We received communication last night from CF Legal that our affiliate license was to be terminated today. Greg Everett (Catalyst Athletics) received the same notice.
Update
Robb Wolf is a former research biochemist and 2X New York Times/Wall Street Journal Best-selling author of The Paleo Solution and Wired To Eat. Along with Diana Rodgers, he co-authored the book, Sacred Cow, which explains why well-raised meat is good for us and good for the planet. Robb has transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around the world via his top-ranked iTunes podcast, books, and seminars. He also co-founded the 1st and 4th CrossFit affiliate gyms in the world, The Healthy Rebellion community platform, and is the co-founder of DrinkLMNT Electrolytes.
Search Robbwolf.com
Robb:
I am a big fan of your content and the manner in which you communicate. Your website has been a huge blessing to me and my family. I know your work and business will continue to thrive but I am very sorry that you have been treated so poorly by CFHQ. I have long wanted to open my own affiliate but the manner in which CF has handled its relationships with it’s high level employees that have different opinions has given me pause.
Christian
What a joke…so much for “open source”
This whole thing has been sad from start to finish. I like you and your training philosophy and I like Crossfit, coach, everyone at HQ, (yup even him), and their training philosophy. It sucks to think that this is all because of a super small difference in one portion of the way that you train athletes to achieve peak performance. Its like a mouse turd causing a train wreck.
Have Fun, Train Hard,
Billy
Wow Robb. Sorry about that. Keep up the good work. Sad how CF is going.
Unbelievably sad and disappointing.
I hope this action helps people see through all of the noise. Things are more clear when you only look at what has been done, and not what has been said.
Guess co-branding isn’t so dumb after all.
I’m sure you will keep going and do what you feel is right. I look forward to someday attending a nutritional seminar with you, I don’t care what brand/logo is endorsing it. It’s the info that matters. 🙂
guess it makes sense to ‘fly two flags’ now
Well, as I see it you are better off without them. You have your dignity and integrity.
Probably the worst move they could make. In several years time I’m betting you guys can take the entire mother-lode away from Glassman. Re-name it, re-brand it. Make it better and cooler. No more stupid ass clowns as a mascot. Do it !!! Steal all the affiliates.
I’d be curious to hear on what basis your license was terminated. In what way is it alleged that you breached your agreement with CF, Inc?
John-
You’d have to look in the affialite section to see the reasonaing, I’m not going to re-post it here. Given the total picture it is, ridiculous.
Holy S**t.
Reason stated?
It’ll work out for the best in the end. Don’t forget to bring your de-affiliated ass over to the UK next year (if you could get Greg here aswell that’d be awesome!!). CrossFit licenced or not you’re still welcome in our house.
All the best,
Chris
Good news Robb. Cream rises and shit rolls downhill…how does it feel to be on the up side of the grade?
Best in everything-
Craig
In the immortal words of Ron Burgundy, “Stay classy HQ”
Hopefully, it will be a blessing in disguise and you’ll be able to parlay this into something more profitable and fulfilling for yourselves. You and Greg are the real deal, so you two should be alright.
One insightful thing Glassman said in the past was that the market recognizes excellence. Keep on kicking ass and people will continue to recognize that.
Robb,
Necessary step for you to now step forward and be who you need to be. Leave it in the rear view mirror, no hard feelings, don’t look back and now go forward….the people will follow quality information when they see it. Make it happen!
MOD
I choose not to renew my affiliation with crossfit in April this year due to dissatisfactions similar to those in the greyskull article. I now wish i was still affiliated so i could resign my affiliation in protest of your treatment.
I can’t wait to see how your career flourishes!
I think Ganine’s reply to HQ over at Catalyst Athletics is appropriate: http://www.ganine.me/fux2.jpg
She speaks for us all.
Robb,
You know I am a big fan of you and Nicki and the model you run at NorCal. Sorry to hear the news, but I am sure you were expecting it. It really doesn’t matter who you are or are not affiliated with, you have a wealth of knowledge and experience and just like the time without CrossFit in the past, you will thrive and continue to change people’s lives for the better. Thanks for doing what you do.
Looking forward to hosting the “Robb Wolf Nutrition Seminar” at One World when you finish your book 😉
Much love to you and Nicki.
freddy and nancy
They can try and shut you out but I believe the games are for anyone that qualifies. So bring a NorCal team and kick ass. Can’t wait for your book to be out. I know that I tell everyone that will listen to check your blog out it will improve their lives dramatically. Oh and I look forward to attending any nutrition conferences you have near Seattle.
The podcasts are great. Thank you for all the knowledge.
Robb
Well they just proved you right. CFHQ are not concern about helping anyone except for themselves. This is punishment for having the Black Box Seminar and threatening their Cert income. Well Fuck Them and start your own Fitness Open Source Organization with Greg. Many of us are ready to jump ship and join you, because the cream will rise to the top.
Thats’s crappy that they’d go that route. HQ has the mentality of a spoiled 5 year old. F&#*’em Robb. Crossfit is loosing much more than you are!!
In a few years, you will remember it as one of the defining moments of your life, but I am sure it sucks today.
Be strong brother, and please let me know if there is _anything_ I can do for you and Nicki. You have been a great help to me, my daughter, and my customers and we are indebted to you both.
Saul-
You have alwasy been a great friend. Thanks you.
Unfreekingbelieveable. I hope this a clarifying and sobering incident for a lot of people.
It is very obvious that Greg Glassman is intimidated by others. Given that he is out of shape and probably cannot CrossFit, that is understandable.
I think Kelly Starrett and Lincoln Brigham will be next to jump (or more like be made to walk the plank) the CrossFit HQ ship.
I’m not surprised. I wonder what their legal “reason” was to do this, because it seems as if there is none.
Everyone else concerned: people at CFHQ monitors Robb’s blog, so if you’re an affiliate who is interested in remaining affiliated, tread lightly here, on Facebook, and in other places in which you may get accused of being a “free thinker”. I learned that lesson the hard way last weekend.
Robb, that really is CF loss. You’re a very talented communicator. All Crossfit affiliates should be warned. If they get their affiliate revoked they could be in a strange position. I am sure there will be a rush of Crossfit Anytown affiliates that change their names in the near future.
Sad to see you go, man. You’re still going to do well.
Robb, keep up the good work. It’s funny to see how they’re suppressing the open source model, the very thing that got them where they are.
Well, at least their intentions have been made clear now. Resistance is futile. You won’t really need luck in your future endeavors. Your background and expertise will see you through. Enjoy the freedom.
Robb,
I’ve always greatly appreciated the info that you generously share with all of us! This episode is an example that excellence will outlast branding or names. Keep it up!
So should we be expecting a new brand name soon, one that was birthed from Crossfit, engineered through science and research, and developed into a perfect love child?
Update from here, I’m going to try running a paleo challenge throughout 4 globo-gyms here if all goes as planned. Thanks for all the podcasts, even with the technical difficulties.
Robb, do you have a link to their reasoning?
Ryan-
I’m not really interested in posting the letter. They kicked me out for what they Let Glasman get away with. That’s about the extent of it.
So much for the affiliate cup now.
Robb
Keep up the good work, you have many out there who support you. Sorry to hear the news. This really puts things into perspective.
hi, robb sorry to read about this,hope it will not effect greg and yourself in the longrun too much. i will still follow both your websites daily, and crossfit, but now they have lost some respect from me. please come north east (beantown) with greg someday for a seminar, and hurry up with that book. all the best, Augie.
Lame, but let me known when you, GE, and Rut go on to affiliate “Black Box Strength and Conditioning Systems.”
Looks liek the night of the long knives came. I go to Greg’s gym and I’ll be there tonight with bells on whether he’s w/ CFHQ or not.
That’s a shame that crossfit HQ would act in such an immature manner; it makes me regret all the times that I defended the organization to others. You and Nicki have worked hard to build a facility that provides great training with regards to nutrition, fitness, and support. Looking forward to seeing it continue to grow, the RIGHT way. see ya tomorrow for what I expect will be another great workout!
CFHQ example of the cream rising to the top? I wander what CFHQ will say about this?
http://www.optimumtraining.ca/opt_ccp.htm
Pretty absurd goings on. Sorry you have been made to suffer this way.
On the bright side, perhaps this offers the potential for some friendly (or not so friendly) competition from people trained in your camp against CF HQ trained (Zone-based nutrition) people. I’d love to see a head to head competition at some future CF games between the “radical paleo” camp and Zoners. You could challenge them on athletic performance parameters, but also health and body composition parameters. It could be an awesome way to get some vindication and validation.
So keep up the good work, and kick some ass!
Robb,
I’d like to be the first to congratulate you on this! Seriously! You’re better off now!
Did they try to give you the “It’s not you, it’s me” spheal?
Take care,
Patrick
Robb you stuck by your beliefs and you are a better man for it! Thanks for all the great work.
A new national organization will emerge to compete. Long live
FITCROSS NATIONAL with headquarters in Chico, Ca.
Don’t worry – just use the services of the RRG to defend yourself…you’re still listed with the other affiliates…
Robb,
I’m sorry this happened. I dedicate this to you, Greg, and all the other free-thinking ex (or soon to be ex) affiliates out there:
http://www.ganine.me/im_free.mp3
Ganine!!
I saw your other dedication too, you kick ass girl!
That is truly horrible…..
Robb,
Thanks for all you do. You’ve brought the CrossFit community so much high-quality information and real-world experience over the years. You were also, hands down, the most accomplished trainer at my cert.
It’s absolutely dreadful the way this has gone down.
The HQ response to the Black Box Summit is really very telling. When I read Glassman’s posts on the Affiliate blog about the so called problems with your nutrition certs, I could hear the distinct crack-and-thud of falling scenery. As an ex-Avid CrossFitter and fan of Coach, it’s difficult to see this happen. But he’s clearly lost it.
Anyway. It’s clear where the quality, open-source health and fitness information resides on the web, and it’s clearly no longer at crossfit.com. I’ll keep my browser tuned to you and your colleagues. And I look forward to your future posts.
Warm Regards.
Thanks again, Robb. Your site has been and continues to be invaluable to me and countless others.
They better have given you some money back (prorated for the time you aren’t going to be an affiliate) or I’d sue their asses.
Good deal Robb. Keep up all the work you and Nikki are putting in, keep the book going and podcasts coming too please. But I couldn’t find the newest podcast on iTunes today? Is it uploaded on there? I’ve looked and looked to no avail. Thanks…Norcal Strength and Conditioning…Finally a shorter name.
well it’s never been about the Programming and always been about the coaching…I do not know how people always seem to forget that…
Needless to say yall are going to be A-okay up there….
Fuck Crossfit.
LOL….seems to me I remember several CF bigwigs saying that Robb and Greg would never be “deaffiliated”:
Tony Budding:
“The truth always comes out in the end…..For those of you feeling like the big bad powerful corporate CrossFit can and does arbitrarily destroy people’s lives, check your facts. Robb and Greg Everett and Dutch were not deaffiliated. They have not been blackballed or slandered or censored. Robb was removed from his role as the nutrition presenter. Period.”
Looks like Tony needs to “check” his own facts again. I do agree though, the truth does eventually come out.
Tony Budding went on to say:
“If it turns out that I’m naive ….and that my job as the Director of Media and Web Content is really more about spin, branding and damage control than fitness, then I’m in the wrong position.”
I don’t know if Tony ever checks this blog out, but if he is a man of his own words, then he really needs to rethink this “position”. If someone with access to the affiliate page is brave enough to repost my quotation from Tony, I would love to hear his spin, Um, I mean response.
Barry Cooper:
“First off, both Greg and Robb are going to remain CrossFit affiliates.”
Try again Mr. Cooper, your bud’s at HQ lied to you about this too.
Robb, while you may not want to share it with me, (because you know I will want to do something about it), I would LOVE to see the CF affiliate licensing agreement and the legal departments notice to you. Please…..Please….Please
Any idea how I can get my money back I donated to the RRG????
Sorry to hear this but this puts a real sour taste in my mouth about Crossfit.
WOW! Disturbing to say the least. I’m in the process of affiliating, haven’t paid my fee yet. IDK now. Kinda speechless
Sorry about what happened.
De-affiliate one of the top affiliates?! Yep, the butter done slipped off his molecular biscuit. Put this comical travesty behind you and get ready for an epic book signing tour. Take it on the road I’ll put you up here in Bozeman anytime. We love you Robb!
Holy Sheeiit was my first response.
You don’t need the CF name attached to what you do. The information you provide is incredible and thanks for all the nutrition info you make available to us all. Can’t wait for the book!
I have PCOS and your advice has changed my life for the better!
I’m sorry to see this. I also feel badly for the awesome NorCal athletes that now will no longer be able to compete in the Affiliate Cup at the Games.
Robb and Nicki, I am sorry to hear about this. This is a real shame for the CF community. I don’t get it. CF needs more affiliates like Nor Cal, you all have done much for helping the rest of us advance and I assume this is not going to stop now.
So can you go ahead and spill the beans on the whole story now? We all want to know how this really went down.
🙁
this is bull twang.
Robb,
I hope your book is not too sciency. My lack of an edumacation and I might not be able to make heads or tails of it. I think this will be better in the long run.
Visual: A ship rams the fuck into an iceburg! All the passengers realize this and can see the damn thing in addition to the ship sinking, the crew on the other hand are loyal to its captain and only see an iceburg if the Captain acknowledges it.
Ship’s Passenger: “Abandon Ship! Abandon Ship, we’ve hit an iceburg and we’re sinking!”
Captain: “Until I have the precise mass and dimensions of that so called ice burg we’ve supposedly struck, I refuse to acknowledge its existence! Yelling and shouting ‘ahoy’ and telling everyone we’ve hit an iceburg is not very scientific of you now is it? Carry on!”
I’m sure I’ll be among the next series of cuts. This comment might actually help it along.
Robb, sorry to hear HQ seems to be acting so vindictive. I hope you’re not letting this get you down! The resources you have given to this community are outstanding.
And, by the way, I am loving the podcast! Keep it up!
I think the time has come to question the true value “Crossfit” headquarters adds to it’s “co
munity”. I think there is a better model out there and truly better minds and bodies to pick up where this foundering entity has left off. “Crossfit” HQ simply cannot support/interest/occupy the time of those individuals who Re in pursuit of delivering more appropriate means of fitness development to their own community. Take a look around at a small handful of those who through the pursuit of a “better” way have been “thrown out” or at the very least branded with “anti-establishment” rhetoric – Mark Twight, Dutch, Dan John, Greg Everett, and Robb Wolf. These aren’t dumb guys (in fact they are really smart and relevant in the strength and conditioning world)…does this seem strange? Apparently not for the 6 certifications that were held this weekend and at $1K an entry who cares if the community loses it’s greatest minds (James Fitzgerald is now doing his own certifications. One can only assume that he has been shamed into it as a way to legitimize his good name and to raise the bar of a broken process). Lose 5 affiliates pick up another 20…who cN argue with that? But even if you do the math it seems incredulous there hasn’t been a mutinous riot at HQ. The coaches who staff the “certs” get roughly $500-$1000 for the weekend…hmmmm….now I am not the smartest person on earth but that is a lot of extra money going somewhere or to someone…and little value shown to a staff who generally does bust there butt coralling the enlisted. I am not even going to comment on the ridiculous nutitional doublespeak that was evident in “couches” (yes I am that immature) rebuttal/justification/whatever that was presented a couple days ago. Anyhow…I have gone off the reservation…but I do think there is an opportunity to do better. We shall see. Greg and Robb…you are now free to continue to grow and develop I credible programs inspite of the previous association. Blah…blah…blah.
Man.. you could cut the collegiality with a knife.
Couch is a hypocritical prick.
Wow…
Glassman – bloated lying sack of crap. Fools people with painful obtuse language that says nothing. Talks of data but never produces any real analysis. Pretty good businessman in terms of his own wealth (although I think part of it is a timing fluke). Cannot control his rage over the internet and participates in character assassination and then tries to hide it (or others have to cover it up – see his old CF mainsite forum posts that had to be deleted, WOD comments, Mark Twight, Dan John etc.)
Budding – I think he is just clueless, doesn’t have the same intentional malice of the others, you would think he would have learned more by now about fitness and programming.
Castro – Pompous asshole, skinny legs
HQ Programming – really stupid lately
Barry Cooper – Wannabe Glassman, pretends to be a trainer running a business, is actually a fat slob with horrible fitness, zero programming knowledge
I can’t wait to see how long Louis Simmons/WSB can work with CF, even if the money is great I don’t think he will be able to handle the bullshit. I wonder what he actually thought of Castro.
hi, sorry to hear that. very shortsighted of cfhq. crossfit has given me a lot, but you & your nutritional cert changed my life. after eating a “healthy” vegetarian diet for 19 years, i bought 1/4 of a cow from my farmer friend and i have not looked back. thank you. looking forward to your book. and when you start teaching again if you would want to visit the center of europe…
Robb, I’m so grieved about all this. I’m disappointed and disillusioned with crossfit’s leadership. Hold your head up high and keep seeking excellence, you’re guilty of nothing but disagreeing with the ‘lords of the realm’.
Sorry to hear this. Robb and Nikki will move onto bigger and better things. Crossfit doesn’t own the movements, it’s just a brand.
Can’t wait to read the book
Hmm, just noticed that Greg was no longer a member on the CF board and the thread in the PM forum.
Troubling indeed.
Ugh. It’s one thing to shoot yourself in the foot. That’s just ordinary stupid, but to go back to your truck and get a bigger gun to finish the job, that’s deep-end loony.
There are consequences to every decision. The truth is the more courageous decision. Take comfort in knowing that you value truth more than security.
“Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.” – Benjamin Franklin
words to live by….
So much for CF and open source. I hope this will not create hardship for you and Greg. I have never taken the nutrition cert but have taken Greg’s -lifting weekend seminar and it was amazing. I think the wrong people are leaving CF and for the past year I have found the information and programming better at the PM/CA than at CF.
Maybe a bit of Sound of Music, you can send them a singing telegram.
So long farewell, auf weidersehen good-bye
I hate to go and leave this pretty sight
So long farewell, auf weidersehen adieu
Adieu, adieu, to you and you and you
Robb,
Thanks for all you do. I’ve learned so much from you and become a better athlete/coach as a result. Please don’t stop doing what you do best…helping people.
I just stumbled onto this after reading your post about loosing your affiliation. How timely. This is an interview with Charlie Rose, the author of “How the Mighty Fall”. As far as I can tell CFHQ is at “stage 3”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubXHjs8XQ3M
HC-
Def 3, one would make the arguement for 4 given the new rotation of SME’s and generally replacing people.
never liked coach…even when I first heard of crossfit I thought he was an arrogant prick who always tried to loo for fights…robb, you and greg everett have done so much for this community that this is bullshit that their doing this to you.
I find it somewhat humorous that this “open-source” community who actively defends their position not to regulate their affiliates in any way will, at a whim, strip affiliation from someone for what are, in truth, minor disagreements.
I can’t wait to hear how much of a “traitor” you are in a few months. That’s the day I’ll know that CFHQ has no shame.
Dave-
Yep, this will range from me not having an education to doing all this as a calculated means of self promotion.
Robb,
I look forward to continue following your resourceful nutritional and training knowledge. Thank you for sticking to your gut on what you believe is right (not talking about grains).
🙂
Robb, if all along the nutritional info I’ve received from you is wrong. Then I don’t want to be right 😉
You’ve already created a community here. We’ll continue coming back. Thanks.
Not surprising. NOW, what may really get interesting is if HQ attempt to use legal means against the other scores of credible and excellent trainers and gyms out there who have used “mixed-mode” training for years. Reasonable and intelligent people see through all of this, its about the money. The only aspect of this I believe CrossFit has revolutionized is the internet marketing and widespread certification of the :mixed-mode” training. Whether you’ve seen it or not, this type of training has existed for decades before CrossFit, but my guess is they will try to “go after” some of the folks that they’ve alienated, to no avail in my opinion. (if they could they would have already gone after Mark Twight).
I say keep the great and ever evolving information coming, ignore the idiots who want to make this only about the cash.
Robb – I’ve been lurking your site for several months (thanks to Melissa Urban’s blog) and have gotten so much great, beneficial information.
I just wanna chime in that what HQ is doing to you and Greg is atrocious. Please keep doin’ your thing. I can’t wait to buy your book!
I have been watching all of this over the last couple of weeks. After all Ive seen and experienced first hand from crossfits so called Director Im no longer honouring my own CF certs and sending myself back to school and re-uping my prior trainer certs and abandoning CF all together. Their lack of openmindness has driven me away. Which is funny because thats what drew me to them. Though I will not abandon their methods and ideas I believe now that there is something better out there for all of us. Robb how do we get a cert in ME Blackbox, and would it be possible to get it here in St. Louis Missouri. One more thing Crossfit should go back and check their early nutrition videos lol. Even Glassman recommends paleo. Maybe he should fire himself!!!!!!!
Thomas-
I’m sure Rutman would liek to do a seminar at your place (easy trip) I could certainly do a nutrition gig on the 2nd day. Shoot either me an email or contact Greg & Aimee at Catalyst and we can see what works. I will not be back out doing stuff till the book is finished however.
Thansk for the support…check out the OPT Coaching Certification. THAT looks good.
Sorry to hear that, Rob.
Irrational people do irrational things.
Please know that you have touched and saved so many lives. Thank you for introducing my husband and I to paleo at the nutrition cert we attended back in the summer in Edmonton. It has completely changed our lives, and has made me a better person. This is a way of life that will help me live better now in my 40’s (and beyond) than I ever did at 20 or 30.
And whenever you have more nutrition seminars set up in the future, we’ll be there!
Hi Rob,
I am certainly no lawyer, but I would make the SOB spend time and money to “de-affiliate” me. If you paid your fee and do not owe money, whats that about? Couch doesn’t want to be a franchise for legal and tax reasons, yet he wants to control you guys like a franchise? Affiliates are free to do there own thing unless he doesn’t like you? Make him open up that can’o worms by forcing him to fight for it. Dave would certainly know the legalities of all this, but if he were to win, wouldn’t that prove crossfit a franchise? Hello Taxes, couch! I believe like many your better off without hq, but there actions piss me off a enough that I would want them to pay a bit. Anyway, best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Richard
Robb,
You and Nicki have been good to us, and we appreciate that. We have and will continue to be vocal supporters of your training methods, professional conduct, and (science-based!) nutritional practices. You’d be proud – I ate ~4000 calories of good, clean, Paleo food between 7PM and bedtime last night. Greg’s programming is making me HUNGRY 🙂
Dallas!
How the hell did you do that!? Give us a break down on the damage.
thanks for the support WTW.
Big Shocker considering the post on the affiliate message board! Looking forward the book Robb!
Robb – You are the truth. Get that book out so I can buy it!
Orie Shafer – How is Ann Arbor? Cold enough? I’ll be around with the wife Dec. 27-30…we’ll give you a call.
I’m sorry to hear about this, and how you’ve been treated. Your blog and The Performance Menu have some of the best fitness information available. This entire mess has made me think long and hard about the important distinction between Crossfit, Inc. and Crossfit, the fitness philosophy. I adhere to the Crossfit fitness philosophy (“World class fitness in 100 words,” “What is fitness” etc), but my respect for HQ itself has declined immensely. CFHQ seems to have abandoned the “black box,” “do whatever works” attitude in favor of a rigidity straight out of “1984”. What they don’t realize though is that Crossfit isn’t just a business anymore, it’s a collection of people and ideas. CFHQ owns the name, but not the community or the ideas. I’m starting to dread that the recent splintering could only be the beginning – Rippetoe, Everett, Wolf, who’s next? You, “NorCal Strength and Conditioning,” the Performance Menu and Greg Everett are still huge parts of the community, if not the CF Affiliate page.
So much for “avoiding micro fights” and focusing on “the real battle,” huh? Anyways, keep up the good work.
robb, this if fucking bullshit. all differences between you and crossfit HQ aside, you’ve done too much for this community for that to be the end result.
I am sorry about this whole mess. It has gotta be tough to be the brunt of all this crap. Well, I gotta tell you. I am following your reccomendations and I am turning beastly. Not just nutrition, you are the one who turned me on to MEBB. Last week I Zercher squatted 275 and that truly was all I could do:not just because of the arm pain. This week I repped out 315 no prob. I am losing weight and getting stronger. Unfortunately, I don’t have any measures on my Metcons right now, but my stamina feels great.
I appreciate your contributions and will keep following. I just have one request and/or suggestion. Please, PLEASE, PLEASE get your people, get Greg’s people to the GAMES!!!!! You have to show everybody your methods work, again. CF says the games are the testing ground for training methods. You rocked the affiliate contest. Go win it, and get some people in the games.
Sorry to hear this Robb. Let me know if I can help with anything.
Brad
Robb,
I’m not sorry that you got deaffiliated, along with catalyst and Dutch as well as it appears (I may be wrong on that)? But really when it breaks down to it all, this whole Crossfit movement started in the dirt, lived in the dirt, and started to grow out of the dirt and change. Back from the days of the origination of what is now Crossfit Seattle (level 4), it was always a keep it in the dark means of getting fit as fuck. And now that it’s seeing light, it’s starting to transform. Crossfit’s are popping up inside globo-gyms, the very people that most Crossfitter’s talk down on. Crossfit used to be a very open community, where gyms from one town would promote the rep of other Crossfit gym, and it got a good name out there for it. Now it’s getting to be a part where so many affilates are popping up and most new owners are so worried about there pockets that they’ll demean and slander other Crossfit’s just to pick up more clients, rather then just providing outstanding service and getting outstanding results.
Now Crossfit is getting less standardized. Raise the affiliation rate why? No reason other then more money? RRG? More money in. Benefits such as wounded warriors I totally agree with, as long as all of the money raise has been going to those foundations without CF taking a cut out of it, even for promotional costs or whatnot.
When it boils down, and all the heavy shit settles on the bottom, and all the fat shit rises to the top, you’re left in the middle with the best shit. Wether or not NorCal hosts a CF title doesn’t matter. CF is a mindset, not a name. It’s pushing your limits physically, mentally and emotionally. Just cause a affiliate does a KB swing doesn’t make it CF. And just cause it says CF on the building or lease agreement doesn’t make it work. What you and Nikki and your extensive team of trainers have been able to build not only at NorCal, but also nationally, and I’m sure internationally as well, far surpasses what CF is now bringing to the table. In the survival of the fittest, NorCal has come out on top over CF on this one. No need to feel sorry that affiliations have been pulled. The following has already been built.
Count your chickens before they hatch, just make sure they’re all from free range eggs.
Side note: I know what the end of the world in 2012 is going to be. E-Coli is going to get into the corn crops from all the grain and corn fed cows waste, since they are going to soon be “developing” a acid and anti-biotic resistant strain of E-Coli. These corn crops then are going to be processed and manufactured into all of the common folk foods, which is going to then lead to the massive spread of the E-Coli, as well as the meat sources spreading worldwide as well. All the fatties out there are going to eat this stuff, their immune systems so weak already that they can’t fight the strain at all and large numbers of them will sadly die off. This will be seen as a global epidemic and some will call it the end of the world. The only survivors will be the Gluten Free Paleos on grass fed beef and free range birds as well as wild game. Not even the Zoners. Watch and see.
Too bad for CF. They will soon fall by the wayside, and be forgotten. They have let money become the driving force of their existence, not the true pursuit of making lives better for people. Robb,Nicki, Greg, Dutch, Welbourne,Starett,Cj and those that are honestly trying to make the industry better will thrive and continue to be a source of inspiration and an example of how to do it right. Thank you guys. Remember. things happen for a reason! —–Rocky Mountain Strength and Conditioning, Bozeman MT *Formerly Crossfit4800 We deaffiliated ourselves!! The hell with HQ!
Robb, just wanted to add another bunch of good wishes. Everyone knows you’ll just go from strength to strength, I imagine you and Nikki know it too, and I can’t wait to see more (starting with that book!)
I find it interesting that despite all of this, your moderate stance has never changed. The latest podcast talks about CrossFit and the Zone in exactly the same way you’ve always treated them; i.e. with respect but not reverence, and as tools in the box to use when appropriate, but not as perfect answers to everything. It’s no surprise to see you behaving this way (i.e. with some class), but good to see none the less.
Like almost everyone else I can’t help but be engrossed in all of the goings on, it’s as addictive as crack, but the important thing is of course to look out for yourself and Nikki. So on the one hand I hope more details are made public (partly through nosiness, but mainly because other affiliates or people thinking of paying any money to HQ would benefit from seeing this stuff), but more than that I hope you do what’s right for you, and if that means staying quiet on some or all of it then that’s the best route.
Shit, waffling again – short version is: “all the best, finish the book, do what you think is best. Oh, and get to the UK and do a seminar next year!”
Hey, Everyone, look for the positive in all of this … light a candle, light a blowtorch, but keep shining!
I choose good and will subscribe to PerformanceMenu. For sometime I’ve been educated by Robb, Gregg, Dutch, Rip and plan to continue.
Here’s to the future!
Asshole Barrier, anyone?? From HQ’s side…
DoubleCrossedFit is now affiliating.
Robb, sorry to hear this also, but I’m sure this will be better for you in the long run. You have provided an amazing service through your blog and the nutrition cert/seminar, and most recently the excellent podcasts.
I know I’m not the only one who has learned a lot and been able to improve me life and the lives of others through what you have done for the fitness community.
Thanks!
Robb,
We’ve got Rutman coming out Aug 27th for the MEBB. Wanna take the 2nd day? We can still have it on the beach. Keep up the good fight. I see the difference you make every day in myself, my family and the athletes at my box. Between you, Rutman and James I’m pretty sure my mom would be proud that i’m hanging out with the “good crowd.”
-Jeremy
Jeremy-
That sounds AWESOME! shoot me an email and let’s look at that.
Sad state of affairs. But i know you and greg will come back stronger than ever. You both will always have support!
Robb, for what its worth I recently submitted some high quality climbing photography for the mainsite and just sent them an email stating I no longer wished to be publicly associated with their enterprise and to please not use them in any way.
I know they get tons of submissions and mine will be easy to overlook, but I almost hope they decide to try and make a point by pushing the issue. I’d like to show them how big a pain in the ass a 3rd year georgetown law student with a focus in IP law and too much free time can be…
Up to this point I was willing to see this as unfortunate growing pains (although they were out of line) that might fade as time went on.
That’s bullsh*t, but knew it was coming. Last thing HQ wants is norcal via programming and nutrition, (that is PALEO) to win an affiliate cup or have any other recognition. Its unfortunate for the crossfit community, because Robb and Greg actually give a damn!
Wow. Talk about a dumb move by CFHQ. All this does is reinforce the fact that affiliates need to make sure they have an exit strategy. Cause if the house of cards falls, people need to be ready to offer a great service outside of the CrossFit Brand.
You and Greg have done so much for the community, keep up the great work. Myself and others know where to go when they want unbiased information.
looks like HQ did you a big favor:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22robb+wolf%22&ctab=183017504&geo=all&date=2009
Has anyone seen or heard of the Soviet CSS method? Here is an interesting link – http://www.elitefts.com/documents/TomMyslinski.pdf. Sounds a little familiar.
If Crossfit is a sport, what’s to keep you from continuing to use the name crossfit? For example, football is a sport and HQ doesn’t have to license the name football for the Crossfit Football certification. Seems like they’ve put themselves into a corner by claiming crossfit is a sport.
Robb,
I use what I learned at your Cert EVERY DAY with my clients. Truth be told, you are the most educated, detailed presenter of any cert I have attended, and the competition is fierce, as they were all outstanding.
This bothers me on a deep level, as it seems that voices that stray too far from the company line get axed rather than put to the test, as is the mantra.
This would’ve been a perfect opportunity to truly test this whole Zone versus Paleo idea and see who wins. Instead, the “opposition” has simply been excommunicated, as that is the easier tactic.
I wish you and Nikki the best of luck. Clearly you have a loyal following and will do fine without CrossFit HQ, but I’m sure it helps to “feel the love” that is flowing your way all the same right now.
Crossfit’s lawyer kind of explains what happened (from their point of view) without giving any names or incidents:
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=711335&postcount=15
as long as the podcasts don’t stop!
in all seriousness, good luck to you.
I asked for my account to be closed at the CrossFit Message Board after they banned this posting:
“For a great summary of the Paelo Diet see: http://robbwolf.com/?p=1046”
and the revoking of Robb and Greg’s affiliation. Open source my …
Robb,
Here’s the breakdown from last night’s madness:
Post-workout Meal 1 (around 7:30): 6 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 2 medium-large sweet potatoes.
Meal 2 (half an hour later): 10 oz local, organic, grass-fed sirloin steak (rare, of course!), 12 oz broccolini, 4 oz almonds, 1 pear.
Meal 2.5 (dessert from Meal 2, really): 1 can (14 oz) coconut milk, 3 oz walnuts, 1/2 cup frozen blueberries, 1/2 cup frozen raspberries.
Meal 3 (about 90 minutes after 2.5): the second 10 oz sirloin steak I grilled for Meal 2, 2 Jazz apples with about half a jar of Sunbutter, and about 1.5 cups of sweet potato mash.
Meal 4: 5 hard-boiled eggs, 6 oz fresh blackberries, a big handful of brazil nuts.
Meal 5: 8 oz smoked salmon, half a honeydew melon (a DELICIOUS combination, BTW), and some sauteed zucchini/onions with fresh basil and lime juice.
“Meal” 6: an unrevealed (but very large) amount of Purely Decadent Mint Chip coconut milk “ice cream”. This stuff is CRACK. Be warned. Melissa introduced me to their Chocolate Explosion flavour, and we’ve been spreading the Decadent Love ever since.
And… I woke up RAVENOUS this morning.
Be well, my friend.
dude…you are a MACHINE!! All hail The Dallas!!
I am sorry about all this, mostly because I owe crossfit a lot, but I owe so much more to you: I’ll shut up and subscribe to Nick’s short version : “all the best, finish the book, do what you think is best. Oh, and get to the UK and do a seminar next year!”
Hey Robb,
I just wanted to extend my thanks to you. I have a major personal respect for you (as well as coach). After all, Coach helped me with the fitness side of my progressions, but your advice to me was what helped me regain control of my nutrition and helped me lose 185lbs using Paleo. It feels odd to see this whole thing happen, but I want to let you know I will always continue to follow your work. You and Nicki also offered me so much valuable advice on starting my Affiliate and I love the progress it has shown.
Once your book is done and you start touring again, I would love to have you out to CrossFit Pasadena for a Paleo Nutrition Seminar.
All my best to you and Nicki,
-Johnny D
I’m with Thalin, get to the UK at some point. I came to your stuff late in the day and am just starting ti implement paleo on the strength of your cogent explanations. The podcasts are superb (if a little rough and ready) and I posted a comment on iTunes recommending it.
This whole situation reflects badly on Crossfit. Keep maintaining your dignity in it. It’s quite amusing listening to some of the back issues of crossfit radio… strikes me that a lot of the Games winners are using paleo over Zone. Surely the “athlete zone” highlights the fact that the zone is not the perfect finished article… Anyway, your material is superb and your approach worthy of respect. Be true to yourself, the rest of us don’t matter and your clients will be your clients because of your qualities not because of a badge.
Horrible state of affairs, horrible move by HQ. OPEN CHARTER? I thought the idea here was being open to new ideas, that the ‘commitment is to improving human performance, not our methods’ (Greg – speaking to the War College). Sickening.
Robb, you’ve certainly been the model of class throughout this; I hope for my (and other’s too, I guess) sake you continue being the educator you’ve been, regardless of your relationship with CFHQ.
Hey Robb-
It is a bummer in one way, only how they went about it. But in the end, maybe you and Greg are just to big to fit in the Crossfit box anyway! I loved your Cert at the Energy Lab ( I was the one with the Type 1 teen son)- never in my life had I experienced a self-professed science geek explain science so well. I use what you taught everyday and it works if you do it. I guess you just have to chalk this one up to CFHQ choosing a side, maybe for commercial alignments?
Anyway, there is no doubt about the importance of what you are doing, so keep it up and I will keep following. Good luck with the book!
I’ve said it before and Ill say it again. CFHQ has lost their minds. CFHQ was the transition from globo gym to some real training. However, as we all evolved others came into the picture; Robb, Greg, Rut, Rip, OPT, Dutch…all superior to the original CF. If you fail to recognize and adapt you will fail. Keep up the good work. Who really follows the main site anymore anyway.
And hurry up with the book……..
@Dallas. Not to threadjack but this ice cream is kosher for paleo?
Luis-
Anything is kosher anytime…it;s all about your goals, needs and susceptibilities. If one is trying to lean out, 4K cals and ice cream might be at odds. If one is 6% BF (like Dallas) one has significant latitude.
I’ve met people put off CF due to the measuring stage of Zone.
CF for me is a great mix of exercises, which arent hard to create for oneself after a few months of doing them. Its exercise, thats all. Can’t see what all the nutritional fuss is about – egos and stalinist tendencies at CFHQ?
I had made a few comments on the Crossfit Journal “Understanding the Real Battle.”
They just deleted my most recent one, after it had been there for about 3 days.
It was about how the firings were only about Crossfit HQ protecting their ability to make money off of their own brand name, and controlling the dissemination of information.
That is what I really believe this is about.
There was nothing inflammatory in the post at all. My other posts were much ‘meaner.’
The only reason I can think that they deleted it was because it was spot on.
To comment by Ryan Murakoshi
I have been following this whole black box thing since it happened and I have kept my opinions to myself but dude Ryan you are crazy. Perfect example of a Paleo fanatic. When the world ends in 2012, I’ll be sure to prepare for it by following strict Paleo. Absolutely the most retarded fucking comment I have read in the 18 or so months that I have been doing and following CF. Thanks though cause it gave me a good chuckle
Kade-
Pretty sure that was a joke on Ryan’s part but way to rip him a new asshole. Very neighborly.
Sorry to hear this guys, but I have to admit, if I owned a business and two of my star employees had a fight, and one quietly went away and the other blogged at voracious length about it, throwing out accusations and encouraging personal attacks, I would have done the exact same thing. Wrong or right, by your assessment Dave Castro is ruining Crossfit. The mistake you made was to jump up and down with a blog tantrum about someone who is fully backed and loved by the OWNER of the company you both represent. Rather than thoughtfully take him on, and build a groundswell of consent to get rid of him, the public tantrum just looked really bad and discredited you. Quitting your paid contractual commitments, just over an a-hole, didnt look well either for anyone, you let him get the very best of you. Again, wrong or right, his meltdown was isolated only to a parking lot, and in many peoples mind, it is still a very ‘mysterious’ and murky event. Using this as an opportunity to throw up relatively small gripes and complaints as some sort of proof that “all is not right”, was both cheap and easy.
All I am saying is you could have been a bit more strategic here. Obviously I am an armchair quarterback, and my temper has caused a lot of hurt in my own life of which I regret going over the line with family & friends, losing friends and damaging some close relationships. Let this be a lesson that anger, even well justified, can be best applied with a well thought out approach, or at best careful thinking as to the larger implications rather than rushing to ‘justice.’
Chris-
I’d have to disagree with…well, pretty much everything you said, but I do appreciate the thoughts.
@Dallas: Try Coconut Bliss’ “Mint Galactica” next time. I prefer theirs to Purely Decadent.
Kade, the most?? Really? Have you read anything Greg Glassman has written recently?
I’ve got theories way more mentally challenged then that one. But to call it retarded, well that’s just offensive.
Robb,
Never posted before, but have been a reader of your blog for awhile and am very excited about buying your book once it becomes available.
I thought it ironic that that when I logged onto crossfit.com just now this came up on the left side of the screen where they have the random quotes from different crossfitters:
I have been an avid martial artist for years and was a former state champion PL’r. On my own I had devised a combination of OL’ing, gymnastics, and sprints with good results…but nothing compared to crossfit. I have been studying Capoeira and within the last two weeks I have done for the first time: a back flip, back hand spring, a planche, and a few other odds and ends. On the last work out of the day in which I did a heavy single dead lift I pulled 365 like it was nothing! I am about 165 6-8% BF. My sleep has improved and I generally enjoy my workout much more than I have in years. I could go on and on but this is enough for now.
– Robb Wolf
It looks like that might be in tighter rotation than it used to be…not sure on that. The quote from Mark Twight was also in heightened rotation when he left. Could just be coincidence.
Chris
You are asuming Robb didn’t see this coming down the road. Maybe just Maybe Robb is just a little smarter than you give him credit. Just a Thought.
I agree with Chris and feel what he’s said needs to be heard amongst the blogroll of supportive comments. I’ve appreciated your contributions and had an application pending to host a CF nutrition cert prior to this shitstorm. However it’s deemed highly unprofessional in most of the business world to rant against your former employer. +1 if it’s done publicly and constantly. You feel you were unprofessionally fired but your subsequent actions have been professional?
@Chris, Damon
You two make interesting points, but I wonder if it is easier to look back from outside the situation and critique? At a non-CF sponsored event, an uninvited guest and HQ employee, along with another HQ employee and a contributing member (perhaps lackey) of the CF Journal, shows up and starts a fight. In the midst of this, you were removed from your position (note Robb did not post anything until he was fired) because of your response to an outburst that by all accounts, and not refuted by HQ, was inappropriate by a member of HQ. A similar situation apparently occurred once in the past where Robb was dragged through the mud.
Would you sit there and not say anything? Would you let the organization demean and criticize the work you did? Certainly, I would hope not. You would stand up for what you believe in. You can disagree with the manner in which Robb has publicly presented his side, but I really don’t see how you can disagree with presenting it at all.
One more thought. Mr. Saran posted a “hypothetical” situation in response to someone’s question regarding OPT’s new certification offering. In his response (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=53840&page=2), he argues that company x violates the CF license agreement by disparaging CF and hurting “good will.” As far as I have heard or read, Robb never said anything negative about CF. His frustration (or rant) was directed against the owner of the company who subsequently on the CF.com mainsite and affiliate blog pages questions the qualifications and potentially the integrity of Robb. I would offer for your thoughts, the question of who is hurting the business more? The owner criticizing a fired employee (a human resources nightmare in some states) or the fired employee defending his integrity and reputation? It is not an easy answer particularly when it is placed in the backdrop of what is unprofessional in a given setting.
Sorry to the rest of you who have to slog through my post. Robb, best of luck to you. I will always trust your nutrition info and appreciate the willingness you have to fight for what you believe in.
Now, I wonder how long it will take for Mr. Saran to post something….
Brandon-
They do not appear to post places they can not delete or monitor controversial material. I’ll be damn glad to put all this behind me. Thanks for the long and well reasoned post.
Damon: “However it’s deemed highly unprofessional in most of the business world to rant against your former employer.”
And Glassman is professional in his discourse?
As stated by Robb, the character assasination was inevitable, so he wanted to get his side out lest the momentum swing toward Couch and his usual manipulation of things.
There is back story here that Robb has LIVED that you seem to be missing.
Unfortunate for everyone!
I have attended Greg’s Olympic lifting seminar, and as a member of norcal crossfit have had the privilege of Robb Wolf and Nikki Violette’s coaching. I attended Crossfit Norcal because of the amazing educated staff and direction given by its owners. I also have incredible admiration for Robb and Nikki because of their intelligence and education. Biochemistry was one of the most challenging colleges courses for me in college, so right off from the start I respect Robb as an educated man for his nutrition interpretation and philosophy. This situation is unfortunate because of the passion and respect both Gregg and Robb have for Crossfit. I do believe that both of youguys are highly qualified, and specialized trainers that will rise to the top in this particular situation and any other that are encountered:)
Does anyone else miss Barry Cooper? He adds so much comic relief to all this. I was thinking about it, HQ resembles the 3 stooges. Greg as Moe, Tony as Larry, Dave as Curly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24xYLYcPWYU&feature=related
Barry kinda got his head bit off for asking some simple questions.
Dale Saran Wrote: “Maybe because I’m a lawyer, this seems so obvious and fundamental to me.”
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=711335&postcount=15
Dale Saran Wrote: One of my favorite lines from law school (ever) by a law professor regarding argument:
“Whenever someone says ‘clearly’, or ‘obviously’, or ‘self-evidently’ – everything that follows that is totally unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable. If it weren’t, you wouldn’t need those words.”
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=53744&page=3
—————-
According to Dale, everything in Dale’s explanation regarding deaffiliation that followed the word “obvious” is totally unsubstantiated.
In Dale’s explanation, he ignores that Wolf has done nothing but damage control and try to defend his reputation. He hasn’t taken the low road and published the emails explaining the last time Wolf left Crossfit. He’s simply addressed the lies being told about him by Greg Glassman, Budding, and Saran.
thanks Joe.
Robb,
I think we all saw this coming.
In my opinion this hurts CF’s reputation more than yours. Some will argue that you shouldn’t have publicised the issue the way that you did. I would argue that there has always been a feeling that affiliates cannot disagree with HQ and it’s time someone stood up and was counted.
Best wishes to you and Nikki and NorCal S&C.
I’ll be visiting you when I’m next in your part of the world and you’re always welcome at our box if you make it down under.
Regards, Adam.
@Renee,
I’ll try the Coconut Bliss, if for no other reason than they make a dessert with the word “Galactica” in the name. That’s just over-the-top enough to get my attention. Though, if it’s any better than the Purely Decadent, I might be in trouble 😉 Thanks for the recommendation.
Robb, have you noticed how I’ve ever-so-subtly distracted folks from the un-fun discussion of HQ politics by talking about frozen desserts? 😉
Yea dude, and they made haste in your direction. I nominate you for the next cult leader. This one will be based around ice cream.
I’m in.
“Barry kinda got his head bit off for asking some simple questions.”
Simple questions don’t take up multiple paragraphs and typically don’t start with the phrase “Apopros of Nothing” before the non-stop “simple questioning” begins.
Jon-
True enough. Corrected!
I find this to be incredibly ironic. I have followed CF since early 04′, as well as pointed a lot of people to the site. I did the level-1 certification a few years ago and was a subscriber to the journal for several years. I started getting a weird feeling about the dynamics of the organization after about a year. This feeling intensified with HQ’s treatment of Dan John. This latest episode really clarifies it for me.
I am sure it will be a pain to change stationary, signs, the website etc. To remove all evidence of CF but once that is done and you re-brand hopefully in concert with Greg and maybe some other like minded people all will be well.
You have a lot of support, are widely followed and greatly appreciated for your contributions.
Craig
@brandon
maybe, I may have just sat there for 10 minutes, but I would have immediately began plotting the m-fer’s destruction, either in the organization or just removing that person from my life for good. Just sitting there has its benefits, and anyone of us who do 150 pullups in 15 minutes or slog through a wod is not a coward. All I am saying is that a little strategy behind the revenge would be much more effective.
See what happens when Fidel and the Fuhrer get together? My plans to open an affiliate have now been terminated. CFHQ is ruining a great thing. This is a good thing for Robb and Everett. I’d love to see Black Box Strength and Conditioning Systems become a brand. Then the cream will truely rise. The best would naturally gravitate toward you guys. Hmmm…..a coach with stick arms and a beer gut and Barry Sears or some Legit guru’s? All the best bro!
Ice cream cult? Brilliant! I’ve even got the Catechism right here!
We begin our profession of faith by saying: “I believe” or “We believe”. Before expounding the Church’s faith, as confessed in the Cream, celebrated in the Ice and lived in observance of Ice Cream’s commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what “to believe” means. Faith is man’s response to Ice Cream, which reveals itself and gives itself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life of creaminess.
(I could go on, but I wouldn’t want any roman catholics out there to hate me too much)
CF HQ is running scared!
My comments on the “Asshole Clause” CFJ article pointing out the irony of this move on the heels of that article being posted got yanked.
CFHQ = Censors
Can you feel the open source love?
Robb, let me say in this public forum that my Coconut Cult will learn to quantify their frozen desserts in a very precise manner. Or else. You still in?
dude, it’s ICE CREAM. So long as I can weigh and measure by the litre I’m in. No smaller increments however.
Yeah, BlackBox Fitness has a nice ring to it.
Regardless of the situation you’re undermining your own credibility by taking it public in the way you have. Instead of being known as the Paleo guy you’re going to be the ugly firing/spat with CrossfitHQ nutrition guy. A good part of your customer base has come from Affiliates who will be reluctant to send people to your site so they can see the battle publicly duked out instead of getting great Paleo info. Or even better, the shit sandwich. I can send you to Robb’s site but you’ll have to ignore his newfound derision towards Crossfit. In the long run acting unprofessionally about feeling like you were fired unprofessionally is going to have a much greater impact on you then on HQ.
Damon-
I appreciate the heartfelt concern for my situation. THANK YOU. And if you still think this has anything to do with my firing…you are just lost brother.
I hereby decree that members of my Coconut Cult (“CocoNutties” – thanks Melissa) will quantify their frozen dessert ONLY by the litre. (Robb, I like the way you think.) If you are unable to commit your Dessert Soul to this worthy cause, you will be excommunicated and will bear the title of Dessert Infidel forever more. Jesse, apparently you instilled some potent (read: dangerous) religious fervor in me. Ha.
Greg Glassman and CrossFit can do everything you can do almost as well…except arm wrestling apparently. Where are the clips of the arm wrestler dominating everybody at the Gaymes?
And where are the public results of the drug testing?
As a lawyer I can’t believe Dale Saran is willing to put as much as he is in writing regarding his client’s (aka HQ’s) actions. Most good lawyers I know say less, not more.
Robb, I love your blog and the podcast. Keep on keeping on.
Dallas..you’re speakin my language. Truth be told, since going to Robb’s seminar/cert I cut out all bread, pasta, beans, cookies, chips etc…but I didn’t give up ice cream. Strict Paleo all day..a little ice cream at night. It’s almost like this shit works. Robb, you’re the man…Dallas, Ben and Jerry’s Coffee Heath Bar Crunch is what’s up.
Their loss and big one at that….reputation precedes all and the lustre is fading fast….Good luck Robb. Thanks for all you do for the fitness and health professional out here!
Maybe I should have mentioned, by following this pseudo science I went from 250 lbs to 215 lbs, tri’s from 260 to 90. What the hell does Robb know?
Dave-
I know Nothing. I make all this up. My education is a sham. I’m not even male, my real name is Roberta.
Run while you can.
Chris wrote:
“Sorry to hear this guys, but I have to admit, if I owned a business and two of my star employees had a fight, and one quietly went away and the other blogged at voracious length about it, throwing out accusations and encouraging personal attacks, I would have done the exact same thing.”
Then you would be as foolish as CFHQ. As was discussed in the original thread about Robb being “fired”, Dave Castro created a hostile work environment, physically assaulted an affiliate, and acted unprofessionally while representing the company. Both Federal and California law requires them to do a proper investigation to make sure that such incidents do not happen again, (which would generally include firing Mr. Castro based on the copious witness statements). Rather, they “fired” Robb from his personal services contract and now deaffiliated both he and Gregg, (the two victims of Dave’s assault).
Given the underlying situation, and CFHQ’s refusal to take any appropriate action against Mr. Castro, not only is their firing of Robb likely illegal, but their deaffiliation clearly indicates that they are now willing to punish anyone who speaks out about their illegal actions. A jury would eat this stuff up. I believe a court would likely issue a restraining order preventing CFHQ from deaffiliating either gym based on the facts stated on these boards.
Specifically, Robb hasn’t said CF is bad…..Robb hasn’t been telling people to go to a different company…..(as the CF lawyer paraphrased), rather Robb has said that CF ownership and management are making a lot of bad decisions since this incident. He is talking about the individuals making bad decisions, not disparaging the brand. As one of the victims of Mr. Castro, he certainly has a 1st Amendment right to speak out about such, and given CFHQ’s refusal to even investigate Mr. Castro’s actions as required by law, such critiques appear well grounded.
(Which is why I am really hoping he will share the affiliate license and deaffiliation notice with me), because I would love to see CF try to explain to a judge how this is a “fair” business decision based on denigrating the brand rather than retaliation for his truthful and accurate portrayal of the shortcomings of the management team.
Chris continued with:
“The mistake you made was to jump up and down with a blog tantrum about someone who is fully backed and loved by the OWNER of the company you both represent. Rather than thoughtfully take him on, and build a groundswell of consent to get rid of him, the public tantrum just looked really bad and discredited you.”
Problem here Chris, Glassman does not OWN CF. CF Inc. owns the brand, Glassman may own the majority of shares of the company, but due to the decision to operate the business as a corporation, that means he has to follow a host of laws about how the business is managed and operated. One of those obligations, under both state and federal law, is to assure a violence free work place. The fact that Glassman may “love” Castro, SHOULD be over-ridden by his legal duty to the associates, employees, clients, and authorities, (though this clearly has not happened). So while you may believe that Robb has been discredited, to anyone who has any business or human resource training, experience or knowledge, this situation, and the horrendous choices the management team continues to make, has pretty much completely discredited CF Inc., as being a well managed and run enterprise.
Chris continued with:
“Using this as an opportunity to throw up relatively small gripes and complaints as some sort of proof that “all is not right”, was both cheap and easy.”
So let me get this straight. You are saying that having been threatened with physical violence, watching a friend actually be physcially assaulted, and “being fired” for objecting to these illegal actions when the company refuses to even investigate, (let alone punish), the perpetrator, constitutes “relatively small gripes and complaints”? Geez, Dude, what are you smokin?
Further, how is this cheap? Robb is the one losing the money. I don’t know how much money, but he wasn’t giving up 3 weekends a month and flying all over the world for peanuts. “Easy”. I guess it is “easy” for you to complain from your cumfy sofa chair. You were not the victim of the assault nor witness to it. I suspect you might have a very different view were the roles reversed.
Dave-
If you have the time to write this much on my blog you had better be in the gym 5 times this week…
Chris wrote:
“Sorry to hear this guys, but I have to admit, if I owned a business and two of my star employees had a fight, and one quietly went away and the other blogged at voracious length about it, throwing out accusations and encouraging personal attacks, I would have done the exact same thing.”
Then you would be as foolish as CFHQ. As was discussed in the original thread about Robb being “fired”, Dave Castro created a hostile work environment, physically assaulted an affiliate, and acted unprofessionally while representing the company. Both Federal and California law requires them to do a proper investigation to make sure that such incidents do not happen again, (which would generally include firing Mr. Castro based on the copious witness statements). Rather, they “fired” Robb from his personal services contract and now deaffiliated both he and Gregg, (the two victims of Dave’s assault).
Given the underlying situation, and CFHQ’s refusal to take any appropriate action against Mr. Castro, not only is their firing of Robb likely illegal, but their deaffiliation clearly indicates that they are now willing to punish anyone who speaks out about their illegal actions. A jury would eat this stuff up. I believe a court would likely issue a restraining order preventing CFHQ from deaffiliating either gym based on the facts stated on these boards.
Specifically, Robb hasn’t said CF is bad. Robb hasn’t been telling people to go to a different company, (as the CF lawyer paraphrased), rather Robb has said that CF ownership and management are making a lot of bad decisions since this incident. He is talking about the individuals making bad decisions, not disparaging the brand. As one of the victims of Mr. Castro, he certainly has a 1st Amendment right to speak out about such, and given CFHQ’s refusal to even investigate Mr. Castro’s actions as required by law, such critiques appear well grounded.
(Which is why I am really hoping he will share the affiliate license and deaffiliation notice with me), because I would love to see CF try to explain to a judge how this is a “fair” business decision based on denigrating the brand rather than retaliation for his truthful and accurate portrayal of the shortcomings of the management team.
Chris continued with:
“The mistake you made was to jump up and down with a blog tantrum about someone who is fully backed and loved by the OWNER of the company you both represent. Rather than thoughtfully take him on, and build a groundswell of consent to get rid of him, the public tantrum just looked really bad and discredited you.”
Problem here Chris, Glassman does not OWN CF. CF Inc. owns the brand, Glassman may own the majority of shares of the company, but due to the decision to operate the business as a corporation, that means he has to follow a host of laws about how the business is managed and operated. One of those obligations, under both state and federal law, is to assure a violence free work place. The fact that Glassman may “love” Castro, SHOULD be over-ridden by his legal duty to the associates, employees, clients, and authorities, (though this clearly has not happened). So while you may believe that Robb has been discredited, to anyone who has any business or human resource training, experience or knowledge, this situation, and the horrendous choices the management team continues to make, has pretty much completely discredited CF Inc., as being a well managed and run enterprise.
Chris continued with:
“Using this as an opportunity to throw up relatively small gripes and complaints as some sort of proof that “all is not right”, was both cheap and easy.”
So let me get this straight. You are saying that having been threatened with physical violence, watching a friend actually be physcially assaulted, and “being fired” for objecting to these illegal actions when the company refuses to even investigate, (let alone punish), the perpetrator, constitutes “relatively small gripes and complaints”? Geez, Dude, what are you smokin?
Further, how is this cheap? Robb is the one losing the money. I don’t know how much money, but he wasn’t giving up 3 weekends a month and flying all over the world for peanuts. “Easy”. I guess it is “easy” for you to complain from your cumfy sofa chair. You were not the victim of the assault nor witness to it. I suspect you might have a very different view were the roles reversed.
If you started your own brand I bet they wouldn’t accept an open compitition with your athletes lol.
Just when I was thinking about going to a cert! Man I guess I have to think for myself.
Ricky-
Thinking for yourself can get you fired. Use caution.
Did you hear Castro’s comment on the Black Box Summit on the latest CrossFit Radio episode?
No, did not. I’m sure it’s witty.
Will all those individuals who mention how they stumbled upon the truth and had their comments censored when they posted it at sites like CF Journal or the CF Message Board please retype them here instead of just mentioning they got censored? Like, I want to know.
I listened to Castro on Xfit Radio. If you download the file, it’s at the 45 minute mark at the end of the show. He says he had a great time at the Black Box Summit. Jeremy was a great host. The highlight was the dinner on Saturday Night and the two workouts that Jeremy put together with his coaches.
That was it. Total dick tuck and didn’t bother to own up to his meltdown. Castro is a coward.
Something has really been bugging me, and I think I figured out what it is. I know several affiliates that recommend paleo before zone, and wouldn’t dream of following the main page programming. The problem simply can’t be that you tout paleo and lots of heavy lifting. Plenty of others do that and don’t seem to have issues with HQ.
What is the difference between an affiliate using different programming and nutrition guidelines, and someone who is rejected and has their character assassinated? I’m getting the feeling that the reason this crap has happened, to you and others, isn’t that your training is different. It’s that you’re a high profile member of the community who isn’t afraid to say that you are getting better results doing something other than “pure CrossFit,” whatever that’s supposed to be. I’m looking from the outside in, I’ll admit, but it seems to be a common thread running through all those that have fallen out of favor with Glassman, et al. An affiliate can do what they want, but if someone who is highly visible begins to openly question the system for some reason they become “bad coaches who can’t squat” or their systems are complete “pseudoscience.” Volume under a curve, though, that’s a real science breakthrough, dammit.
Sorry for the ramble, but I feel like HQs true business model has begun to show. I could be totally off, but this is the only explanation that makes sense to me.
Mel-
I think that is spot on.
Damon:
What you are advocating is that Robb adhere to “a code of silence.” Many abusive organizations operate under such a code. Robb has elected to break free of that code; it can’t be easy for him to take this stand given how much time he has invested in CrossFit and his obvious, considerable and enduring love of the CrossFit community.
I was thinking about this situation and considering view points like yours and asking myself if they had any validity, but something about those viewpoints make me very uneasy. While thinking this through from all sides the term “code of silence” popped into my head and I did a bit of goggling and found this EXCELLENT, albeit long, article that I recommend you read that sums up quite well the dynamics at play here:
http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/AssemblyTeachingPractice/CodeOfSilence.htm
There are so many parallels between what is happening in this situation and the experiences of those in that article it is freaky.
Look at how Barry was treated when he spoke out and did his best to build bridges between all parties. He is a true believer and his heart was in the right place; I suspect right now he is going through a bit of a crisis because of his faith.
Ganine-
I AM in love.
Rob- You are the man! Dave Castro is a total tool, and we all know it! enough said, keep doing what your doing!
Ganine, are you referring to Barry Cooper, and if so, how was he treated? Hadn’t heard.
Thx.
FB-
Barry asked some questions and was threatened with banning. it was a bit of a shock for him.
Ganine
I read the Code of Silence link and I must say it hits the nail right on the head. All those at the CrossFit Forum who validated the Code of Silence are being put in Moderation Mode. This allows the Moderators to control those Code of Silence Breakers from speaking up. It is worst than being banned because only my words which seem supportive of CFHQ are allowed to be posted in the forum. This gives an illusion that I support the actions of abuse handed out by CFHQ.
I rather be banned than Moderated, so I told the Enforcers of the Code Of Silence (the Focking Moderators) to close my Account. The Code of Silence has allowed CrossFit to become a Cult with the Glassmans as the spiritual leaders of the Cult.
In a Cult the Silence must be Enforced so nothing can slow down the cash being funneled to the Cult leaders. The Cert course held by the CFQH funnels multi-millions of dollars into the Glassmans pockets every year. These funds come from CrossFit Cult followers who paid a $1,000 each for level 1 and level 2 Cert courses. The Revenue from these Level 1 and Level 2 are not shared with the hosting affiliated. Why? Is it because in a Cult all profits must go to the spiritual leaders?
Robb and Greg were made examples of what can and will happen to any affiliate who dares to speak up or hold their own courses. You will be excommunicated; Anyone that threatens even one penny of the level 1 and 2 Cert money being totally funneled to the spiritual leaders of CrossFit must be casted out of the cult.
I also post this at http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?p=67429&posted=1#post67429
I meant violated and validated LOL
Not validated
Merry Christmas!
I turned in my affiliate. Off the main page in 4 days…new record. Also, my posts are being moderated when I never caused any problems in the public forums and tried to stay professional in affiliate blogs. Now, I am getting a little pissed.
Hey Dallas Hartwig….ur meal plan is awesome. I am having to feed my body constantly, and i have been bonking out in wods because I m not getting enough food before a workout. I eat wat i think is enough but i feel like a V8 big block wth a quarter tank of gas when i start working out… wat is ur pre wod meal like? Does anybody else have their diet dialed in? i need help big time. I hope u can give me some good advice or at least point me in the right direction. Robb…ur input would be very helpful to! Thanks.
Hey Robb, just want to say first that I’m a huge fan of what you do and the results that you’re providing to everyone. This website is an awesome resource that I really enjoy visiting. But I just want to provide a little unbiased opinion.
It seems that you’re putting HQ in between a rock and a hard place here. On one hand, after hearing nothing official from the BB summit, and hadn’t even heard a personal word from Glassman himself, you were upset at them for a) trying to put Castro’s behavior under the rug by not showing/destroying videos, b) not giving you a reason for your removal and C) not hearing any word from Greg himself. But when they do speak up and Coach responds to your messages on the affiliate boards, and removing your affiliation, it becomes character assassination? Well which would you prefer, to keep this whole thing under the table, or to have an article/video about the subject to explain to everyone? For them it becomes damned if you do/damned if you don’t.
I’d also have to agree with a couple other people here who mentioned that these blogs have gotten too unprofessional. I think it’s something that needed to be said, but it was said poorly. Very basically, you and HQ are taking very different approaches to nutrition for human performance. I think identifying the problems, and moving more to the positive aspects of what you’re going to do away from HQ would be more civil and appropriate. Right now it seems like your parents just got a divorce and now it’s a media battle for public opinion. Which really hurts the community and I think that’s a shame. Can 2 separate establishments cater to the same community? Absolutely and I hope that’s what’s going to be able to happen.
Meanwhile, rock on with the nutrition stuff, I love it. Congrats with the paleobrands, and I hope to make it to one of your certs one day!
Joe-
the problem here is that Glassman is lying about me. If they ae between a rock and and hard place it is bacause of their own doing.
Joe, I’ve got to say that’s a weird perspective. There was a third option open to HQ all along, in between “ignore everything” and “be gigantic assholes” – they could actually have “sorted the situation out properly”. You know, doing stuff like talking to Castro and telling him to wind his neck in; saying something brief like “yes there was an incident at the BBS; yes we’re sorting it out; no it’s not something we condone”; and not then telling out and out lies about people.
The differences in opinion on nutrition or training shouldn’t be any kind of issue. Glassman has repeatedly said – over the course of many years – that he welcomes different viewpoints and wants to take the best of everything he finds. He’s commented enough times in the CF forums that he wants to encourage people to think and question and try things out. Problem is, when someone finds something that actually works better, he hates it because he didn’t think of it first. Look back over the forums there are incidents in there from years ago that shed light on this (e.g. when it was pointed out that athletes needed more strength he tried to claim that CF had always had a real strength emphasis, despite Greg Everett showing data that directly contradicted this).
I don’t see either Robb or Greg spitting the dummy about this stuff. Greg Everett gets pissed off with the crap O-lifting form that gets through (and rightly so, given the potential for injury and the basic inefficiency of doing an exercise badly) but it’s not like he didn’t sing CF’s praises; he just tried to fix the bad parts. Robb seems to me to be pretty moderate and always just says “this is what I think; try it for a month and see how you look, feel and perform”; and again he’s promoted CF pretty well.
Glassman, and CFHQ in general, talk the talk about seeking opinions from elsewhere but the string of SME’s left disgruntled in CF’s wake tells a different story.
Sorry, I’m not having a go at you Joe – I guess I’d wanted to say some of that anyway and it was just an opportunity to get it out.
Oh what a tangled web we weave.
What surprises me is how surprised we all are by this. To act like Coach Glassman was a saint that put up dot-com to give free fitness to the needy masses and feed starving children in Africa, without any thought of himself, is ridiculous. He is an unbelievably savvy salesman. Do any of you doubt that if you ran into Greg Glassman on a car lot, you’d walk away with a set of keys in your hands? Sure, he might give you a free cup of coffee while you wait, but his eye is on the prize. And… what’s wrong with that right? He’s an exceptional salesman with an exceptional product. I don’t think any of us would fault him for taking his talent and making money with it.
He knew dot-com workouts would change people’s fitness and through those results he would build trust. He knew “giving the workouts away” for free would build trust. Then, like a smart salesman, he let that trust build. He let his legacy build. This is where he really showed his talent to me… his patience. 99% of the people I see trying to stake their claim on fortune through the internet are too eager. They jump in with their sales pitch too soon.
But Glassman was patient. He wined and dined us. He waited for the tipping point and when it came he unleashed his plan with accuracy and precision. And like a hunter stalking a prey I would imagine that there was quite a bit of satisfaction that came with the capture… quite a bit of pride… quite a sense of power.
But at some point he misjudged his power. He thought he had CF Inc built into a stage where he could pull the strings and make people jump & dance. The problem is that of a double-edged sword, by it’s nature, Crossfit attracts those that see beyond glitz, glamor and bullshit… it attracts those that want something REAL and are disciplined enough to go after it, whatever it takes.
And that’s what all initially led us here, is it not?
I believe what Glassman banked on was that his vision of Crossfit would be the endpoint for people on their fitness journey and not merely the jumping off point that it’s become for so many of us. We found the drug of Crossfit, but now we want more. “What if I go heavier on this wod? What if I cut out dairy? What if I get better at the OLY lifts? What if I can go deeper down this rabbit hole?”
To us, this was still Crossfit. It all fell within the confines of broad & inclusive fitness: The addition of a dedicated strength routine. Eating for quality first and then quantity. We’ve treated our bodies as labs, constantly experimenting with a means to bring our fitness to the next level. Little did we realize we were rocking the boat and making Glassman extremely uncomfortable. Salesman Glassman’s guaranteed cash cow is only that if it remains distinguishable as his original creation – it’s the only thing he can stake legal claim on. If we go muddying the waters, creating our own crossfit, then that’s what it becomes… our own brand of fitness… and that is worth NOTHING to Glassman.
Here we were, thinking we were adding to our Crossfit experience, because we hadn’t linked it to financial gain, but only individual gain through self-improvement. Silly, non-greedy us.
What I can’t figure out is if Glassman knew that this whole thing would become bigger then him and maybe that’s why he’s trying to push as many people as possible through his money making system as often as possible, so he can build his bank. Or does he really believe he will maintain control over this?
What OPT is doing is not Glassman’s brand of Crossfit. It is OPT’s brand. How many of us have created our own brand of fitness through experimenting with the framework of Glassman’s brand of Crossfit and added our own touches to it? How many of us are seeing success with it beyond what we were seeing before? I would guess that there are more and more of us that don’t “need” Crossfit Inc, but hang on to our affiliations out of respect for the original idea of crossfit and love of the community. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that as long as the person we’re ultimately supporting is worthy of our support and right now… well… the true test of a man’s character is how he responds, NOT when everything is right with the world, but when there is opposition in it. Glassman is failing the test. As my father would say… “he has really shit in his nest.”
Crossfit Inc. will either find some humility, realize that their fortune and legacy is at stake if they don’t make some significant changes (yes Robb, I imagine you just got a chuckle out of that), or it will continue to deteriorate. I think I’ve made the decision that many of us have made, and that’s to wait and see and to keep a close watch while having an exit plan in place should it be needed. And most importantly, to not forget what’s happened here.
I also wholeheartedly believe the crossfit community will live on regardless. It is too good and too strong not too. Robb, I believe you ARE an awesome part of this community and I believe VERY few (outside of HQ) would be in disagreement with that.
But still… with all of that said, it’s all a bit like finding out Santa Claus isn’t real. Dammit.
I jut want to say that I love you and Nikki. The both of you have helped me with my diet and because of what you recommended my health problems have gone away—-after 3 years . Soooo…..I will forever be grateful for your brilliance and I say Forge on!! I support you Robb. Much love and respect xoxox
Shari-
YOU are awesome girl. I miss seeing you SC kidds. Big love to you and the whole crew.
“But still… with all of that said, it’s all a bit like finding out Santa Claus isn’t real. Dammit.”
Hello, from Kingman, AZ. I also feel that i was just told that Santa Claus isn’t real. I don’t want to believe that CrossFit is the Devil and not the ultimate fitness plan. I thought that my search was over. i found the ultimate diet (paleo) + gary taubes and I never have to read another diet book. I also thought that my long search for the perfect training system was done and I would never have to read another book on fitness. But alas, have I been fooled? Who’s WOD’s should I follow now? Who has the best workouts to follow? I’m still good on the nutrition (Robb Wolf nutrition certified), but would like to follow the best workouts. Any suggestions? Thanks, Coach David
OPT? CF FootBall? Coach Rut? Soooo muh good stuff out there, just needs some exploration.
David,
CF Football WODs are legit. Really F*&king Heavy, but legit!
well…after all of this, Robb has photos on his FB clearly with CF personas, people sporting CF attire, and gyms clearly of the CF nature with tagged dates of 2010 and beyond. Did ya’ll kiss and make up, or are you still trying to figure out who has the bigger dick?
Bill- is that “who has” or “who is”?
2 years later:
NYT Best Selling Author
Discovery Channel Star
Man, that sounds so much better than a list of “certifications”. 🙂