The Paleo Solution – Episode 71

Performance Menu: Journal of Health & Athletic Excellence

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Show Topics:
1. Dr. Oz & Gary Taubes
2. Awake at 3 AM Every Night
3. Colostrum & Leaky Gut
4. Gluten & Blood in the Urine
5. Protein Fasts
6. Need for Fructose?
7. Post Workout Shakes

Show Questions:

1. Dr. Oz & Gary Taubes

Gary Taubes was on the Dr. Oz show on March 7, 2011. Could you please, on your next podcast, do a response to Dr. Oz concerning many of the fallacious views that he presents as factual to his audience, and how he unjustifiably maligned Taubes. Granted, I know there are some differences between what Taubes says, and what strict Paleo advocates preach, but there is a lot of agreement as well, and I think Scott and Andy could perfectly articulate what went wrong in that interview.

2. Awake at 3 AM Every Night

Michael Says: Even after following Lights Out recommendations of dark & cool room, in bed by 10pm, no TV or computer 30 minutes before bed and using Natural calm I still wake up every morning by 3:00. My cortisol levels are 9 in the am and 0.4 in the pm. Please help.

3. Colostrum & Leaky Gut

Steve Says: I subscribe to “Medical News Today” RSS feed and this was posted a couple of different areas. In a nutshell, daily Colostrum reduced leaky gut syndrome by 80% in athletes compared to athletes that are not taking Colostrum.

They also mention that Colostrum could reduce the occurrence of heat stroke, which might greatly help out troops in the middle east or places similar. Thanks for the feedback!

4. Gluten & Blood in the Urine

Therese Says: Do you have any information that gluten could cause blood in the urine? I am following Paleo, but I am Catholic and attend daily Mass and receive Holy Communion. Could that small amount of wheat/gluten cause blood in the urine? Thanks!

5. Protein Fasts

Craig Says: I noted that while on the show both Mat Lalonde and Tim Farriss advocated short duration protein fasts to promote autophagy where plants and oils are still consumed (is that how it goes?). What’s your take on this protocol? Specifically, is it safe for someone who doesn’t intermittent fast because of cortisol management considerations, and if so, how would you suggest implementing it?

6. Need for Fructose?

Will says: Ok, so I listened to Lalonde go off on fructose, and then read his article on your blog about low carb CF that he referenced on the podcast, and then I watched the link to fructose being a toxin and talked about this with my girlfriend who brought up the Lights Out bit about seasonal eating to get fat and make it through the winter. Like all men I want to be jacked and Fight Club ripped, not 70s big, but Lalonde said he put on some meat doing what he did.  So, if we don’t NEED to get fat and make it through the winter (especially in Manhattan Beach) is there any need at all for fructose? Or should I just stick to tubers? But those are only seasonal as well, so what’s a guy to do? And please give me a good explanation to give to my girl.

7. Post Workout Shakes

Jessica Says: I just finished reading your book. I have been listening to some of your podcasts and trying to absorb as much information as possible. I read an article in the CrossFit journal about post workout nutrition and how a protein shake is optimal given that is absorbed more quickly and therefore leads to a greater recovery. A.) I want to know what your opinion is of this and B.) I was wondering how you felt about Primal Fuel Whey protein powder.

Also, in this powder there is said to be “Prebiotic Fibers”. I was looking into purchasing the probiotics that you recommended from Jarrow, but how would the combination of the “Prebiotic Fibers” (whatever those are) and the Jarrow-Dophilus interact? Would there be unnecessary overlap? Also, there is said to be Kelp in the Whey mix—would this take care of any iodine needs?

Sorry for all the questions—just trying to piece it all together! :)

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Categories: Podcasts


Robb Wolf’s 30 Day Paleo Transformation

Have you heard about the Paleo diet and were curious about how to get started? Or maybe you’ve been trying Paleo for a while but have questions or aren’t sure what the right exercise program is for you? Or maybe you just want a 30-day meal plan and shopping list to make things easier? Then Robb Wolf’s 30 Day Paleo Transformation is for you.


    • Patty Engler says

      That explains a LOT! Even my Mom commented on how awful that episode was and how her opinion of him plummeted after watching that.

  1. CanadianArcticPaleo says

    I like the fact that I don’t have to hear any fruitless debates between you and other practitioners on the podcast. I already experience enough resistance from my family and friends waving their fingers at me saying I’m going to die from my low-carb/paleo lifestyle. I like the various blogs, podcasts, and forums for being a part of something like-minded.

    Thanks for the awesome podcast RobbyBobby!

  2. Matt says

    Say Goodnight to Insomnia by Gregg Jacobs is an excellent, science based approach to improving sleep. It is a six week program that takes some effort, but I found it to be very effective (without having to rely on supplements)

  3. Michael says

    PLEASE have Alan Aragon on the show, the dude is such a douche I would love to hear you guys argue with him.

  4. angela says

    Great podcast guys! I was wondering if I understood Mr. Robb correctly, did he say he takes 10-30 mg of melatonin a night? I always limited myself to 6 mg per night and I do respond to melatonin but I know that if I took at least 9 mg i’d sleep like a baby, but i’m always “drugged” the next morning if I take more than 6mg and than I have to sleep till 11 AM to sleep it off. Strangely enough, I go through months where i’ll take <1mg melatonin and I am out like a light and other months i'll take 6 mg and am awake till 3 am.

  5. In need of an answer too says

    I have the exact same problem in #2, and I’d love to know the answer. I’m deaf and don’t have access to what is being said in any of the podcasts. Could I get a quick typed summary of the reply?


    2. Awake at 3 AM Every Night

    Michael Says: Even after following Lights Out recommendations of dark & cool room, in bed by 10pm, no TV or computer 30 minutes before bed and using Natural calm I still wake up every morning by 3:00. My cortisol levels are 9 in the am and 0.4 in the pm. Please help.

  6. Norcal Mike says

    I too have had great success inducing sleep with melatonin, but at a lower dosage than Robb put out there, 1 mg. I started with 5 mg and then went down to 1 mg (dissolvable tablets), without any loss of effectiveness – always asleep within about 10 minutes after taking. I now only take it after doing exercise late in the day or when I otherwise feel wound-up nearing bedtime. The sleep seems deeper too.

  7. Ryan says

    Regarding 3 am wakeup. What about bi-modal sleep?

    “Discovered in a wide variety of early documents by A. Roger Ekirch, a historian at Virginia Tech, segmented sleep is found in modern non-industrialised societies, medieval, and early modern Europe. Segmented sleep is also particularly common in the winter.[1]”

    “The modern assumption that consolidated sleep with no awakenings is the normal and correct way for human adults to sleep, may lead many people to approach their doctors with complaints of maintenance insomnia or other sleep disorders. Their concerns might best be addressed by assurance that their sleep conforms to historically natural sleep patterns.[6]”

      • Michael says

        Robb and Greg,

        Thanks for addressing my question on this podcast. Tried the Honey and cin. trick last couple nights, as it was in the house, but like clock work, woke up at 2:30, but luckily fell back asleep. Like Greg I am moving on and going to get Silymarin, Milk Thistle Ex, and Alpha Lipoic acid today. Considering the the 6-12 Accupunture visits as the $80 per visit is a cost benefit argument to weigh out.

        Thanks again, I’ll let you know in a week or so.


  8. Paul says

    Hi Robb,

    You talk about Greg’s waking up in the middle of the night (something I go through as well), what are your thoughts about Diurnal sleeping, or sleeping in non-8 hour segments at night. I’ve read other blog articles in the Paleosphere about this, that 8 hours straight might not be the norm. Thoughts?

    • says

      It may in fact not be the “paleo norm” but we absolutely DO NOT go to bed when the sun goes down. Our photo exposure is far different than the ancestral norm, and that recommendation of 8-10 hrs in a dark room is based in part on research and part on the observation that when people do not sleep this way, they look, feel and perform WORSE.

      Polyphasic sleeping and similar stuff may work for bomber pilots doing a USA-Afganistan run, or work obsessed type A business moguls, give it a run and see how well it supports a hard training load.

  9. darius sohei says

    guys, this was one of the best episodes i’ve listened to, thumbs way up, you are evolving or some shit, and then there’s a smiley face.

  10. garfinkel says

    Great response to the Oz vs Taubes show, which I was angered and frustrated by. I’d like to add that Oz is a cardiac surgeon. American medicine excels in emergency medicine, but lacks otherwise. I don’t doubt he is a stellar surgeon, but a poor doctor, who is not well read on current ideas.

  11. Scooter says

    Also, for Catholics who are gluten-intolerant, there are quite a few gluten-free communion wafers available commercially now…

    • Johanna says

      Talk to you pastor. If you require gluten-free communion wafers, the diocese will be sure to make that available to you at your parish. My church in CT has that option and my mom’s church in CA does too. This is something the church is aware of and will address if you ask them to.

      • Lacy says

        In regards to the comment of the Catholic Church being able to give out gluten free wafers:

        According to the Catholic Church you are not to receive Hosts that do not contain gluten.

        The Holy See has declared that some gluten is necessary for the substance to be considered as true bread. And thus a gluten-free wafer, in spite of its external resemblance, is no longer bread and thus is incapable of becoming the Body of Christ. – Father Edward McNamara- Catholic Online.
        Also in Canon Law: Can. 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.

        §2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.

        §3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine and not spoiled.

        There is an alternative that does contain 0.01% gluten. Even for some this can still cause a problem. Here is a website for these low gluten Hosts.
        Here is also another article on the matter from Living Without Magazine.

          • mikeD says

            A friend of mine who is a Priest explained to me that you can take just the wine and fulfill your sacrament. He also noted there are ‘reduced’ gluten wafers but yes they have to have gluten to count apparently.

        • says

          This is doctrine and religiosity, I don’t get it. I would think God would be more concerned with people acknowledging (and perhaps acting on that knowledge) his existence rather than eating a gluten-containing wafer. But then again, the mainstream may call me a heretic. *shrugs* You’ve provided some great information for the Paleo-Catholics though Lacy, awesome!

  12. Lawrence Louis says


    Thank you so much for addressing my question about the interview Dr.Oz conducted with Gary Taubes. I was so flattered that you moved my question up to the top of the list. I hope you will forgive me for referring to you as Scott. I am a big fan of yours and I feel so bad for having switched your name with Scott. I was writing to a friend on another blog, and I must have had his name on my mind when I was typing out my question to you. You and Greg did a superb response. Thanks again ROBB (see I got it right this time)!


    Lawrence Louis

  13. Wayne says

    Good podcast. Looking forward to hearing Kurt Harris, should ruffle some feathers. :)

    How about having Stephan Guyenet someday?

  14. Tane says

    Dear Robb and New Andy,
    I know that you guys are American, live in America and that the majority of the podcast listeners are also American (i.e. 4 out of the 6) but for those of us who are not from the USA or living there, could you perhaps give a quick bit of guidance about who the individuals concerned are at the beginning of answers. As I was glued to the podcast and did not want to interrupt the magic, I didn’t look up Dr. Oz until afterwards. Therefore, I spent the entirety of the answer to Question 1 thinking that Dr. Oz was the big, bald dude with the moustache and the Southern accent who does therapy on TV. It turns out that that is actually Dr. Phil.
    Also, now that I have educated myself on US TV Doctors, am I right that the Dr. Oz who is a heart surgeon and expressed concerns about Gary Taubes dietary ideas, is the same chap who “interviews” people who claim to be able to talk to the dead?
    Yours in Jacked Rippedness,

  15. says

    I just did a half-hour interview with Gary Taubes about what really happened behind-the-scenes of his appearance on “The Dr. Oz Show” last week. There’s a lot more to the story than people realize. I’ll share it on my “Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show” ( at the beginning of my podcast on Thursday, March 17, 2011. Check it out and listen to Gary share the full scoop on it!

  16. Cord says

    Please don’t ever make it into an arguing-type show! I can’t stand those, I love your podcast, and I’d hate to have to stop listening.

  17. Keith says

    Dr. Oz interviewed Gary Taubes on his radio program in February.

    Dr. Oz’s attitude is totally different than in the TV interview. Dr. Oz seems supportive in his radio interview and he introduces Taubes by saying that Taubes “argues against conventional dogma.” And then he lets Taubes lay out his argument without contradicting him.

    I imagine that some commercial interests caused Dr. Oz to retreat.

    • says

      I think, as Taubes alludes on his blog, it is “show time!” when the cameras roll and they needed something entertaining. Nothing like White Hats and Black Hats to help people “understand” the topic.

  18. Josh says

    Hey Robb,

    Melatonin works great for me in terms of falling asleep quicker and staying asleep achieving a deeper sleep.
    BUT I find I wake up much more tired in the morning when I take it. Have you ever heard of this with anyone?\Any ideas on how to remedy it?

    I guess an obvious solution would be to take melatonin AND go to sleep an hour earlier but it seems it happens to me on weekends when I can sleep in for 8-9 hours too.

  19. chris says

    Just throwing this out there……
    3 am is considered “Dead Time” by those who follow or believe in “spirits” and by that I dont mean the kind you drink. Waking up between 3 and 330 am usually has to do with coming out of – or going into the astral plane and being scared from it or something with the 3rd eye if I remember correctly. Some people report not waking up but rather being woken up. 3am is kind of the offical time though that “others” can come out and play. This is also kind of relevant to where you sleep.

    I usually take L-Theanine for sleep. This works best to put me out all night without any hang over feelings. 1-4 caps could be taken based on dosage as well.

  20. Jill says

    I have a question similar to #3. I’m 100% Paleo with the exception of a weekly sacrament that includes a small piece of white bread.(If it matters, I’m on day 20 of Whole30 with no plans to stop at day 30 and was 80/20 prior to this.) I have no problems with blood in my urine but am wondering what effect this small exposure is causing, if any? Does it really matter how large or small the exposure is because an exposure is still an exposure? I had the same thought of replacing the bread with something else but decided that with the blessing ceremony involved and then having it passed to 500 people it’s not feasible. I don’t have any noticable symptoms but know that may not mean much, especially since I’m basically still “detoxing”.

    Thank you for all you do and the information provided!

  21. Craig says

    I’ve had the question 2 problem in the past but lately I sleep all through the night. I don’t get home from work until around 11:30 and I’m specifically trying not to fast so I end up eating right before bed. It’s usually a small/mid-sized meal of jerky and coconut oil or rendered fat. I am concerned about blunting GH but I’m sleeping great.

    This is Craig, by the way, of the question 5 protein fasts fame. Thanks for the reply, Robb. I figured your answer might be along these lines but I wasn’t sure if it made a difference abstaining completely from eating as in IF or just modifying intake in some way. Anyway, I’ll keep the drapes in the closet until my health is real solid.

  22. says

    Hi Robb,
    wassup? and better yet wassup in the good Doc Oz pie-hole to poop-hole? maybe this?

    Serum insulin levels and the prevalence of adenomatous and hyperplastic polyps in the proximal colon.

    METHODS: We studied 343 consecutive patients who underwent colonoscopy in our hospital. All medical information, including fasting serum insulin, was obtained at colonoscopy.

    RESULTS: Overall, serum insulin levels were significantly associated with adenoma (OR, 1.5; 95% CI, 1.1-2.0; P = .005) and borderline associated with hyperplastic polyps (OR, 1.3; 95% CI, 1.0-1.7; P = .075). In multinomial logistic regression models, elevated serum insulin levels were significantly associated with proximal-only adenoma (OR, 1.8; 95% CI, 1.2-2.5; P = .002), both-side hyperplastic polyp (OR, 1.7; 95% CI, 1.1-2.5; P = .015), and proximal-only hyperplastic polyp (OR, 1.5; 95% CI, 1.0-2.1; P = .048) and borderline associated with distal-only adenoma (OR, 1.5; 95% CI, 1.0-2.1; P =.059) but not with distal-only hyperplastic polyp.

    CONCLUSIONS: Serum insulin levels directly correlate with the presence of adenoma and hyperplastic polyps in the proximal colon and might also less strongly correlate with the presence of distal adenoma.

  23. Alexa says

    I was glad to hear you cover the issue of the 3am wake-ups as well. How about the added problem of night sweats with the wake-ups???? I’ve tried raising my carb intake to account for any late night hypoglycemic reactions like you mentioned in your answer to no avail…I will be heading to the health food store this week to try out the supplements you mentioned.
    One odd thing I’ve noticed is that if I have a NorCal Margarita before bed (or two or three) no night sweats! I was crossing my fingers for an ethanol deficiency but I’m guessing that’s unlikely…

  24. says

    Regarding question #2 with sleep and waking up at 3am:
    Surprised to not hear anyone talk about 5-HTP. Has anyone experimented with it or have comments on it?

    5-HTP is the metabolic precursor to serotonin and melatonin.
    Your body converts the amino acid tryptophan into 5-HTP and that is converted into serotonin which is then converted into melatonin.

    5-HTP may not be the solution to everyone, but might be something some people want to try if dosing with melatonin provides variable results.

  25. Kim says

    Question: Have been following paleo for the last 3 months. However, colon ulcers started flaring up in 2nd month. Tightened up the diet and started doing it low carb. Now (for the last 2 weeks) ulcers are bleeding, stomach/gut are swollen, and generally optimism is feeling downtrodden. I don’t doubt that eating paleo is healthier for me than another way of eating but what should I do while my system is still so irritated? I did stop taking my meds–don’t know name but basically it was aspirin for the colon. I thought it would be better for the gut flora if there wasn’t anything affecting the community diversity. Wrong?

  26. Christ says

    Here is how I fixed my waking at 2-3 Am every night…

    1-adopt a bi-phasic attitude for sleep and take herbal formula of choice right before laying down(2 hours after dark for me),Lights Out from Dragonherbs works 10X better for me than anything else I’ve tried(and that’s been a basically everything).

    2-cover your clock in the bedroom

    3-take sub-lingual melatonin when you wake in the middle of the night,this is the most beneficial by far for me,taking it at bedtime does approximately jack shit but in the middle of the night it’s awesome

  27. says

    I recently came across y’all’s podcast on itunes and have been listening to it while I work (I’m a decorative painter … so podcasts and music keep me going on a long day). I’ve probably listened to about 20 or so in the past couple days. Yes Robb, holy cats. I just want to say you guys are awesome! Y’all might have already known that though … I’d don’t have any questions other than things I can google myself but I just wanted to tell you I appreciate the honesty, humor, and wealth of information you share.


    And yes, I’m from Texas … “you all” just doesn’t seem right …

      • says

        Just honest. :)

        After listening to some more podcasts today I couldn’t tell if you were joking about the “Caffeine is life and Gluten is Death” T-shirt so I came on to check. Apparently I am ‘that’ gullible, but I’d like to say as a coffee-lover and gluten-misanthrope I would have bought one.

  28. CB says

    Have you ever said that if a woman eats a strict paleo diet while pregnant the chances of the baby getting celiac disease later in life increase? Could you clarify? I am trying to settle a difference of opinion with myself and another individual. I would think that if a woman ate non paleo during pregnancy that would increase the chances of the child getting celiacs. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

    • says

      No…what EXACTLY is the debate. Why don’t you have the other person state their point here so we can be clear about what is being bandied about.

      • CB says


        The “other” person would be my wife who read on the “internet” that by eating a paleo diet and not exposing the unborn child to gluten and other things, would increase the likelihood a severe reaction when the could eat foods containing gluten, etc . The person then said that you spoke of this in one of the podcasts and that there was some scientific evidence to support this idea. I called BS. Thanks again.

        • says

          No, it does not increase the likelihood of the child being more gluten reactive…this is placing gluten in the category as a vitamin for Christ’s sakes! If you want to have a healthier kid, you avoid giving them gluten. Period. Alessio Fassano makes this point clearly that if you avoid giving children under the age of 2 any gluten (or dairy products besides breast milk) that you reduce their likelihood for developing Type 1 diabetes by more than 70%. This is however, scratching the surface in what advantages are provided the kid by not feeding them this stuff.

          BUT this does NOT address the fact that the problems that gluten cause the mom (inflammation with reproductive tissues, hormonal dysregulation, insulin resistance pushing towards gestational diabetes) ARE unhealthy for thee child, in-utero.

  29. Paul Emmons says


    During the podcast Robb makes reference to knowing someone who reversed MS through diet. Do you have further information or details of this. My wife has been recently diagnosed with MS and will find it very helpful.

    Thanks Paul

    • says

      25 YO woman, was diagnosed with MS years before, positive brain scan. Went paleo (autoimmune protocol) and reverssed all signs and symptoms in about a month. subsequent brain scan showed normal mylenation.

      You need the solid autoimmune protocol, vit-d levels in the 60-80 ng range (us values, need to convert that to UK)

        • Paul Emmons says

          Sorry, my wife asked did the person keep to the solid autoimmune protocol after the month, or did they reintroduce other paleo foods back in e.g eggs, nuts.


  30. musajen says

    Ha! Robb, you called it on Good Calories, Bad Calories. My copy IS sitting on the back of “the can” and I read it about 1-2 pages at a time.

  31. Butch White says

    I missed a few episodes of the podcast and I was delighted to hear Greg Everett’s voice (and humor) joining in on the show. Strong work Robb…

  32. Don says

    Hey, here’s a possible guest for your show. Not! He’s a pompous little know-it-all with a Napolean complex. quote: “And Loren Cordain is your most credible source? His stuff is mostly nonsense.”

    like here

    I’m sure Cordain wouldn’t feel stabbed in the back by you featuring and complimenting that guy. You can find him really getting in stride on home turf at hyperlipid, where he acts like an abusive teenager, as well as brags about his made-up lift poundages, all that stuff.

    Oh yeah, his name is Kurt Harris.

    • says

      Well, Loren likes to let the data speak for itself. Has he gotten everything right? No, but it’s certainly not “mainly nonsense”!!!

      Should be an interesting interview.

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