Robb survived Belize just in time for me to get him spun up in the final question of this week’s episode. We lost internet connectivity at around the 1:04 mark so I edited out a few minutes of Robb and I trying to reconnect. Enjoy!
Download a transcript of Episode 30
Show Topics:
- Arachidonic Acid
- Blood Glucose Levels
- Low Platelet Value / Blood Lipid Profiles
- Cortisol Release from Coffee vs. Exercise
- Liquified Food Sources
- Moutaineering Nutrition
- Nuts or Fruit? / Digestive Enzymes
- Rosacea
- CF Athletes
Show Notes – The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_30
My little brothers girlfriend is vegetarian/flkrts with full vegan. Could you please discuss on the net podcast just how horrible that is please…I will be assaulting her with books, podcats, and studies to get her to change her habits as I think it’s border line criminal to subject a baby to that diet. Looking forward to your book and seminar in San Diego…
Clif-
Egads. those vegans get mean!
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-03-17/bay-area/18835123_1_vegan-pie-attack-anarchist
I honestly don’t care what these folks do. If they are at all curious they should do a paleo approach for 6-8 weeks, track blood markers and performance and see who the two compare. That’s as deep into the debate as I like to get.
Robb-
Could you guy us an idea of what your download week looks like and consists of?
Thanks!
Buck-
about 3 sets of 5 reps in core moves (dip, pull up, press, BS, DL) at 40-60% loading. A ton of foam rolling/stretching. That’s about it for unload week.
Great discussion on the nuances of CF culture. CF system has no doubt been the best thing ever for me in terms of training, maximizing physical capacity, job performance (Fire Fighter). Access to the Robb Wolf gig has also been an equally key part of the overall health/wellness/performance equation and it is definitely CF’s loss to have burned that bridge. The more one delves into it, the more one begins to feel something’s not right about certain aspects of the culture. Finding a well-run gym and identifying great trainers has been the best solution for me in cherry-picking the best of CF and working around the CF cultural issues. Well said, maturely/respectfully handled on the topic in this podcast, and it helps to have it said in a way that I sensed but couldn’t articulate. Thanks! (and thanks for constantly telling me that it’s good to periodize/rest/sleep/alter the program when all of life’s stuff is hitting the fan… one of those things where CF arrogance can really screw things up in the lives of real-live people).
Robb, Andy,
Great podcast for No. 30! Highlight for me was Robb getting back to his Teutonic roots and channeling Martin Luther at the end with his nailing of 95 Theses on the Crossfit church door. Bring on the Reformation.
3 points on the show:
1) Could one not view the thickening of the arterial walls due to an increase in blood pressure during exercise as an evolutionarily favourable adaption against damaging/rupturing them during a subsequent bout of activity to ensure survival in the short term, favoured over avoiding a heart attack at 55 i.e. survival in the long term? e.g. hormeosis (Relevant to our ancestors, not so much now as we live longer and don’t have to flee wild beasts. Unless you’re Siegfreid and Roy)
2) Excellent point about the difference between running a modern marathon and running down an animal. I learned this while on a military course in Borneo. The Western soldiers (i.e. Me) would try and walk up hills carrying 60lb packs like it was a 400m race, whereas it was pointed out to us that the indigenous Iban we worked with would walk up steadily, stopping as neccessary. To allude to my ealier analogy: When the White Tiger decides to go 1776 in Vegas, Siegfreid doesn’t have to set a 5K PR- he just has to beat Roy. (As it appears he did).
3) I found a link about exercise research that is already being looked at through the “exercise in a pill” lense. ($$$):
http://news.discovery.com/human/exercise-fat-calorie-burn.html
I have now over-posted my welcome.
Thanks for the podcasts!
Tane
Tane-
You will never over-post your welcome. I see a guest-spot in your future! For the Siegfried/Roy tie-in alone this question deserves serious review, to say nothing of the CONTENT! RE-1 above- Some exterior arterial wall thickening is good/normal. What becomes problematic is interior thickening which also narrow the flow and increases both pressure and turbulence (which tends to thicken the wall). More in the podcast!
Re rosacea etc getting worse a week or so into Paleo. What are your thoughts on Barry Sears explanation that when you start losing fat, some people release a large amount of arachidonic acid from fat cells, as due to their previous diet it has been sequestered there (like other toxins). AA released in large amounts then provides a lot building blocks of the inflammatory hormones.
My observation is that about 20% of people starting the Zone / Paleo / paleo-zone feel great for a few days, in fact lots of things improve – especially health issues people are prone to that are inflammation linked – eczema, headaches etc. Then a few days into the programme everything they are prone too gets worse, headaches, joint aches, constipation, eczema… – this typically lasts about 3 weeks, gradually decreasing in severity. Once people get through this first few weeks they are usually fine and the inflammatory issues resolve even if they continue to lose body fat.
I’ve also found that bumping up the omega 3 a LOT usually dampens the symptoms for most people. Sears theory makes sense to me because most of the problems can be linked to downstream inflammatory eicosanoid etc hormone production, and the issues often respond to large doses of omega 3.
Julianne-
It might be a stored toxin, but I doubt it’s AA. have you added any GLA/DGLA?
That was easily the most entertaining episode to date. The CF discussion was extraordinarily interesting to hear and I for one would love to hear more in depth discussions like that in the future. What would also be wonderful is a podcast dedicated to discussing what are the best programs for which goals and why they are superior. For example, what are the best programs for putting on size and strength? What is the best program for MMA athletes? I’ve had absolutely amazing gains in strength and body comp by following CFFB. What is it about the programming that makes it so effective? If there’s a program that yields better results than CF Endurance, what is it and what is it about that program that makes it superior? I think that there are many of us who are newer to organized S&C or even the wily veterans who’ve been around the block that would be greatly interested in this. I’ve been a walking testimonial for CFFB for about 6 months but when someone asks me “how does it work so well” i am completely unable to formulate an intelligent response other than “It’s programmed by a guy who played 10 years in the NFL and he’s way smarter than you or me.”
David-
Great idea, sounds like fun!
Yeah, my first step is having her read the vegetarian myth, and hope that her 22 year old impressionable self will be impressioned the correct way.
Hey Robb,
This question may be more a psychology thing, but I’ve been having some compliance issues lately and I am not sure how to get really get back on track. I used to have a cheat day once a week, and for the rest of the week I was super strict paleo with absolutely no deviation. Now I have a hard time lasting a full week before I get to eat some ice cream or have sushi (with rice). On top of that I even desire to cut down my cheat day to two cheat meals, yet despite desireing that I can’t seem to do it. Somewhere there is a breakdown between what I want and what I am actually doing. Do you have any tips or insight?
Jay-
is it hurting body comp or performance? Might not be much of an issue.
Robb,
I enjoy listening to your podcast every week. This week was especially good. I really like the red-flagging of the increasing work capacity across…on the main site lately. I have stopped viewing these as WOD’s as challenging daily events and started seeing them as “dick swagger.” The disintegration of The Firm’s relations with their talent has left a large hole in the cohesion that was once a seemingly sound program. It is a sad state of affairs and hard to piece together some semblance of the original shit. Anyway scramble the radar and continue on.
Word, Nate
Nate-
Thansk man, and that fragmentation has not stopped yet.
Aw shucks, Robb. You’ll make a chap blush! We’d have to see about the guest-spot, though. I’m in Saudi, where Norcal Margheritas et al are verboten and I usually only start getting debonair and dashing when I’m half in the bag.
I stand corrected on the arterial wall issue. I should listen more carefully. Also, my anatomical training is rudimentary at best and was mostly geared towards disassembly rather than improvement.
(Also embarrassed about spelling Siegfried incorrectly. Twice. My Bavarian forebears would be turning in their graves)
Having done some endurance-style activities (mostly over-reaching at best and ill-advised at worst) I am not surprised that high-volume aerobic activity actually decreases overall health.
Firstly, I doubt that our ancestors/hunter-gatherers ran 8-10 miles, six days a week. More likely 20ish miles once or twice a week with 5-6 days of rest/other activity.
Secondly, I find it hard to believe that they would try and move like a bat out of hell, either. I imagine it was more like a modern 3:30 marathon runner aiming to complete a marathon in 6-7 hours.
In fact it probably looked uncannily similar to the very successful schedule that Jay described in his recent post.
Keep low, move fast,
Tane
Tane-
Drinks are on me when you get to the US or UK.
Robb, thank you for mentioning that someone with an athletic background might “peak” fairly quickly in terms of adapting to the Crossfit workout style. It is helpful for folks to hear good info that would never come from the primary source. Constantly hearing that the program’s only limit lies with me is a bit oppressive, and your words carry a tacit suggestion to broaden one’s training horizons after the adaptation to the current program is achieved. All I would add is that one CAN add in other stuff and keep most or all of what they previously achieved.
Andy, genius: slipping in the cricket noise in minute 54 without Robb taking notice.
Knocked another one outta the park, guys.
Andy — that coconut/apple concoction sounds like the mo’shizzle. Would you mind posting the basic recipe for us (namely, me) kitchen flunkies, please? Also, what brand of coconut milk do you prefer?
Robb — Spot-on with the CF observation. Hey, I love CF, too — it’s a hell of a GPP tool, when used *as part of* an overall, well-designed/prioritized system. Those of us that have been in the game a while, though, realize the folly of attempting to use the wrong tool for a desired outcome, failure to prioritize or “conjugate”, and/or failing to realize that all modalities work, but no modality works in perpetuity. I kinda side with Poliquin’s notion that the most effective program for the trainee, at this point in time, is the one that he’s *not* doing. CF can certainly be a part of that mix, but it just can’t be (no matter how emphatic is GG’s assertion otherwise), the whole enchilada.
Something I’d love for you guys to cover in a future podcast — Mike Mahler (whom I agree with more times than not), maintains that DHT is actually the “Grand Poobah” anabolic hormone, and that high levels — in an otherwise “clean” hormonal profile — are desirable. A plunge into the testosterone/DHT optimization question — and a discussion of Paleo’s affect this ratio — would be much appreciated. A friend of the family’s has recently been diagnosed with prostrate cancer, and, as you might imagine, DHT is spoken of rather poorly around the ol’ kitchen table. I’m quite sure that high DHT levels are not the problem, but another “something” that is in the environment of a high DHT level that’s the real root of the evil. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks again for the enjoyable string of shows, guys –
Keith-
thanks man, the props mean a lit coming from you, seriously.
I will look into the DHT issue. It IS anabolic but needs management from other arenas (insulin, mitigating estrogens etc). Thanks again.
Andy –
Whoa, how do I go about cooking the coconut milk with apples? I’m currently doing olive oil shots for easy calories and I cannot explain how horrid it is unless you have tried it. I think I can see myself sitting around eating coconut milk apple pudding all day instead.
Remember, these endurance athletes also have an enlarged heart that is caused by this chronic high blood pressure from hours of exercise. This is similar to hypertension causing ventricular hypertrophy, causing CHF in Metabolic Syndrome. I’m not saying these athletes are developing metabolic syndrome, but I’m also not sure the human heart is meant to become enlarged. Not sure how this ties in, but it might be significant.
Question About Animal Fat-
Also, still wondering if you could elaborate on saturated fat from animal sources. You’ve made it very clear the difference in polyunsaturated n-3,n-6 in animal fat and how it affects us. Is there a difference between pastured and grain fed saturated fats other than there being more of it in grain fed. How does saturated fat affect humans? what does it become in the body?
Thanks for any feedback.
Can’t wait for the book.
Ehayes-
will talk about this more but get aquainted with the differences between steric, palmitic, lauric and myristeric. this will make some sense.
testimonial-
My mother in law is 72 years old. I loaned her my Paleo Book not expecting more than 5% compliance. 45 days days go by with no word from her. When she showed up at my house she proved me horribly wrong. She complied and dropped 22 lbs, but that wasn’t even her favorite part. Apparently she had a skin issue with her legs for years and has been embarrassed to wear skirts or shorts. 2 weeks into cleaning up her diet the skin issue was resolved.
So for those who don’t think that your parents or relatives will do this thing, buy them the book, there is hope.
Ehayes-
Damn cool! Thanks for sharing.
Great podcast as always.
Robb, I listened to the interview Jimmy did and you mentioned Huntington’s Disease (I’m the guy who have asked about HD before). Where can I find more information about the research being done in Portugal? Is it possible to follow the progress somewhere? Do they even want participants? Thanks.
Tim-
preliminary stages at this point. I’ll try to get more info
No – I just recommend people start on straight Omega 3.
Hi Robb,
Re sat fat – could you also comment on this recent meta analysis:
Replacing Saturated Fat with Polyunsaturated Fat May Cut Heart Disease Risk
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2010-releases/saturated-fat-polyunsaturated-fat-cut-heart-disease-risk.html
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/3/535
It appears that this relates to Omega 6 polyunsaturates, from vegetable oil.
Julianne-
Any way we can reduce n-6 is likely a good call.
Another great podcast, loved the whiteboard reference and the last question, and your commentary on it. I’ve found the “elite” attitude that many in the CF area push just a big friggin turn-off. Don’t get me started on CF games and “The fittest person on the planet” either…
But a good thing to talk about is what exactly is fitness? I know a lot if it is relative but if a client or potential client came to you and asked “Robb, I want to be fit! What do I need to do?”, how would you answer that question?
You and Andy keep up the good work.
Wayne-
I’ll take a crack at this in the future. Great topic.
I just stumbled on the site and have only listened to #30. A few things struck very close to home.
For the guy doing radiotherapy, eat anything you can by mouth. It sounds like the same thing I went through 5 years ago and I reckon I rehabilitated my perotid glands by doing just that. Get down whatever, its really hard when you have third degree burns in your throat and you are slugging down morphine to cope but there must be something… for me it was the crap you get from the hospital in little boxes (and unpronouncable ingredients)and ramen noodles with real chicken chopped in tiny pieces. And anything that could go in the blender. You gotta eat what you can and not worry too much what it is, that can wait. I refused a feeding tube and I think it was the best choice. I did lose 7kg that hasn’t ever returned, but so what? I just had my 58th birthday and took the last few weeks off to cycle with my wife in Italy. And posted my best time in “le Race” (a half size “tour” ride) in Christchurch NZ.
Kem-
that’s awesome! I think an arguement can be made not only for packing as much calories in but to also make those cals better quality. It CAN be done! Congrats on the ride!
Hey Robb,
I have had some pretty bad toe fungus for about 3 years now. I have tried the medication, but I just felt horrible on it after about a week and I had to stop. Is there is any “paleo” alternative to the harsh medication that most doctors recommend?
I eat paleo with very little fructose in the mix (about 99% of the time i.e a cheat meal once a month). My toe fungus originally sprung up in high school when I played basketball pretty much everyday.
Ben-
I’d step up to some 21st century interventions! Thee is a laser treatment that works great. Ironically, it was developed by a guy here in chico, but it is available nationally. Just google “toe nail fungus laser”. Standard paleo will help prevent re-infection as will supplementation with s. Boulardi.
Robb, Allowing my self 10 minutes so may be a little choppy…
Great stuff on Mountaineering Nutrition. I bonked really bad near the end of a long day in the mountains last fall hiking around 10 – 12K feet. I was thinking that maybe I just needed more carbs and stay warmer longer, it was a cold-ish, windy day. Last weekend went on another longish hike at altitude and had more carbs and food in general and felt good enough at the end to run out the last little bit. I think next time I will experiment with Accelerade because I seldom use it but know it works for me digestively.
Also great stuff on CF at the end of the post. Super helpful with validation on some changes at the gym.
Hope to see you soon.
saulj
Saul-
Great stuff! I hope all is well with you.
I second Wayne’s request for a podcast on Robb’s two cents on the “I want to be fit” prescription.
So far it has not hurt performance or body comp. I guess I’m more worried that it may if I keep going. I used to think those people who couldn’t stick to their diets were weak and should just suck it up because I was so good at it. Now I’m not and I know how it feels. Anyways, I digress, I will figure it out. Thanks Robb.
Re fungal infections: a year ago you mentioned soaking in vinegar to someone. I had a skin infection on my shoulder that kept coming back after fungal ointment – tried this – put a vinegar soak on for 1/2 hour day – and then some cream and it completely cleared up (after having it a year)
Peoples pharmacy has a good list of treatments some people try and find success with:
http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/build/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&limit=20&search=toe+fungus
Yea, the vinegar soak works pretty well, but the toenail fungus is feisty.
I haven’t yet made it through all the podcasts, so if this has been covered I apologize.
Anyway when you talk about people eating only two or three meals a day, is that in addition to some type of post workout nutrition/supplementation? Specifically with regards to weight training workouts.
For example if someone was eating only two meals a day, would it be okay to eat their first meal at 8am, train at 2pm and then eat again at 8pm with nothing taken during and/or immediately postworkout?
I ask because I’ve always eaten and trained like a bodybuilder and so the idea of going 6 hours after working out without eating or supplementing with anything pretty much flies in the face of everything I’ve always heard.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide with this.
John-
We have talked about this. Bottom line: How do you look, feel and perform? If a specific schedule is negatively impacting any of those (2 meals per day) then alter it accordingly). Some folks do GREAT on the schedule you described. Others tank on it.
Andy,
I made the coconut, apple, cinnamon “pudding” two nights ago. It is AMAZING. I could eat a gallon at a time. Thanks for sharing that gem.
Robb,
Keep on keepin’ on. Loving the podcast. It is great to have a weekly reminder to continue eating well. Although, at this point, I can’t imagine going back to my old ways.
Hey Robb, quick question about von Willebrand disease (vWD). I have a client who was just diagnosed with vWD and what seems to be a low platelet count. It appears to be a mild form, as he has made it through to middle age without ever having problems with excessive bleeding, even after surgery and stitches, etc.
What are some numbers he and his physicians should be looking at? His doctor has suggested medication, but he would like to know how a diet intervention will help the condition. How does the paleo diet affect clotting disorders such as Haemophilia and vWD, etc?
Thanks!
Alex-
too much fish oil can decrease clotting, other than that it;s not likely to have an effect one way or the other unless the disease has an autoimmune component. In this case it could be beneficial.
Hi Rob & Alex,
I have vonWillebrand’s Disease Type 2B & have just started the Paleo diet a little over 4 weeks. My iron counts were always low & I always felt so sluggish or used to until I went Paleo. I have a lot more energy & I feel better than I have in awhile. My mood has changed & my body is starting to take shape. I don’t know if the constant bruising has slowed any, but the premenstrual effects are to a min. & almost non existent. I plan on continuing down this path & not allow this disease to control my life anymore.
Thanks Rob for all your guidance & information!
-Cassie
Oops, I forgot to mention, I also don’t take any medications. If something was to severely go wrong or if I had a bleeding episode, I would be injected with Humate-P, but this is only for emergencies.
You Bet Cassie! Keep us posted.
Robb,
First off, I love your podcast and want to say thanks for all the great info you have provided. I follow a very strick pale diet and have seen marked improvements in my health including a reduction of my A1c to 5 (aiming for 4.2.)
I was very excited to see the addition of beef jerky to the paleo line. However, I am very perplexed by the ingredients:
Grass fed beef, Water, Soy Protein extract, Salt, Corn syrup, Caramel color,
Distilled vinegar ,Molasses, Sugar, Spices, Anchovies, Tamarind, Smoked flavor, Granulated garlic.
Really? Looks more like a SAD recipe then paleo. I purchase jerky from U.S. Wellness that is free of any non-pale incredients and wonder what led to the inclusion of soy protein, corn syrup, caramel color, molasses, and sugar in the Paleo Brands. I would appreciate your feedback on this
Rene-
Yea, that’s a MAJOR sore spot for me. it will be “fixed” within a few months. It’s embarrassing and I apologize. At the very least it’s gluten free but the 2nd generation will NOT have these other issues.
Rob,
Re: acne, will be great to hear Dr Cordains views on the 1 in 30-40 who dont respond to the usual paleo diet. Whats the crux of the alternative? Drop fish oil and add GLA/DGLA(how many mg??). Im been full paleo for years, take 4-5g epa/dha a day, 35yo, ~10% body fat, and though i dont get many spots, i get the occasional huuuuge one – I have one right now on the bridge of my nose which is a sight to behold believe me!!
Thanks( ps love the podcasts).
Tony.
Which episode did Dr. Cordain end up coming on to talk about acne? I can’t seem to find the podcast or any blog post.
He is still working on the book, he will be on soon.
Robb, what is your take on the inflammatory properties of coconut? What is the best way to mitigate these in a diet where the majority of fat is from coconut sources (other than dousing my food in chile peppers)?
SEAN-
coconut is a pretty low inflammatory food. No worries there.
Robb,
Quick one for you…
Shirataki Noodles – Good, Bad, Indifferent?
http://www.miraclenoodle.com/miracle-noodle-products.html#AngelHair
They are made with something called “glucomannan” which I gather is derived from the root of the Konjac plant.
There is basically nothing to these things.
If these get your blessing, I will be going ape-shite on some wannabe pasta, but I have a feeling they are not gonna make the cut.
Holding my breath until I hear back from you!
-Dave
Dave, did you ever get an answer on this? Perhaps I missed it in a thread somewhere. Thanks!
Thanks Robb. Looking forward to to the 2nd gen.
I just listened to this podcast yesterday and something you said really bugged me. First off, I do not eat totally paleo. Many of my meals are, but I have 5 kids with one on the way. I drive 1 hour plus each way to work and work shift work. Excuses, excuses.. I know. But I love my many cheats. But back to why I am sending this message. You basically stated that pure Crossfit doesn’t work. The way you quantified this was to point out the great up and coming athletes that are beating out the long time crossfitters. I disagree. My thing is you need to compare the athletes to themselves (i.e. are they still getting PRs regularly) and not compare specific individuals.
Either way, thanks for the podcasts and info. Your podcasts sometimes keep me awake during my long commute. Good luck with the book.
Thanks.
Rod-
Exactly, and folks are NOT following .com programming and progressing. That main page programming has been held up as the end-all-be-all. Many others have argued it needs some tweaking and in very specific ways if one is to progress long term. That’s addresses your point, my main point was that we do not see other sports with a complete changing of the guard each year. Age may remove some folks but experience and skill-set SHOULD be worth a ton. In CF we are not seeing this. Perhaps I’m wrong, but this is my observation after coaching this stuff for 7-8 years.
catching up on older episodes. my wife is a veg (i emailed you about her the other day). she’s committed to attempting paleo but not to eating meat (i’m working on her). she’s been a veg since childhood. she’s got serious rosacea.
you spoke about low dose gla. should that be from borage oil? any inflammation issues with the omega 6’s? what’s a low dose?
thank you!
I’m gathering some info on the paleo diet and rosacea for a friend of mine that gets rosacea when she spends any time in the sun. Do you hear back from the women who asked the question on rosacea? I’m curious to hear how things turned out for her. Also any additional info you could point me to would be appreciated.
Thanks for all you do!!! I’ve been paleo for about four years – it cured my acne and hypothyroidism.