Back with episode 11 – this is the one where Robb does his Paleo Diet counter arguments rant which includes his always enjoyable “Flat Earth Society” comment.
Here is the link to Cordain’s paper on common counter arguments for the Paleo Diet and the link for “The Protein Debate” because that also has some good information on counter arguments.
Download a transcript of Episode 11
Show Topics:
- Paleo nutrition counter arguments
- Cortisol
- Fasting / Hemp Hearts
- Workout intensity suffering / Game day eating
- LDL
- Gary Taubes
- Coconut
- Endurance athlete’s nutrition
- Paleo pregnancy
- Metabolic typing
- Paleo diet vs Paleo diet for Athletes
Show Notes – The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_11
Robb, great podcasts! I recently started taking Natural Calm instead of ZMA. The difference is outstanding! Quick question though, is there and concern of metal poisoning taking a magnesium supplement?
Eric-
No, magnesium, similar to most fruit is pretty self limiting. Take too much and you will have a mad-dash to the bathroom!
Miles,
Can you please put a break down of this podcast in the comments section? It’s very helpful when I want to go back and listen to a specific section. Thanks
Keep up the good work Robb, love the podcasts.
BTW, I checked out the Flat Earth Society website and I keep waiting for the punch-line and there isn’t one, they are dead serious. Not a hint of sarcasm in any of their stuff!!
Jason-
Yep, that is my point and why I just do not devote much time to “convincing” people. You can crush them with data which they simply ignore, they will not try what you suggest to test its veracity…why bother?
Hey Robb,
A question I get from some of my clients when talking about a low-carb paleo diet is about carb loading before an athletic event. My understanding is that the only reason to do this would be to top off muscle glycogen stores, and that doesnt take that many carbs, so basically carb loading isnt necessary or helpful. Am I correct in my thinking? In your opinion, should athletes be “carb loading” prior to events? Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Joey-
Depends on the event. check out that first podcst.
Robb,
Thanks for the shout out to Ross Enamait. I consider you guys the two R’s. He completely changed the way I look at S&C and you are completely changing the way I look at nutrition. I am forever thankful that I have been able to learn from you both and that you have both been as open and accessable as you have been.
For those interested check out the Ross Training site here you will not be dissappointed.
http://rosstraining.com/blog/
I have been posting links to “The Paleolithic Podcast” each week over there on the Nutrition forum to spread help spread the cult of Robb! 🙂
Respectfully,
Steven
Steven-
Thanks for spreading the word. I have not met Ross in person but we have exchanged emails and he is a great guy. Just a BEAST of an athlete and a damn good coach by all appearances. Hell of a roll model who can walk his talk.
@Robb Wolf
1) Keep up the good work.
2) A better answer to the question of whether or not coconuts are “Paleo” is how Kurt Harris MD frames it. Eating Paleo is not about eating specific foods, but about replicating the evolutionary metabolic milieu with the foods we have at hand now.
http://www.paleonu.com/what-is-panu/
“Returning to EM2 is not based on paleolithic food re-enactment. “
Patrik-
Nice! thanks.
Loving your pod casts! Keep up the good work.
Robb,
Came across a great presentation that you may or may not have seen before.
Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [7/2009] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 16717]
Pretty Lengthy, but loaded with great stats and info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
(Also gives a great break down of the reaction of Glucose in the body vs. Fructose.)
Adam-
I have seen that before but it is outstanding. Thanks for the reminder
Robb,
Thank you so much for the unbelievable amount of time you put in to sharing your knowledge with everyone. I get super stoked every time I go to your site and there’s a new post, particulary when it’s a podcast. I’ve listened to them all and although my head spins at times I truly appreciate the information that you share.
My question isn’t particluarly in regards to today’s podcast but since you dicussed coconut a bit again I was wondering your thoughts on the following:
I went gluten free 8 months ago, strict paleo 4 months ago, do CF WOD’s on average 3 times per week that include a heavy strength training component prior to met cons (which i now occassionally skip) and I add an additonal strength workout on my own 1 day per week. Since changing my diet i dropped from 165 to 148 lbs. I briefly got up to 155 lbs by eating TONS of nuts. The problem was I started have skin breakouts. Assuming they were from the nuts I dropped them and my skin improved but my weight dropped again. My goal is to gain some lean muscle mass back. I do everything I can to get my protein intake up, which I’ve done by eating tons of eggs, turkey, chicken, some red meat but I know I need the fat too. I seem to do pretty well with olive oil and avocados and power my Omega-3’s but I’ve been trying to add coconut oil and coconut milk but I think they may be causing some skin reactions for me. I’ve read that fat (particularly saturated fat) can be a problem for folks that suffer from acne and other skin conditions. What’s you opinion/experience on the best types of fats for folks that have skin issues.
Hi Rob and Andy, love your work. My wife wont convert and is constantly giving me a hard time about the risk of bowel cancer with so much meat in my diet. If you decide to do the arguments and rebuttals show, id appreciate it if you could address this issue. PS Im an MD, so would appreciate links to primary research to assess the validity of you arguements independantly.. Thanks. miles.
Hey Miles!
they keep disproving the meat/cancer thing but folks just don’t seem to want to buy it. Are you thinking about references for the content mentioned in each podcast? We usually try to throw out references that are large and easy to access but part of the reason for the podcast was to reach more people while decreasing my workload…the complexity of the questions is actually driving the workload up! I will try to reference more but I feel like a little google-fu can get savy listeners most of what they need for validation.
Hi Robb,
Re LDL, it is also worth noting that fish oil often increases LDL (but not the small dense type)
http://www.healthcentral.com/cholesterol/c/7986/16181/fish-oil-raise
Also re pregnancy – Vitamin D too is really important, especially now it’s winter.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/pregnancy-and-gestational-vitamin-d-deficiency.shtml
Thanks for another ton of great info in your podcast
Julianne
Julianne-
thanks girl! I usually do remind folks that fish oil can raise LDL. Great article, I will add that to the FAQ.
Hiya, Robb,
Two questions for consideration:
1) I hate yams. I hate sweet potatoes. Just can’t stand ’em. I know, I’m weird or something. LOL. For purposes of a post-workout meal, is there anything reasonably portable I can substitute? Fruit is highly portable, but apparently not real optimal. I’m think something I can easily take with me and eat after working out, especially if I won’t be home or something fairly soon after working out.
2) I’m a competitive pistol shooter, and I end up spending quite a bit of time on the range away from a fridge, or (at big competitions) even easy access to my vehicle (and therefore cooler). Typical competition days involve getting to the range by 0800 and being there through 1700 or later in whatever the outdoor weather conditions are like at the time, and are composed of long periods of standing/walking/bending/light lifting, interspersed with several (4-10) short periods of high mental focus, high speed sprint type efforts. If food is available onsite, it’s crap (hamburgers, hotdogs, chips, etc).
I’ve been experimenting with eating schemes using things like jerky and nuts (primarily almonds, so far) along with some kind of fruit (usually apples). I usually graze all day long, rather than eat formal “meals” – this seems to keep my energy level up and more consistent without getting “full” or something like that. In the past, I’ve also gnawed on a Builder Bar here and there, but have gone Paleo since my last big match, and am planning on leaving those out moving forward.
I’m interested in any thoughts you might have on what might work better on days I can’t easily get to a cooler? Am I hurting myself with the fruit, or could I (should I?) just leave it out altogether? Any obvious options I’ve overlooked? I feel like I eat a ton of food on match days, though I’ve never actually tried to measure it. I’m kind of assuming that an occasional day like that isn’t going to be detrimental overall, but … ??? I suspect I just asked a bunch of nebulous stuff, unfortunately… LOL…
Thanks for your help, and for all the info on your site and in the podcasts!
Dave
RE the blood type diet – my theory is that is works by default.
I have a couple of friends who swear by it, when I asked them more about what how it made a difference, one said as she was an ‘O’, grains especially wheat should be cut out. So she cut them out and her gut issues disapeared, adult acne disappeared – she was in fact gluten intolerant but hadn’t known that it was causing her problems. Her husband an “A” cut out dairy as it is a no-no for “A’s” and his eczema disappeared.
Since many people are intolerant to dairy and grains the Blood type diet would impact many people just by cutting out these foods. So the blood type diet gets a lot of kudos for good results that happen when neolithic foods are cut out, but are instead being assigned to a flawed theory in my view.
On the other hand it tells blood type A’s to eat grains, I’ve talked to a few “A” types and am one myself, and grains just don’t work at all for me or them. So not everyone gets results from following the blood type theory, but you dont get to hear about results that don’t work.
Julianne
Blood type mad some interesting points about lectins and disease…and then became akin to palmistry for me. Apply the O type to everyone and you are running.
Jason,
Just listened to most of it, so I figured I’d help out. Here are the rough breakdowns:
Paleo nutrition counter arguments 0.00-14:40
Cortisol 14:41-23:30
Fasting / Hemp Hearts 23:31-29:16
Workout intensity suffering / Game day eating 29:17-39:32
LDL 39:33-46:21
Gary Taubes 46:22-51:59
Coconut 52:00-56:35
Endurance athlete’s nutrition 56:36-1:06:14
Paleo pregnancy 1:06:15-1:08:59
Metabolic typing 1:09-1:11:45
Paleo diet vs Paleo diet for Athletes 1:11:46-End
Hi Robb, this is the first paleolithic episode I’ve listened to and I really like it. Especially since one of my friend’s is a Chico State nutrition grad student and I keep trying to convince her of paleo’s superiority. The host’s mic sounds perfect, but yours has a big echo effect. Is that just how it is? or is it possible to reduce that problem in the future?
Brandon-
We will get that sound dialed in better. We have been running VERY low tech. Good luck with your friend. I am hated on a first name basis in the CSU nutrition department. One of the professors found a post I made criticizing the department for a lack of scientific basic (paleo). She shot me an email, posted on the blog taunting me about taking cheap shots at the department. I responded to here, made my case and then offered to sponsor both an undergraduate and a graduate student doing research related to nutrition and evolutionary biology. The response? She apparently shipped the email around the department with the subject line “Personal Attack”. Once I an finished with the book I’m sittign down with the Dean of Natural Sciences and the university professor to talk about this professor effectively blocking scholarship opportunities because of personal bias.
Hi Rob,
I’ve listened to you use the phrase “look, feel and perform” with regard to judging the impact of diet changes. I’m struggling with how you can see a significant enough change in these characteristic unless you are making a radical change from a deficient or allergic reaction to a healthy diet.
Once you’ve tossed out the heavy hitters, processed sugars and simple carbs, got the your macros generally worked out, and taken your basic multivitamin, fish oil, vit c,d,e how do you differentiate whether a dietary change is an improvement?
Rob, I have been trying grass fed beef lately and can’t quite get used to the taste, dryness or price. Do you still need grass fed meat if you take a bunch of fish oil to off set the omega 6 imbalance?
kevin
Kevin-
No, you are good to go with conventional meat and fish oil.
A shout out for the podcasts, love them. I am looking forward to the first Paleolithic Solutions Seminar. Do you have any recommended reading leading up to Jan. 31st? I’ve read your reading material for the old CFNC and all the podcasts.
I’ve turned my fiance on to the NOW Super Enzymes, Mag, Vitamin D-3, Fish Oil. She is 5’6″, 125lbs, pilates type workouts, 20% BF subclinical celiac but outward signs of gluten intolerance. Previously would “cheat” with gluten products and was unrestrictive on other grains and legumes. 1 week ago started strict paleo with the supplements. My question is, How long should one take Super Enzymes for? Should she ween off of them after a period of time?
Thanks for all of your work.
Erik-
Might benefit from them for a very long time…months, possibly years. Just need to cycle on and off to know for sure. With the betaine HCL one will get a “warm” feeling in the stomach when you start producing more of your own HCL…this is a signe to dial down the dosage. Once you feel this from one cap, you are done.
Hey Robb,
You talked about lack of hunger last week on your podcast. I seem to have the opposite situation. I find that during periods when my diet is off and I put on a few pounds, like recently over the holidays, I find that I have no hunger whatsoever and pretty much have to force myself to eat anything. Once I get my food dialed in again and get back to where I was before, I find that I am constantly starving. I weigh about 165 and eat about 2500 calories or so a day consisting of mostly meat, veggies, and fat, with 1-2 pieces of fruit a day. My weight stays steady and my performance is pretty good, but is this hunger signaling that I should be eating more calories each day?
Thanks much for your great info. Let me return a bit to you:
d-?-Hydroxybutyrate protects neurons in models of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease
http://www.pnas.org/content/97/10/5440
Get with Dutch and come to Fort Worth for a workshop
Cheers,
Ronin
Ronin-
I dig it!
Hey, Robb. Really enjoying and learning from the site and webcast – keep up the good work.
3 things:
1. What are your thoughts on krill versus fish oil? I now take krill because it smells less, no burps, and I can take a lot less for the same impact.
2. You often say things like “lean out” – what do you define as “lean”?
3. Suggest you consider putting up a paypal donation button – I for one would be very happy to pay for the information and entertainment you provide. The guy over at nephropal has just done this in a classy and sensible way. Nothing wrong will bringing in some extra cash, right?
Hey Robb,
Really enjoying the podcast. Thought I’d put my hand up to the proposed cast on paleo nutrition counter arguments. I’m copping a pile of shit from my carb loving friends over here and I need to brush up my arguments! So I’d love for you and Andy to do that. It’s funny though the same people who look at me funny for saying I don’t eat grains are the same ones who have been saying “hey man you’re looking fit”… curious. Anyways keep it up bro.
Robb, Jason,
In the end, you simply can’t change someone’s religion for them. In most cases, I figure, why try? It’s just energy you’re dumping into a black hole rather than something useful… 🙂 (and, in basically any situation, beliefs like those of the FES start to resemble religion, so…)
Hey Rob! Great podcast as usual, oh and thanks for the “Humboldt Gold” tip! 🙂
@Dave H. Thanks for the break down, I appreciate the work.
@ Robb: I’m still having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that people actually believe the earth is flat, but, I shouldn’t I teach high school kids and they will believe just about anything!
Keep up the good work, I’m a proud member of this cult and I can’t wait until you take over the world. Flat or otherwise.
Hey Robb,
I sent you an email last week but I might have left a couple things out. So i´ll simplify and add at the same time. I´m in a situation where I have practically no time, and really only time for breakfast and lunch. Furthermore, I don´t have access to the best carbodohydrate selection (I´m in the Dominican Republic). So the question is it alright to do intermittent fasting every day, as in eating only breakfast and lunch but getting all my zone blocks in? The other is, the one meal that I have after working out, should I not have my fat blocks there and up the carb blocks or should I just do everything even? Any ideas that you have on what I should do would be great. Thanks!
Loving this stuff. Keep up the good work. I am thoroughly drinking the Paleo kool-aid!
Question: I have a two year old daughter and my wife and I are pretty much paleo with her per Cordain’s recommendations in his FAQ section (for sure gluten free). How much DHA for her. Also, my wife is having our second child in a month, and I understand she should also be on DHA instead of regular fish oil. How much for her with the whole breast feeding thing?
Robb, I have been CF’ing and power/oly lifting for 2+ years. I have been eating paleo for 1 year. I have had acid reflux since i was a kid and still do, I imagine this is a pretty good indicator than mine is a net acid base. It runs in my family, all my brothers and sisters have it, my dad did too. Ballpark would be 140g of protein, 140g of fat, and 50g carb (mostly green stuff). I weigh 160 with a bf% of around 7% Are there any supplements you recommend to deal with this, or is it something that can be done with diet alone?
Could you tell me the relationship, if any, between a net alkalinic base and performance/recovery?
I have been feeling like shit for some time now and want to be over this.
Thomas-
Have you ever gone 100% grain/dairy free? This is not an acid base issue IMO, but hyperinsulinism possibly mixed with grain intolerance. It blocks CCK production and all hell breaks lose.
Hey there,
My husband found lasting results regarding his acid reflux by taking daily doses of apple cider vinegar (diluted with water).
What’s up with hemp protein?
Smoke it, don’t eat it!
Rob, really like the podcast, mainly would like to hear more about the Phosphatidylserine(PS) subject
Does anyone have a picture of a paleo pyramid they could send me?
Bill:
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=chrome&q=paleo%20food%20pyramid&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
See where Brock Lesnar said his Diverticulitis was from an all protein diet ?
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/champ+Brock+Lesnar+says+Canadian+health+care+like+Third+World+country/2464293/story.html
Kevin-
First he says “all meat” then it’s “meat and potatoes”. I have no doubt brock eats a ton of protein, but we have seen diverticulitis resolve quite well with a paleo approach.
Hey Robb,
I’m a little behind in your podcasts but I came across the one where you’re talking about too much Vit E wrt antioxidants and fish oil. The fish oil I’m taking has 400mg EPA/200mg DHA, leaving 400mg of whatever else in there, among others, natural tocopherols ( I believe this is VIT E). They don’t state how much though (no idea if it’s 30IU VITE, more). I think part of that 400mg is glycerin, gelatin, etc. Should I not get too worried here? I’m knocking back about 3 capsules per meal…
thanks in advance,
Roelant
Roelant-
No worries there. The amount of vit-e is to keep the fish oil from oxidizing.
@ Dave Re, 3.12pm.
Dave, the thing you seem to be missing is meat. Meat doesn’t go bad that quickly. I know in the modern world peoplle get all jittery about meat that’s been out of the fridge for any time at all, but it just doesn’t. I grew up on a farm, and we had a meat safe for meat. That’s not a refrigerated meat safe – just a wooden box in a place that is permanently shady and well ventilated, with very fine mesh small enough to keep flies out. My grandparents didn’t have a refrigerator until the mid fifties. They were sheep and cattle farmers and ate meat twice or thrice a day, so would keep a whole slaughtered beast hanging up in a cool killing shed until they had finished eating it.
Nowadays, I cook extra meat for dinner each night, refrigerate it overnight, pull it out of the fridge at 7am in the morning, put it in my bag, and eat it at meal times throughout the day. Still fresh and delicious at 5pm. Rare roast beef and everything. Chicken is great, so long as it was properly cooked in the first instance. I’ve been doing this for years, and haven’t died of botulism or salmonella yet. Not even in hint of food poisoning.
Regards,
Anthony White
Hey Robb!
Thanks for another fantastic podcast! Quick, off-topic question: can you gain fat if you eat more than your body weight in protein? I weight 125, but when I recently put all my foods into fitday, I saw that I am eating between 150 and 170g per day. I have recently gained body fat…could this be a culprit?
Thanks,
L.A.
LA-
tough to tell. Need a little more info.
Hey Robb,
Love your site man, thanks for all the time and work. Hopefully I can someday find a way to help or contribute in some way- for now I’ll just try to help other people to the best of my ability using what I learn from you. The second question this pod cast really caught my attention and promted this question.
Question: I have been following an eating model after Mat Lalonde’s for over a month now and really enjoy eating the three basic meals a day on low carb. I found when I eat real low carb I do not have the mid afternoon crash, and I have dropped some body fat down to around 9 or 10%. I train BJJ 3 or 4 times a week and CFSB 2 or 3 times a week mixed in with some daily yoga. I have been paleo for about a year now. I noticed recently my recovery really feels slow and I am staying sorer longer. Typical day looks like this:
(Today)
6:30AM: 5 whole eggs, 3 pieces of thick sliced bacon, half a can of chilled light Thai coconut milk, Vit D, Fish Oil
11:30: 3 small chicken breasts (the size of my palm), 1 red bell pepper, 3 pieces 100% cocoa, Fish Oil
5:00: 3 salmon filets, red cabbage cooked in Olive Oil, and some steamed broccoli. Fish Oil.
6:00- 8:00 Jits
Jits classes are intense, minimum 45 min. rolling. Anyway I am thinking of keeping everything the same and adding a Post workout shake after Jits. I was thinking, and tried it tonight, was 1 scoop BCAAs/Whey (20g protein and 90 cal), 1 cup frozen spinach, ¼ can lite coconut milk, scoop 100 cocoa powder, and generous amount of cinnamon. So total cal looks like 250ish.
Will this be adequate enough for recovery without adding body fat? I like Yams, but I have been doing so well on low carb that it seems wrong to plow down a yam at 8:30 right before bed. I have a high carb day (aim for 200) every Saturday after a long run or endurance WOD (Murph or the like).
Goals are to maintain, or maybe loose, more BF and have proper recovery for Jits and any str gains I can get.
Thanks!
Eric-
If you are feeling lethargic, add some carbs PWO. Especially as you are already adapted to LC, but seem to be increasing the intensity of your training. At some point you also need to look at your s&c…it needs to augment your jits, not take away form it.
Forgot stats,
25 y/o male
5’11” 180 pounds
CFT- 800
Fran – 4:17
Murph – 39 flat
10k – 42:08
13.1 m – 1:51:00
Hi guys!! I appreciate the podcasts in so many ways!! Thank you.
I wanted to post a comment because I thought of both of you all day today. I have been addicted to Crossfit for a little over a year now and am seeing some amazing things. I recently decided I needed to adjust my eating “lifestyle” to be more healthy because diabetes is is present in my family on all sides. I also wanted to lose some weight. So I have been eating paleo for about a week now.
The reason I am writing this is because I was cursing the both of you all day. I am a wildland firefighter. I spent 10 hours hiking around the mountains as part of a prescribed fire. I felt weak and it was a struggle all day to keep my feet moving.
Thank goodness I have been listening to your podcasts and I knew this is part of the process and it is going to be hell for a couple of weeks. As I cursed the caveman diet I also gave thanks that you have been sharing your knowledge so I can understand why my body is a piece of crap right now heh heh Keep up the good work!
Persephone-
The transition can be rough. Get in more fruit and paleo carbs if you want to hang with that. A stressful work environment may not be the best time to change things!!
Hi there Robb,
I was referred to your website by a fellow crossfit member, and I really enjoy it (especially the podcasts!).
You have discussed post workout nutrition in great detail, and I have learnt a lot from you- since I’m trying to get lean I now avoid the post workout carb up.
I wanted to know your opinion on pre-workout nutrition. I usually do crossfit at 8am and for a while I was having a whey shake with 1/2 banana and 1 tablespoon amond butter, but I know bananas aren’t great for losing fat. Since it’s so early I found this meal convenient, but I’m trying to maximize my fat loss. What do you suggest?
Porsha-
Pre-wod nutrition is very subjective…we have had a ton of questions on this so we will hit it in an upcoming podcast.
@Adam
I took some notes from “Sugar: The Bitter Truth”. They are on my blog
http://downanddirtypaleo.blogspot.com/2009/09/review-sugar-bitter-truth.html
Review – “Sugar: The Bitter Truth ”
I have some notes and a summary from “Sugar: The Bitter Truth” lecture presented by Robert H. Lustig, M.D.,UCSF. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM)
Its about a 1.5 hour long video but really informative.
1) Fructose (Sucrose vs. High Fructose Corn Syrup) consumption has increased in the past 30 years, coinciding with the obesity epidemic.
2) A calorie is not a calorie, and fructose is not glucose.
3) You are NOT what you eat; you are what you DO with what you eat.
4) Hepatic fructose metabolism leads to all the manifestations of the Metabolic Syndrome:
– Hypertension (Through Uric Acid pathway)
– de novo lipogenesis, dyslipidemia, and hepatic steatosis (Through DNL Pathway)
– Inflammation
– Hepatic insulin resistance
– Obesity (Through VLDL transport to Adipose tissue)
– CNS leptin resistance, promoting continuous consumption (Brain is tricked into thinking it is starving and you need more fuel)
5) Fructose ingestion interferes with obesity intervention (The more soft drinks, the less diet and exercise will “work”)
6) Fructose is a chronic hepa-toxin (“alcohol without the buzz”) but the FDA can’t and won’t regulate it. Its up to “Us” to regulate it.
An interesting side note dealt with infant formula. Infant Formula (Similac) contains 43.2% Corn Syrup Solids and 10.3% sugar(sucrose), essentially a “Baby Milkshake”. A comparison would be to Coca Cola at 10.5% sucrose. Literature exists linking the earlier a child is exposed to sugar, the more they will crave it later on in life. Also, there is new literature showing the more sugar a pregnant woman ingests, the more that gets across the placenta causing developmental programming changing the unborn child’s adiposity.
Also, a comparison made again about Soda v. Beer, there is no difference between the amount of calories that reach the liver. Beer Belly = Soda Belly. Would you give your child a beer? Most likely not, but would you have the same resistance to giving them a soda, most likely not. But Soda is Alcohol without the (drunk) buzz.
– Fructose is a Carb
– Fructose is metabolized like Fat (low fat diets aren’t really low fat because the fructose/sucrose doubles as fat. Essentially Low Fat diets ARE ACTUALLY High Fat diets)
– Fructose is a TOXIN
Robb –
I don’t know if you saw this, but this is a story out of Minneapolis. A boy’s epileptic seizures were CURED by changing his diet to a Ketogenic diet. The Dr at the Mayo clinic recommended it and it worked. From more then 100 seizures a day to ZERO.
The main worry from the mom was feeding all the fat to her child. Worried that his cholesterol would skyrocket. It didn’t. Go figure.
What confused me was that the Dr recommend the change to the Ketogenic for kids that don’t respond to medications. Why wouldn’t you prescribe medications for kids where changing their diet doesn’t help? Seems backwards to me.
Anyway – good story.
http://wcco.com/health/high.fat.diet.2.1436243.html
Steve-
Nice find. Major universities have been studying and implementing a ketogenic diet in kids for almost 100 years:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/ketodiet/
This is why I almost have an aneurysm when some MD or RD, who forgot most of their biochem, tells me or one of our clients hat a ketogenic diet is dangerous. A KD is safer and works better than ANY of the anti-epileptic meds available, yet it is relegated to freak show status.
Hey Robb,
Great site, great show. Love it. I have a quick question regarding weight loss.
I’m doing PaNu ala PaleoNu.com for five months now. I’ve lost 19kg, but since about 1 month I’m plateauing around 95kg with 29% bf. I still eat bacon and eggs for breakfast, meat or fish with a few vegetables for dinner, and maybe 1-2 bars of 70% chocolate a week. I take fish oil. Lots of Kerrygold grass fed butter and cream. I don’t really train, just the occasional pull-up (can do 13 with kip). What could be the reason for my weight plateau? Is dark chocolate 1-2x per week too much? I don’t think the total calories are too much, when I measure it’s usually between 2000kcal and 2500kcal. Carbs usually below 50.
Any help appreciated. Keep spreading the word. I try to spread it too 🙂
Bleicke-
I would just try upping your activity a bit. I think you will control your hunger with the low carb food, a little more activity should kick things over.
Robb and Andy,
Thanks for sharing the invaluable knowledge.
I’m trying to wrap my mind around the ‘carbs and protein pwo’ but I’m having trouble thinking of how I might omit the fat. Obviously as Andy has pointed out most protein sources have fat in them anyway, plus unless you straight boil or steam your animal flesh (which don’t produce the optimal results re: taste) you need some source of fat to get your protein source into a cooked form (assuming that you do in fact want to eat it cooked). How do you guys generally negotiate this conundrum?
Conrad-
Just don;t add MORE fat.
Hi Robb –
I’ve subscribed to an email newsletter put out by Dr. Gabe Mirkin for years. Dr. Mirkin is an MD and endurance athlete (a competitive 71 year-old bicyclist). He writes a lot about sports nutrition, and I’ve found that his advice generally runs about 180 degrees from yours. Below is a snippet from today’s email where he cites a new study that shows that a high-carb low-fat diet provides better muscle growth than a low-carb high-fat diet. I’d love to hear your take.
George
Dr. Gabe Mirkin’s Fitness and Health E-Zine
January 24, 2010
Obesity and High-Fat Diet May Both Prevent Muscle Growth
A study from the University of California, Davis shows
that a high-fat diet prevents exercising mice from enlarging their
muscles (Journal of Physiology, December 2010). The mice
received either a low fat, high carbohydrate diet or a high fat,
low carbohydrate diet for 14 weeks. Each group was divided into
those who performed progressive resistance exercises with their
plantaris muscles or those that did not do this exercise.
Those who exercised on the low fat, high-carbohydrate diet had
substantially larger muscles than those who exercised on the
high-fat diet. Chemical analysis of their muscles showed that the
high fat diet group had lower levels of polysomes (Akt and S6K1)
necessary for making protein.
If this study can be applied to humans, it will mean that
not only does a high-saturated-fat diet make you fatter, it also
keeps you from enlarging your muscles. We know that both full fat
cells and eating large amounts of saturated fats (the dominant fat
in meat) turns on your immunity to cause inflammation that can
prevent the body from making protein necessary for enlarging
muscles. (Journal of Nutrition, January 2009). A high saturated-fat
diet also blocks insulin receptors and thus prevents your body from
responding to insulin, which is necessary for muscles to heal from
intense workouts. Insulin drives amino acids, the protein building
blocks, into muscles to help them heal faster. Anything that blocks
muscles’ ability to respond to insulin will decrease amino acid
entry into muscles and thus delay healing so you can’t recover as
fast for your next workout. Further journal references and
recommendations can be found at
http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/muscle_growth.html
Interesting stuff. I’m wary of mice studies but it’s interesting. In some ways I have no doubt that a higher carb diet means more muscle mass, but so does dairy, and both for similar reasons: increased growth factors. I need to read the specifics as “high carb an low carb” can be seriously fracked up when people implement them.
regarding Carlson fish oil…
Is there a benefit to taking the Carlson “Super Omega 3” fish oil vs “Norwegian Salmon” oil. They’re both 1000mg capsules, with 300epa-200dha in Regular and 360epa-250dha in Salmon. The salmon contains MORE epa-dha overall, but is significantly cheaper. Anyone know why? Have experience?
Brett-
No idea.
Robb,
Thanks for being such a great resource. I’ve been skeptical about the Paleo Diet for a while, but I’ve been finding that your and other’s recommendations produce real results especially in regard to improving digestion.
My question? I’d like to put the strict Paleo Diet on trial by doing it for 60 days and doing some before and after tests. Recently I’ve had my neurotransmitters tested, so I think I’ll include that. I’m also interested to know how the diet affects my alkalinity. Would a saliva test be appropriate for this measure? I’m also going to measure body weight, strength, etc. Last bit – would a 60 day trial be long enough to measure a hormonal response if I were to do that? Any suggestions about how to measure the affects of the diet would be appreciated.
I do realize that I’d be one lonely data point in a sea of variables, but that’s how I roll…
TIA+
Tad-
I need to think on this a bit…I like where you are going. I do not think a saliva test will give us an accurate picture of pH. We cna have different metabolic shifts to accommodate either acidosis or alkalosis so I think that piece needs to be a little more comprehensive. Honestly, and I love data, but I’d really just hang things on simple blood work and how you look, feel and perform. You would burn literally thousands of dollars on tests just to confirm what you already know, but that’s all up to you. I’ll think about this more, might have to be a podcast.
Did you notice crossfit nutrition doesn’t exist on .com anymore? How important were you to that program, huh?
Ryan-
I hear they will be discussing a new gig at Fillfest. At this point I could see HQ subsidizing the event and giving away slots to save face. Oh, well.
ALso, that Natural Calm seems to list off all my symptoms?? amazing, cant wait to give it a try
Looking forward to this supplement video!
Hi Robb-
I think I am one behind on podcasts but I wanted to thank you so much for your discussion on carrots (that they are not evil:). I dropped fruit just wanted to let your readers know that what REALLY helped was having baby carrots to munch on.
Hey Robb– Just got blood test results back and wanted to see if you think I should worry about anything on a few points:
1) T3, free = 264 pg/dL (‘normal’ range 230-420) ** how can I get that higher in the range – I’ve been taking 150mcg Iodine daily for about 3 months
2) TSH = 1.54 mIU/L (‘normal’ range 0.40 – 4.50)
3) BU/Creatinine = 26.4 (‘normal’ is 6-22) ** so this was flagged as High, although BUN individually was 19 MG/DL (7-25 normal) and Creatinine was 0.72 mg/dL (0.58-1.06 normal)
thx in advance,
Kari
Alicia-
Yea, I would lose the race to the privy if I took hat much!
Thanks Rob, you’re awesome!
I saw the interview with Lesnar, I was just screaming “GLUTEN!” at the tv. Everyone in my house thought i’d gone crazy! Besides that, I am loving the natural calm, I upped it to 2tsp one night and immediately after drinking it I literally walk/half-ran to the washroom. I’m kind of guessing this is a good sign? My gut is absorbing nutrients well? Plus having to take less means I save some money! Sweet!
Robb,
I might be going crazy, but is it possible for a ketogenic diet to make you feel nauseous? I have been trying to lean out, so I read your posts about carbs for leaning out and listened to your podcasts, but I am afraid I have done something a bit wrong. I am about a 155-160lb female and for the past 10 days I have averaged about 120 grams of protein, 59 grams of carbs, 143 grams of fat and 2098 calories. I have cut out nuts and seeds completely and am getting my fats from coconut oil, avacados, olive oil, coconut milk, bacon and coconut meat. I also cut out fruit (except the coconut) and am getting all my carbs from veggies (mostly green veggies and bell peppers). I have started incorporating 1/4 cup of coconut milk with 5 grams of the Isoflex whey protein post WOD. I was prepared to feel a bit sluggish in my workouts and that has definately been the case, but I wasn’t prepared for this incredible sick feeling I’ve had the past 2 days. It seems worse after eating veggies. Do you think this could be connected, am I going crazy or have I just gone terribly wrong in my approach to leaning out? I would be very grateful for any insight you could give! Thanks!
Tristy-
Kinda stumped on that…will think about it and hit it in a podcast.
Nathan,
Amen. Robb likes to make fun of the fact that I think fructose is evil but the evidence is there support my fear of the stuff.
Mat-
I just like having someone who is more hardcore than me on this stuff!!
Dave Re,
I would recommend becoming fat adapted, then getting familiar with intermittent fasting. On the weekends, I eat a breakfast that consists of one pound of sausage with four duck eggs (these are larger than chicken eggs). The meal last about 12 hours. If you could do something similar, you could get away with bringing very little with you. Maybe a paleo kit as a snack and some coconut water for hydration and electrolytes and you would be set.
Love the podcast, but would love it if you could tweak the audio in the future. Not sure where Robb was speaking, but the reverb was a bit much at times!
@ Anthony White – Thanks for the thoughts on meat. I hadn’t considered bringing along perishable protein sources, in part for exactly the spoilage reason. Another reason is that while cooking stuff up ahead and bringing it with me will work for matches within driving distance, it’s going to be tough for matches I fly to. But with some thought, I can probably work that out, too (for instance, maybe a pre-cooked chicken from the grocery store or something).
Fat sources aren’t a problem, of course. Really, though, my concerns around a cooler were about smarter carbs. Keeping a salad edible in 100 degree weather seems kind of tough without a cooler. They’re also relatively bulky, and the shooting bag has relatively limited room in it (though I can find solutions for needing more space, too).
I haven’t tried it, yet, but I presume going without carbs all day long isn’t a hot idea – but after all this exposure re: fructose, I’m now questioning fruit as a wise choice for carbs. And I’m not sure where to look for a good “no cooler required” solution. Probably, I’m not being creative enough or something…
I’ve been guilty of over thinking things, too… LOL…
Robb and Mat,
I’m trying to get the will power to be that hardcore. I’m hoping now that I started a blog more devoted to Paleo than my WODs I will be held accountable. That is if anybody actually reads it.
I’ll be posting some recipes and whatnot on there shortly. I got my wife on board so that makes it infinitely easier now.
BTW, I posted a Paleo Primer to send to friends and family on tha basic questions of Paleo. Its aim was kind of take to whole “checkout Robbwolf.com, etc.” and then having no one actually follow up on it. Trying to hold some of my families hands on this whole crazy “eat meat, veggies and fat” deal. You would think that I’m telling them to jump of the Golden Gate Bridge. http://downanddirtypaleo.blogspot.com/2010/01/have-you-ever-eaten-paleo.html
Thanks for the podcast ,love it learning alot
keep it coming
I wrote this to you in email a little while ago, but I know you are probably crazy backed up with questions, so I thought this might be faster. I started paleo 3-4 months ago (the switch meant no more weigh and measure, cut out oatmeal and the little bit of dairy). I feel great, am lifting a LOT more, but have gained about 5% bodyfat (from 16-17% to 21-22% now). I eat lots of protein, veggies, 1 piece of fruit per day, good fats, fish oil, vitamin d. I cut nuts, thinking that would help, but still fat gain. Ran my food intake through fitday and looks like I am typically eating 160+g protein, 80-90g fat, 35-50g carb. I own a small mma school, so I box and do jits 2-3x per week, metabolic conditioning 2x, heavy weightlifting 1x and walk a lot. Get plenty of sleep, but definitely having stress issues with school. Any ideas about a weight gain?
Age: 25
Height: 5’4
Weight: currently 133, was 125.
Thanks!
L.A.
LA
How was the BF checked?
I have an Omron, which I know is not too reliable, but I would always check under the same conditions (first thing in the morning, no alcohol night before, no swimming day before, etc). The main reason I know my body fat is up is because my visible four-pack disappeared and my clothes feel tighter. My arms are also less defined. I don’t care about the actual percentage, my concern is the fat gain.
I had my doctor run thyroid tests, which came out ‘normal.’ I asked them to run a cortisol test and they didn’t, but if you think it is worth it I can request one again.
Thank you so much Robb.
LA-
How is performance overall?
Thanks Robb! I have read a couple things online that say that nausea can occur on a ketogenic diet, but I can’t find anything that says why or how long it will last. I appreciate you giving it some thought!
@ Mathieu Lalonde
I am working on fat adaptation 🙂 The IF solution would definitely solve a lot of my questions. That will be another one to experiment with. The only wrinkles I’ll have there is figuring out how to come up with a breakfast of that size when I’m not travelling via car.
One question – what kind of activities are you doing on the weekend when you’re eating like that?
When would you suggest hitting the snack? Just if I start to feel hungry or something? Obviously, a paleo kit will keep in the heat (it’s very similar to my current solution, so…), and it doesn’t take up much space in the bag at all.
Thanks!
My metabolic conditioning sessions are pretty good; we recently shortened those types of workouts so that we are not having 25 minute sessions. My weightlifting is awesome, but my boxing and jits have definitely gone down. My cardio sucks and I am tired a lot. The last couple of weeks, I sleep fine 4-5 nights (at least 9 hours), but on those really long school/gym days, I can’t seem to fall asleep.
Ahhhhha! Dial back your met-cons, focus on your sport. Do this to the degree it takes to sleep normally. If sleep starts going sideways we have some cortisol issues brewing. S&C needs to AUGMENT training, not take away from it! Get that squared away and you should start leaning out.
Yeah I agree with Robb. Something tells me Brock’s diet wasn’t just all meat.
Hey Robb, what do you think about Stevia, as a food additive, a sweetener, or even as an additive to water to purify it?
Hey Robb,
I’ve been having to do PT every morning for the fire academy 5 days/week for about an hour and a half. Lots of slow jogging (yuk), pushups, pullups, band work, situps, etc all for higher reps (25-100). I’ve been doing 2 strength workouts on my own at night usually doing one or two lifts/session. Eating paleo with one cheat meal/week (sometimes) and getting 8-8.5 hours sleep/night.
My questions are 1) should I drop the metcons after the strength sessions (they are short, like 10-12 minutes) and 2) in your opinion is this a case where I should maybe play with some sweet potatoes/yams post workout even if the goal is to lean out a bit? I’ve just been hitting about 15 g bcaa and 10 g glutamine and 5 g creatine post workout but I feel like I’m depleting my glycogen stores pretty good with the high rep work.
Hey Robb, thanks for answering my question re Metabolic Typing. I was skeptical about it but I have to admit the idea sounded fairly logical that we are all unique from a metabolic standpoint due to our background, genetics etc. Your answer definitely put things into perspective and I don’t think I will waste my time with it since i’m listed as a carb type and as a result am told I need to eat a diet full of grains and hardly any red meat. I think the Paleo diet/way of living is much more logical so I thankyou for your response. Keep up the good work.
Robb’s mentioned NOW Super Enzymes a few times with very specific instructions for use. I’ve just begun taking them, following his instructions of course, but I’m wondering, is this the kind of thing that is taken constantly (like vit D etc..)? Or, is this the kind of thing that you take short term to regulate an imbalance? And if so what does he suggest for the taper off process? Thanks in advance!
Sorry, I think I just found the answer on another post. I swear I looked everywhere before I posted, but as soon as it went up the very next thing I read discussed it. Sorry again.
Thanks for the knowledge Robb. Cholesterol question. Can we only measure cholesterol effectively with the small particle counts or does a standard blood test have some weight? I heard you say numbers can go up or down with paleo but is their general numbers we should be concerned with? Also most people who go paleo seem to be trying to increase general fitness and health but will this approach work for someone who does little to no exercise? Thanks ahead of time.
Robb,
Could you comment on biosignature? How is that different then metabolic typing from a psuedoscience point of view? It has been awhile since you attended the biosignature seminar, how has it impacted your clinical practice? Thanks.
Pat
Pat-
In short I’d have to say the main difference is that biosig “works”. I’ll flesh this out more in a podcast.
Hey Robb.
A. Thanks for being awesome.
B. Talk to me about gum. This may be a silly question, but I am willing to sally forth. Listening to (I believe) Podcast 4 you mention the release of insulin when the taste of sweet is introduced to some people (or even the thought). Which makes me wonder about gum and what it does to the body. In a long workday gum can be my only salvation – but – I don’t like it already b/c of the sorbitol and how that impacts the body…
Any thoughts?
Annette-
Unless the individual is REALLY overweight and doing a ton of gum…not a problem.
Hey Robb.
Just got my cortisol test back and found out I am slightly high but even more so I have a flipped profile. Low in the mornings and high at night.
Would you say this is contributing to stalled fat loss ??
Kevin-
HELL YES. We will look at some ways to fix that soon.
Thanks Rob. My doctor is the one who recommended the test. He has me on 4 things taken at various parts of the day. Just started today.
DHEA
Pregnenolone
Adrenal Support Supplements
Adrenal Minerals
All from a company called Biomatrix
Kevin-
Looks solid, so long as all the support tests are being run with that.
I think the flatearthsociety is just one massive troll post to teh interwebz
I can’t listen to this guy say “Jits” or “zorched” anymore. Good thing nobody in the paleo community cares about sounding smart or being taken seriously!
Yes Jimmy, and nice that you have such overflowing success in life!!