Download a transcript of this episode
Topics:
- [2:58] Body Fat vs. Dietary Fat For Fat Loss
- [11:34] Obesity In The Paleolithic Era
- [15:37] Behcets Disease
- [28:39] Healthy Cookware
- [33:42] Azomite Powder and Clay
- [43:29] Snatching, Shoulder Strength, and Rugby
- [50:43] Sodium Bicarbonate Loading
Questions:
1. Low Fat Paleo
Steve says:
I heard someone once quote you as saying that until one reaches optimal body composition, the fat they have on their body is enough to keep them fueled and that this is optimal for fat loss. If that’s true, what’s the practical application? No additional fat in my diet – olive oil, avocado, nuts, etc.? Do I just eat paleo but keep everything lean and clean?
2. Obesity in the Paleolithic Era
Jeff says:
I have been paleo since Dec 5, 2011. I ran across an article called “Obesity in the Paleolithic Era”. The article basically compares some skinny and fat artifacts, and concludes that obesity existed in the paleolithic era. What are your thoughts?
http://hormones.gr/pdf/241-244.pdf
3. Behcets disease (BEY CHETs)
Dave says:
Hi Robb,
I have been on the Paleo lifestyle for a year now and it has been life changing. I work at a very active job as a heli ski guide – it is a great job but can be hard on the body (no complaints though) My joint pain has decreased as well more alert and I don’t get sick as frequently as before.
Writing you is not for me but is for my wife. I have slowly been converting my family to Paleo. This first step has been getting the family off gluten. I am wanting to get some information for my wife on Behcet’s disease which she has been diagnosed with. There is not a lot of information on it and her Dr. is sceptical on the Paleo diet which is quite frustrating at times. I know there is info on your site on auto immune disease but was wondering if you have any specifics for Behcets such as diet and supplement recommendations as well as lifestyle or exercise recommendations. She has a lot of questions and I am happy she is open to Paleo but want to give her as much info as possible to help with her health.
Thanks for everything and hopefully you or somebody can help us out.
4. Healthy Cookware?
Sean says:
Hey guys, <insert gratuitous praise and stroking here>. Seriously, though – toot, toot!
My wife and I were convinced to attend a “free dinner” at my mother-in-law’s house, courtesy of SaladMaster. After a couple hours of semi-misguided nutrition advice paired with an okay meal, the scare tactics made their appearance. They performed a “pot test”, spouted some unsupported rhetoric and showed us just how bad every pot and pan that wasn’t made from their titanium was for our health. This was followed by the sales pitch for their exorbitantly priced cookware.
So, now my question: How close to the truth are these salesmen? I’ve read plenty of bad things about Teflon, but what about stainless steel or cast iron? How about porcelain enamel? Have you done any research on the various cookware surfaces? I’m assuming that more inert is more better – so have you seen research that supports one surface over the others?
Thanks in advance for (hopefully) keeping $1000 pots and pans out of my kitchen.
5. Azomite powder
Julia says:
Hi Robb and Greg,
I am a family physician and want to thank you for all that you have done to spread the word about the paleo diet. I have been paleo for 2 months but have been recommending the diet to my patients with chronic disease for much longer. I finally took the plunge myself as a New Year’s resolution to “walk the walk” with my patients, and 2 weeks ago I started Crossfitting. During the prior 2 years I followed a gluten-free Weston A. Price Foundation diet including lots of good meats and vegetables but also soaked grains/legumes, accompanied by a lot of “chronic cardio.” I had a healthy baby 4 months ago after my second uneventful pregnancy. I feel better than ever since finally making the transition to paleo and cutting the cardio (acne and eczema are gone, nasal congestion is better, lots of energy despite still getting up a couple times a night to nurse the baby, etc.)
So to get to the point – I obviously no longer follow a WAPF diet, but have been adapting a lot of WAPF recipes to paleo versions. My question is about the WAPF recommendation to use montmorillonite clay (Azomite powder) as a mineral supplement and sports drink after exercise. I have always been intrigued by the sports drink recipe in Sally Fallon’s Nourishing Traditions, but have never made it because, frankly, eating clay seems completely unnecessary and more than a little risky. I know geophagy is common in other cultures, particularly in pregnant women. “Dr. Google” says that clay taken internally is said to have potent detoxification properties given its “high cation exchange capacity” and also is rich in trace minerals, but I have yet to see an evidence-based source for this information. We are of course taught in medical school that pica in the form of clay or soil ingestion is to be strictly discouraged, particularly among pregnant women, given the risk of heavy metal poisoning. However the fact that the practice exists in so many traditional societies makes me wonder what the real benefit-to-risk ratio is, and if geophagy had a place in paleolithic times as well. I am aware of the research showing that dietary clay can bind to aflatoxin in animals and humans, as well as studies that have found heavy metal contamination in clays in certain geographic areas, but am unaware of any studies showing clear benefit from a detox or mineral supplementation standpoint, or on the flip-side, showing clear in vivo toxicity from ingesting clay. Are you aware of any additional research supporting or discouraging its internal use?
Since starting Crossfit, I have been looking for a good post-workout recovery drink, and was reminded of the WAPF “sports drink.” The recipe calls for 8 ounces of filtered water mixed with the juice of one lemon, ¼ tsp sea salt, 2-4 tbsp whey, and 1/2 tsp Azomite powder. Obviously the whey would not be paleo-friendly, but I am mainly interested in what you think of the Azomite. Do you think it is safe for daily or every-other-day consumption? Is there potentially any added benefit to post-workout supplementation of the trace minerals in the Azomite, in addition to electrolytes – particularly in the context of an already mineral-rich paleo diet? What would you recommend as a cheap, easy homemade recovery drink? Looking forward to hearing your two cents, and keep up the good work.
6. Shoulder mobility, snatching and rugby.
David says:
Hi, Just to be clear, we rugby players consider ourselves to be real men because we don’t use pads or helmets. But clearly if I can’t out-snatch the top 48kg women (or Gregs wife), I am not a man. I was wondering if working on my shoulder mobility so that I can snatch deep and heavy will be counterproductive towards my goal of not getting shoulder dislocations or injuries playing rugby. I just play at an amateur level and haven’t had any serious shoulder injuries in the past, but here in Australia there is a 110kg Samoan on every team.
Other Info: Last year I got a niggling rotator cuff/front of my shoulder injury, but it went away after resting it. Currently I can power snatch but I’m not very comfortable in the deep overhead squat position. I really want to get better at the oly lifts with my shiny new weightlifting shoes and hopefully compete sometime soon.
I have been doing mostly the power lifts for the past 18 months with lots of power cleans and snatches during rugby season last year. Stats: 171cm, 86kg, 75kg press, 105 bench, 170 squat, 185 DL, 90 power clean, 67.5 power snatch
7. Sodium Bicarbonate Loading? Explosive Diarrhea may Occur!!
Sam M. says:
Hey Robb and Greg. Love the podcast! I have a quick and urgent question! I was wondering what are both your thoughts on Sodium Bicarbonate loading leading up to a competition. I have heard that it helps to stop the production of lactic acid and “engages beastmode” for a short time. I’ve heard 300mg per kilogram of body weight split evenly over 3 hours leading up to the competition/workout. I have also heard that if you go about sodium bicarbonate loading incorrectly, Explosive Diarrhea may occur! I CrossFit 5 times per week and have been Paleo for a little over a year now with great results. While I’m comfortable around my fellow athletes, I’d really rather not have any problems with anything being “explosive” whilst in the gym, or at all for that matter. Your help is much appreciated guys!
PS I don’t know how long it may take for this question to be answered, so I may just go for it. If you see an awesome YouTube video of a guy shitting himself during clean and jerks, I did it wrong.
Toot your horn. You know, tell you how awesome you are?
Man, dude, sometimes I yell at the computer. 😛
Im not sure why Robb was so fired up about the skeptical doctor, the language of doctors is the scientific method, Is there any prospective randomized controlled evidence that all autoimmune disorders come from gut permeability? please share, also is there evidence that a paleo diet cures all autoimmune disorders? anecdotal reports on a website is not enough for most physicians a controlled study is needed. There are reporting biases etc that can occur when the study is not controlled. I ascribe to the paleo diet but am skeptical about a cure all from eating this way. My cholesterol shot through the roof with paleo eating and only came down after eliminating egg yolks, hey guess what eggs do affect blood cholesterol in some people. There are too many blanket statements made by paleo proponents, the general principles are healthy but we are individuals and people respond differently. Paelo proponents need to partner with scientist to do good clinical studies, then and only then will there be buy in from the main stream medical community. There is the formula!
JOHN!
You speak truths. My only defense to many of your questions is we are in the proposed mechanism stage,for much of this, gold standard clinical trials are in que (some under way) and the noose is getting tighter around all of this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18585722
As to the individuality: My position has always been: “here is a general starting point, track biomarkers, see how you do, adjust as necessary.”
Great! I’m looking forward to having some solid evidence for what i advocate to friends and family
John, my cholesterol went up too. That is my Hdl and the large fluffy LDL subtype, TG went waaay down. Small dense LDL is te one to watch out for. Yolks are amazing, don’t give them up!
http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/reports/heart_health/1886-1.html
Many nutritionists have forgotten the scientific method…or only use it when it supports their hypotheses.
If you want to get the attention of academics and doctors you need to write a book on the same level as Matt Lalonde’s AHS talk. There needs to be a paleo textbook.
HA! there is http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1405197714.html
Obese figurines appear in the transition to sedentary lifestyle at the end of the paleolithic and are thought to represent plenitude. Nomad obese hunter gatherers would have had a big mobility problem and thus very unlikely to have existed.
They are probably have the ob/ob mutation where they don’t produce any leptin. Current day examples are the very young kids who weigh 100ish kg despite dieting.
See slide 26 and 27
http://www.slideshare.net/ancestralhealth/ahs-slidesrobert-lustig
We’re also dealing with artwork (whether it’s religious or decorative is another argument) and there’s a level of idealization involved. Most of the paleolithic and neolithic Venus figurines display the ideals of fertility: big pregnant belly, wide child-bearing hips, large milk-producing breasts. Ideals that are still in effect however many millennia later, ideals that are still symbols of fertility and fecundity in this industrial society.
Agree with the religious artwork angle.
Also, Richard Nokoley (sp?) featured a book called us+them a couple years ago. Premise is one of the major drivers in human evolution was Neanderthal Predation. This book had pics of some of the same chubby human idols. Author’s premise there is that it would be highly advantageous to not look like Neanderthals, since homo sapiens sapiens would be subject to predation, sexual predation, and sexual selection from other homo sapiens sapiens.
New site? I just heard on the podcast that it should be live while I am listening…
Not yet! soon.
Live? Like “live from Chico ! It’s Tuesday am!
Robb,
Would you please comment on using the protein sparing modified fast type protocol for someone with adrenal issues? Little background–I’m 42, around 140, recovering triathlete as of a year ago thanks to you! I’ve had some tests run by my PPN doc and seeing flatline adrenals, hypothyroid and a number of other issues.
Lately I’ve been struggling with lethargy and weight gain. I started tapering the coconut oil and fattier cuts of meat and feel better. I have very little starch in my diet and am looking for direction on how to proceed without further stressing the adrenals.
Thank you and all the best with the approaching Wolf cub arrival!
Michelle J
Little (or none) caffeine will help
A little more background–I’ve been Paleo for two years, went through the autoimmune protocol for a number of months and now only have eggs and nuts on a rotational basis. I’m very conscious of going to the adrenal ATM and am caffeine free and try to get as much sleep as I can at night. I take fermented cod liver oil, licorice extract, Seriphos and Adrenotone for the adrenals, high powered probiotics and sauerkraut. I have starch once a week post workout in the form of winter squash and/or some sweet potato.
I strength train based on my energy that day–sometimes twice a week, sometimes more, for 20 to 30 minutes. I walk, hike or bike now 3-4 times a week, getting a lot of sun. Stress management is good though sleep is sometimes an issue.
I had been taking coconut oil with my meals and that had worked for a while for weight loss and energy… until it didn’t.
My goals are health and longevity. I would like to lean out and have been cautioned about overdoing the protein sparing modified fast protocol with the adrenal issues. Do you have any thoughts on a cyclic use of low fat/low carb while keeping the tankered adrenals happy?
Thanks for your thoughts!
If the adrenals are cranky you really want to keep macros balanced, and not play with fasting etc. Leanness will come when the adrenals are healthy, sleep is good etc. You might want to dial the carbs up a bit, the fat down a bit.
Will do–thanks for the input!!
I’m a little confused…
You said you have “flatline adrenals.” That suggests to me somewhere close to “adrenal fatigue” or adrenal exhaustion, which would imply *lower* cortisol. (If the adrenals are still pumping out lots of cortisol, that ain’t good, but at least you know they haven’t keeled over and died yet.) I thought Seriphos was more for people with *higher* cortisol levels, not low.
Just curious, as I take it myself sometimes, but I take it to control/mitigate *high* cortisol.
Also: I agree with Robb – heal your adrenals first! The leaning out will come when your body gets back into balance, not the other way around. You might even think about exercising *less* if you’re especially wiped out and lethargic. (The walking, hiking, and biking are fine but you don’t want to push yourself too hard, so try to watch the intensity. Working out hard on tired adrenals is only going to make matters worse in the end.)
How tall are you? 140 isn’t necessarily that large…
Amy B,
My readings on the ASI test were flat–I think the am range is 13-20, mine was 5! Adrenal exhaustion was the word. Seriphos apparently can help the adrenals if low or high–as long as I finish my dosage before noon. I tried it before bed once and couldn’t sleep for a couple of days.
I have scaled my workouts back a lot and go to tolerance. If I go too hard I feel like I’ve been hit with a 40 lb sledge. If I don’t do enough I can’t sleep.
I’m 5’2″–I carry a lot of muscle but will tend toward the insulin resistant waistline when conditions aren’t up to spec. Ten years ago I was 235!
With Robb’s recommendation I upped my carbs by making a stew with my meat o the day, some fat and Paleo carbs and noshing on it through the day. Bingo! Blood sugar’s back to normal and my head is clear. Thanks!!
I appreciate the question and the input, Amy, I had wondered the same thing about Seriphos. I’m on my 3rd round of it and I do feel better.
I’m not sure if drastic reduction in fat intake (and carbs, of course) and an increase in protein would really produce rapid fat loss.
I would expect that the body deprived of blood glucose and ketones would switch to glucogenesis. In fact I did try a similar approach at one point and that’s more or less what happened: elevated blood sugar (despite near-zero carbs in the diet), feeling very badly and constant hunger.
My recommendation would be very different: lots of cocout oil (‘lots’ is relative here, you cannot have too much of it, really) – a couple of teaspoons every 3-4 hrs and BCAA.
would expect that the body deprived of blood glucose and ketones ”
Assuming you have excess fat your body would have all the ketones it needs so requirement of glucose would go down over time. Basically less cals you consume the more wt you’ll lose. Outright starvation would yield the most loss at the expense of lean muscle, hence the inc protein recommendation.
I hate to be a stickler on specific pots and pans as far as yays or nays bc like you said sometimes we don’t have the patience for a pan to be a at a specific heating point to put oil on it and perhaps the high end teflon is ok considering all the other crap we are subject to on a daily basis. With that said, reading all the permeculture sites they think Teflon is death and very much are against it, how do you feel something like the new “ceramic” finished pots and pans do? I feel like all-clad, calphlon have both put out their versions. Do you think it might be a little safer then the trace bad amounts of Teflon or it probably has its own issues in itself?
examples:
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=18094029
http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/martha-stewart-collection-ceramic-cookware-10-piece-set?ID=643371
re: Julius Caesar, epilepsy, and voices of the gods
This occurs fairly soon after when Julian Jaynes places the origin of consciousness, when voices from the gods were still a very real part of our lives. (And Neal Stephenson’s description of Sumerian mes in Snow Crash makes more sense in the context of a bicameral mind, in the dawn of our consciousness when we needed basic instructions for daily activities as we still learned the separation of labor brought about by agriculture.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Jaynes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_(mythology)
I have to agree with Martin’s recommendations. I have been using lots of coconut oil, whey isolate and coffee in the AM with the carb backloading protocol. The MCT’s increase fat burning, and I have gotten great results so far.
Hey guys! I have a question:
What cert. was it that you guys discussed at the end of the podcast that you have in the works? I’m staring my PhD in nutritional biochemistry (with a research focus on gut health) this fall and I would LOVE to add a paleo cert or something to it.
Gracias!
Juliet
Juliet-
We are workign on a multi-tiered cert. One will be for the strength coach/allied health provider, the other will be for MD/DO/DC/Phd. timeline: hopefully late 2012.
Sweet! thanks!
Awesome. I just learned about fat loss. I didn’t know that cookware sometimes plays a role in weight loss. Anyway, great article. Very interesting to read.
Robb: you mention in this podcast that you think that eating high protein with low carb and fat will result in rapid fat loss (which it may). How on earth do you do that? I have serious trouble finding foods that are high in protein that are not also high in fat. Eggs have about equal parts fat and protein. So does most meat, unless it’s defatted. There’s always chicken breasts and dry hamburger, but that doesn’t sound like a very stable diet. Chicken is a little better, but you still get a lot of fat in there. What would you suggest someone actually put in hte pie hole if they were going this route?
OH! Just dont ADD lots of fat to your meals. That’s all I’m saying. this will dramatically reduce the caloric content and should help fat loss. Obviously, this runs out as some point and we likely need to add some carbs or fat for maintenance.
That’s what I thought. Thanks. I’m going to try this: lots of eggs, chicken, and slightly lower fat beefs for a bit to try (today was a good day for that. 5 eggs for breakfast, chicken for dinner with a sardine lunch). I’ll check back in a few weeks and let you know how it goes.
Of all the Robb Wolf podcasts I’ve heard, I REALLY appreciated both the first question and answer about low fat paleo the most.
When I first tried to adopt “Paleo” eating strategies I thought it was perfectly OK to amp up the fat. 6 whole eggs and eight pieces of bacon in the morning, no problem! 10 ounces of meat for dinner–where’s the second portion?
Problem is, I also really amped up the calories and gained (even more!) weight.
About four months ago I started going to a weight loss clinic (they had the Taubes book on display in the front lobby and I knew I’d found home). They did both macronutrient and calorie restriction (with protein being the biggest source of calories). I’m proud to say that I’m down 54 lbs 🙂
I especially like the analysis about how you can go low calorie and lose weight, but if you go low calorie but keep protein high, and do some weight lifting you’ll likely hold onto muscle.
Once I got it into my head that the only purpose in eating a lot of fat/carb would be to fuel workouts it was so much easier to forgo those foods (especially given my lazy disposition). Well, they did also start me with an appetite suppressant, but that’s a whole different story ha ha.
Although my calories have been around 1500/day through this whole ordeal, I’ve kept my protein above 160g/day and down twice/week very basic weightlifting: DL, Bench Press, chin ups on Mondays, and Squat, Push Press, and Chin Ups on Friday. Similar to the M. Berkham Lean Gains workout recommendations.
I also read “Beyond Brawn” (or at least part of it) as recommended on his site and after years of working out decided “duh” it might be a good idea to record how much I’m lifting and strive for improvements. Never more than 9 sets for all three exercises combined; long rests in between (“Cardio and weightlifting are not the same thing!” ha ha)
The weight loss clinic I go to does a monthly “InBody” to measure muscle/fat, and I’m super excited to not have lost very much muscle at all. So far, BF has gone from 30 to 15%.
Anyway, couldn’t help but share because when Rob went through his answer on this one the light bulb totally went off for me. It perfectly described the approach I’ve taken, and made me happy as heck to realize how right I was to trust this clinic.
So thanks a ton for helping me put my finger on the “why” this has worked. When I first started I was so desperate I decided to just trust these people. I couldn’t think about it any more. I guess for that reason I’ve listened less often, but when I saw Q number 1 for this week I anxiously turned it on.
(BTW: I’m not mentioning the clinic name because I don’t want this post to look like trolling / spam). It’s local anyway.
Day on the Green, September 24, 1992. Robb, I’ll bet you were the guy dancing solo out in the middle of the flying chunks of sod between Metallica and GNR sets. Heavy metal toxicity indeed. It took weeks to recover.
Azomite is great for your garden veggies, let them repackage the minerals and eat that.
Ah! The day on the green! that WAS some great times.
Hi, Robb! You mentioned the FODMPAPs diet with Paleo autoimmune protocol during the Behcet’s question. Has anyone created a plan for those of us on the most extreme version of paleo? I have the autoimmune disorder ankylosing spondylitis with major digestive complications (constipation, gastroparesis, inflammation, belching, bloating, etc.). For the past year, I’ve avoided starch, nightshades, dairy, nuts, legumes, grains, egg whites (I eat the yolks), and sugars. Despite staying perfectly on the diet, I’m suddenly losing this fight. Eliminating FODMAPs now is a huge challenge when there is so little to eat (but I’m convinced this SIBO stuff is worth trying). My weight is at anoxeric levels despite shoveling meat down (difficult when despite the odds, you’re also a athlete/trapeze artist). Should I be eating only meat and a little bok choy at this point? Thanks for any ideas! Love your podcast!
Lindy! You’re in a tough situation! An elimination diet and reintroduction food challenge is likely the best route for you. Follow the autoimmune paleo, no/low FODMAP protocol (I would try eliminating eggs completely for a while), eat foods that you know do not result in symptoms. I would love to help you with a plan if you are interested let me know! http://robbwolf.com/about/team/amy-kubal/
I am so confused about the PSMF. I have been Paleo for about 3 months and have lost about 1lb/wk. and stalling. My primary goal is fat loss. I’m wondering if PSMF is appropriate for me. I heard Robb mention it on the Podcast and began researching it. I didn’t think the extremely low calorie and low fat seems to be a complete change in direction from the Paleo WOE. Can someone expalin when the PSMF protocol is appropriate and how it is used in Paleo WOE? Thanks.
yet another great podcast, BUT you said “we might get to the mycotoxin/coffee issue”, was that my question I submitted a few months ago? 😛 I was so excited but you didn’t get to it 🙂
Cheers
Petros
Ran out of time! We’ll get to it soon.
Hope so, super interested….I’m really wondering what you think of Dave Asprey’s (Bulletproof Exec) whole pitch on mycotoxins. Any chance you’ll touch on that ?
my question had that in it too 🙂 so hopefully they are going to be answering that… <3 you Robb haha
hey robb just heard the podcast; in regards to the first topic, this is how i’ve been cruising for a while and i would like to tinker with the bcaa’s. now all my dietary and lifestyle ducks are in a row (before we begin): lean xfit 3x/week, great sleep etc… i bought some l-leucine but it tastes horrible! so i was thinking in order to down 30-40g/day i’ll man up and just take them pre- and post-workout but for the other 10-20g/day, i would stir them in with my lunch and dinner (not cook them, just stir them in at the end). is this a feasible course of action?
many thanks,
ty
In this episode Robb was talking about eating 1 – 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight, no carbs, and no/very low fat to kick start rapid fat loss while minimizing muscle loss as much as possible. How is this type of macro nutrient break down even possible? What foods are there that are high in protein and have no carbs or fat?
Great podcast overall but I have to add that when inundated with mycotoxins, for instance from living in a home with hidden mold for many years or having previous run-ins with pesticides or heavy metals that lay a foundation for mycotoxins to take hold — the body is NOT always ‘pretty good’ at working through these things on its own and needs a binder, such as clay or cholestyramine to pull these toxins form the body. Keep in mind that at this juncture, the liver is often taxed from overworking itself (in some cases for years) and supporting the organs with binders is important. This is why livestock producers often include agents like AZOMITE in their feed, to improve immunity by the process of binding toxins. Glutathione production can also get rusty when the body has been overdoing it for an extended period of time. Toxins bad. Binders good.