Well, I’d hoped this CrossFit situation would simmer down but HQ is between a rock and a hard place. People are demanding some kind of action regarding Dave Castro but HQ is, as ever, completely unwilling to admit any type of fault. So they are finally offering some commentary on why I was let go and the basic theme is that I used the cert as a promotional opportunity for Paleo Brands and that I have no clinical or scientific background! Here are links from the CFJ (comment 101 and beyond is the meaty stuff) and the Affiliate blog. This was my initial response to Greg Glassman regarding his first post:
I appreciate the statement, although tardy. A few clarifications are in order before putting this whole matter to rest.
1-The seminar I provided was 50% food quality, 50% weighing and measuring. I have nearly 50 complete certs worth of video to prove this point. The 2500+ attendees of the cert can validate this point. My contention has been that food quality is the most important issue. HQ disagrees on this point. I have thousands of data points on this topic that I have collected over the past 5 years. We will see those data sets in a formalized setting in the coming months. I have ALWAYS recommended (look back to the 2003 archives for example) starting with a paleo/quality approach first, then weigh and measure for best effect. What we have seen however are numerous examples of people abandoning Zone proportionality and lack of quality emphasis, and seeing dramatic improvements. Coach Glassman conveniently ignores this information. That’s no longer my concern as I am not a member of HQ and thus not obliged to attempt to fix its shortcomings.
I also apparently have a lack of clinical experience and scientific training! Remarkable. Apparently my CV was poorly circulated at HQ.
2-Coach Glassman is alluding that this is all a PR/marketing stunt to push Paleo Brands. That my insistence on food quality is something new. This is remarkable given my YEARS of consistent message on this topic. NewSpeak lives apparently. This also sounds remarkably similar to when CF NorCal left CrossFit several years ago in a protest of practices endemic to HQ. Our departure changed nothing (as evidenced by the Black Box Summit) but numerous people in CF were told we left to “Join Mark Twight and Gym Jones”. This is straight out of the same playbook.
3-It is ironic given Coach Glassman’s disdain for academia that MD’s and PHD’s mean “quality” or “competence”. An interesting and timely paradigm shift.
I want to make clear that my copyrighted material (the stuff not based on clinical or scientific experience) is NOT to be used at future CF Nutrition certs. It WAS used at the last event despite my communications that it is not to be used.
Off to practice Pseudo-Science and delude the masses…
Glassman then posted his followup comment about insulin/aldosterone/sodium, implying that my seminar lacked substantive content. Interestingly, the pathophysiology of hypertension has been a feature of each cert. Check out the attached video:
Bereft of Science? from CrossFit NorCal on Vimeo.
What is intriguing is they never address what attendees actually GOT from the cert. Were people able to go back to their respective practices and do good work? Were they better at meal planning and helping ANYONE who needed help? From the comments on this blog and the CF message board it would appear I was very successful in helping people. So, despite the attempts at discrediting me, I think folks see through this.
I had a feeling they would begin a character assassination on me because this is exactly what they did when I left CrossFit in the past. I’ll be looking at the character of Greg Glassman and why I previously left CF in subsequent posts.
BTW-
If HQ would like to sponsor a public debate or competition between myself and Barry Sears, I’m game. Any metabolic pathway, any piece of material from general, organic, bio or physical chemistry. Let’s see who knows what. CF is all about competition, let’s do it.
Glassman is such a wreck. He has really jumped the shark.
Billy
Robb,
Key point, that #3. Anyone who actually practices, keeps up with the journals and walks the talk can see that you are the real deal.
You are educating on information that is over due to be heard. All drama aside, you are providing a valuable service. Thanks for enduring! ~j
Unbelievable….
Well no, actually, it’s completely believable given HQ’s pattern of behavior. Keep fighting the good fight.
You Robb, I think about all the data, the thought provoking opinion and data that I received from you and this sight (all at no cost to me) and I’m at a loss for why someons would even attempt charactarize your intents as commercial, other than grasping at straws.
With that said, let me thank you for all that. This CF scism has come at a most oportune time for me (avoided an attempt to tow the CF banner for a living). Your reasoned and insightful commentary and information as well as your open and scientific standards live up to what glassman parades around as, but fails to achieve.
Great, here comes Barry Cooper. Lets just get it over with…Barry, STFU.
chris
you’re awesome.
You should create an item at Paleo Brands called the “Greg Glassman.” It could be a turd zone-bar, cause that guy is full of shit.
wow…soooo disillusioned with what cfhq has done in the past couple weeks
Sorry quick point I’d like to add…
“The difficult thing about sputtering infantile rage as a business tactic is that it serves no winnable strategy.”
from Glassman’s response under the cert comments…
Do you think he gives this same advice to Castro?
Thor-
This is “possibly” a double standard.
Love it! Excellent idea for the debate. I read/listen to all your work, Robb, and I’m excited about what you’re doing. I’m a huge supporter of CrossFit, and I’m disappointed where this has gone, but I think HQ is making a big mistake with all this. Thanks for what you do.
Mike
Whoa.
Wolff vs. Sears. I’d pay-per-view that!
I would pay to see that debate.
Ohhh. Debate! That would be awesome.
After reading about this situation, and wasting a touch more time than what I should have, strictly out of my admiration and love for the community, I think it pertinant to express a point or two.
Recently, I atended a 101 lecture at CF legacy in Akron Ohio. I currently own and operate Practice CrossFit and travel giving motivational, and nutritional speeches throughout the country with IFBB competitior Chastity Slone. I was not at the BB summit so I will not try to speak intelligently about the goings on in anyway.
However, at the recent CF 101 Coach addressed this entire situation of which I was privey to the entire speech. He spoke incredibly well of Rob, never once calling into question his character or any such advance. He was clearly suprised about the entire situation. Furthermore, he was rather postiive with his descriptive nature of Rob, elluding to the fact that Ro has left before, and that he has taken him back before. I saw a man who cleary wants no part of this argument. To me, he seems to want to make people better at life, and to generally just be happy.
As for Dave. Ive met Dave a couple times, and personnally I like the guy. I find the passion he has for CrossFit refreshing. In a world with one-trick ponys it seems that certain CFers seem to get pissed off when our pond keeps getting bigger and bigger and they can’t be quite as big a fish anymore. The goal is spread our word positivly, and help others. If I was Dave I would of been pissed to, and anyone not there has no real right to judge any reaction he has, and if your honest with yourself, I doubt most take direct insults to well and may have reacted quickly as well.
I apologive as I really have not had alot of time to dedicate to reading about the situation so I may have missed some points somewhere, and I can imagine someone will correct me very quickly, as thats what blogger-badasses do while comfortably seated behind a computer.
As for the comments Tony posted under 101…I could not imagined it to be said better or more astutely. I would have to say I agree with Tony on every level I could. I too could not be prouder to be part of this community, and will continue to do all I can just to try in some small way to tell Coach Glassman thanks for all he has done. This includes representing the name CrossFit with the utmost respect it deserves.
I close with a disheartening feel over how the loyalty of some are no greater than the next bandwagon that arrives at their doorstep. Coach Glassman deserves a monumental amount of respect for what he has created and offered, and given so unconditionally. For those so willing to criticize…what exactly have you done with your lives, and how many strangers have you helped?
Josh-
I wish my video from the Black Box summit would see the light of day. I spent a significant amount of time singing the praises of Coach Glassman. All i cna tell you is there is SIGNIFICANT back story here.
Robb,
What follows is my post on the CF Journal segment with Castro’s latest video. As I say in this post I will emphasize, this rift has NOTHING to do with the content of your Cert. which I attended and can attest that your comments today are accurate. I can also say as an MD myself, there are NO physicians who have the training to rival your knowledge or experience in nutritional science!! It has everything to do with you, Greg. and others calling HQ out on the quality of their training and the quality of the affiliates that are being “mass-produced”. You threaten the “cash cow” and you must be eliminated. Its almost “mafia-like”. Here was my post (which btw was ignored by Budding, he’s too busy “blowing smoke” about nutrition differences….nonsense):
“I really think the issue is not about Zone vs Paleo, low back squat vs high back squat, shrug in the clean vs no shrug but about the “commercialization” of a fitness movement. In order to take this message to the masses and maximize profits, inevitable compromises have been made. Disagree if you want, but training several 100 Level 1’s per weekend and “sending them out” to forge elite fitness has consequences. The individualized training that human beings require can ONLY come through a broad and often evolving training knowledge and protocol and years of hands on training.
I admit that I have never been the type of Crossfitter that just “did the HQ WODs” and one particular commenter on the HQ Mainsite reinforced this lack of individualized approach to me when he said, “dude, just shut up and do the wod, don’t think about it, just do it”.
Most of the CrossFit folks I’ve met DO think about what they are doing and why, and I believe that is precisely why these issues have emerged. There is a disconnect between those interested in taking this fitness model to the masses and making massive profits with the inherent compromises, and those interested in the individualized approach and ever evolving methods, drawing from many excellent resources from inside and outside the CrossFit community.
I will continue to love and believe in this community and have the utmost respect for everyone I’ve met and trained with at the 4 Certs/Events I’ve attended; however, don’t think for a second that the business aspect and inevitable consequences on profit of all of this has not impacted the events leading up to this video. The main concern I have going forward for CrossFit HQ is a question of credibility, and that is often difficult to correct.”
In my opinion, the main issue here is that you and others threaten the “mass output” of low quality CrossFit trainers and affiliates which is hugely profitable, NOT what you did or did not teach in your Cert!
Do you agree?
Jacob-
We had issues of quality and sustainable growth when there were like 20 affiliates. Many good people have been chased out for suggesting a focus on quality. Be it food, or training.
Even though Glassman has had a few weeks to figure out how to handle this situation, he’s come up with a strategy that’s clearly going to backfire on him. He’s actually suggesting that the black box summit had nothing to do with firing Wolf. That doesn’t even pass a laugh test.
Man.. I love you both (Wolf and Glassman)! Though I have not chatted with Greg in years, I’m a bit of a pussy when picking sides, so I just won’t. But, you have my support if wanted or needed, one hundred percent, akin to the last time yall parted ways. You need articles, reagents, or fancy equipment… my lab is yours, my fingers are yours (for typing that is… gosh, you big perv). Stay positive, low stress. Sperm don’t like cortisol or its minions, and IMHO, you should impregnate that lovely wife of yours stat (if she agrees of course!.
I heart Robb Wolf. Don’t tell my husband.
Cynthia
Robb,
Here’s a kudos to you: Through ALL the years of schooling that I have had, undergraduate and Master’s level postgrad classes, NONE of those classes held my interest and taught me as much as your CF Nutrition course did. Your manner of teaching is impeccable, your approach the science of food AS IT SHOULD BE, and you did not in any way push Paleo, simply because you barely mentioned it and gave 95% emphasis on food quality and measuring. Most of us attending your Cert already KNEW about anything Paleo related and if anything, the course was much more comparable to The Diabetic Diet which, yes, let’s hear it, how many adults have Type II onset? That’s what I thought. I’ll say it again — your brain and knowledge is a gift to CF. Or was.
Wait… let me get this straight…. Glassman is accusing you of suggesting dietary guidelines that aren’t measurable enough???
You mean… kind of like a workout program with no logical progression… you know… just a bunch of random shit thrown together?
HE is also questioning your scientific credentials? Fuck! he doesn’t have enough credentials to get a job at Gold’s Gym.
That guy can talk a line of bullshit like nobody I’ve ever met. Seriously. What a fucking liar.
Zach
Zach-
I was going to point out the tiny inconsistency…thanks for hitting that for me.
Robb,
It is disappointing to see all this going on. While I respect your right to defend any attack against your character, be the better man and don’t go attacking Glassman’s (or anyone at HQ’s) character. When all this settles down, people stop talking, and everyone goes on living, people are just going to think back to what sort of character was shown. I know you haven’t yet, but don’t write any posts attacking others. I feel you’ve been fair in this so far…stay that way. Let this die, go succeed, and live happily. Those that follow CF blindly will continue to do so, and those that follow you blindly with continue to do so, and those of us who make their own choices with continue to do so. We will take all the information and apply it to our training and the training of our clients. Just keep being the awesome provider of useful information and you will be successful and flourish.
Ed-
Good advice…I’ll do my best to heed it.
Robb –
Keep doing what you’re doing. HQ or not, I will always come to your blog (and book, soon enough) for nutritional information over any other source. (although I’ve gotta give props to Mark Sisson).
The way CFHQ has handled this entire situation has basically eliminated what respect I had left for the CrossFit brand. They claim their concern is the pursuit of the greatest physical fitness and supplying their trainers with the best information possible. I believe their actions are completely incongruous with those goals. Not to mention firing you, but ostracizing those at Catalyst Athletics, and going on “Certifying” four or five hundred people a month with PVC pipes and medicine balls and effectively releasing them on to the public in order to “Forge elite fitness”? Give me a fucking break. With Castro leading the charge it is only a matter of time before CFHQ has no credibility left at all.
Robb
Well at least they made an official statement and now I know I will never spend any more money that helps CFHQ earn a profit. I will not renew my CF Journal subscription or take any of their certs.
Why?
Because they broke their trust with me and I cannot trust anything they say anymore. CFHQ will say or do anything that helps increase their profits whether or not it helps their clients or affiliates.
But Robb you have earned my trust thus I will gladly pay for your books, DVDs or any of your Seminars.
Robb,
This is atrocious. You should feel lucky to part company with that unprofessional lot. Please do not lower yourself to a debate or competition, as there is nothing for you to prove in my eyes. I cannot wait to read your book!
Best regards & seasons’ greetings,
Chris
Aw snap. I think coach bit the big one this time. Video and screenshots can really put light on a situation. I am starting to get the feeling that you are Gracie Jiu Jitsu circa early nineties and CrossFit is the WWF. I bet the farm they don’t have the balls to take your challenge.
After hosting the nutrition cert at our affiliate, I saw increased performance, people who had attended gave great advice to those who hadn’t, and the positive effects spread like a wave through the affiliate and the members’ families. Thanks for staying true to what works. If anyone is turning hypocrite to do business, it’s the people putting Sears’ videos up.
Bring the noise ! We are behind you Robb.
Robb –
You’ve got my support, this whole situation is amazing to me. I love my CrossFit gym (CFSW) and would follow them no matter what, I am grateful to CrossFit for helping me find them and helping me find your website. Thanks again for all you are doing.
Trish
I would still love to see these videos, any word on them Robb? Why doesnt HQ just post them and let everyone see what happened and if castro was indeed being a twat 🙂
Norm-
That is the property of the Black Box folks…no idea on their status.
Stay after it, Robb! You are a prophet. Can’t wait till you go live with the “uncensored” nutrition seminars. I’ll be at the first one within striking distance of Northern Virginia!
Robb,
I second the notion of a run off to determine what’s what. I started zone, felt weak, and skinny then found your website and went paleo to satisfaction. My gains were better along all the pathways. Keep up the great work and I’m looking forward to the book (I’ve held off on buying “the primal blueprint” b/c I would like to read yours first! The only question now is, who’s going to vilify Rip for tell people to eat food to get 70s Big?
Go get em’ Robb. Us paleo eaters on Oahu got your back and thanks again for the absolutely wonderful nutrition cert.
It’s a shame with all the HQ bullshit, man. It’s their loss.
Hmmm. There isn’t a chance that “The Zone” is an outlet for Dr. Spears to sell his books, pasta, bars, pancakes, or whatever the fuck. Perhaps this coupling is a chance at a marketing merger. I think Spears is going to end up getting torn apart by the horses on this one. Which is unfortunate because he can help a lot of people begin a pathway to a better life.
I want tickets to that debate. I think it’s all a crock of shit, I’ve gone through years of nutritional training by degreed professors from licensed institues for years, and still managed to learn more, and be able to help more people with the information that I gathered at your then CF cert. My personal results, and the results of my gym and clients has never been better. And this is all thanks to your unscientific, pull it out of your ass, sound biological nutritional FACTS!!
I agree with Edward. Don’t play down to CF HQ with personal attacks. Focus on your book…..
and sue for any copyright infringement.
Crossposting from http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/2009/12/monday_091207.html
“Mr. Glassman,
You say the following:
“It’s just that instead of using a guy who “claims” to have gone to medical school and claims to have dropped out we’ve got guys who went, finished, and can prove it.”
That is tantamount to the person who “invents” Crossfit and “claims” to be the original crossfitter, who “claims” to be a world class gymnast but yet there is not one iota of evidence of you doing gymnastics or doing a Crossfit workout. This site is full of photos and videos but yet does not possess one of you doing anything that would be quantified as a physical pursuit.
I’ll grant that you are a good coach and a good motivator of people – but to claim as you did 3 years ago on your own site “I was the original CrossFitter and I can, at 49, still outperform more CrossFitters than not.” without one ounce of evidence – where were you in the 07 games?
Becareful when throwing stones in a GLASS house.”
Robb – keep strong, deeds speak.
V-
Looks like they do not like your post.
My internet goes down for a week and look what happens. I can’t believe I just spent two hours reading all the posts relating to this fiasco but I’m quite glad that I did. Robb, you seem like a very likeable guy. Smarter than I’m ever likely to be and more genuine than most like to pretend.
It’s disheartening to see all of this happen but at least there are a few things that won’t change.
1. You are STILL smarter than I’m ever likely to be. 🙂
2. I will STILL use “constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements” to train myself and my Airmen.
3. I will still continue to get most, if not all, of my nutritional infromation from you and Mark Sisson.
Keep the faith brother, your generosity with your knowledge has certainly led to faster, stronger, more effective Airmen in our Air Force.
Hooyah,
Mike
Mike-
You are too kind. I put on a good show. Bee safe, and thank you for your work. YOU ARE APPRECIATED.
DEBATE!!!
Robb, just wanted to say, I’m ashamed at how HQ is handling this whole thing. You do an amazing job, just keep on doing what you do. By the way, The Paleolithic Solution Podcasts are awesome, keep ’em coming!
Coach lost his water and made a fool of himself. I’d love to see you take the low road and let him have it but why bother. He’s already wrecked himself so what more is there to add? The guy is a full blown liar and he has discredited himself and everyone who associates with him.
Anyone who thinks Coach has credibility can go to ZoneDiet.com and buy some zone bagels. You can buy 5 for $12.00. What a great deal! The SuperZone™ Cinnamon Buns are the same price.
Sears vs. Wolf DEATHMATCH!!!!! Yes!!! Funny how I think, in a slightly different situation, Sears and Wolf would be bffs… playing on a seesaw together, sharing ice cream or building a snowman together
I tried, figured it wasn’t going to last up there.
btw – has anyone noticed Freddy Camacho’s update on his site?
http://crossfitoneworld.typepad.com/crossfit_one_world/2009/12/the-good-news-and-the-bad-news.html
Now he is getting slighted.
I stepped away from Crossfit a few months back, due to financial reasons. Decided to set up the garage gym and hit Rips SS since the one thing I found doing Crossfit was that I was weak and lacked the base layer of strength.
Now trying to do an unweighed and unmeasured paleo + GOMAD. So far the lbs are packing on but the linear progression is still happening, once I hit my goals and am ready to head back to Crossfit I hope all of this is sorted out.
If not at least I know where the real SME’s are now.
p.s. love the podcast keep it coming.
V-
Yep, Freddy is out and they banned Kelly Starrett from doing his already scheduled and sold out Mobility Cert at NorCal.
Sad, but this is not surprising or anything new. If you do a bit of research there are a few incidents over the past few years with clear documentation of Coach Glassman executing character assassination and then trying to cover it up. At this point, I guess there is too much money at risk, although this pattern will just keep repeating itself with the affiliate structure HQ has in place. The problem is the rest of the fitness and S&C world will see the legitimate SME’s being marginalized for BS reasons and that will ruin CF’s credibility.
The mainstream will not notice or care, and CF will continue to grow (more affiliate/seminar $$) since getting untrained people into a CF gym even if they have horrible programming is still going to produce some results (not to mention the hype).
Josh Bunch
“I close with a disheartening feel over how the loyalty of some are no greater than the next bandwagon that arrives at their doorstep. Coach Glassman deserves a monumental amount of respect for what he has created and offered, and given so unconditionally. For those so willing to criticize…what exactly have you done with your lives, and how many strangers have you helped?”
This theme seems to come up in any debate over the Black Box incident or other issues people bring up with Glassman or HQ. Rather than rationally discuss the behaviour issues, people start saying no one has a right to question Coach Glassman and everyone should be praising him for his contributions. WTF is this garbage? It’s like defending a cult leader.
CrossFit as a movement has helped countless people become more active and obtain better health and performance, Glassman should be praised for that. But the moment you try to rationalize behaviour like the BBS like this, you have some real problems.
Robb, I just want to say thanks for everything you do. I attended your cert this past August and I have reaped the benefits everyday since. Don’t let this crap slow you down! I look forward to the book.
If you debate Barry Sears, can we limit the number of times he is allowed to use the word “BASICALLY”
Robb, i would just like to say that i think you are doing the right thing and that I have come so far in my own health and fitness journey because of the unselfish help and support from people like yourself, so never give up the good fight!. And i agree about the Pocasts they are really something else!
First off, there is NO WAY Barry Sears will go up in a debate with Robb, he will just make himself look like an ass.
Secondly, during the 8+ hours of Robb’s cert in Toronto, half of the day was devoted to the “zone” (unfortunately) and he mentioned over and over how this tool can be used to dial in and see where your at or if a client/yourself aren’t seeing desirable results, it would be something to use. Robb’s notes clearly state: “Accuracy and precision are critical for knowing what to do next.”
He also covered the insulin/aldosterone/sodium issue. Was the cert totally geeked out on science? NO! We had people in there that don’t even know what a fucking hormone was. That being said everything Robb stated was BASED on science which is easily proven when going through the material and doing a bit of research. Robb did a EXCELLENT job laying this stuff out in a way that people can actually take something away from, without being utterly confused and going home wondering WTF just happend? I am confident in saying I speak for many when I say I could listen to Robb talk all day about this stuff…but I have yet to make it through a full FREE lecture by Sears because: I practically fall asleep, tired of hearing him talk as if making a financial pitch, and the fact the guy completely misses the boat on PWO nutrition (fucking essential if you want to even take a sniff at the games or any top notch athletic achievement).
W/M ding dongs won’t do anything for your: Type 1 Diabetes, MS, Arthritis, Leaky gut, Infertility & osteoporosis like a gluten-free/dairy-free paleo diet will & has cured!
Yeah Robb definitely should have told this Mom to get her daughter a “zone” prescription and weigh and measure whatever she wanted, because i’m sure if she ENTERED THE ZONE her body would have stop making anti-bodies to the gluten she had weighed out, which were fucking killing her. http://robbwolf.com/?p=837
Is the “zone” useful? Sure. But why make the hassle to W/M when you can see amazing results by just eating real food, and using PWO nutrition effectively? Sorry but a balanced “zone” meal PWO is NOT the best prescription for everyone. Which games competitors strictly W/M? Lets see HQ’s data on athletes using a zone diet vs Robb’s data on people strictly following paleo. Do we have any data of people curing auto-immune disease by weighting/measuring shit food?
It is weird how all this pseudo science bashing is pointing towards the same work Sears uses to base his diet around (Boyd Eaton’s work).
Robb,
Get you fucking book done, I want to read all that pseudo science shit! How many pseudo science references do we have in it? I bet there are tons! 🙂
Thanks Ben-
I forgot to mention all those silly folks who have put their autoimmune issues into remission. Pseudo-science strikes again.
I would definitely pay to see this debate.
Rob. It was a real pleasure spending this last weekend with you at the CF Football cert. Was really appreciative of your insight on the nutrition aspect of John’s program. With so much focus on health and inflammation some of us dudes who still want muscle mass get left behind!
Also want to throw in my input on the “un-balanced” perspective you apparently provide at your CF certs in relation to paleo v zone. I learned more about intelligent, practical ways to implement the Zone from you than any presentation/article/video anywhere. Just curious if Coach ever actually attended one of your certs’ before making the assertions about your lack of understanding. It’s all good though brother. I often think of times when I was shit on and later find that those things had to happen to make space in my life for something else. I have a funny feeling this BBS incident will end up being one of those moments for you. You have truly impacted everyone you teach and I am eternally gratefull that someone as intelligent and articulate as yourself decided to teach others what you know. Just keep being you and and we’ll all keep getting better! Thanks -Billy
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of coconut oil. I googled it and the oil seems to be some pretty amazing stuff. Yes, I will use coconut oil instead of butter from now on. In fact, I just brought a jar of it and I am hoping it will help me with my eczema by helping me heal my gut. Now I am completely dairy free. Get the gut healthy and the whole body becomes healthy; sounds like Pseudo-Science to me!!!
Robb — sad to hear all of this is turning out like it is. I know this kind of stuff (publicly debated) can be very aggravating. And it is a little sad that it’s become kind of a “Wolf vs. Sears” debate. I still think that both quantity and quality are important (as you probably do as well but some people seem to forget that). Just like you, Dr Sears has done some impressive work as hav Professor Cordain and many others.
Stay strong man, it is obvious that you don’t have to fear anything!
I posted the following on the Affiliate blog, I’m not sure if it’ll be approved or deleted so I’ll cross-post it here. The first paragraph is a quote from Glassman, the rest is my response:
————
“Robb,
The difficult thing about sputtering infantile rage as a business tactic is that it serves no winnable strategy. You are still confused by the logic of quality and quantity in clinical nutrition, their remarkable interdependence, and our track record on the subject. Your claim that people have gotten results abandoning the starting proportionality makes my point (reread the parts about accuracy and precision and you’ll see that manipulating, massaging, or drifting (or “abandoning”) the starting proportionality is essential to clinical nutrition and dialing in a diet. We differ in that your public claim is that weighing and measuring do not work and are not useful. That you think you can do without weighing or measuring food and clients is proof to me that your claims about your education and being a scientist both need examination. BTW, I’ve seen your CV and so have a lot of other people.”
The problem here, Greg, is that this isn’t an accurate reflection of Robb’s position at all, and it’s a bit rich to snipe about “bad reading” on Robb’s part only to twist 5 years’ worth of Robb’s forum posts, nutrition certs, Journal articles and blog entries so badly.
This isn’t the message that Robb promotes at all. He disagrees with Sears’ (frankly ridiculous) assertions that exact portion control is more important than food quality, preferring instead to eat real food over ding dongs and McDonalds burgers. You know, kind of like the first part of the nutritional portion of “World Class Fitness in 100 Words” that you wrote way back when, which is: “Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar.”
That doesn’t mean he says portion control is unimportant. It doesn’t mean that Robb is telling people never to think about portions, or never to WAM. It’s simply a difference in priorities, and his view of “quality first, quantity second” seems to be shared by a LOT of people and backed up by a LOT of real world data. But Robb also talks and writes about the Zone, portion control and balancing macronutrients a lot; the difference is that he isn’t tied into pushing a fixed macronutrient ratio because he hasn’t got a dozen books to sell based on a single premise. So he can discuss the Zone and the Athletes Zone, but also modifications to it (e.g. the “42 Ways…” article, deleting carb blocks etc.), Intermittent Fasting, VLC diets, unweighed Paleo, Paleo + dairy and more. His typical recommendation is to get lean by controlling intake and to use performance and how you feel as feedback; you know, kind of like the second part of the nutritional portion in 100 words, which is: “Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat.”
And if you care to look, you’ll never see a rabid adherence to any of these approaches; you’ll see informed discussion of their benefits, drawbacks and potential uses, along with the regular advice to “try it for a while and see how you look, feel and perform”. Robb isn’t trying to ram anything down anyone’s throat, he presents options and asks people to work out what’s best for themselves (ironically, exactly the message in Dave Castro’s journal video a few days ago). The examples he cites of athletes moving from strict Zone to unweighed Paleo and seeing improvements are just that – real-world examples. Again, this is a far cry from telling people it “does not work and is not useful”.
It’s a real shame to see this level of obfuscation and misinformation. Your condescending tone towards Robb is also unnecessary and childish. Sadly, you’ve taken a situation that was already badly handled and bodged it a little bit more. And I’ll brush over the irony of you calling out Robb on his “claims” to have gone to medical school when you have enough unsubstantiated claims of your own to deal with (where ARE all the CF-built 500-750lbs deadlifters by the way?)
Robb – keep up the good work. I personally try and avoid drama, but not a big fan of what they are trying to do to your character. You really have helped a lot of people, and have given them great info that they can start to implement on Monday after a cert. I think Glassman has done a lot for fitness, but I have a tough time listening to him about what people should be learning about nutrition.
Coach Wolf,
You and Nicki will be better off without all of this nonsense in your life (as would any educated, thoughtful coach). I wish you guys the best in the future.
Logan!
Thanks Brother! Can’t wait to see you and the rest of the fam.
It was only a matter of time before GG could get to the internet under the influence of his favorite bud and booze, the girls can’t keep an eye on him the whole time, and endulge himself in his penchant for character assassination.
What I found particularly telling was that all of a sudden he’s appealing to science, when previously, with everything, he preferred anecdotal evidence. His insistance that Barry Sears is a clinician actually made me laugh out loud. While I don’t think Sears and the Zone is a joke, it’s simply one path to get to the same place, and it’s a path that’s wildly inappropriate for the types of body dysmorphia and dietary obsession many mainstream Crossfitters are unfortunately afflicted with.
The apologists for his and the HQ kids behaviors need to grow up and understand that this is the business of fitness and self-improvement, and as a business, professional conduct is not just recommended, but required.
the read deal is this: once the basics of paleo and evolutionary fitness are understood- there is no big money to be make by anyone EXCEPT Anne Taylor, cuz i now look good in their clothes. Barry Sears has a book where he highlighted some guy working in a nursing home in Florida. The guy was called some leading expert or other. later criminal charges were brought against him for misrepresenting his credentials and forcing nursing home patients to drink his concoctions. that was years ago when i was on the zone, maybe 2002 or 2003? but the info was in the st petersburg times. that incident left a bad taste in my mouth. it made me think sears was in it for the money first and helping people second. nothing intrinsically wrong with that as long as you don’t exaggerate info and mislead people. i’m going to see if i can dig up that article.
Wow!
What an epic bunch of pussies. They edited out all of the intelligently contradictory posts then locked the thread.
Glassman, I know you’re reading this, so I have something to say to you; You are a coward… plain and simple. I’ve known that for a long time, but now it’s out there for everyone to see. Come out from behind you protective wall and debate your statements in an open, public forum.
Zach Davis
Robb,
If you haven’t seen them, check out the Youtube videos by upsideyahed.
This one alludes to you: http://bit.ly/5MkhzJ
Funny, the only people that step up and defend Glassman and it’s trainers are the same individuals that make their living through Crossfit. (Josh)
Too bad they’ll never take the challenge to debate, kind of like Olympic and professional athletes will never take the challenge to compete in the Gaymes. Nothing for them to gain and everything to lose. Too bad, I would definitely pop some corn for that one, paleo or not.
Scott-
They will not even post my responses. Now Lisbeth has shut the thread down. Well, most people are seeing through the whole thing.
Thanks for posting up that video Robb. You were definitely more clearer than Glassman’s comment about insulin having control over aldosterone (as if it was something direct) and you clearly saying that high insulin levels EVENTUALLY relate to aldosterone production (which means it is an indirect link and not a direct one since you can have people who have normal insulin levels but a high amount of aldosterone generate [e.g. Conn’s Syndrome] and low amounts of aldosterone and displaying hypoaldosteronism.)
I have no problem with using science to justify things, but when people use science on a skewed view – I take serious issue and declare BS!
Thanks for keepin’ it real!
Hi Robb – love your stuff. Also love the Zone, and we’re an Affiliate. Here’s something that just came up: I referred a new celiac client to your site. The first post she saw, of course, was today’s blog. As someone just being introduced to your site, AND to CrossFit, is that the impression we want to leave? Sorry to play devil’s advocate, but are you maybe better served to let the matter drop? You’re not going to lose your fans, and HQ won’t lose theirs, and the more people have to choose sides, the more we’re all losing. Just my .02 from a snowbank in Ontario. I’m sensitive because it’s precisely the situation I’ve been in before, and I would have been much better to drop the issue with questions hanging in the air and a big sense of frustration than to air the issue publicly. It cost me several members, and a competitor is still in business because I made people choose sides instead of making it easy for them to come to me.
Chris-
This is absolutely NOT how I;d like them to experience this blog. I’d like to actually work on my book. But when I left CF previously Coach Glassman slandered me. I did nothing about it. Most people saw through to the truth, but not everyone. I hear what you are saying, I’m working to move on but Glassman will spin this to his dying day. I’ll do my best to keep focussed on my work and just helping people. it;s damn hard to do though. I DO appreciate the comment.
Robb,
It all began with these links from my wife. Who the hell is Robb Wolf and why is she always on his page? Heh. Now 99% of what I believe about nutrition comes from Robb Wolf and Mark Sisson.
Prior to that, I had some experience with weighed and measured crap. I’ve lived a few days on egg whites and ice cream in perfect Zone proportions. I lost some fat, but I felt like CRAP. The catalyst for that experiment was Nicole’s video saying she had a client who did better on weighed and measured beer and steak!
The challenge is my WAM’d egg whites and ice cream were actually better than the crap I was eating before. Better IS better. But better isn’t necessarily good. I would show marked improvement on the SAD diet if my previous diet was comprised entirely of waffle fries and hemlock shakes. So should we embrace the SAD diet? Uh…I’ll venture a big NO!
Hang strong with the crap being thrown your way. Consider this from Timothy Ferris’ website. It’s not a quote from Ferris, but it’s unclear who to attribute it to. It was in a blog post titled “The Benefits of Pissing People Off”
“…if you are really effective at what you do, 95% of the things said about you will be negative. Keep your head on straight, don’t get emotional, take the heat, and just make sure your clients are smiling.”
Wow, does that not strike a chord for you right now? Keep up the good work.
Honestly, what is a “cert” anyway? It’s just a piece of paper. Hasn’t Glassman shown that you can get people to buy into your program without having any “certs” himself? Prove yourself through your actions, not by a piece of paper.
Have Kelly come up and just do a workshop – who says it’s a CF mobility cert? 😉
Veronica-
That would likely get Kelly where I am now. Interestingly however, Kelly is an independent contractor. That CF HQ has ANY commentary on where he is to do these things is stepping over several lines.
Wow! Do you mean they banned Kelly from doing it? Or they banned him from doing it in that location? I’m schedule to attend that cert as well, and saw they moved it to Redding. Please tell me they didn’t get someone else to do it!
They already went from Robb to Barry Sears. Are they going to switch from Kelly to Richard Simmons or Jane Fonda? 😉
Bill-
They have only changed the location.
All I can say is that the first post on this blog entry by David Velez is hands down the BEST post on any site to date!
Here are my two cents if anyone cares! Both sides should get together and figure this shit out quick, because this conflict is not doing anybody any favors! Are we forgetting why all of us are in this in the first place? TO HELP PEOPLE!!! Both sides need to get over themselves. BOTH CONCEPTS WORK!!! And besides, I can pretty much guarantee there is less than 1 percent of Americans (Crossfit or not) that will adhere to any diet 100% of the time. If you think they are; you’re fucking kidding yourself! Let’s evolve!
Kevin-
If Glassman calls me, I’ll talk. I’d like to accomplish 2 things:
1- move on.
2-Not be slandered.
Robb, I think it’s time for Greg, You, RIP, and now Freddy C to start something tangible outside the CF community. Together with KellyS you are a group of professionals that could form a separate organization without the bullshit and egos. Numerous folks have mentioned this and are eagerly waiting for it to come about…
Robb, Where is your CV? Is it on the website?
Are you working towards a PhD?
It’s easy to make shit up and not have to answer to learned colleagues, IRB committees, peer review, etc…
You should redirect your adolescent ADHD towards getting a real education.
Once you do, nobody can take it away. Not Coach or Castro. You will be valuable to all of society, not just crossfit paleo wankers.
With respect,
Gino
Robb,
I think you need to go back to HQ, pull a Jerry McGuire, steal a fish and yell “who’s coming with me?”.
Now go back to your Harry Potter nutritional based science while I add some Mayo and Whey protein to make my Guinness Zone friendly.
MOD
Robb, you are a pioneer of nutrition. Shedding the shackles of CFHQ will benefit everyone, especially those of us on the receiving end of your nutrition advice. I will NOT weigh and measure Sears bagels, bars, pizza, and whatever other crap he will likely sell at the new “certs.” I know most people aren’t interested in anecdotal evidence and documented scientific studies are the only “real” barometer for the validity of nutritional arguments. But if CFHQ would just look around they would see, anecdotally, that so many of us who have looked to food quality have dramatically improved our lives. Zone is useful in its own way, but food quality always comes first, what’s so complicated and offensive about that concept is beyond me. Crossfit has been great for me because I have been able to take what’s good, or “the cream rising to the top,” and leave all the other “silly bullshit” aside. This now includes CFHQ and their old guard mentality. Lastly, though, I just want to say thank you for all of the FREE information and service you provide to this community and your tireless efforts to improve people’s lives. If they can’t see that is the driving force here, then f#ck em.
So I’ve been in the background following this from the beginning. I’m trying not to take sides, but unfortunately the level of unprofessionalism with which Glassman et al have handled this leaves me doubting. Robb, I appreciate very much everything you have done and are doing in light of these events and I thank you very much for keeping the general population informed as to what’s going on, especially in light of the way the main site has been handling (read stifling) any discussion on the topic.
I write today after seeing the latest hot spot for discussion on the affiliate blog shut down, where Lisabeth directs any further comments to certain threads on the affiliate message board. Sadly that leaves a significant portion of the population, and some might argue the portion that benefits most from the community’s SMEs, out of the loop on the continuing discussion. My request to you is to continue doing what you have been doing by providing updates with any relevant information that may come to light throughout any pertaining discussion on the affiliate message board. After all, I would hate to miss out on any more foolish claims or comments made by Glassman…
Thank you,
AJ
I hear you. I’ll keep sending people this way. I like the new ‘sleep’ post.
Gino,
You are full of crap. It is much easier to make stuff up when you are a PhD, because then everyone will believe you, because you are a PhD. What in the world is a PhD actually good for? A few things….(note, I am talking about hard science PhDs).
1. Teaching at the Univ level-this actually means never leaving school, never really working, just impressing undergrads (who are too naive to know any better).
2. Continue to do hard science, bench work. If you are really good you will do this in the private sector, patten your work and make a lot of money. The main thing about this is you are so far removed from where the “rubber meets the road” it is not for everyone.
3. Get your PhD, then use it not to conduct science, but to convince people you know what the hell you are talking about because you have PhD after your name. Better yet, launch a line of fish oil tablets, bars, bagels, write 17 books full of nonsense, but sprinkle in just enough hard science words like “eicosanoids” or my favorite “arachidonic acid”. Then, you can remind people, they really do not need to know about these things, just listen to you because you do have a PhD.
Tony Budding used a term awhile ago I love. It was “curriculum-validate”. I understood it to mean, my CV validates what I am saying, even though it may sound like horse crap to anyone who actually understands it. I guess now CFHQ is curriculum validating its staff. Hey, where did the director of training get his PhD in exercise physiology?
Robb,
James and Kevin said all that needs to be said.
Started at CF but I have now moved on, who wants to eat zone bars and bagels anyway…..
Now its Greg, Robb, Ripp etc…. HQ is really unimpressive
Uh-oh
Wheels is angry…you don’t want to see him angry!
I feel bad for all of those newbies who don’t know what to make of this situation and have no clue who to trust. I understand what they feel because I felt confused the last time Robb left CF. I found CF early, in 2003, and remember when Robb was certified as a CF “Coach”. When he left originally I was so confused and didn’t know what to think about Robb or his contribution to CF. However, it was very clear the next couple years the HUGE void he left in regards to nutritional information and education among the CF community. I blindly followed GG because I had always known him to be above reproach in my limited interactions with him.
At one point, I was becoming involved with CF on a more visible level. I asked for help from the CFHQ staff only to be continually ignored and when I persisted in seeking direction I was berated by GG. This after spending my own time, energy and money trying to promote CF in a way GG and I had agreed would bring value to the community at large (while having no revenue streams from it). I was told to make myself useful to CF and then I would earn their help. I was upset and hurt because I thought I had done something wrong and offended GG. I moped around for a solid week and made excuses for his behavior toward me. Shortly thereafter I quit my endeavor as my heart just wasn’t in helping CF if they weren’t going to acknowledge me. Now, I am extremely glad I did not waste more time on them.
I can see how someone would not trust what I have to say based on my comments. I have no clue what type of people make up CFHQ, or what to make of GG. If you are new to CF or Robb and don’t know what to make of this situation I feel for you as I’ve been in your shoes. To clarify things for yourself I would offer you this exercise.
What do these respected fitness minds have in common?
1. Robb Wolf
2. Mark Twight
3. Dan John
4. Freddy C.
5. Greg Everett
6. the others…
They have all been asked or chosen to leave CF at one time or another. So, I would ask myself…is the problem all of these people or is the problem CF Inc.?
This time I know who to trust and who I’m going to follow and it’s Robb Wolf.
Robb, stay strong, defend your name for the sake of the confused, and know their are many you’ve never met out here supporting you. Thanks for making a difference and staying true to forging elite fitness.
My husband and I watched one of the interviews with Sears the other night…at the end I was irritated and had one thing I wanted… I want a side-by-side with Barry Sears and Mark Sisson with their shirts off! (You can’t participate because you have an unfair “age advantage” so Mark should slove that issue.) Except Mark seems to have his shirt off a lot and his body comp seems on point so…Bring it Barry! (Maybe a bit juvenile but to a degree the proof is in the coconut pudding.)
Cybil-
THIS is an interesting piece. All these guys who sing the praises of the zone can not bring themselves to follow the zone and generally do not look very damn healthy. Sisson, Devany, Cordain, Myself, Bastos…researchers, athletes and coaches who largely push the Paleo concept actually DO it. We all look reasonably healthy too. Hmmm…
Budding is still running his mouth on the journal blog. I wonder if he really believes his own lies? What happened here is obvious. Black Box Summit showed Coach that trainers can get together and make an honest dollar off the crossfit community without involving him. He melted and sent out his lackeys to throw some weight around. Now Freddy’s dead, Wolf fired, and you can bet whoever else supports the Black Box Summit in the future is on the fat man’s shit list. Everyone with balls is going to jump ship and he’s going to be left with suck ups like Barry Cooper and John Brown.
Joe-
Yep.
Unbelievable! I get busy with work and another shit storm appears. A couple of thoughts:
1. My first level 1 cert (BTW, I am pissed that I wasted my money on more than on, other than the fact that I met Robb and some of the other staff that are great people) the message was clear that credentials meant nothing in CrossFit because those in the acedemic world did not understand how things work outside. Why has that changed now?
2. At my second cert, Dave basically introduced Robb as the smartest and most knowledgable person in CrossFit about nutrition among other things…again, what has changed?
3. I see the removal of SME’s or driving them of as the same method used by muscle mags to sell the same topic every couple of months….every so many years you will see the same material under a different author. Well, it seems to me CF is no different. They will bring in a new SME to get us to spend whatever $$$$ amount to re-take another “cert”. Great way to keep the machine running. I have to say a lot of the material produced by CF is great, but the older journals seemed to have more substance….now it is about being a fucking rock star. What new methods are we going to see to re-sell old topics. I like Dave Tate’s material, but really…what is going to impact the average (for that matter, most) client more….quality based nutrition or “Pick the Fucker Up”…many more examples of this just cruz the journals. By no means is this an attack on Tate. He has probably forgotten more than I will ever learn about lifting heavy objects.
4. Many above have expressed this, as well as others on CF forums, etc….the two times I have seen Robb speak about nutrition, a level 1 and the Nutrition cert, he never bashed The Zone and spent a lot of time on it after covering the importance of quality. Weighing and measuring was discussed as the best way to dial everything in. Also, Paleo Brands appeared soon after my Nutrition cert and not once did Robb mention it or try to plug it. What’s wrong with having a good idea and running with it anyway…more power to you Robb.
5. Why is it so difficult for the brainwashed to believe “constantly varied, random approach to fitness” is so great but nutrition requires precise measuring?
It is unfortunate that what is a great thing, CF, and what it has accomplished in spreading for the most part great material has developed so many that are strong in body but weak in mind.
That CFHQ would presume to dictate anything to KStar implies a hubris on grand scale. CF needs Kelly more than Kelly needs CF. And knowing Kelly to be one class act, He’ll do whatever he can to deliver his message, no matter the obstacles tossed his way, without complaint.
I’m particularity enjoying the grand irony in Greg Glassman’s recent conversion to the belief that clinicians and pHd’s represent the pinnacle of academic and practical thought on the subject of nutrition and fitness. For year Greg railed against the perceived (and real) deficits of pHd’s, Dr’s and certified trainers, but now sings their praises. Black is now white, I guess, but only if hypocrisy and self-serving statements are your tools of the trade.
Worse, it makes his statements on morality, free-market workings, and open source organizing even more questionable and self-aggrandizing.
Thank God for you, for your cert that I attended this year, for the blogs, for your great communication and for the future! Rock on! I have used your teachings in my every day life for me and for all that surround me…again, thank God for you. Period.
Hi Robb,
Thought this might interest you…
Reading through The Omega Rx Zone book, Sears talks about where he got his carb:protein ratio from see (Appendix D p252). It was this Journal article (text not available online unfortunately)…
Eaton SB, Konner M.
Paleolithic nutrition. A consideration of its nature and current implications.
N Engl J Med. 1985 Jan 31;312(5):283-9.
So technically, the Zone is trying to be “paleo” without being “paleo”.
🙂
Chris-
I have mentioend this to HQ numerous times. As usual, no response.
This is the cure to our nutrition woes:
“Let SuperZone™ Cinnamon Buns spice up your breakfast table with its delicious eddies of fresh cinnamon and delicate sweetness. Whether you like your cinnamon bun “naked,” want to dress it up with fresh fruit, or warm it in the oven or microwave, our Cinnamon Bun is sure to make your mouth water.”
Being associated with this crap and the Progenex crap proves Glassman is nothing but a sellout.
I’m in agreement with Joe. The MEBB Summit fall-out appears to be less about Paleo vs. Zone and more about power, control and money. If three highly respected members of the CF community can host their own successful seminar outside the constraints/controls of Glassman then CFHQ’s ultimate control of the revenue stream will diminish. The level of hypocrisy in GG’s pontifications on free markets (ideas, trainers, CF affiliates, seminars, etc.) is incredible.
My own history with CF started in ’04 and I am officially done with it. I’ll continue to read CA, Rut’s page and Robb’s among others but CF, GG and the whole HQ scene is on the shit list.
Thanks for the blog and Podcast, Robb. Keep the faith and fight the good fight.
Butch-
Have not seen your name in some time. Thanks for the support.
crossfit led me into the world of HIT and paleo nutrition. taught me how to do real exercise. I will be ever grateful, but their emphasis on keeping the franchise on message, or whatever it is theyre trying to do as they grow, is ironically in contrast with the libertarian ideals that appealed to me. results is what matters. I havent followed the debate, but remember the first thing I read about nutrition in CFJ, after “follow the zone” was “not really because you need 3x, 4x, or 5x fat for good performance.”
Butch I think you hit the nail on the head. I think you are right about CFHQ is trying to keep the affiliates from dipping into their revenue streams with competing courses. I would not be surprised if the CFHQ Affiliate Agreement is updated in the near future with a “noncompeting clause” for these types of courses.
Steve-
This is particularly ironic in that affiliates are supposed to turn a blind eye to the fact the market is getting saturated by new affiliates, but HQ would scream foul if we put together an alternate Level 1 program. Why not 5 different Level 1 programs with a % of proceeds going back to HQ? Let the market determine what is good and what is bad? Not likely to get much traction.
Hell yeah, Robb. Good to hear you willing to debate and call people out on their bullshit.
Nice. Good stuff Robb.
The Westside video with Budding and Castro was hilarious. Budding didn’t know that powerlifters squat more than they deadlift? He went to Westside to suck up to Louie and apparently he has never looked at the results of a powerlifting meet. Incredible what a fool that guy is. Castro was nearly busted in two by that deadlift. LOL
On the blog for today’s WOD Glassman continues to lie about Wolf. I’m sure it’s not fun to have someone lie about you but you can be sure his lies are obvious and he’s only damaging his own reputation.
Well, this is what I knew would happen. Amazing considering te time I put in there.
This appeared in the comments on today’s (12/12/09) mainsite, very interesting, I think couch er.. coach may be getting a bit frustrated. The first comment is from a guy named Benny and the second is Coach’s response.
“Wow, Louie Simmons. Huge love for his practical knowledge. “This is what works” – oh yeah. I’d love to see more of those exercises and motions because anyone who can figure out efficacy in training by trial and error, and get results like his, is worth paying attention to!
So why is the Nutrition side going in the other direction? Only Dr’s and PhD’s count but tested, practical knowledge is suspect? Come on, the medical community gave us the “Food Pyramid”. But trial and error – and results – gave us Paleo.
JUST like Coach always says, “The science isn’t important – look at the results”. Westside Barbell = results. So does Paleo.
Fix the differences and bury the hatchets boys, the results are more important than the emotions. There are a lot of people who are waiting for reason to prevail.”
Coach’s response
“Benny,
In stating that only MD’s and PhD’s count you’re compounding other light thinkers’ bad reading. That was never stated by anyone, it was a terrific misread of a post of mine where I stated that we were going to run a nutrition cert with PhD’s, and MD’s with clinical experience and a staff with extensive clinical experience to replace the current offering.
The replaced individual responded with the comment that now only PhD’s and MD’s are qualified. You’ve just parroted his nonsense.
Your assumption that we’re moving away from tested clinical knowledge is in fact exactly, perfectly, wrong. You have it entirely backwards.
It would be a mistake to think that having an advanced degree qualified anyone of anything, but it is an improvement to replace a guy claiming to have attended medical school with one who actually did – just as a starting point.
There is no aspect of the nutrition program that is not being improved on. To wit:
1. The staff will have better credentials
2. Have more clinical experience
3. Greater aptitude for science, math, and logic
4. Greater respect for the affiliates and trainers
5. Work with HQ with a collegial spirit
6. Satisfy a growing pressure from the scientific community to improve our nutrition offering.
You ask us to “bury the hatchet”. I needed to replace a trainer openly hostile to HQ with marginal or more accurately NO clinical experience who very publicly called for the elimination of quantifiable methods in nutrition (no weighing and measuring of clients or food). ”
Robb, feel free to take this post down if you feel it’s not too relevant or long or possibly libel (I can’t confirm it’s glassman but I find it hard to believe it’s not).
Also, it was great meeting you at the CFFB cert last weekend, I was the guy with the mustache!
Jesco-
glassman is “lite” on facts an has been solid at spin in the past. I’m surprised by how little he has come to the table with on this. He is either delining (the assumption of many) or they are really in a tough spot. I’ve said my piece, he will run me down in public and private, not much I can do about that. He did it before, it would be quite a change if he changed this time.
Steve,
If HQ did that wouldn’t they be really close to the line of franchising ?
Rob you should keep offering special rob wolf certs to “any gym that wants one…” be your own pimp. Hq was just a middle man
whats with the syntax in that post? its all garbled even more than is typical of him.
was it really necessary to retaliate by saying “bad reading … terrific misread parroting nonsense … assumption … is in fact exactly, perfectly, wrong … backwards.”
i didn’t know anyone could be factually, exactly, and perfectly wrong all at once.
Dan-
it’s pretty telling.
Robb, I tried to post a comment yesterday but it didn’t work (it didn’t even go into the “your comment is awaiting moderation” stage). The comment was quite long but not as long as something I posted the other day.
I wouldn’t mind mind normally, but it was largely a response to Glassman’s affiliate page comments and took me a little time to compose. It’s just sat on my computer at the moment.
I don’t know the first thing about computers and am not used to posting comments so I’m just wondering why it happened. Have I offended the internet?
Seb-
Was that my site? I’m really sorry but I see nothing on this side of things. If you have an internet connection issue…if the internet gods are boing capricious, they can get lost occasionally.
Hmm, tried it again. “Duplicate comment deleted”. Mystery. It was supposed to come in around comment 89 if that helps.
Yeah, and I’ve just tried it again to no avail (edited the comment slightly to avoid duplicate). It contained a couple of naughty words. Maybe that’s it.
Never mind, I just hate it when Glassman is allowed his say and then threads get closed.
Suggestion to all:
If your (long) comment was worth writing (and, I hope, self-editing) before you hit that “Post Comment” button, then it was worth copying and pasting into a temporary text file on your computer (before you send it) and hanging on to until you know it got through.
Unfortunately every great empire eventually meets its untimely downfall. Crossfit is no exception. The theories and methodologies in terms of performance, strength and conditioning I have learned from CF will forever be my base on which to expand. However CFHQ and the higher-ups that run it are all a part of a broken system. Coming from an exercise science degree with multiple certifications (please don’t mistake that for arrogance) I can honestly say CF excommunicated 3 people who truly knew their shit. If Mr. Starrett unexplicably gets canned I’ll scream conspiracy. Robb this is my opinion and mine only but my hope is that you, Rip, Greg and Mr. Welbourn split off to develop your own program/protocol/concept/methology within the strength and conditioning field. I personally believe the knowledge of you 4 would be far in advance of anything HQ could do. Like I said, my opinion only.
Sorry to keep fanning the flames, but I just learned this and posted it to the main site. Anyone who can help me get a better understanding of this would be much appreciated….
This just gets better and better.
Straight from D&B (Dun & Bradstreet, the world’s leading source of
commercial information and insight on business) who does company analysis of all major companies both in the US and abroad. For those of you who don’t know, D&B is a company that major companies depend on for financial information for doing business with other companies. Below is a direct quote from D&B (in quotes)
So, the fitness juggernaut Crossfit, Inc “is a private company categorized under Publishers and located in Prescott, AZ. Our records show it was established in 1982 and incorporated in California. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $5,500,000 and employs a staff of approximately 10.” And guess who the President of this private organization is? Yep, Mr. Greg Glassman. Crossfit, Inc owns all rights and trademarks of Crossfit.
I am struggling with the fact that a publishing company has labled itself as a Fitness and Nutrition company. To the points above, not only is our organization dangerously close to lawsuits for allowing affiliates to begin prescribing dietary and nutrition needs for its clients (which is not legal) based on the coaches comments, but to previous points, they continue to push out L1 trainers who do not understand scaling (perhaps they were taught this in the cert, I do not know), as I have seen up close and personal, and are in danger of really hurting people
As an organization, Crossfit, Inc. needs standards which all affiliates are held accountable. So a question to HQ, how can an affiliate of a publishing company be in the business of personal training, fitness and diet? It’s a rhetorical question.
Someone please help me understand this….
Just so I am not accused of just complaining, I welcome anyone from HQ to email me or give me a call. I will be more than happy to offer solutions on how to solve this lack of standardization and will also be more than happy to share my credentials to show I truly am capable of offering this advice
The hell with what HQ has to say. In all honesty, the only reason I’ve been checking the CF site for the past year and change was to see if you had any up-dated information to share via their journal.
If anything it’s doing me a favor by saving me the $29 and the time of having to visit the site.
All and all buddy, you still have a very real and very strong following!
Back to the awesome and motivating content you’ve held us down with for so long!
– Anthony
Robb,
Melissa and I enjoyed (part of) a bottle of Oveja Negra Cabernet-Syrah last night. Aaaaand, thought of you… Ha. Hope you’re well. Hi to Nicki for us.
Robb,
I’ve been asked many times to publicly comment on this situation on my blog. I won’t fan the flames over there, but I will say you’ve been a good friend and mentor, and Dallas and I owe you a lot for some of the advice you gave us in September. We are, as always, with you.
Looking forward to attending one of your nutrition seminars – and if you need a subsequent write-up, review or guest post, you just have to ask.
On another note, as we recently discovered we cannot run our nutritional consulting practice under the umbrella of our CrossFit affiliate, can you change the links on your page to our private consulting site? We’re at http://www.whole9life.com now. Thanks.
Oveja Negra t-shirts are coming.
Melissa
Thanks Melissa, big love to you guys.
thanks for the analysis lee. I recall Coach saying his attorneys were Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati which is the top firm in Silicon Valley. Based on what you’ve written, I’m confident he was lying about that. He said that in the context of defending his intellectual property rights. He said when he was trashing Gym Jones.
“When the Gym Jones manual, which Mr. Twight foolishly thought that I’d never see, was revealed to be built entirely from CrossFit concepts for which he took ownership, even liberally, eerily, infused with my idiom and syntax, I was enraged but ultimately decided that the market solution would be more fruitful than legal remedies. Markets are fooled but transiently by affronts like this. (Our law firm, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich Rossati which represents Google, Intel, Sun, Palm, Apple, Hewlitt Packard, Knight Ridder and, of course, CrossFit offered that we’d surely exceed Mark’s net worth in pre-trial motions, and that judgment would likely never be recovered, offered nonetheless to subsidize our efforts. Say what you want about lawyers; ours, and their generosity, are vital to this programs existence.)”
Robb,
I’m an affiliate, and lest my comments be taken completely out of context, I’ll try to be more subtle with my comments than is generally the case…
I appreciate your commonsense approach. I agree that quality is where we should start (just could never reconcile how a Zone Bar was good for anyone). I know just how interesting it can be dealing with HQ. I see nothing in what you have written that is inflammatory.
As an aside, my athletes have seen the best results on low carb paleo over zone. Further, MEBB and hybrids have proven superior to out-of-the-box CF programming at my box.
Kudos for sticking to your guns.
Great work on your new podcast.
I look forward to your book.
Sincerely, Adam Stanecki.
Thanks Adam, much appreciated.
Robb,
So, have you been deaffiliated already? They had already taken Crossfit Norcal and Catalyst Athletics out of the list of affiliates on the mainpage, and you and Greg are no longer ‘Affiliates’ in the forum (this hasn’t gone unnoticed on the cathletics forum). However, those morons had forgotten to remove you guys from the list of California affiliates on the Affiliates blog page. I’m a stickler for consistecy so I typed a quick comment (that didn’t get posted but that’s not the point) and they “fixed” this real quick! :-)))
Oh, and you’re still a CF “Friend” on the mainpage, but who knows how long that will last.
Always glad to help.
Yep, true enough. Time to do a post.
Just to be clear, I wasn’t calling you out. But these days it’s hard to tell who is aware of what, and it seemed plausible that they “removed” you before you had a made a decision yourself or had been informed of theirs. Anyway, laugh/cry, same old same old, just another nugget of classless incompetence on their part (their recycling of Glassman’s “Asshole Barrier” schtick is exquisitely timed, as well).
Thanks Boo.
Great points in the video, Robb.
I’m about a year late to the party, but one thing about the whole “losing water weight” thing for me is the context. “Losing” water weight makes it seem like you were previously in a natural state, when in reality you are almost assuredly “correcting an imbalance” brought on by elevated levels of insulin. You’re shedding the unnatural excess that was caused or exacerbated by a certain way of eating and/or lifestyle.
You can use the same statement in the previous sentence for “weight loss” in the context of someone who is morbidly obese. They’re correcting an issue, and losing the fat is a side-effect.
Yes.