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Features guest Brad Davidson discussing estrogen and hormones and how to optimize training and nutrition for women.
Estrogen & Brad Davidson – Episode 136
Robb Wolf is a former research biochemist and 2X New York Times/Wall Street Journal Best-selling author of The Paleo Solution and Wired To Eat. Along with Diana Rodgers, he co-authored the book, Sacred Cow, which explains why well-raised meat is good for us and good for the planet. Robb has transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people around the world via his top-ranked iTunes podcast, books, and seminars. He also co-founded the 1st and 4th CrossFit affiliate gyms in the world, The Healthy Rebellion community platform, and is the co-founder of DrinkLMNT Electrolytes.
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Hey Robb,
Sorry for the novel but please HELP ME SLEEP! I am looking into trying out Seriphos from Interplexus to help out with my sleeplessness. I suspect that I have a thrown off cortisol curve and hope that this could help. I typically can fall asleep easily enough in my pitch black room around 10-11pm, which may be due to the 3mg of Melatonin and Natural Calm that I take. But this is not a deep sleep that I always awake from multiple times during the night. I usually do hit my deeper REM sleep somewhere in the 4-7am timeframe, which I have to break in what feels like the deepest part of sleep at 7am for work.
My question for you pertains to dosing and when. I have seen conflicting recommendations to take seriphos in the evening or to take it throughout the day. I have also seen feedback stating different levels of adaptation to seriphos. Do you have a recommended starting point for how much to take, when, and how to cycle it? Also any recommendations on how to tweak it from there? Anything else I should try like holy basil and are there any combinations that should not be taken in conjunction between melatonin, seriphos, etc.?
A little background. I am 28/M/5’11/170. I have been eating varying levels of paleo for the better part of 3 years, currently doing high quality paleo (grass-fed beef, good fats, carbs from tubers and berries) plus dairy (16 oz organic 2% milk post-workout), 3-4 g EPA/DHA, up to 4000 IUs Vitamin D per day depending on sun exposure. I am unmeasured but macro breakdowns would be in the neighborhood of 220g protein, 120g carbohydrate, and 140g fat. I am currently doing strength work (Catalyst-esque) 3 days a week and either long slow effort grunt work or sprint work 2 days a week. During the week I workout at 5pm and have good energy that time of day. My first assumption would be to take seriphos at 7:00pm between my postworkout milk (6:30) and dinner (7:30) to drop cortisol levels and start to wind down before trying to sleep at 10pm.
I also just purchased ‘Lights Out’ so I will see what I can get from that.
Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me.
Harrison
Try changing your “milk” to goat kefir — it is easier to digest.
I was using goat milk (only 8 oz per day) but found it gave me “jittery” energy; the sugars in kefir are partially digested and there’s lots of gut flora in there too.
You might just use coconut kefir — other than the taste there’s no “feeling-based” difference from what I can tell.
I eat mine with blue berries before going to bed (around 1/2 hour before).
I also teach something called “conscious-sleep” I teach to vets and law enforcement primarily — but Robb hasn’t vetted me so I’m not going to leave contact info; but what I’d say is go read books on Yoga Nidra, there’s the iRest program taught by a doctor I know (google it).
Can you guys post links to all the products covered in the podcast. There was so much information to follow up on, but its too hard to catch it all by listening to the podcast.
YES!!! I’m scouring the net for ewp.com or whatever the website is to check out my personal care products.
pennyd, it’s environmental working group. good luck!
http://www.ewg.org/
I give my kids cod liver oil occasionally, more when they were in daycare. When my 2nd daughter was about 2, I knew I was giving her a little much when she started smelling like cod liver oil.
Here is the link for some of the products Brad was talking about. If anyone needs more detail on any of the products just ask and I will get a breakdown written up.
Link: http://www.starktraining.com/store
I also intend on doing a show notes breakdown for party peeps. Just give me some time to break this all apart.
Thanks for the info. That would be great if you guys could do a write up of all the products Brad was talking about especially Estrium. All this information is very new to most women and very informative, well especially me and it would be great for a break down! thanks!
Thanks! I just recently got to this episode, and when they were listing the top common issues women have, and the first two I totally agreed with (low protein, etc), and then all the rest I had never heard of — like the estrogen toxicity, etc — I immediately came here to find out more. So anyway, thanks for the Stark Training link.
I’d love more details on Estrium. What dosage? Taken every day? At what time? Cycled? etc.
Michelle I have majority of my clients taking 2 scoops 2x’s a day. I find that to be a safe effective dosage. I will do more extreme loading in certain cases but only on an individual basis.
Brad
Hey Robb,
I just started trying out some D-Aspartic Acid and throwing and throwing in some Tribulus similar to the Testosterone article with Mr. X.
Is an estrogen blocker like Estrium / DIM product worthwhile or necessary?
Thanks
According to one of my mentors Dr. Bob Rakowski environmental estrogens are one of the leading causes of low testosterone in men. He believes every man, woman, and child should be focused on some type of estrogen detoxification daily. So in my opinion yes it would help. I personally take something daily to aid in estrogen detox, and make sure to do the best I can to limit my exposure to environmental estrogens.
Thanks a lot Brad.
What do you suggest more often to men estrium or DIM?
Josh if a guy is already using a good aromatase inhibitor like Resveratrol or my personal favorite is Myomin (www.chi-health.com) then I majority of the time use DIM. If they are not already on an aromatase inhibitor I always use Estrium.
What is the type of estrogen detox that you take regularly? Would you recommend Estrium or any other estrogen detox for a man? Thanks.
Jeff I am a big fan of using Estrium and Hormone Protect for men who are trying to detoxify Estrogens. The combo of these 2 cover all aspects of the process for me in my opinion.
Found one! It’s ewg.com to check your personal care products!
finally, someone noticed that us ladies can in fact get beastly when they work out. i hope we can figure out what causes this in some ladies. i am not a girl who prone to being skinny-fat, so, i am not sure what to do to stay in shape and keep my pcos/type 1.5 diabetes in check. i guess i’ll have to take the good with the bad? walking may help a bit with not spiking the sugars, but it doesn’t keep them low enough and let me reduce my insulin needs either. weightlifting helps too, but, injecting insulin only helps with the beastly matter. personally, i got my leanest doing endurance cardio (no, i wasn’t a fan, but i liked the results) and kettlebells/bodyrock.tv workouts. i guess i should just go with what works?
one more question. brad mentioned he had one client with pcos and he was a bit bummed that she was on an insulin medication. if she was on metformin, why be bummed about that? doesn’t she need to be insulin sensitive to get energy from her food, especially if she is eating higher carb due to eating more fiber from high fruit/veg? also, doesn’t metformin spare magnesium, also good for the body? thank you for all you do guys! stay awesome.
I apologize if that came across wrong I was very impressed with how well the Metformin was managing her PCOS.
Hrm … maybe I should actually post this in the right section. Sorry for the double post.
Great podcast. I’m really interested in the bit about estrogen dominance and constipation, but you guys blew by it pretty fast. Can someone expand on that? Not to call out any ladies I know, but let’s just say I know someone with these symptoms and I’d love a suggestion. Was he saying that clearing up constipation would help, or that the constipation was just a symptom of the estrogen dominance? In either case, I’d like some thoughts on how to clear it up.
Yes clearing up constipation will help dramatically with detoxifying estrogen metabolites. The products I have had the most success with are Magnesium based supplements. I really like either Magnesul by Xymogen or Magnesium Citrate by Metagenics. Both do a great job of softening the stool. I like to have clients take it in the evening time as it also helps to calm down the CNS. I am also a fan of added fiber to the diet to help with constipation. 15-30grams daily broken up throughout the day seems to work well. Don’t start at that level, but start with less and slowly move it up. In my experience the Magnesium works wonders, fiber has not worked as well for my clients.
Hi- I looked up Estruim…do you know if he was talking about the Estrium Whey protein, or an RX that you need to get from your Doctor? Thanks for the information!!!
I prefer the Estrium RX you can find it at our store http://www.starktraining.com/store/shop/estrium/
Can you list the estrogen-mimicking chemicals we should watch out for again?
What if you are allergic to turmeric? Are there any substitute supplements you recommend ?
Thanks! Really great info and recommendations! I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on what % of body fat is optimal vs. okay vs. too much for females.
Have you had any experience or heard of issues with some of these same estrogen-mimicking chemicals from frequently wearing clothes that are dry cleaned?
are you suggesting taking estrium, hormone protect, AND dimension 3 together?
Mary Ann I like to use Estrium consistently and then alternate between Dimension 3 and Hormone Protect. I alternate every bottle for most people, but have found some people do best rotating as much as every 7 days.
Hey guys! Such excellent info…thank you for putting it out there. Of course, though, this podcast left me with specific questions regarding my own condition:
1. I do have ‘chubby-ish thigh syndrome’ and have taken DIM and calcium d-glucarate in the past with no noticeable results. With the estrium, would I have to take it daily for life to maintain any results I might have (this could get expensive:), and in general, how soon do you start noticing results in ‘your ladies’.
2. Would estrogen detox help if a woman has a difficult time maintaining muscle (as I do, especially in my arms)?
3. I was diagnosed with PCOS in the past, but am now seeing an endocrinologist for fertility issues and she seems to think ‘some women just have cysts on their ovaries’ and my problems stem more from a messed up hypothalamus from 15+ years of bulimia (I have no other symptoms of PCOS other than cysts and amenorrhea). Blood work shows low ESTRADIOL after menstruation (a certain estrogen) which leads her to believe that, at 32, I might be going through premature menopause…I have yet to have babies so this is disheartening to me. My question: would estrium lower my estradiol levels even more, or would detoxing myself from BAD estrogens improve my other estrogens and other hormones.
Again, THANK YOU all for providing ‘the ladies’ with this info so we can be more proactive in our own healthcare:)
Best,
Jessica
HI Brad,
Do you have any thoughts on the long-term implications of taking oral progesterone? I know you mentioned always bringing a doctor into the mix, but my interactions with my gyno on this have been kind of unscientific at best, so I’d like your opinion.
Without the progesterone, my sleep, blood sugar control, and mood all go right out the window. Which renders me incapable of any work on any of those things you’re supposed to work on to normalize your hormones because I am Crazy. And tired. And starving.
So I’d just like to hear what you think happens to one’s hormonal health over the long term on oral progesterone. And anything else you want to throw at the topic.
Thanks
Ok Robb,
You had a passing yet intriguing comment about using nicotine gum to help mobilize lower body fat stores in women. Brad wasn’t able to comment, but could you elaborate more? Specifically re: Could this help mobilize those final “5-10 stubborn pounds, due to hormonal birth control use or other estrogen dominance?”
Bump, I have the same question, more details please
Robb and Brad,
What about post-menopausal women, who tend to get abdominal fat?
I’m 58, 5’10”, 155 lbs and paleo for about a year and a half. I’ve lost 30lbs and experienced many health benefits, but still have something of a meno-pot.
Gary Taubes mentioned in a lecture I saw something about how fat deposition in post-menopausal women was an exception, but he didn’t elaborate and my research hasn’t reaped much info.
I’m sure the other older women out there would appreciate some advice on interventions that may help our waistlines.
rose
Great information. Can you post the name of the naturopath you sited on training via the cycles. I’ve been using this model and would love to read more about it. (It works:)
His name is Jade Teta here is a brief piece I found by him in regards to this topic:
Training with the menstrual cycle:
Interestingly, the menstrual cycle may provide unique opportunities for women with exercise. Estrogen increases the amount of fat burned during exercise, but makes sugar burning less efficient. Progesterone opposes the action of estrogen. Since lower intensity exercise burns more relative amounts of fat and higher intensity is fueled more by sugar burning, women can cycle their training modalities to work with these fluctuations.
It is important to understand estrogen and progesterone action on fat burning is completely wiped out by the influence of stronger hormones like insulin. So, in order for a women to reap any benefits from this type of cycled training the insulin exposure will need to be low, probably less than 100g of starchy carbs daily
More long duration and slower type exercises (walking, biking, running, etc) may be of more benefit during the estrogen dominant follicular phase. Higher intensity shorter duration activities (sprint training, HIIT, etc) may be able to generate more of an EPOC after-burn effect during the progesterone dominated luteal phase. Weight training has benefits across the board in opposing the action of stress hormones and assuring plenty of HGH.
RE: Fish oil
What supplements could be taken to be both cost effective and able to hit the high levels of O3s (2-5g/day) that was suggested in the podcast? Everything I’ve found pill-wise is that I would need to take upwards of 15 pills (or more) to hit a decent 2+ gram intake since most pills are incredibly low-grade/low-dose, or the high quality stuff like PurePharma or Ascenta gets insanely expensive extremely quickly to hit those levels (i.e. Ascenta high dose capsules would be around $55 for about 15 days worth of capsules, PurePharma would be about $65+s/h).
Or what about mixing liquids and pills/capsules? I know that I, like many people, prefer to take a capsule since it’s far easier to remember to actually take it, rather than letting an expensive liquid go bad in the fridge.
Robb,
I listened to your estrogen podcast today and am interested in the three primary suppliments Brad mentioned. However, I am 53 and on a low dose birth control to manage menopause symptoms. The dose is about 20 micrograms estrogen/day. I would rather not discontinue use of this but concerned about how the suppliments impact this?
Thanks!
What about weight on the top of the body? The lower half of my body is fine but I feel like the top half of my body is where I carry most of my fat. Mainly my back and arms.
Any thoughts on this?
Yes, what about POST-MENOPAUSAL women who are estrogen dominant. I had an estrogen fed breast cancer removed two years ago — no further treatment — my choice, now that I’m a paleo eater. I have lost 25 lbs, but still carry fat on butt and thighs — okay… and a little lower belly fat 🙁 Should we follow the same dosage as other women: 2 scoops, 2x day of Estrium? Should we be using a different product? I am currently taking DIM-Plus (300 mg daily)as per Robb’s suggestion.
Many thanks for replies!
Great podcast guys. Learned a LOT today. Also, thanks for the link to ewg.org. I really want to use safer skincare products. Can’t wait for round 2.
Hi Robb,
I’m a retired Naval officer and my (28 yo) daughter is on active duty in the San Diego area right now. I was surprised to hear that you actually know a Navy doc who specializes in hormone stabilization; where is this person hidden? The reason I ask is that I KNOW my daughter is experiencing numerous hormone issues and will likely be processed out of the military after her first enlistment if she doesn’t get a handle on them. She has been in less than a year, and has never had a full blood panel done to my knowledge. I’d like to know, from your Navy doctor’s standpoint, how can she connect with someone like this person who knows how to help?
Thanks for all your podcasts, I eagerly await them all.
Just to give everyone an update, Brad brokedown some of the important parts of the podcast in an article and detailed the supplements recommended. Check it out here: http://starktraining.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/how-to-get-lean-legs-2/