Download a transcript of this episode
Topics:
1. [2:57] Body Temperature, Mental Suffering, Starvation
2. [25:45] I Almost Ate My Boyfriend!
3. [29:14] Skyrocketing Cholesterol
4. [34:01] Sour Dough
5. [35:40] Recovery Protocols
6. [41:36] Gall Bladder Removal and Dysphagia
7. [46:47] Late Night Binge Eating Myth
Questions:
1. Body Temperature, Mental Suffering, Starvation
Smuggling Peas Says: Dear Robb, Big question here, but I will try and be as pithy as possible. Ray Peat and his fan club, good people that they are, advocate reducing most all unsaturated fats (i.e. poly and mono) in place of saturated fats claiming that unsaturated fats are not meant for animals with as high a basal body temp as ours. Fish, for example, have a lower body temp. Their protocol also includes other suggestions that I have a hard time accepting, such as the heavy consumption of orange juice, eating 6-7 times a day, and not avoiding sugars if one has candida. The aim of these suggestions is the optimization of thyroid output as measured through sublingual temp. I don’t get it. I’m just not certain I’m convinced that 1) sublingual temp is indicative of thyroid output, 2) that I should consider adopting the annoying habit of eating that often, 3) that fatty fish and avocados actually promote inflammation via oxidized unsaturated fats. I’ve given it a 30-day trial and all I can say is that I have more cravings and find myself annoyed by eating that often, but otherwise no real noticeable differences. So what do you think?
Dear Greg and Robb,
Smaller question. What is with crossfit and making workouts so damn painful. Is it really beneficial to push that mental suffering more than 1x/week? I know it varies by the box, but you have to wonder the benefit of suffering to that degree at all.
Last one Robb,
On iCaveman you lost 16lbs! Holy hell! You mentioned that you had some stubborn areas that you essentially ate when you were starving. What implications might this have regarding low calories diets for those once metabolically deranged few that after finding salvation retain a tiny pooch?
2. I Almost Ate My Boyfriend!
Deb Says: I started following the Paleo protocol a little less than two weeks ago and I love it.
I’ve coupled it with a pretty intense ice hockey training regimen and Olympic lifting. The results have been awesome.
The one thing that I don’t like about it is the fact that I wake up in the middle of the night so hungry that it hurts. I think my metabolism is so fast that I am burning through whatever I’m eating much faster than I ever have.
I didn’t dwell on this. I just put a bowl of walnuts and an apple next to my bed each night when I went to sleep. This has filled me up enough to fall asleep again.
It got worse though. I had to make sure there was something there right away in the morning, too.
Last night, things got a little frightening. I had a late dinner with my boyfriend and our parents (the families met for the first time. It was nice.) and I had a huge steak and tons of veggies. I went to bed full, with no walnuts on the nightstand.
I woke up and I felt like a wolverine. I looked down at my boyfriend’s arm and for an instant, I swear, I thought about taking a bite out of it. Granted, I was half asleep and I would never even dream of eating another person’s arm, but I was so hungry that the thought flashed in and out of my brain.
It freaked me out so much that I ran to the kitchen and sat on the floor with the bag of walnuts until I was sure to be full.
A.) I don’t want to wake up in the middle of the night anymore.
B.) I don’t want to eat my boyfriend while he sleeps.
Please help me figure this out!
3. Skyrocketing Cholesterol
Adam Says: I started Paleo/Primal this past February. I devour all the information I can from you and several others, most notably Mark Sisson. The results have been wonderful. I feel great. I have lost some bodyfat, but I was already running pretty lean. I am trying my best to do the whole program…sleep in total darkness, NO grains, only very occasional sugar, exercise as per your recs, etc.
Problem….I have had 3 lipid screens done in the past 9 months. My total cholesterol has gone up from 269 in February, to 317 in May, and now 374 in October. My HDL has been consistently between 60 and 70. My triglycerides are generally below 100. I know all about the flaws in the lipid hypothesis, the importance of the ratios, etc. It’s easy to stand behind those when it’s someone else with a TC of 374 and an LDL of 290. My wife wants me to get looked at by another doctor. I will do anything to avoid being prescribed Lipitor. Pretty sure I wouldn’t take it anyway, but I don’t want it to come to that. What are your thoughts? Continue blindly onward? Eat more whole grains? (:
4. Sour Dough
Scott Says: I received and read your book last night. What a great book and very well explained. Thank You
My question – I am under the impression that sour dough is a protein, and that the starch is converted to this as part of the fermentation process.
Is this true? And if so, does the protein contain the right balance of amino acids. I understand to make anything with sour dough you usually add refined ingredients, but I really would like to know if sour dough starter itself is similar to a meat protein.
Thanks
5. Recovery Protocols
Mike Says: Robb, can you and Greg briefly outline your top 3-5 simple workout recovery therapies? I am focused on Oly and power lifting and would like to minimize DOMS, so please address timing relative to the workout session. Thanks, and keep up the great work.
6. Gall Bladder Removal and Dysphagia
Samantha Says: I was reading your book and I got to the part where you mentioned dysphagia and linking that to having had your gallbladder removed.. It just so happens that my mother has a really hard time swallowing even if it’s just a small bite of food or water or even just a small pill for something. She had her gallbladder removed 20 or so years ago and is eating a non-paleo diet.. I told her about the connection and she wanted to get more information on the subject. Do you know why there is that correlation with gallbladder removal and dysphagia? And if it will improve if she eats a gluten free diet?
7. Late Night Binge Eating Myth
NeoBerserker Says: WTF, Robb? Mark Sisson says late night binge eating is a myth since your body doesn’t know what time it is and you say the opposite. Is this one of those things that you looked over and need to rethink? Is there real proof that late night eating will slow down fat loss? Iv’e tried both and iv’e lost most my weight by eating late at night, then I heard you say that it hinders fat loss and my fat loss was slowing down, so i tried not eating late and it didn’t really seem to help, but their could be other issues at hand, so I have no real proof either way. Can you link to some studies?
Robb,
Thanks for taking my question about my cholesterol. I am excited to see what you come up with on your new comprehensive lab protocol. I had my vitamin D checked in May. It was 40.2, and for the past 4 months I have been supplementing 2,000-5,000 IU per day. I am assuming that has gone up. My VAP test revealed mostly pattern A LDL. I have not had my CRP tested. My thyroid numbers came back good.
I am cutting back on saturated fat intake. I am also going to give completely cutting out dairy a shot. Right now the only dairy I consume is pastured butter. Would it make sense to substitute sweet potato for some of the calories I will be missing by reducing my saturated fat intake?
The Paleo Physicians network was the first place I looked when I got my most recent results. However there is no Paleo doc within 3 or 4 hours of where I live.
Adam,
I Had a similar experience to you.
Started to eat very low carb Paleo+Dairy Feb-08. Even though the TC/HDL consistently improved the TC was sky rocketing until Dec-09 at 410!!!
Vitamin D was at a reasonable level all the time around 40. Didn’t do any consistant excersie. Had very often cold hands and feet and were not on top of my game energy wise.
After the Dec-09 test I thought f*** this low carb thing and started to add back carbs mainly in the form of rice and potatoes (and beans once in a while) (sweet potatoe should work fine as well). I don’t know the exact amount but it probably was somewhere in line with what Paule Jaminet recomends in his Perfect Health diet of 100-150g/day. Didn’t really reduce the saturated fat intake (potato bake with plenty of cream and cheese with BBq lamb yum, yum). Low and behold, after adding back some carbs the TC&LDL started to drop and about year later it had virtually halfed from 410 to 238.
Since I’m still doing lots of sat fat I don’t think that was the main contributor to high TC&LDL for me. In hind sight I came to the conclusion I was either too low in carb and my adrenal glands couldn’t keep up or I was spontaneously eating a too low calorie diet.
Cheers
GoEd
Date____________Tot/HDL_TC______LDL_____HDL_____Trig
24-Jan-08_______6.50____304_____218_____47______187
16-Jun-08_______6.00____374_____296_____62______80
7-Oct-08________5.50____347_____265_____62______98
1-Dec-09________5.20____410_____316_____78______80
25-Feb-10_______4.53____335_____246_____74______80
20-May-10_______4.24____281_____199_____66______71
12-Nov-10_______4.07____238_____160_____59______89
Adam,
I had a similar concern with my results recently. After much searching I discovered that not only is the LDL particle size an important factor, which Robb mentions, but that the LDL figure may in fact be incorrect if your triglycerides are low.
Some case studies have found that a direct LDL measurement may be necessary if your triglycerides are below 150, as the calculated figure, (Friedewald formula) which is how your LDL is normally reported can be overstated. See link below.
http://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/full/10.1043/0003-9985%282001%29125%3C0404%3ALTLACO%3E2.0.CO%3B2
Something to consider with your next blood test.
Have you tried adding some eggs and liver into your mix? What you are experiencing could be related to choline and/or micronutrients like copper, selenium, magnesium or zinc. Adding 8oz of liver and maybe a dozen eggs a week should help.
GoEd, Awesome advice. I appreciate knowing that someone else was able to lower their TC without downing a pound of oatmeal a day and totally avoiding saturated fat.
Adrian, I had my LDL directly tested with the VAP test. It was still very high, but mostly pattern A.
Geoff, I eat about 15-18 eggs a week. Pastured eggs with huge bright orange yolks. I have not eaten liver in probably 10 years.
Don’t go to graduate school for a PhD in the US! Do it in Germany or somewhere else in Europe or Australia, where you can actually finish in 3-4 years, rather than 5-10 (and above). I also wonder if they are more open to any of this stuff in Europe in terms of funding?
Do you guys have any gym recommendations for Denver? I need to get my ass in the gym again and soon I will have the time again, but I don’t know where to go and now I’m scared of trying just any crossfit gym. I want my body to last a long time and I don’t care for the aggressive, competitive penis parties. I want to have fun, get in shape, and learn some new stuff. Background is black belt in 2003 in TKD and was in great shape. Since then, graduate school and mostly running but often out of shape. Right now very out of shape.
Thanks for distracting me during the boring tasks in the lab!
Crossfit-Mountain Division on the southside of Denver. Great Instructors and good schedules. On the NW corner of Holly and County Line. I’ve been going for over a year. Highly recommend…
Front Range CrossFit. Drop by and talk with Skip and Jodi Miller. They have, of course, CrossFit workouts but they also have strength training, Olympic Lifting, rowing seminars, nutrition seminars, etc. They’ve taken several athletes to the CrossFit games for several years.
Speaking of the whole Crossfit situation. You should really start your own affiliation program. There needs to be some kind of affiliation or certification to show that the place/person knows what they’re talking about, is not trying to kill people, knows proper nutrition, etc. I think that would be pretty helpful for people.
OPT CCP …
We have something in the works.
2nd!
thanks for talking about psmf. i paleoized lyle mcdonald’s rapid fat loss plan and it definitely pushed my setpoint down. if a person’s stuck on a plateau while strict paleo, i’d say check into it and see if it’s something you could get with.
Wow Deb it must have taken courage to admit that you were looking to eat your Mans arm. Could it have been an emotional reaction to meeting the in-laws.
On Crossfit the sports I have competed in Swimming and canoe kayak most good coaching comes with a set of instructions on how intnese the effort should be. Full out every day produces dimished results. However if you have all the skills for the sport and have not much time I do think less volume and higher intensity is the optimal direction.
I belive that the people who can do 6 a week at a high level have been athaletes there whole life and are living the Tudor Bompa model on a long term basis. I think all the stuff in the crossfit journal is awesome! However I am not sold that the intesity RX is correct. I have been listening to louie Simon videos on youtube and think that he is on to something with the conjgate system. I also think an easy bike ride or day of body surfing are just as helpful as a hard Metcon or heavy day.
Ice Bath there is a Russsian sauna here in Los Angles 35 bucks for the day ice heat contrast pretty awesome
Awesome podcast and thanks for doing this for so long. If you do decide to go for a doctorate your thesis could be along the lines of something like “Has modern medicine stopped evolution?” If you think about it the theory about evolution is that only the strong survive to reproduce and pass along their strong genes to the next generation. However with modern medicine we are able to side step evolution in order to save weaker genes that would then continue to populate the society. Just something to toss around while thinking about going back to school.
Again thanks for the great two years of podcasts, can’t wait to hear the next one.
Cheap home Hydrotherapy: Alternate an ice pack for 1-3 minutes and a microwaved rice sock (great use for grains!) for 3-5. Trade off 4 or 5 times. 🙂 Where pools are plentiful and it’s not swimming weather, I’ll go stick my arms or legs in a cold pool. Invigorating.
–Melissa Kimball, LMT
alternating cold and hot water in the shower works pretty well too
Best day of the week! Podcast Tuesdays!!!
Indeed. I had it downloaded to my droid before I even got out of bed this morning.
I could listen to you two talk about what’s wrong with Crossfit and why it fails ALL DAY!! MORE!!!!
Ha! Well, we should do a piece on everything that is good, as there is much in that category.
OOh! Do both, please!
Yes, a 3 month cycle of good CF programming would be very instructional. Bashing on crappy programming, whether CF or not, is probably not the most productive use of your limited time, you have so much to offer.
Robb, for raising funding for research projects you could consider the kickstarter platform – http://www.kickstarter.com/ . Easy to set up and a few tweets, blogs and links later, just watch the pledges roll in! This community will get behind it in a big way. Cheers.
Rob,
I reversed a non-alcoholic fatty liver going from a 20g fructose/day paleo diet (which I followed for a year) to a 250g/day fructose paleo diet using Ray Peat’s guidelines. So for me his recommendations worked extremely well.
I searched the site for more of your thoughts on him but I couldn’t find anything else. I would be genuinely interested in a further critque of Ray Peat’s work seeing as you think “They are just mad as hatters over there”.
Also,
“This notion that warm blooded animals do not have polyunsaturated fats..”
Don’t recall Peat ever claiming this.
Regards,
Edward
Some animals have evolved (in v cold environments) the ability to lower the freezing point by increasing the molality in cellular fluid and tissues thru certain organic substances.
In the case of the peeper frog, this happens by massive breakdown of glycogen in the frog’s liver and subsequent release of massive amounts of glucose. Pretty cool what evolution can do.
Just a housekeeping note: i tunes has this episode listed as episode 82, at least it does here in the uk!!
Love the podcasts – keep up the good work.
I had my gallbladder removed and then I had melanoma 7 yrs later, metasisized to my lung. Later I developed disphagia. Thanks for the blog.