin-
Autoimmune alopecia is super common and I’m seeing a pattern of this in women of Italian ancestry. Paleo Brands was born because Joe’s mother’s hair grew back with paleo (she is not 65, lost her hair at age 43). That could certainly bit it
Robb, I placed my first order with US Wellness for gassfed beef but I have not heard much about pork? I eat a bunch of “Bacon” and I am wondering if the Cost Co low sodium bacon is ok or do I need to seek out the “Compassionate Certfied Pork” Thanks
Rob-
This pork is amazing:
http://www.llanoseco.com/page/store-locations.php
Hi Robb,
I have been talking with a friend of mine who is vehemently low-carb and lives off of a diet of processed meats and no vegetables. He claims nitrates are just fine, and he can’t find any proof that vegetables are important to diet. I don’t even known where to start on convincing him. Are there studies out there that indicate the importance of fruits and vegetables in the diet, as opposed to eating salami and taking a multivitamin?
jeffrey-
Well…he may not be that far off:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/06/nitrate-protective-factor-in-leafy.html
http://www.staffanlindeberg.com/LiteratureSurveys.html
Mark R,
Re liver enzymes – one test I had they were a little high, I had very sore muscles at the time from a workout – came down when the sore muscles went away.
Muscle damage from intense exercise can raise AST and ALT a little
Andy – I’ve tried to make “coconut apple pudding” a couple of times, but can’t get it to thicken. Can you post a recipe? or maybe discuss it in more detail on the show?
Thanks robb! I AM reali desperate about tris. I’ll hold on. But i have no Italian ancestry whatsoever. I live here in Italy but my genes Are 100% Armenian 🙂
Thalin-
Well…we’ll just keep chipping away.
I started doing some snooping around on testosterone and found two articles that were interesting. I haven’t had a chance to research the claims made in either to see if the science looks solid.
http://www.mikemahler.com/magazine/179.html
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/58
Wayne-
I’ll check that out, thanks!!
@Grace – thanks so much for the link!
Thanks for posting that great butt and arm workout. I have to go out and buy my 3 lb. weights now.
Erin, I’d suggest your hubby to read Nora Gedgaudas’ book Primal body, primal mind. That together with Gary Taubes’ Good calories, bad calories made me realize once and for all that being lean or normal weight doesn’t equal health. Sometimes vice versa, since gaining weight may be considered as a body’s “defense” mechanism. Also weight gain is a noticeable marker: so if you don’t gain weight no matter what you are eating, there’s no way to tell anything’s wrong just by looking at a person.
But maybe this is too heavy for him if he ain’t so motivated? 😀 Anyway, maybe you can read them yourself and quote the best bits. All the best for the competition!
Greetings from sunny, for once hot! Helsinki!
Alex Stuart –
http://www.norcalsc.com/index.php/index.php?/post/baked_apples/
I would also love to see andy’s apple coconut recipe, but I feel he’s holding out on us! C’mon andy, you can’t tempt us with a description like that and then not provide the details, haha.
I’m sure that this is not Andy’s recipe, but here is how I make my version.
270 gram can full fat coconut milk
3 granny smith apples (green skin)
2 teaspoons cinnamon or to taste
70 gr coconut oil
1/2 vanilla bean or 1 teaspoon vanilla extract
Peel and core apples. Put apples and remaining ingrediants into a pot and cook until soft. Put in batches into a blender and blend till smooth. Put liquid pudding into ramikins or into a large dish. Place into the fridge until set – 30 mins/1hr. Pudding should set a little harder than a mousse
I usually do 4 batches at once as it doesn’t last long. Also adding 1 banana per double batch adds a nice touch. I have played around with butter as well as coconut oil. Adding butter to the existing recipe reduces the hardness of the set pudding (and tastes great too – butter makes everything taste better!)
While the cold set pudding is great – 3yr old and 6mth old daughters love it! – the warm liquid pudding is great as a warm drink (it is winter here in Australia).
Thanks to Andy, ridiculous amounts of fat are easily consumable!
Hey Rob & Andy,
First of all thank you guys for providing the podcast, love the great information. My question has less to do with dieting but rather lifting, I am currently doing a lot of squats, dead lifts 50 – 100 yard sprints, box jumps and pull ups. I had scaphoid surgery about 9 month ago and cannot bend my left wrist back as a result of it. Which means I can’t do presses cleans or any other Olympic lifts. I know that you advocate the low reps high weight theory. Just wanted some ideas or suggestions. I am 24, 6 feet, 175.
Thanks again guys,
Drydupfob
@Wayne – Thanks for the links!
NP Keith.
@Drydupfob, you should be able to handle back squats and deadlifts still, maybe even the bench press. You could also look at weighted pull-ups and weighted dips.
I agree, the Oly stuff is probably out but you can still get in some good strength work with the above. Hopefully Robb or Andy have some other suggestions.
M/40/73/210
I’ve been a podcast lurker for about the last seven months. I’ll listen to several episodes at once, then wait for a few weeks then repeat. I really appreciate what you guys provide. While I’m still at the linear gains level, I’m an avid swimmer and I am currently following CFFootball. I’m sure I get less than adequate sleep and eat less that 100% paleo every single day; however, I have more days where I feel great and perform well. I’m not as lean as the guys who compete in the CF games, but I don’t know if I ever had a six pack.
I’ve been silently lurking in hopes that someone would ask my question(s) so that I wouldn’t have to but here goes:
1. I’ve about had with docs whose specialty ends in “ologist”. I’ve been to three immunologists, a cardiologist, a nephrologist, and I’m scheduled to see a gastroenterologist. The original symptom for which no one can find a cause: my feet swell when I eat salt…and not just a little. My wife and I affectionately refer to them as “the Baked Potatoes”. When it gets to the point of discomfort, I recently found I could drink coconut water and that relieves the pressure but does little to reverse the swelling. I want to know what I can do about it…other than reduce salt intake and elevate my feet because I’m already doing that to the best of my ability.
2. As a result of an ultrasound (of my kidneys) from the nephrologist, I know I have an enlarged spleen with granulomas. Is there anything dietarily that could cause this because I’m not sick, my white blood cell count at the same time frame was fine. Could it be trauma? If so, how much? I got thrown a lot during a two-month Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.
Robb – Great podcast as always. Really happy to hear you talk about what fitness is. I wanted to get your thoughts on something I’ve observed the last 4 seasons working as a backcountry ski guide out of a lodge where all the skiing is “human powered”. You hike and skin up, then you ski down. Unlike the other guides who are in the mountains constantly, I sit at a desk for 10 months and guide for 2, so I’m very aware of training and preparation.
We ask our clients what they’ve done from training standpoint to prepare, and generally our clients essentially fall in 3 fitness buckets: CF folks (endurance and regular), marathoners, and guys who just ski.
Marathoners get hurt on day 4 (so regularly that we have them take it very easy on day 4). The power requirements of going up 10-15,000 vertical a day with a pack, skis and boots are just too much, so knees, hips, and backs just give in.
Guys who just ski tend to do OK, but generally aren’t strong enough to keep up with the volume after a few days.
CF folks do great on day 1, but after 4 years and 50+ CF clients, generally level III-ish, only 8 have made it out of bed AND up the hill on day 2. So far 5 women and 3 guys have managed – on day 2 CF ladies only have about a 15% fail rate, which is the overall client avg, while CF men have an astounding 90%+ fail rate – our clients are mostly guys. On subsequent days the guys do fine, but are way less ambitious. Ironically, given all the t-shirts, posters, and whiteboards out there, “get up and do it again” seems to be a big issue.
When it comes to mountain specific training, guys like Twight and Shaul have pretty much cracked the problem with the same general techniques as CF, but with longer efforts, and more of a strength focus than typical CF programming.
Clearly, the activity I’m talking about here is a repeated power endurance event that also requires a lot of peak strength at specific times rather than a short work capacity type effort. However, when I look at life and the kind of sports active adults do outside of a box, we are talking about a long weekend backpacking trip, a couple days of mountain biking, a weekend rugby tournament where you end up playing 4 or 5 matches etc etc…. It seems to me that, with the exception of combatives and other very specific endeavors, life is a power endurance event.
That said, the huge difference in male/female performance leads me to believe that there are psychological/social factors at play. Is the engrained idea (conceit?) that “I’m unf*ckwithable” and ready for anything lead a lot of men to push much harder than they should? (even though – or maybe because – the guides tell them to take it easy). Women don’t seem to have anything to prove to a bunch of dudes and dial it down as needed.
Is there something to the different psychological approach required for different efforts? 15 min AMRAP is going to hurt, A LOT. But it’s done in 15 min. Climbing up a 2,500′ slope 5 times in a day is a grind and you gotta get your head in a place to just work through it.
Is the issue for CF that longer grinds just don’t fit the business model? If you’ve got clients physically working for an entire hour (not just in the box but actually working) does that mean you have to cut the number of clients you can get in and out?
I’d like to get your thoughts on both the physical and psychological aspects. It seems to me like both are gaping holes in the CF definition of fitness. Needless to say we are trying to manage the group dynamics so we don’t have a bunch of very fit clients staring at bacon and eggs on their second day wondering what the hell happened. We have also tried to get clients on more of a Mountain Athlete plan for the months before they come out, but it’s very hard for folks to find a space to follow that sort of programming. A lot of boxes just don’t have the flexibility to let a client do their own thing. Thanks for your thoughts and sorry for the blog post 😉
Marc / Robb,
I love this topic. I’m an avid backcountry skier, and I find the limiting factor for week long traverses or powder skiing from a hut is how much food I can digest and how much sleep I can get.
Food: I did a trip this winter where I was putting down 6000-8000 calories a day, probably 40% Protein, 40% Carbs and 20% Fat (fat is hard to burn at high altitude). Food was generally made to be easy to digest… soups and stews, Liquid foods, dried fruit
Sleep: I was trying to get 10+ hrs of sleep a night (nights are long in Canada in March).
Most people “bonk” at day 4 or 5. The long days with exposure to the elements takes a toll, but there’s also a lot of strength involved from time to time. My friend and I were the only 2 from a hut of 18 who skied every minute of every day. We are both cross country ski racers, who backcountry ski every weekend.
Just started listening to the podcast (from the beginning) and am ecstatic about the ‘lindy hop’ mention. Thanks for all the great info!