Back with episode 5. In addition to the show notes we are going to start listing key topics that are covered in the episodes to help with the search feature on the site. We lost Robb for about 60 seconds in the middle of the episode so you will notice a period of silence followed by a bunch of wacky noises while I try to get him back on the line. I was originally going to edit it out, but eventually decided that it fits with our low frills approach.
Download a transcript of Episode 5
- Thoughts on the role of dairy in a Paleo diet
- Blood glucose levels
- Transition to Paleo Diet
- Nut intake and substitutions
- Lower carb vs higher carb diets
Show Notes – The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_5
iTunes is listing Episode 5, but the audio is for episode 4. Dunno if it’s an issue with the RSS feed or what, but thought you might like to know…
Sorry to double comment, but the enclosure URL for episode 5 in the Atom feed is, in fact, incorrectly pointing to the episode 4 mp3 file.
also, there appears to be an additional empty/unnecessary enclosure URL tag as well.
Andy, or whoever your technology guru is, should probably fix this.
The show topics info is helpful. Thanks!!
Neal W. says
What’s the deal with Art DeVany? I never subscribed once he went to subscriptions. Why is it weird now?
Robb Wolf says
Art never really got the community thing IMO. I totally respect him and he has influenced my thinking a ton but he never understood just how powerful his message could be.
I am LOVING the podcasts. I just subscribed to the iTunes feed and did a rating as well.
My trainer recommended I started eating paleo, but I felt really crappy after a few days so I started eating a bit of carbs (i.e. oatmeal, brown rice) again. I love that you commented in one of the first episodes that you will initially feel like crap after changing to this way of eating.
I have been working out with a CrossFit trainer since April of this year and have seen a massive improvement in fitness and some improvement in my body comp, but not as quickly as I would like (-7%BF and -17.3lbs fat). I still have another 25ish pounds to lose and at least 12% BF, so I have a way to go. Weighing and measuring and being very strict with my calorie intake has not been as successful as I thought it would be. I am hoping that paleo will get me closer to my goal body comp. much quicker. I also think I am starting to get IBS as a result of stress – I assume paleo will help with that as well.
Thanks for all of the info. There is a lot to learn, so the audios are VERY helpful!
Andy Deas says
Thanks for the heads up! Should be fixed now (although will take a few minutes for iTunes to populate again)
Neal W. says
I have a question for the podcast (or whatever medium you prefer if you should find it a good enough question to answer).
This is a question about contrarianism and what rational outsiders should think about paleo dieting.
I’ve been following your work for a few years now and I respect your opinion (otherwise I wouldn’t bother reading your blog). I also respect the opinions of other writers like Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon. All three of you know far more than I about nutrition and probably blow my IQ out of the water.
As an advocate of paleo dieting, you are a contrarian compared to the more mainstream, middle of the road recommendations of McDonald and Aragon.
If I am a rational, truth-seeking outsider I should assign contrarian views a lower probability than mainstream views – always. In some cases, I should assign a contrarian view a high enough probability to look into should I have the resources to do so. Paleo dieting certainly fits that bill in my estimation given it’s intuitive plausibility.
However, resources such as foundational knowledge, time, and access to studies are hard to come by. So, what am I, a rational semi-outsider, to do when McDonald and Aragon say that it is ok for non-lactose intolerant individuals and non-celiacs to eat dairy and grains, but contrarian paleo advocates say that it is not?
You all are intelligent. There are no biases that seem to be afflicting one group over the other. Yes, contrarians have been right in the past, but they have probably been wrong more often.
This is quite the conundrum for me. I do not feel different when eating strict paleo versus including grains and dairy. So, I cannot evaluate in that respect.
I guess this whole ramble can be summed up in the question, do you believe there are any non-super-geek-outside-credibility-indicators that should push us non-experts to your side?
Robb Wolf says
Great question! Will def hit this.
Hey guy, thanks for this other very informative podcast.
Right now, I’m dealing with irritated/leaky gut and it’s the reason why I’m giving a good try to a low carb, no grain, no dairy diet.
I’m just wondering if you think clarified butter would be safe for people with autoimmune problems, given that clarified butter is pure fat without any milk protein of carb.
I know the easy answer is to just cut it out, but if its pretty safe, then I don’t see the reason to cut out this option from the diet that brings variety.
In other words, could we see stuff in the pure fat of butter that the body could still dislike?
Also, near the end of the podcast, you mention that not everybody performs well on a low carb diet, but except from people with prior problems (insulin resistance, kidney problems), I don’t see why people would feel bad on a diet their body was designed to eat. I guess I just need some clarification on that and I want to eliminate any doubt in my mind about low carb especially since I’m starting to talk about the benefits to people around me.
Thanks a bunch
I just watched the Barry Sears Video and he said people would be better off zoning with the modern diet than eating paleo diet without zoning. He actually said zoning with Ding Dongs is better than the paleo diet without zoning.
So my question Robb is do you agree [b]Zoning with Ding Dongs is better than the Paleo Diet without Zoning?[/b] LMAO
Robb Wolf says
I hope every other athlete Zones with Ding-dongs and we will keep over eating steak. This will likely ensure NorCal not only wins the CF games but also every category of the olympics!
This is particularly funy given Tony Budding’s quasi statement echoing Glassman’s sentiment about me: That it’s like a sports team and they needs a better pitcher.
They need better scouting!
thank you so much for this. The differentiated info on dairy was just what I had been looking for for a long time. While I’m living quite hardcore-paleo, it’s the dairy I just have not removed from my diet yet. I just love that stuff — cheese is awesome. Since I don’t experience any health problems, I guess I’ll keep consuming dairy products. At least, now I know what the distinction between milk-cheese-butter is based on.
Thank you so much!
I am a 21-year-old skinny-fat male who eats a conventional diet, hasn’t really ever “trained” before, and was looking to start a Starting Strength program to put on muscle and mass. What are your thoughts on switching to a Paleo diet before, during, or after this program? Also you mentioned in Episode 5 that leaning out and getting healthy before a mass-gain program lead to better results, how does this apply to my situation? Should try to dial in my diet and exercise before going all-out hypercaloric or should I just ride that wave of initial adaptation to lifting heavy things? Also, do you have any alternatives to the gallon of milk a day concept that might not cause so much acne (an issue I’m concerned with)? Thanks for any and all help and keep up the good work!
Guys (Andy and Robb),
Thanks again for doing this podcast. I’m sure it has made life easier for answering questions. The fact that we hear your tone, inflection, passion, ect., really makes the presentation even more effective IMO. The raw info is fantastic, but I walk away from my computer inspired in a way that I don’t think text alone could accomplish. Many thanks!
Nick Liesinger says
Thank you so much for starting the podcast! Excellent information! I was wondering if you happen to have any plans to touch on acid/alkaline balance? Thank you for all that you do.
Adam Harlow says
Thanks for posting the show topics that is really useful. I love these podcasts, keep up the good work!
Mike Kesthely says
Awesome stuff, Robb & Andy. This episode hit a lot of current topics going on at our gym. One of the guys, prior to this podcast, dumped the nuts in favor of more MCTs from coconut oil, and has been CRUSHING both strength and met cons, as well as having a noticeable improvement in body comp.
The Zone and it’s “reliance” on nuts has always seemed a little….odd, to me.
Tech Request: I don’t know if you can do this, but would there be any way to align your responses directly to the specific comment? I often find that there’s excellent questions with absolute pearls of nutritional wisdom in the replies. Just would make it easier to rip through the comments, that’s all.
Robb Wolf says
I’ll ask craig that…it is annoying the way this splits the response from the questions.
What do you think about Jay Robb egg white protein powder? My concern is creating an insulin spike because this is ‘liquid food’. I just wanted to run it by you as you are the only nutrition expert I know. My goal is fat loss, I am looking at dropping 10-15 pounds I am currently rolling with unweighed unmeasured strict paleo, gluten free, dairy free. I am shooting for 1g protein per bound of LBM which is about 185 lbs (I’m 6’6), I’m not hitting my protein numbers, even eating half a dozen eggs a day I am only getting to about 130-140 g of protein. Here’s the schematics on this product, please let me know what you think.
First thing, is it claims it has:
No Refined Sugar
No Corn Syrup
No Artifical Flavors
No Artificial Sweetners
No Artifical Colors
It says it DOES contain Ingredients: Egg albumin, Xylitol, Natural Flavor, Xanthan gum, lecithin and Stevia
Assuming the lecithin is Soy??
And here’s the nutrition info
Serving Size: 1 scoop (33g)
Calories: 120 Calories from fat: 0
Total Fat: 0g
Saturated Fat: 0g
Trans Fat: 0g
Sodium: 380mg (naturally occurring)
Total Carbohydrates: 4g
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Sugar Alcohol 2g
Amino Acid Profile Per Serving
Isoleucine (BCAA) 1597mg
Leucine (BCAA) 2509mg
Valine (BCAA) 2053mg
Aspartic Acid 3024mg
Glutamic Acid 3878mg
Here are the links:
Hey guys, great work. Just thought I’d let you know that when I go to Podcasts and then the Health category on my iPhone, your Podcast is the first thing I see!
For a future show although I’m sure it’s already in the plans, could you talk about why avoiding dairy, grains, legumes, artificial sweeteners, and veggie oils will help someone with fertility (both pregnancy and health of mom and child after the birth)? I’m looking to start a family in the next couple of years and this info would help make the move to Paleo a lot easier for my wife and I. Kind of parallel here, does an acute exposure to said evils up top throw things off really bad or is a slip up here and there nothing to worry about. Not ideal but life happens. Lastly, is Ezekiel bread ok or is it evil (assuming no pre-existing autoimmune stuff going on). Thanks again!
Kevin Burns says
I’m curious about the Jay Robb protein also.
Ezekiel beard has added gluten so it bad, but is there any sprouted bread which is gluten free?
I’m really enjoying the podcasts! Andy needs a new mic or you need to equalize the sound volume between the two of you. If I turn the volume up so I can hear Andy Rob is far too loud. It’s tough to drive and change the volume at the same time 🙂 I know you’re trying to keep it low key and easy so if this makes it more difficult to do more sessions than ignore me and I’ll equalize the volume with my own software before loading my iPod.
The 30 – 45 minute timespan is perfect and matches the more common commute times, according to the Census Bureau (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/001695.html).
I’m fairlly, well completely, new to Paleo. Have dabbled in the Zone a bit and always hated the precision required to get results. Started Crossfit this week and want the most out of it so I’m moving to a paleo diet too. The information you provide is fantastic and I really like the technical details you provide in the discussion.
Huge fan. Thanks for all you do. CFHQ really messed up.
After listening to your podcast (can’t remember if it was 3 or 4), I’ve decided to give Natural Calm at try. Before ordering, I was hoping to ask you a couple questions. 1) Do you recommend the regular Natural Calm or the one with Calcium added? 2) I am currently taking GABA and have been fairly happy with the results. Should I try out the Natural Calm in addition to GABA or drop the GABA for a few weeks while I try out Natural Calm.
eddie watts says
been reading your blog for over a year now and it’s great stuff.
been having paleo + dairy for some time, at some point i will go full on paleo for a trial but am concerned my calories will drop dramatically as i currently get through 250g cheese every day(!)
anyway i’m actually posting in relation to this http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2009/12/07/jimmy-moores-life-lessons/
if you’ve never seen this blog it’s a low carb+real food advocate but it is the first comment that interests me most about autism and the links to poor diet.
you heard any of this in the past?
Robb Wolf says
The autism/diet connection is pretty solid IMO. Especially as it relates to gluten.
John A. says
Ben Wheeler says
Not sure if Robb plans on touching on this in the podcast but…If your looking to gain mass/muscle then Paleo/no gut irritating foods is a must. If you are going to work so hard to eat mountains of food your going to want to absorb it all. If your eating gluten containing foods, this likely won’t happen. Eat Paleo, Eat ALOT, and if you are worried about the acne with milk then sub in some coconut milk. It won’t have the same anabolic effects as milk, and you likely won’t be able to put a ton of it back as it is filling, but it is calorie dense/tons of good fat that will help you recover from lifting heavy. Robb has an article about mass gain on his blog, and also wrote an article “42 ways to skin the zone” for the performance menu that touches on the “skinny guy who wants to be hueege!” that will be worth the money and reading. Hope that helps.
*Robb if you plan on answering this in the podcast then just delete!*
I’m not sure if you have looked into Beta Casein A2 and A1 milks. A few years ago I met the scientist who was doing research on it. A book was eventually written and there was a lot in our media about it. “The devil in the milk”
Here is another report
A1 ?-casein is cleaved enzymatically in the gut to produce a molecule (? casomorphin-7) which has some morphine-like actions in the body and it is postulated that this may influence the immune surveillance. A2 ?-casein, the other main casein variant, does not undergo this cleavage and is not implicated in the disease processes.
Interestingly, goats milk and sheeps milk do not contain ? casomorphin-7 which may be why they are tolerated by more people.
Personally I think if you were to drink a lot of milk, it is worth considering drinking A2 milk if you can find it.
My father who gets a lot of mucus when drinking milk switched to A2 and found it did not trigger mucus production.
Robb Wolf says
interesting stuff! Thank you!
I heard what you said about pasture grass fed butter and Whole Foods sells pasture grass fed butter. The stuff taste great and from what you said it sounds like it is good for us.
So my question is; “Is pasture grass fed butter the expection for dairy and OK for Autoimmune Diseases?”
Adam Harlow says
I was wondering what your take was on Caffeine but I ran a search on your site and nothing. Then I entered some key words in to that magical perusal motor known as Google and found a link to a post on this blog from Nov 5, 2008
Basically you say
“Yep, caffeine, good. How much? Totally depends on the individual, obviously it CAN be overdone.”
With this in mind I was wondering what you thoughts were on the best sources for Caffeine. I had always heard that coffee and green tea were very acidic, I don’t drink soda, and don’t know much about Taurine or Gurana.
I tend to use it for its supposed nootropic effects and my intake for a weekday is about the equivalent to 1-2 cups of coffee.
Thanks for any advice, I absolutely love the podcasts, tons of great information.
Robb Wolf says
Espresso. Dark and bitter with jsut a hint of chocolate to it. DAMN that is good!
These shows are awesome Robb. Thanks!
I’ve just been researching grain vs grass fed beef and found this link has good recources, articles, and suppliers etc:
Big news locally (New Zealand) is that some large farm corporations want to set up stall farming – I’m presuming it also means grain fed. Sad.
Another awesome podcast. I was left a little confused on your take on walnuts. Is your stance that eating walnuts is ok, or is that if you are going to eat nuts you might as well eat walnuts since the omega3 to omega6 balance is better?
On a off topic, whats your take on carrots. I’m doing the 1/2 carb zone right now and like to mix in a bowl of steamed carrots in once or twice a week for the vitamin A. Should i cut out the carrots because of their high carb content? I guess what i need to know how insulin spiking carrots are compared to other veggies, and if the benefits of the vitamin A are out weighed by the carbs.
Robb Wolf says
I like carrots. Easy to find organic, like the taste. Does not send me into a carb coma.
You mentioned in the podcast that people with autoimmune diseases should avoid eggs. Does eggs cause an insulin spike?
Robb Wolf says
No, eggs have a protein called lysozyme wich can be pretty damaging to the gut. At the very least cook your egs well, then. Folks with autoimmunity should do without, at least as an experiment.
Mike Kesthely says
Coffee is a great source of caffeine; I might even say thee best. It has a plethora of beneficial compounds and anti-oxidants associated with numerous studies in disease reduction. Organic, fresh ground, dark roast, straight up for me. Green tea specifically contains EGCG.
As far as net acid-base balance goes, both coffee and tea are net alkaline at -1.4 and -0.3PRAL (potential renal acid load), respectfully.
Question to Robb regarding coffee: While cholesterol, as a whole, isn’t the issue we once thought it was, what sub-type DOES cafestol (the cholesterol raising compound) raise? I’d be concerned about oxLDL/VLDL/IDL, but I’ve never come across anything that’s stated other than just a generalized “cholesterol” tag.
Robb Wolf says
Not sure on the cafestol…will look into that.
Hone Watson says
Hey Robb, thanks for the info on Milk Proteins and insulin. I never knew that. I’d cut out milk during week days but was still eating cheese during the week.
Another source of caffeine is cocao nibs available at Amazon. You get the benefit of caffeine and the benefit of chocolate all in one food. Great with Greek yogurt and fresh berries.
See this post by T, a practicing Nephrologist (kidney doc) There are four posts. Scroll down to see all.
Robb and Andy another fantastic show!
I apologize if this was already touch on, i couldn’t find it anywhere after snooping around your blog, but i’m pretty good to go with my fish oil, but was interested when is the best time to throw down during my day for example twice a day? I remember reading in Toxic Fat Dr. Sear recommends after your last meal of the day, he stated it has some sort of appetite suppression thing going on.
Anyway, i just want to include this link for pastured butter, i have purchased it locally, and its some great stuff.
Thank for all you do!
Robb Wolf says
Nice find on the butter!
When you are taking the amount of fish oil we are looking at it;s best/easiest to take it throughout the day. When you eat Paleo and not Molecular Baked goods, you are not hungry ;0)
I think I may have answered my own question on the Jay Robb protein, and the use of protein powders in general through a bit of research. Just wanted to throw this out there for all who were curious like myself.
I looked through the blog here and found a post from July 1 where Robb talked about using protein (whey) + coconut milk as a low carb PWO meal for those of us wanting to lean out (like myself). Here’s what he said:
“In this situation (low carb PWO) the PWO meal of whey protein + coconut milk is providing quickly digested protein which will reverse catabolic actions of training, with just a bit of fat to suppress the normal glucose release of a large protein meal via glucagon. This would not be the end of the world but part of what we want with this PWO meal is the MAINTENANCE of insulin sensitivity. If we totally top off our glycogen stores PWO we impair insulin sensitivity and make it damn tough to lean out. So, one way to look at this is the a LC-PWO meal is focusing on muscular recovery and growth, while minimizing or limiting the effects of insulin or carbohydrate. This is in stark contrast with what we will see in the case of the high carb PWO meal. From my perspective this is THE PWO meal of choice from a health promotion standpoint. Insulin management, cellular stress mechanisms, hormesis…all the crap I’ll cover in the book are adressed when we choose a LC-PWO meal MOST OF THE TIME”
He mentions specifically a whey protein from a brand called Isoflex:
“I used ~ 50g of Whey protein from a brand called Isoflex. It’s a mix of whey protein isolate, hydrosolates, glutamine peptides, some insulin sensitizers and other goodies. I ran with a vanilla flavor that is sweetened with sucralose. To this I added about ¼ can of coconut milk (legit Thai coconut milk…hardly any English on the can, not Whitey watered-down crap!) and 2 heaping tablespoons of coco powder. I shot this concoction down as soon as I wrapped up my CrossFit Football or ME-Black Box session. Recovery was good as in I was not particularly sore and miraculously, I started to lean out again, especially when I upped my fish oil to about 15g/day (Kirkland brand). Overall I was getting in less than 50g of carbs per day and feeling pretty damn good. Strength was solid, short met-cons were “ok” and I started to look like someone who “strength trained”.”
As a result, I really can’t see Jay Robb protein being any different from Isoflex aside from the sucralose vs stevia in the sweetener department. The BCAA profiles between the two products is similar, as is the nutrition info. Only difference in the actual ingredients (eggs vs whey). Seems like using protein powder plus coconut milk PWO would be an easy way to get more protein in ones diet and enhance recovery.
Of course from the ever valuable comments section I found a couple more gems specifically regarding this:
In regards to how much coconut milk:
“The milk is perfect if you are trying to gain weight/muscle. Id just keep an eye on the fat gain as it can pudge you out!
Fat PWO of for LEANING OUT…it is a low carb approach so make sure you are picking the right approach for your goals. A little fat (2 tblspoons) if you are leaning out, 1/2 can of coconut milk if you are mass gaining.”
In regards to egg protein:
“Egg protein ins fine…not as tasty as whey,but fine otherwise.”
And specifically in regards to Soy Lechitin, which was my original concern with Jay Robb Protein:
“I like green good sups just fine…It sounds like you have a specific product in mind…soy lecithin does not freak me out. Not my fave but it has uses.”
Think I covered everything, sorry for the long posts and to geek out on this, just something I’d been curious about for a while.
I don’t mean to drag this on but going through some of the old main site posts really brings you back to when Crossfit was really pure. From November 25, 2003:
Our Robb Wolf C&J’d 275 pounds at 165 bodyweight. There’s smarter, there’s fitter but no one is smarter and fitter than Robb.
Then in the comments:
Robb Wolf is integral to CrossFit. We launched the site looking for his ilk.
And..wait till we get his CrossFit NorCal partner John Frankl (Black Belt BJJ/Harvard PhD)posting.
We are blessed by the participation of all of you. This site is about community – a community where all who come can share the joys and wonder of movement. Everyone matters, everyone makes a difference.
P.S. I also didn’t know that the Certification used to involve a test.
Robb Wolf says
Ahh yes, the Salad Days. Once I was competent and a contributor. Now it appears, I’m a has-been on a sports team!
At one time I was given a Coaching Certificate which was supposed to designate not only a high degree of mastery of the CF concepts, but also original contributions that have grown and developed the program. At the MANY level 1 certs i VOLUNTEERED my time at I was introduced as a “co-developer” of CrossFit. Slowly however that introduction changed and my role shifted into secondary and tertiary roles at the certs while individuals with no experience in training, science or related areas became the Republican Guard of HQ. Then one day the Coaching certificates just disappeared. They were no longer “valid”. Easy come easy go I guess! I feel good about my association though because i know what I did mattered and helped people. The problem is HQ is about iron-fisted control and an appearance to be the sole arbiters of truth. Not a healthy situation.
Yeah, I came across that one (see below). By the way, the NorCal Margarita went over quite well last night at my work holiday dinner. Probably the most Paleo thing I had all night unfortunately….
January 27, 2004
Robb Wolf was presented with CrossFit’s highest honors last weekend, our Coach’s Certificate, which is awarded to individuals whose efforts have significantly expanded the CrossFit community, advanced the CrossFit methodology, and developed standout athletes.
Congratulations to Coach Robb Wolf!
Question on the format of your book.
Will this be a published fromat (amazon etc) or will it be a downloadable format similar to the products at the Performance Menu?
Robb Wolf says
Published. International distribution. God help us all!
David Wood says
a) to Neal W, the “rational contrarian” above . . . I’m sure Robb will address this better than I can, but surely you could just . . . well, you know, try it for a while? Like you, I admire the folks you are looking to for dietary thinking (Robb, Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald), but surely you could try it out for yourself and see what differences these dietary choices make in YOUR life? In other words, you don’t have to rely on others’ experience (although I wouldn’t suggest ignoring that, either). You can actually find out for yourself.
The risks are low . . . you’re not likely to die, and even a 1-month “setback” in your training and progress won’t kill you (if it turns out this isn’t your best option). Why not just try it?
b) On a purely technical note, I would recommend editing out the sort of 1-minute gap that occurred in this podcast. I can certainly understand the idea of leaving it in, but for anyone downloading it on iTunes and NOT seeing (or bothering to read) the show notes in advance, that was a lonnnnng break . . . long enough to think that maybe the podcast had stopped, or failed, or their playback device had failed.
I’d feel badly if someone quit listening after 30 seconds of silence, missing the nuggets that followed if they’d only hung in long enough. (Sort of like adapting to Paleo . . . but you gotta know that there’s a benefit for waiting it out.)
Robb Wolf says
Thanks Dave, we will get in and tinker with that gap.
This was going to be my main recommendation BTW. Just try it. There are examples out of the bodybuilding camp to follow a more or less gluten free approach, but i’ll hit those later.
Hey Robb I hav been on raw milk for 2months and listened to ur podcast and am now wondering if I should continue. I was prescribed raw by DR. Ron Schmid naturalpath doc in the north east and author of book untold story of milk. My issues were fungal on toenails constant soreness achy joints and what would say innflamation. His answer was raw milk is nature perfect food and cures loads of illnesses in the body. I eat paleo except for the raw dairy and grassfed butter is main source of fat and olive oil. I am sub 10% bdy fat and my main concern is health and performance now I wonder if I should stop the milk. Dr Ron also suggest just green leafy salads and low carb v eges and sweet potatos and fruit and spagetti squash hav too many carbs are feeding the fungus. I am confused on which direction to take. I apperciate any of your knowledge. Jeremy
Robb Wolf says
tehre is no doubt a large glycemic load, even of paleo carbs, can feed a fungal infection. Do the antimicrobial properties of milk out-way the insulinogenic properties? Are you better off with or without the raw milk? I’m honestly not sure. Try low carb paleo for a month sans dairy. Soak the foot in vinegar 2-3x/day. then try the milk and see what works better.
Because of the gut healing properties of grass fed butter is pasture grass fed butter the expection for dairy and good for those with Autoimmune Diseases?
If no, would grass fed ghee be good?
Robb Wolf says
Pastured butter might be ok for someone with autoimmunity. Id first like to see them go without, opting instead for coconut oil for the gut healing properties.
Great information on the podcast, Robb.
One little naggling thing – You’re co-hosts mic volume is not balanced with yours: his is too low by comparison.
Other than that, keep it up. I am learning a lot. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
My wife blood sugar levels are improving tremendously as is her general feeling of well-being, by following most of your advice (we’re going strict Paleo with a small amount of fruit).
Thanks to you, I’m following a much shorter duration workout schedule, and feel like I am thriving on it. I was doing straight 3 on/1 off scaled WODS and getting pretty fried. Now I’m down to three days per week of a 5-3-1 strength bias followed by a short, but very intense metcon. I’m shooting to spend no more than 90 minutes per week under heavy exertion per week (5-3-1 + skill work + metcon time).
Adam Harlow says
Thanks Robb, Mike and Dexter for the tips on where to get my caffeine fix! Greatly Appreciated.
Ben Wheeler says
What do you make of this, posted on OPT’s blog about fish oil?
There is ALOT going on here. Could it possibly be that the subjects taking the fish oil in most of the trials are consuming a diet that promotes the excessive oxidization of these polyunsaturated fatty acids? Could it actually be detrimental to take fish oil if you are not on a diet that controls inflammation in the first place? and these polyunsaturated fats are actually feeding the fire? I have never heard of Prof. Peskin so I really do not know how much to take away from this. I guess we would have to take a look at all the studies separately to see what is really going on. Interesting non the less.
Ryan Murakoshi says
here’s a company from my neck of the woods that produces raw grass fed butter.
Ryan Murakoshi says
Sorry forgot the web address…
I know you guys really dig the coconut oil. I have been drinking a good amount lately (i.e. 5-6 cans of light coconut milk a week). I have found that coconut milk makes my throat feel a little itchy. I notice light coconut milk causes less itchiness than regular coconut milk. Should I avoid or limit my intake of coconut milk if it is causing this reaction? It almost seems like a minor allergic reaction…
Xi Xia says
Hey Andy and Robb,
Loving the podcasts. Thank you so much for doing this!
I have an update about KerryGold butter. When Andy mentioned that, I drove out that night to look for it. I miss butter and haven’t touched it for so long (except when going out to eat).
I visited their website and it looks legit but I just can’t believe it is for real! They are supplying massive amounts of grassfed butter to the whole world???
At my local grocery store, there is Kerrygold and also a local creamery’s butter product. Larsen’s Creamery to be exact. Anyway, I gave them a call and ended up chatting with the CEO of the creamery. I wanted to know if the butter is made from grassfed cows? He provided me with some insight on the world of farming that I’m totally ignorant of.
His point is that it is super rare that a cow is only grass fed for their entire life. Depending on the weather where the farm is, there would be times in the year where grass is just not available. Pastures are frozen, covered in snow, too muddly, etc. You would need to stockpile hay or other non-grain feed for those times to ensure your cows are completely non-grain fed. It is possible but rare.
Anyway, I’m having KerryGold right now and it is amazing. However, part of me finds it hard to believe that it is completely grass fed. But maybe its mostly grass fed and there is “grain” milk in there but not so much as compared to other options. Who knows?
Saw this on OPT’s webiste. Wondering about your take on these vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g – Prof Peskin’s thoughts on fish oils part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=related – part 2
I’m 36, 6’2, 275lbs, I want to get back to 225lbs. I’m away from the house 14 hours a day. I currently don’t have time or energy to exercise. I’ve been trying this Paleo diet for a week now. I’ve only had one soda and one fast food chicken sandwich. This is a tremendous cutback for me. I’ve gained 3 pounds. How is this possible? The only thing I have to show by trying Paleo is fish oil burps and a pissed off wife! I don’t want to give up. Can I lose weight if I can’t commit to 100% Paleo and not much exercise until my schedule slows down? How much carbs, fat, and protein should a guy my size be eating?
Stephanie R. says
Normally, I don’t post but yours interested me in particular because my family has been in your place in one way or another.
I’ve been working hard with the various members of it to keep everyone on the right track despite lack of time etc…
Please, anyone, jump in if I am missing something.
My first question to you would be, what ARE you eating?
Going Paleo isn’t all about instant weight loss. Many people will tell you that often, the first things to change are the way their clothes fit, their measurements, their blood work, before the pounds start dropping BUT with that said, if weight gain continues beyond a small fluctuation, you need to take a long hard look at what you are REALLY eating.
There is a big difference between corn fed beef and grass fed beef. A big difference between vegetable oil and unrefined coconut oil. Are you filling up on sweet potatoes? etc…
If you don’t understand these differences, ask. If help doesn’t come then research, research, research. The answers are out there.
Next, quit the cheats! No soda, no quickie meal. Think like a caveman…you can do it for one month! You are a strong man and if you can do it for one month, then you can do it for one month and a day and so on. But just start with one month.
When I say ‘think like a caveman’ this is what I mean: Eat a solid Paleo diet. If you are in a position where you cannot get a solid, Paleo meal (here’s the kicker, are you ready for it?) THEN SKIP THAT MEAL.
You won’t die. I promise.
But you will skip the junk food trigger of the carb and crap loaded bun on the fastfood deathtrap and the poison in a can they call ‘soda.’ You know? The real stuff that might kill you in the end?
I don’t know how to make more hours in the day. I am struggling with the same issues. Money and time make things difficult. I am guessing having a partner who isn’t on board with you so isn’t cooking Paleo for you is also causing some hardship. You are going to make some big sacrifices for your health to do this right but it is worth it and you can reap benefits even though you aren’t able to exercise right now but to do this, you really have to understand how to eat. This goes beyond just cutting out grains so that is where I would aim your focus right now, if I could do it for you:)
As for fish burps (hehehe yuck), get a good, quality oil if you don’t already have one. Try Whole9, Carlsen’s or OmegaBrite (you can use the kid’s version and it tastes delicious) and mix it in a smoothie or toss the lemon flavor in with your salads to minimize the burps. You can even dress a steak with it, just don’t heat it or try to cook with it. Pour it on after your steak is cooked. 🙂
So much good luck to you!
hey robb! love the podcasts ended up leaving a 5 star review on itunes.
Was wondering if next week you could discuss magnesium supplementation and its effect on athletic performance/day-to-day life, dosage (max/min/ g/iu per lb etc), and any experiences you have with it.
Keep up the great work!
Xi Xia says
Doug, thanks for posting the link to the vids. That was hard to watch…not because I’m an expert on fish oil but because hearing fish oil is bad mojo from an official looking expert causes me a great deal of mental dissonance. What am I to believe?
I was about ready to write down all the journals he referenced and read them on pubmed. I settled down a bit and looked up “Professor Brian Peskin” on google. His home page was the first link on google…the second link and third link talk about Prof. Peskin connected with deception and fraud. Ouch. Not that it invalidates his assertions…just gives me pause.
Thanks so much for doing these podcast. I’ve really enjoyed listening to them.
I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about women supplementing with GLA. I’ve been eating strict paleo plus 4 grams(DHA+EPA) of fish oil for about 3.5 month now. 2 month into this my acne started acting up. Also since starting on the fish oil I’ve been bruising pretty easily… I’m always sporting about 2 or 3 pretty good bruises at a time. Would this suggest, that I should I back off of the fish oil a bit and/or consider supplementing with GLA? If so how much would you recommend? If its relevant, I’m at about 130lbs.
Again thanks so much for putting this great resource out there.
Re Xi Xia’s comment about Kerrygold, their website does mention that these are grass-fed cows. But while I don’t know that Irish pastures are ever frozen, I myself am skeptical that any large food producer — even one outside the US — makes a product that isn’t industrialized in a way that may affect nutrition.
For now, I’ve been buying ghee made from grass-fed cow butter from Pure Indian Foods (http://www.pureindianfoods.com/). Their ghee is only made from butter made in the non-winter months.
Thanks for all the great info via podcasts and your website. Really looking forward to reading your forthcoming book. Thank you for being so generous with your thinking and resources – “Cast your bread upon the waters, for after many days you will find it again.” (Ecclesiastes 11:1). Maybe we shouldn’t eat bread but it’s a useful prop in wisdom literature!
I am curious to get your opinion of medication interaction concerning metabolism and perfromance. I understand that you are not my physcian but I am interested in your thoughts on how the medication I am taking may interact and affect my productivity as I work toward my goals.
To recap as I know you get a lot of questions:
I am currently doing the following:
Goals: Body Comp and gains as possible in S&C
Fish Oil: 6.6 Grams per day (Nordic Naturals)
Vitamin D3: 5000 I.U. per day
Natural Calm: 3tsp per day (recommended dosage)
Sleep – Average About 6-7 Hours Per night ( would say quality is okay and has improved with diet and the NC)
Stress Level – High (work related) (but probably mostly in my head lol)
Training: 2 day – Metcon, 2 Day Strength – 4 Day Skill Set
Sorry, to rehash all that but now to my question.
I take Inderal LA and Topamax to treat migraines. I do not take the Inderal to control blood pressure, I have always had pretty solid numbers in this area. I am on the low end dosage wise for these medicactions. I have severe recuring debilating migraines since my teens and consider it some of the worst pain I have ever experienced as I get the full range of symptoms when I have one. It took several years for my doctor and I trying several different options before we came to actually using medication to treat them. That is one the I love about my doctor medication is usually the last line for her. But with this combination I have not had a migraine in almost a year (average before was 2-3 a month).
I know that all medications obviously have side effects and was wondering what effects these two medications would have on metabolism and peformance? And what adjustments if any you would recommend to work around those effects to still achieve my goals?
Thanks for taking the time to read all of that (sorry for the background).
Robb Wolf says
I do not see those meds as being particularly competitive with leanness. Have you ever tried a fully ketogenic diet? We have seen several people who have suffered debilitating migraines go completely off meds using a ketogenic approach. Andy’s wife (pdocast Andy) had a remarkable improvement.
RE Fish oil and inneffectiveness:
I remember when I started to take Omega 3 some years ago at a high dose, it was extremely effective at first and then after 3 months it just didn’t seem to work the same anymore.
I did a bit of research.
Dr Andrew Stoll (psycopharmacologist at Harvard) and author of “The Omega 3 connection” who uses high doses with bipolar patients at Harvard says you must take 500iu vitamin E and 1000 mg vitamin C to stop Omega 3’s from oxidising, as well as eating a diet high in antioxidants.
If you take a lot of omega 3 the cell membranes become saturated with Omega 3’s and without high levels of antioxidants in the diet they can be very easily oxidised and therefore lose their biological activity and secondly form lipid peroxides, which are highly chemically reactive compounds that can damage cell membranes further.
Vitamin E and C must be taken together, Vitamin E is an antioxidant for fats and vitamin C regenerates vitamin E once it has donated it’s electron to keep the fatty acids in the cell membranes from oxidising.
When I added vit E and C as prescribed – within days the effectiveness of the Omega 3 went back up.
I think many people take a lot of Omega 3 without understanding the need to have high levels of anitoxidants in the diet. I bet the studies Peskin talks about are where people with high levels of oxidative stress and poor diets added omega 3 which in turn oxidised and had no effect. Note that many studies were done on people with heart disease and damaged vessels, implying lots of oxidative stress and damage.
Cybil Cooper says
Hi Robb-Listening to Episode 5, you mention no grains, legumes, dairy and eggs if you are dealing with an autoimmune issue. My 9 year old daughter has Type 1 Diabetes and I’ve not heard “no eggs” before…would like to hear a bit about this. Thanks for talking it up-I always enjoy!
Regarding the grassfed cows, it is not that uncommon for cattle to be fed strictly grass no matter the time of year. My family runs a cattle ranch in South Dakota (about 140 beef cows on 5000 acres.) Our cows have been strictly grassfed for the past few years simply because grain is too expensive and grass has been abundant. We have millions of pounds of hay stockpiled for the winter, plus the grass the cattle graze on in the pastures.
A lot of people do feed grain as well because the heavier your calves the more money you get for them. Grain will grow them faster, but it costs more to feed them hence some people go grassfed purely out of necessity.
I’m not arguing with you about what the dairy producer told you, I’m just saying it is possible and more common than you might think.
Here are a couple of studies adressing the need for extra vitamin E when Omega 3 is taken:
Fish oil and vitamin E go together
BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32 to 44 were involved. The men consumed a controlled diet for a total of 28 weeks. For the first 10 weeks they received placebo oil capsules (15 g/day), for the next 10 weeks they received fish oil capsules (15 g/day), and for the last 8 weeks they received the fish oil plus 200 mg of vitamin E (all-rac-alpha-tocopherol). The urinary excretion of peroxidation products (malondialdehyde) more than doubled when the fish oil capsules were introduced but then dropped by a factor of four when vitamin E was added. The vitamin E concentration in the red blood cells dropped very significantly when fish oil was ingested but more than recovered with the vitamin E supplement. It is concluded that the negative effects of fish oil consumption can be overcome by taking them together with vitamin E.
Nair, Padmanabhan P., et al. Dietary fish oil-induced changes in the distribution of alpha-tocopherol, retinol, and beta-carotene in plasma, red blood cells, and platelets: modulation by vitamin E. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 58, July 1993, pp. 98-102
Fish oil supplements increase requirements for Vitamin E
LONDON, ENGLAND. A recent experiment carried out at King’s College in London showed that daily intake of fish oil supplement reduces the plasma concentration of vitamin E to below normal range. Nine healthy male subjects were given a daily fish oil supplement containing 2.1 g docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and 0.8 g eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) for a six week period. The proportion of DHA and EPA in the blood increased during the trial while the concentration of very-low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol and triacylglycerol decreased. Blood pressure fell slightly during treatment, but rose again once the fish oil supplementation was discontinued. Of particular interest was the finding that alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) concentration in the blood fell from 20 micromol/l to about 10 micromol/l during the experiment. This raises the question whether fish oil supplementation increases the need for antioxidant supplementation.
Sanders, T.A.B. and Hinds, Allison. The influence of a fish oil high in docosahexaenoic acid on plasma lipoprotein and vitamin E concentrations and haemostatic function in healthy male volunteers. British Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 68, July 1992, pp. 163-73
Andy Deas says
Just thought I would follow-up on Robb’s post regarding my wife and her migraines. My wife also suffered debilitating migraines since she was a teenager (would literally be in bed for 1-2 days at a time). Her physician had her experiment with a number of medicines before finally settling at 200 mg of topamax a day. At that dosage she had no migraines, but we become concerned about long term side effects and we continued to look for other options. After some prodding from Robb she gave a strict ketogenic Paleo diet a try. She ate meats, quality fats, and veggies and never cheated. After a few months on this we worked with her doctor to slowly ween her off the medication to see how she would respond. The first month we lowered it by 25 mg and she had no migraines so we continued to ween her off the meds over a 9 month period until she was med free. Fast forward a year later – no meds and no migraines as long as she keeps up with her keto paleo diet (although now she will eat some fruit, sweet potatoes, and rice from time to time).
On a side note we did not notice a performance degradation with her on this diet. If you haven’t tried a strict keto paleo diet it may be worth a try – it was a life changer for my wife.
Mark - Indy says
Another great podcast, gentlemen. Thanks.
Quick question about paleo cheating. Currently I do NOT use a cheat day, but rather I do use 3 cheat meals throughout the week. Typically these are impromptu lunches I have with clients as a normal course of business. Additionally, I rationalize that I’m able to easily shrug off 1 semi-crappy meal versus an entire day of semi-crappy meals.
Then I came across DePasquale’s work, and the resulting conversation with a friend of mine turned into a discussion about carb-loading, anabolic effects, etc. Her argument is that the “cheat” is more than simply a psychological break from the strictness of the diet, and that the carb-loading indeed has an anabolic effect.
Generally speaking, is there merit to her argument…and to DePasquale’s work?
Thanks for the responses.
Robb – I have considered trying a ketogenic diet. Currently, from non-vegetable source I have my carbohydrates down to about 65 grams per day. A small amount of fruit in the morning and sweet potato in the evening post workout. All other meals at this point are just protein, vegetables, and some nuts. I am working on getting that even lower. I am trying to not go to weighed and measured at this point but it was somewhat necessary to get a starting to point on the carbohydrate issue. I do eat a fair amount as (well as variety) of vegetables with each post breakfast meal. So, there is still a fair amount of tinkering going on. Would you recommend a ketogenic diet after getting leaner? I know in one of the podcasts you mentioned that the homormonal reponses to everything are different when leaned out.
What were your wifes triggers? If you don’t mind me asking. I am on 60mg of the inderal and 100mg of the Topamax and to be honest it is a frighting prospect to back to that. It may be that as I asked Robb above one I get to my body comp goals that will be the next thing I tackle. However, I seem to be on the shortbus when it comes that! 🙂 It is encouraging to hear that is controlable without medication.
Like others I’ve really enjoyed the podcast, so thanks. I was wondering if you could layout what you think phases of moving from a SAD to a paleo diet might look like. Meaning, do you have a sort of N Phase Plan for moving people to “perfect” paleo? You touched on this in your first podcast when discussing heavy(ish) nut consumption being ok for folks new to paleo, but you also have some fairly strong feelings about what folks are ultimately shooting for (omega 3 eggs only, tons of fish oil daily, fewer nuts, very little fruit, etc). In other words, how do most folks you work with get from point A to point Z?
Robb Wolf says
Good question, we will hit this.
Have you submitted your pod casts to the Zune marketplace? Not everyone uses an Apple product. 🙂
Robb Wolf says
Have not, will get to that.
Andy Deas says
The primary triggers of my wife’s headaches were stress and it turns out food although she has no allegies.
We do not weigh and measure any of her food. She eats lean meats, quality fats (nuts, avocado, olive oil etc), and tons of veggies (mostly the green leafy kind – she rarely has any fruit or sweet potatoes and didn’t while she was weaning off her medication). A nice side effect of the diet is that she got really lean – much leaner than she was when doing the standard zone. Stress does not bring on migraines now, but she can get one if we go off the rails foodwise if we are on vacation. As long as she eats like this she feels great, looks great, and performs great. As Robb mentioned we have seen several folks be able to eliminate their migraines and get off their meds by really committing to eating like this. I would definitely give it a shot and keep us updated on your progress.
My triggers are light (strobes, flashes of light etc) and smells (perfumes, aftershaves, fabric softners, detergents etc) I am not aware of any food triggers as the two never have coincided. High stress levels or prolonged physical stress (training seminars etc) will wear down the defenses. I would be curious to see (in giving this a shot) since mine are not food triggers if the end result would be similar.