Well, I’d hoped this CrossFit situation would simmer down but HQ is between a rock and a hard place. People are demanding some kind of action regarding Dave Castro but HQ is, as ever, completely unwilling to admit any type of fault. So they are finally offering some commentary on why I was let go and the basic theme is that I used the cert as a promotional opportunity for Paleo Brands and that I have no clinical or scientific background! Here are links from the CFJ (comment 101 and beyond is the meaty stuff) and the Affiliate blog. This was my initial response to Greg Glassman regarding his first post:
I appreciate the statement, although tardy. A few clarifications are in order before putting this whole matter to rest.
1-The seminar I provided was 50% food quality, 50% weighing and measuring. I have nearly 50 complete certs worth of video to prove this point. The 2500+ attendees of the cert can validate this point. My contention has been that food quality is the most important issue. HQ disagrees on this point. I have thousands of data points on this topic that I have collected over the past 5 years. We will see those data sets in a formalized setting in the coming months. I have ALWAYS recommended (look back to the 2003 archives for example) starting with a paleo/quality approach first, then weigh and measure for best effect. What we have seen however are numerous examples of people abandoning Zone proportionality and lack of quality emphasis, and seeing dramatic improvements. Coach Glassman conveniently ignores this information. That’s no longer my concern as I am not a member of HQ and thus not obliged to attempt to fix its shortcomings.
I also apparently have a lack of clinical experience and scientific training! Remarkable. Apparently my CV was poorly circulated at HQ.
2-Coach Glassman is alluding that this is all a PR/marketing stunt to push Paleo Brands. That my insistence on food quality is something new. This is remarkable given my YEARS of consistent message on this topic. NewSpeak lives apparently. This also sounds remarkably similar to when CF NorCal left CrossFit several years ago in a protest of practices endemic to HQ. Our departure changed nothing (as evidenced by the Black Box Summit) but numerous people in CF were told we left to “Join Mark Twight and Gym Jones”. This is straight out of the same playbook.
3-It is ironic given Coach Glassman’s disdain for academia that MD’s and PHD’s mean “quality” or “competence”. An interesting and timely paradigm shift.
I want to make clear that my copyrighted material (the stuff not based on clinical or scientific experience) is NOT to be used at future CF Nutrition certs. It WAS used at the last event despite my communications that it is not to be used.
Off to practice Pseudo-Science and delude the masses…
Glassman then posted his followup comment about insulin/aldosterone/sodium, implying that my seminar lacked substantive content. Interestingly, the pathophysiology of hypertension has been a feature of each cert. Check out the attached video:
Bereft of Science? from CrossFit NorCal on Vimeo.
What is intriguing is they never address what attendees actually GOT from the cert. Were people able to go back to their respective practices and do good work? Were they better at meal planning and helping ANYONE who needed help? From the comments on this blog and the CF message board it would appear I was very successful in helping people. So, despite the attempts at discrediting me, I think folks see through this.
I had a feeling they would begin a character assassination on me because this is exactly what they did when I left CrossFit in the past. I’ll be looking at the character of Greg Glassman and why I previously left CF in subsequent posts.
BTW-
If HQ would like to sponsor a public debate or competition between myself and Barry Sears, I’m game. Any metabolic pathway, any piece of material from general, organic, bio or physical chemistry. Let’s see who knows what. CF is all about competition, let’s do it.
136 Comments
This is the cure to our nutrition woes:
“Let SuperZone™ Cinnamon Buns spice up your breakfast table with its delicious eddies of fresh cinnamon and delicate sweetness. Whether you like your cinnamon bun “naked,” want to dress it up with fresh fruit, or warm it in the oven or microwave, our Cinnamon Bun is sure to make your mouth water.”
Being associated with this crap and the Progenex crap proves Glassman is nothing but a sellout.
Joe-
Yep.
Cybil-
THIS is an interesting piece. All these guys who sing the praises of the zone can not bring themselves to follow the zone and generally do not look very damn healthy. Sisson, Devany, Cordain, Myself, Bastos…researchers, athletes and coaches who largely push the Paleo concept actually DO it. We all look reasonably healthy too. Hmmm…
I’m in agreement with Joe. The MEBB Summit fall-out appears to be less about Paleo vs. Zone and more about power, control and money. If three highly respected members of the CF community can host their own successful seminar outside the constraints/controls of Glassman then CFHQ’s ultimate control of the revenue stream will diminish. The level of hypocrisy in GG’s pontifications on free markets (ideas, trainers, CF affiliates, seminars, etc.) is incredible.
My own history with CF started in ‘04 and I am officially done with it. I’ll continue to read CA, Rut’s page and Robb’s among others but CF, GG and the whole HQ scene is on the shit list.
Thanks for the blog and Podcast, Robb. Keep the faith and fight the good fight.
crossfit led me into the world of HIT and paleo nutrition. taught me how to do real exercise. I will be ever grateful, but their emphasis on keeping the franchise on message, or whatever it is theyre trying to do as they grow, is ironically in contrast with the libertarian ideals that appealed to me. results is what matters. I havent followed the debate, but remember the first thing I read about nutrition in CFJ, after “follow the zone” was “not really because you need 3x, 4x, or 5x fat for good performance.”
Butch-
Have not seen your name in some time. Thanks for the support.
Butch I think you hit the nail on the head. I think you are right about CFHQ is trying to keep the affiliates from dipping into their revenue streams with competing courses. I would not be surprised if the CFHQ Affiliate Agreement is updated in the near future with a “noncompeting clause” for these types of courses.
Hell yeah, Robb. Good to hear you willing to debate and call people out on their bullshit.
Steve-
This is particularly ironic in that affiliates are supposed to turn a blind eye to the fact the market is getting saturated by new affiliates, but HQ would scream foul if we put together an alternate Level 1 program. Why not 5 different Level 1 programs with a % of proceeds going back to HQ? Let the market determine what is good and what is bad? Not likely to get much traction.
Nice. Good stuff Robb.
The Westside video with Budding and Castro was hilarious. Budding didn’t know that powerlifters squat more than they deadlift? He went to Westside to suck up to Louie and apparently he has never looked at the results of a powerlifting meet. Incredible what a fool that guy is. Castro was nearly busted in two by that deadlift. LOL
On the blog for today’s WOD Glassman continues to lie about Wolf. I’m sure it’s not fun to have someone lie about you but you can be sure his lies are obvious and he’s only damaging his own reputation.
This appeared in the comments on today’s (12/12/09) mainsite, very interesting, I think couch er.. coach may be getting a bit frustrated. The first comment is from a guy named Benny and the second is Coach’s response.
“Wow, Louie Simmons. Huge love for his practical knowledge. “This is what works” – oh yeah. I’d love to see more of those exercises and motions because anyone who can figure out efficacy in training by trial and error, and get results like his, is worth paying attention to!
So why is the Nutrition side going in the other direction? Only Dr’s and PhD’s count but tested, practical knowledge is suspect? Come on, the medical community gave us the “Food Pyramid”. But trial and error – and results – gave us Paleo.
JUST like Coach always says, “The science isn’t important – look at the results”. Westside Barbell = results. So does Paleo.
Fix the differences and bury the hatchets boys, the results are more important than the emotions. There are a lot of people who are waiting for reason to prevail.”
Coach’s response
“Benny,
In stating that only MD’s and PhD’s count you’re compounding other light thinkers’ bad reading. That was never stated by anyone, it was a terrific misread of a post of mine where I stated that we were going to run a nutrition cert with PhD’s, and MD’s with clinical experience and a staff with extensive clinical experience to replace the current offering.
The replaced individual responded with the comment that now only PhD’s and MD’s are qualified. You’ve just parroted his nonsense.
Your assumption that we’re moving away from tested clinical knowledge is in fact exactly, perfectly, wrong. You have it entirely backwards.
It would be a mistake to think that having an advanced degree qualified anyone of anything, but it is an improvement to replace a guy claiming to have attended medical school with one who actually did – just as a starting point.
There is no aspect of the nutrition program that is not being improved on. To wit:
1. The staff will have better credentials
2. Have more clinical experience
3. Greater aptitude for science, math, and logic
4. Greater respect for the affiliates and trainers
5. Work with HQ with a collegial spirit
6. Satisfy a growing pressure from the scientific community to improve our nutrition offering.
You ask us to “bury the hatchet”. I needed to replace a trainer openly hostile to HQ with marginal or more accurately NO clinical experience who very publicly called for the elimination of quantifiable methods in nutrition (no weighing and measuring of clients or food). ”
Robb, feel free to take this post down if you feel it’s not too relevant or long or possibly libel (I can’t confirm it’s glassman but I find it hard to believe it’s not).
Also, it was great meeting you at the CFFB cert last weekend, I was the guy with the mustache!
Steve,
If HQ did that wouldn’t they be really close to the line of franchising ?
Jesco-
glassman is “lite” on facts an has been solid at spin in the past. I’m surprised by how little he has come to the table with on this. He is either delining (the assumption of many) or they are really in a tough spot. I’ve said my piece, he will run me down in public and private, not much I can do about that. He did it before, it would be quite a change if he changed this time.
Rob you should keep offering special rob wolf certs to “any gym that wants one…” be your own pimp. Hq was just a middle man
whats with the syntax in that post? its all garbled even more than is typical of him.
was it really necessary to retaliate by saying “bad reading … terrific misread parroting nonsense … assumption … is in fact exactly, perfectly, wrong … backwards.”
i didn’t know anyone could be factually, exactly, and perfectly wrong all at once.
Dan-
it’s pretty telling.
Well, this is what I knew would happen. Amazing considering te time I put in there.
Robb, I tried to post a comment yesterday but it didn’t work (it didn’t even go into the “your comment is awaiting moderation” stage). The comment was quite long but not as long as something I posted the other day.
I wouldn’t mind mind normally, but it was largely a response to Glassman’s affiliate page comments and took me a little time to compose. It’s just sat on my computer at the moment.
I don’t know the first thing about computers and am not used to posting comments so I’m just wondering why it happened. Have I offended the internet?
Hmm, tried it again. “Duplicate comment deleted”. Mystery. It was supposed to come in around comment 89 if that helps.
Seb-
Was that my site? I’m really sorry but I see nothing on this side of things. If you have an internet connection issue…if the internet gods are boing capricious, they can get lost occasionally.
Yeah, and I’ve just tried it again to no avail (edited the comment slightly to avoid duplicate). It contained a couple of naughty words. Maybe that’s it.
Never mind, I just hate it when Glassman is allowed his say and then threads get closed.
Suggestion to all:
If your (long) comment was worth writing (and, I hope, self-editing) before you hit that “Post Comment” button, then it was worth copying and pasting into a temporary text file on your computer (before you send it) and hanging on to until you know it got through.
Unfortunately every great empire eventually meets its untimely downfall. Crossfit is no exception. The theories and methodologies in terms of performance, strength and conditioning I have learned from CF will forever be my base on which to expand. However CFHQ and the higher-ups that run it are all a part of a broken system. Coming from an exercise science degree with multiple certifications (please don’t mistake that for arrogance) I can honestly say CF excommunicated 3 people who truly knew their shit. If Mr. Starrett unexplicably gets canned I’ll scream conspiracy. Robb this is my opinion and mine only but my hope is that you, Rip, Greg and Mr. Welbourn split off to develop your own program/protocol/concept/methology within the strength and conditioning field. I personally believe the knowledge of you 4 would be far in advance of anything HQ could do. Like I said, my opinion only.
Sorry to keep fanning the flames, but I just learned this and posted it to the main site. Anyone who can help me get a better understanding of this would be much appreciated….
This just gets better and better.
Straight from D&B (Dun & Bradstreet, the world’s leading source of
commercial information and insight on business) who does company analysis of all major companies both in the US and abroad. For those of you who don’t know, D&B is a company that major companies depend on for financial information for doing business with other companies. Below is a direct quote from D&B (in quotes)
So, the fitness juggernaut Crossfit, Inc “is a private company categorized under Publishers and located in Prescott, AZ. Our records show it was established in 1982 and incorporated in California. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $5,500,000 and employs a staff of approximately 10.” And guess who the President of this private organization is? Yep, Mr. Greg Glassman. Crossfit, Inc owns all rights and trademarks of Crossfit.
I am struggling with the fact that a publishing company has labled itself as a Fitness and Nutrition company. To the points above, not only is our organization dangerously close to lawsuits for allowing affiliates to begin prescribing dietary and nutrition needs for its clients (which is not legal) based on the coaches comments, but to previous points, they continue to push out L1 trainers who do not understand scaling (perhaps they were taught this in the cert, I do not know), as I have seen up close and personal, and are in danger of really hurting people
As an organization, Crossfit, Inc. needs standards which all affiliates are held accountable. So a question to HQ, how can an affiliate of a publishing company be in the business of personal training, fitness and diet? It’s a rhetorical question.
Someone please help me understand this….
Just so I am not accused of just complaining, I welcome anyone from HQ to email me or give me a call. I will be more than happy to offer solutions on how to solve this lack of standardization and will also be more than happy to share my credentials to show I truly am capable of offering this advice
The hell with what HQ has to say. In all honesty, the only reason I’ve been checking the CF site for the past year and change was to see if you had any up-dated information to share via their journal.
If anything it’s doing me a favor by saving me the $29 and the time of having to visit the site.
All and all buddy, you still have a very real and very strong following!
Back to the awesome and motivating content you’ve held us down with for so long!
- Anthony
Robb,
Melissa and I enjoyed (part of) a bottle of Oveja Negra Cabernet-Syrah last night. Aaaaand, thought of you… Ha. Hope you’re well. Hi to Nicki for us.
Robb,
I’ve been asked many times to publicly comment on this situation on my blog. I won’t fan the flames over there, but I will say you’ve been a good friend and mentor, and Dallas and I owe you a lot for some of the advice you gave us in September. We are, as always, with you.
Looking forward to attending one of your nutrition seminars – and if you need a subsequent write-up, review or guest post, you just have to ask.
On another note, as we recently discovered we cannot run our nutritional consulting practice under the umbrella of our CrossFit affiliate, can you change the links on your page to our private consulting site? We’re at http://www.whole9life.com now. Thanks.
Oveja Negra t-shirts are coming.
Melissa
thanks for the analysis lee. I recall Coach saying his attorneys were Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati which is the top firm in Silicon Valley. Based on what you’ve written, I’m confident he was lying about that. He said that in the context of defending his intellectual property rights. He said when he was trashing Gym Jones.
“When the Gym Jones manual, which Mr. Twight foolishly thought that I’d never see, was revealed to be built entirely from CrossFit concepts for which he took ownership, even liberally, eerily, infused with my idiom and syntax, I was enraged but ultimately decided that the market solution would be more fruitful than legal remedies. Markets are fooled but transiently by affronts like this. (Our law firm, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich Rossati which represents Google, Intel, Sun, Palm, Apple, Hewlitt Packard, Knight Ridder and, of course, CrossFit offered that we’d surely exceed Mark’s net worth in pre-trial motions, and that judgment would likely never be recovered, offered nonetheless to subsidize our efforts. Say what you want about lawyers; ours, and their generosity, are vital to this programs existence.)”
Thanks Melissa, big love to you guys.
Robb,
I’m an affiliate, and lest my comments be taken completely out of context, I’ll try to be more subtle with my comments than is generally the case…
I appreciate your commonsense approach. I agree that quality is where we should start (just could never reconcile how a Zone Bar was good for anyone). I know just how interesting it can be dealing with HQ. I see nothing in what you have written that is inflammatory.
As an aside, my athletes have seen the best results on low carb paleo over zone. Further, MEBB and hybrids have proven superior to out-of-the-box CF programming at my box.
Kudos for sticking to your guns.
Great work on your new podcast.
I look forward to your book.
Sincerely, Adam Stanecki.
Thanks Adam, much appreciated.
Robb,
So, have you been deaffiliated already? They had already taken Crossfit Norcal and Catalyst Athletics out of the list of affiliates on the mainpage, and you and Greg are no longer ‘Affiliates’ in the forum (this hasn’t gone unnoticed on the cathletics forum). However, those morons had forgotten to remove you guys from the list of California affiliates on the Affiliates blog page. I’m a stickler for consistecy so I typed a quick comment (that didn’t get posted but that’s not the point) and they “fixed” this real quick!
))
Oh, and you’re still a CF “Friend” on the mainpage, but who knows how long that will last.
Always glad to help.
Yep, true enough. Time to do a post.
Just to be clear, I wasn’t calling you out. But these days it’s hard to tell who is aware of what, and it seemed plausible that they “removed” you before you had a made a decision yourself or had been informed of theirs. Anyway, laugh/cry, same old same old, just another nugget of classless incompetence on their part (their recycling of Glassman’s “Asshole Barrier” schtick is exquisitely timed, as well).
Thanks Boo.
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