Back with episode 5. In addition to the show notes we are going to start listing key topics that are covered in the episodes to help with the search feature on the site. We lost Robb for about 60 seconds in the middle of the episode so you will notice a period of silence followed by a bunch of wacky noises while I try to get him back on the line. I was originally going to edit it out, but eventually decided that it fits with our low frills approach.
Show Topics:
- Thoughts on the role of dairy in a Paleo diet
- Blood glucose levels
- Transition to Paleo Diet
- Nut intake and substitutions
- Lower carb vs higher carb diets
Show Notes – The_Paleolithic_Solution_Episode_5
Paleolithic Solution – Episode 5
87 Comments
Robb,
Question on the format of your book.
Will this be a published fromat (amazon etc) or will it be a downloadable format similar to the products at the Performance Menu?
Respectfully,
Steven
Two thoughts:
a) to Neal W, the “rational contrarian” above . . . I’m sure Robb will address this better than I can, but surely you could just . . . well, you know, try it for a while? Like you, I admire the folks you are looking to for dietary thinking (Robb, Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald), but surely you could try it out for yourself and see what differences these dietary choices make in YOUR life? In other words, you don’t have to rely on others’ experience (although I wouldn’t suggest ignoring that, either). You can actually find out for yourself.
The risks are low . . . you’re not likely to die, and even a 1-month “setback” in your training and progress won’t kill you (if it turns out this isn’t your best option). Why not just try it?
b) On a purely technical note, I would recommend editing out the sort of 1-minute gap that occurred in this podcast. I can certainly understand the idea of leaving it in, but for anyone downloading it on iTunes and NOT seeing (or bothering to read) the show notes in advance, that was a lonnnnng break . . . long enough to think that maybe the podcast had stopped, or failed, or their playback device had failed.
I’d feel badly if someone quit listening after 30 seconds of silence, missing the nuggets that followed if they’d only hung in long enough. (Sort of like adapting to Paleo . . . but you gotta know that there’s a benefit for waiting it out.)
Thanks Dave, we will get in and tinker with that gap.
This was going to be my main recommendation BTW. Just try it. There are examples out of the bodybuilding camp to follow a more or less gluten free approach, but i’ll hit those later.
Steven-
Published. International distribution. God help us all!
Hey Robb I hav been on raw milk for 2months and listened to ur podcast and am now wondering if I should continue. I was prescribed raw by DR. Ron Schmid naturalpath doc in the north east and author of book untold story of milk. My issues were fungal on toenails constant soreness achy joints and what would say innflamation. His answer was raw milk is nature perfect food and cures loads of illnesses in the body. I eat paleo except for the raw dairy and grassfed butter is main source of fat and olive oil. I am sub 10% bdy fat and my main concern is health and performance now I wonder if I should stop the milk. Dr Ron also suggest just green leafy salads and low carb v eges and sweet potatos and fruit and spagetti squash hav too many carbs are feeding the fungus. I am confused on which direction to take. I apperciate any of your knowledge. Jeremy
Because of the gut healing properties of grass fed butter is pasture grass fed butter the expection for dairy and good for those with Autoimmune Diseases?
If no, would grass fed ghee be good?
Great information on the podcast, Robb.
One little naggling thing – You’re co-hosts mic volume is not balanced with yours: his is too low by comparison.
Other than that, keep it up. I am learning a lot. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
My wife blood sugar levels are improving tremendously as is her general feeling of well-being, by following most of your advice (we’re going strict Paleo with a small amount of fruit).
Thanks to you, I’m following a much shorter duration workout schedule, and feel like I am thriving on it. I was doing straight 3 on/1 off scaled WODS and getting pretty fried. Now I’m down to three days per week of a 5-3-1 strength bias followed by a short, but very intense metcon. I’m shooting to spend no more than 90 minutes per week under heavy exertion per week (5-3-1 + skill work + metcon time).
Thank you.
Thanks Robb, Mike and Dexter for the tips on where to get my caffeine fix! Greatly Appreciated.
Steve-
Pastured butter might be ok for someone with autoimmunity. Id first like to see them go without, opting instead for coconut oil for the gut healing properties.
Jeremy-
tehre is no doubt a large glycemic load, even of paleo carbs, can feed a fungal infection. Do the antimicrobial properties of milk out-way the insulinogenic properties? Are you better off with or without the raw milk? I’m honestly not sure. Try low carb paleo for a month sans dairy. Soak the foot in vinegar 2-3x/day. then try the milk and see what works better.
Robb,
What do you make of this, posted on OPT’s blog about fish oil?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=related
There is ALOT going on here. Could it possibly be that the subjects taking the fish oil in most of the trials are consuming a diet that promotes the excessive oxidization of these polyunsaturated fatty acids? Could it actually be detrimental to take fish oil if you are not on a diet that controls inflammation in the first place? and these polyunsaturated fats are actually feeding the fire? I have never heard of Prof. Peskin so I really do not know how much to take away from this. I guess we would have to take a look at all the studies separately to see what is really going on. Interesting non the less.
Hey Robb,
here’s a company from my neck of the woods that produces raw grass fed butter.
Sorry forgot the web address…
http://Www.organicpastures.com
Robb,
I know you guys really dig the coconut oil. I have been drinking a good amount lately (i.e. 5-6 cans of light coconut milk a week). I have found that coconut milk makes my throat feel a little itchy. I notice light coconut milk causes less itchiness than regular coconut milk. Should I avoid or limit my intake of coconut milk if it is causing this reaction? It almost seems like a minor allergic reaction…
Hey Andy and Robb,
Loving the podcasts. Thank you so much for doing this!
I have an update about KerryGold butter. When Andy mentioned that, I drove out that night to look for it. I miss butter and haven’t touched it for so long (except when going out to eat).
I visited their website and it looks legit but I just can’t believe it is for real! They are supplying massive amounts of grassfed butter to the whole world???
At my local grocery store, there is Kerrygold and also a local creamery’s butter product. Larsen’s Creamery to be exact. Anyway, I gave them a call and ended up chatting with the CEO of the creamery. I wanted to know if the butter is made from grassfed cows? He provided me with some insight on the world of farming that I’m totally ignorant of.
His point is that it is super rare that a cow is only grass fed for their entire life. Depending on the weather where the farm is, there would be times in the year where grass is just not available. Pastures are frozen, covered in snow, too muddly, etc. You would need to stockpile hay or other non-grain feed for those times to ensure your cows are completely non-grain fed. It is possible but rare.
Anyway, I’m having KerryGold right now and it is amazing. However, part of me finds it hard to believe that it is completely grass fed. But maybe its mostly grass fed and there is “grain” milk in there but not so much as compared to other options. Who knows?
xx
Hey Robb,
Saw this on OPT’s webiste. Wondering about your take on these vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g – Prof Peskin’s thoughts on fish oils part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=related – part 2
I’m 36, 6′2, 275lbs, I want to get back to 225lbs. I’m away from the house 14 hours a day. I currently don’t have time or energy to exercise. I’ve been trying this Paleo diet for a week now. I’ve only had one soda and one fast food chicken sandwich. This is a tremendous cutback for me. I’ve gained 3 pounds. How is this possible? The only thing I have to show by trying Paleo is fish oil burps and a pissed off wife! I don’t want to give up. Can I lose weight if I can’t commit to 100% Paleo and not much exercise until my schedule slows down? How much carbs, fat, and protein should a guy my size be eating?
hey robb! love the podcasts ended up leaving a 5 star review on itunes.
Was wondering if next week you could discuss magnesium supplementation and its effect on athletic performance/day-to-day life, dosage (max/min/ g/iu per lb etc), and any experiences you have with it.
Keep up the great work!
Doug, thanks for posting the link to the vids. That was hard to watch…not because I’m an expert on fish oil but because hearing fish oil is bad mojo from an official looking expert causes me a great deal of mental dissonance. What am I to believe?
I was about ready to write down all the journals he referenced and read them on pubmed. I settled down a bit and looked up “Professor Brian Peskin” on google. His home page was the first link on google…the second link and third link talk about Prof. Peskin connected with deception and fraud. Ouch. Not that it invalidates his assertions…just gives me pause.
xx
Hi Rob,
Thanks so much for doing these podcast. I’ve really enjoyed listening to them.
I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about women supplementing with GLA. I’ve been eating strict paleo plus 4 grams(DHA+EPA) of fish oil for about 3.5 month now. 2 month into this my acne started acting up. Also since starting on the fish oil I’ve been bruising pretty easily… I’m always sporting about 2 or 3 pretty good bruises at a time. Would this suggest, that I should I back off of the fish oil a bit and/or consider supplementing with GLA? If so how much would you recommend? If its relevant, I’m at about 130lbs.
Again thanks so much for putting this great resource out there.
~Anne
Re Xi Xia’s comment about Kerrygold, their website does mention that these are grass-fed cows. But while I don’t know that Irish pastures are ever frozen, I myself am skeptical that any large food producer — even one outside the US — makes a product that isn’t industrialized in a way that may affect nutrition.
For now, I’ve been buying ghee made from grass-fed cow butter from Pure Indian Foods (http://www.pureindianfoods.com/). Their ghee is only made from butter made in the non-winter months.
Thanks for all the great info via podcasts and your website. Really looking forward to reading your forthcoming book. Thank you for being so generous with your thinking and resources – “Cast your bread upon the waters, for after many days you will find it again.” (Ecclesiastes 11:1). Maybe we shouldn’t eat bread but it’s a useful prop in wisdom literature!
Robb,
I am curious to get your opinion of medication interaction concerning metabolism and perfromance. I understand that you are not my physcian but I am interested in your thoughts on how the medication I am taking may interact and affect my productivity as I work toward my goals.
To recap as I know you get a lot of questions:
I am currently doing the following:
Goals: Body Comp and gains as possible in S&C
Diet: Paleo
Fish Oil: 6.6 Grams per day (Nordic Naturals)
Vitamin D3: 5000 I.U. per day
Natural Calm: 3tsp per day (recommended dosage)
Sleep – Average About 6-7 Hours Per night ( would say quality is okay and has improved with diet and the NC)
Stress Level – High (work related) (but probably mostly in my head lol)
Training: 2 day – Metcon, 2 Day Strength – 4 Day Skill Set
Sorry, to rehash all that but now to my question.
I take Inderal LA and Topamax to treat migraines. I do not take the Inderal to control blood pressure, I have always had pretty solid numbers in this area. I am on the low end dosage wise for these medicactions. I have severe recuring debilating migraines since my teens and consider it some of the worst pain I have ever experienced as I get the full range of symptoms when I have one. It took several years for my doctor and I trying several different options before we came to actually using medication to treat them. That is one the I love about my doctor medication is usually the last line for her. But with this combination I have not had a migraine in almost a year (average before was 2-3 a month).
I know that all medications obviously have side effects and was wondering what effects these two medications would have on metabolism and peformance? And what adjustments if any you would recommend to work around those effects to still achieve my goals?
Thanks for taking the time to read all of that (sorry for the background).
Respectfully,
Steven
RE Fish oil and inneffectiveness:
I remember when I started to take Omega 3 some years ago at a high dose, it was extremely effective at first and then after 3 months it just didn’t seem to work the same anymore.
I did a bit of research.
Dr Andrew Stoll (psycopharmacologist at Harvard) and author of “The Omega 3 connection” who uses high doses with bipolar patients at Harvard says you must take 500iu vitamin E and 1000 mg vitamin C to stop Omega 3’s from oxidising, as well as eating a diet high in antioxidants.
If you take a lot of omega 3 the cell membranes become saturated with Omega 3’s and without high levels of antioxidants in the diet they can be very easily oxidised and therefore lose their biological activity and secondly form lipid peroxides, which are highly chemically reactive compounds that can damage cell membranes further.
Vitamin E and C must be taken together, Vitamin E is an antioxidant for fats and vitamin C regenerates vitamin E once it has donated it’s electron to keep the fatty acids in the cell membranes from oxidising.
When I added vit E and C as prescribed – within days the effectiveness of the Omega 3 went back up.
I think many people take a lot of Omega 3 without understanding the need to have high levels of anitoxidants in the diet. I bet the studies Peskin talks about are where people with high levels of oxidative stress and poor diets added omega 3 which in turn oxidised and had no effect. Note that many studies were done on people with heart disease and damaged vessels, implying lots of oxidative stress and damage.
Steven-
I do not see those meds as being particularly competitive with leanness. Have you ever tried a fully ketogenic diet? We have seen several people who have suffered debilitating migraines go completely off meds using a ketogenic approach. Andy’s wife (pdocast Andy) had a remarkable improvement.
Hi Robb-Listening to Episode 5, you mention no grains, legumes, dairy and eggs if you are dealing with an autoimmune issue. My 9 year old daughter has Type 1 Diabetes and I’ve not heard “no eggs” before…would like to hear a bit about this. Thanks for talking it up-I always enjoy!
Xi Xia,
Regarding the grassfed cows, it is not that uncommon for cattle to be fed strictly grass no matter the time of year. My family runs a cattle ranch in South Dakota (about 140 beef cows on 5000 acres.) Our cows have been strictly grassfed for the past few years simply because grain is too expensive and grass has been abundant. We have millions of pounds of hay stockpiled for the winter, plus the grass the cattle graze on in the pastures.
A lot of people do feed grain as well because the heavier your calves the more money you get for them. Grain will grow them faster, but it costs more to feed them hence some people go grassfed purely out of necessity.
I’m not arguing with you about what the dairy producer told you, I’m just saying it is possible and more common than you might think.
Here are a couple of studies adressing the need for extra vitamin E when Omega 3 is taken:
Fish oil and vitamin E go together
BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32 to 44 were involved. The men consumed a controlled diet for a total of 28 weeks. For the first 10 weeks they received placebo oil capsules (15 g/day), for the next 10 weeks they received fish oil capsules (15 g/day), and for the last 8 weeks they received the fish oil plus 200 mg of vitamin E (all-rac-alpha-tocopherol). The urinary excretion of peroxidation products (malondialdehyde) more than doubled when the fish oil capsules were introduced but then dropped by a factor of four when vitamin E was added. The vitamin E concentration in the red blood cells dropped very significantly when fish oil was ingested but more than recovered with the vitamin E supplement. It is concluded that the negative effects of fish oil consumption can be overcome by taking them together with vitamin E.
Nair, Padmanabhan P., et al. Dietary fish oil-induced changes in the distribution of alpha-tocopherol, retinol, and beta-carotene in plasma, red blood cells, and platelets: modulation by vitamin E. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 58, July 1993, pp. 98-102
Fish oil supplements increase requirements for Vitamin E
LONDON, ENGLAND. A recent experiment carried out at King’s College in London showed that daily intake of fish oil supplement reduces the plasma concentration of vitamin E to below normal range. Nine healthy male subjects were given a daily fish oil supplement containing 2.1 g docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and 0.8 g eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) for a six week period. The proportion of DHA and EPA in the blood increased during the trial while the concentration of very-low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol and triacylglycerol decreased. Blood pressure fell slightly during treatment, but rose again once the fish oil supplementation was discontinued. Of particular interest was the finding that alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) concentration in the blood fell from 20 micromol/l to about 10 micromol/l during the experiment. This raises the question whether fish oil supplementation increases the need for antioxidant supplementation.
Sanders, T.A.B. and Hinds, Allison. The influence of a fish oil high in docosahexaenoic acid on plasma lipoprotein and vitamin E concentrations and haemostatic function in healthy male volunteers. British Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 68, July 1992, pp. 163-73
Steven -
Just thought I would follow-up on Robb’s post regarding my wife and her migraines. My wife also suffered debilitating migraines since she was a teenager (would literally be in bed for 1-2 days at a time). Her physician had her experiment with a number of medicines before finally settling at 200 mg of topamax a day. At that dosage she had no migraines, but we become concerned about long term side effects and we continued to look for other options. After some prodding from Robb she gave a strict ketogenic Paleo diet a try. She ate meats, quality fats, and veggies and never cheated. After a few months on this we worked with her doctor to slowly ween her off the medication to see how she would respond. The first month we lowered it by 25 mg and she had no migraines so we continued to ween her off the meds over a 9 month period until she was med free. Fast forward a year later – no meds and no migraines as long as she keeps up with her keto paleo diet (although now she will eat some fruit, sweet potatoes, and rice from time to time).
On a side note we did not notice a performance degradation with her on this diet. If you haven’t tried a strict keto paleo diet it may be worth a try – it was a life changer for my wife.
Another great podcast, gentlemen. Thanks.
Quick question about paleo cheating. Currently I do NOT use a cheat day, but rather I do use 3 cheat meals throughout the week. Typically these are impromptu lunches I have with clients as a normal course of business. Additionally, I rationalize that I’m able to easily shrug off 1 semi-crappy meal versus an entire day of semi-crappy meals.
Then I came across DePasquale’s work, and the resulting conversation with a friend of mine turned into a discussion about carb-loading, anabolic effects, etc. Her argument is that the “cheat” is more than simply a psychological break from the strictness of the diet, and that the carb-loading indeed has an anabolic effect.
Generally speaking, is there merit to her argument…and to DePasquale’s work?
Thanks,
Mark
Robb/Andy,
Thanks for the responses.
Robb – I have considered trying a ketogenic diet. Currently, from non-vegetable source I have my carbohydrates down to about 65 grams per day. A small amount of fruit in the morning and sweet potato in the evening post workout. All other meals at this point are just protein, vegetables, and some nuts. I am working on getting that even lower. I am trying to not go to weighed and measured at this point but it was somewhat necessary to get a starting to point on the carbohydrate issue. I do eat a fair amount as (well as variety) of vegetables with each post breakfast meal. So, there is still a fair amount of tinkering going on. Would you recommend a ketogenic diet after getting leaner? I know in one of the podcasts you mentioned that the homormonal reponses to everything are different when leaned out.
Andy,
What were your wifes triggers? If you don’t mind me asking. I am on 60mg of the inderal and 100mg of the Topamax and to be honest it is a frighting prospect to back to that. It may be that as I asked Robb above one I get to my body comp goals that will be the next thing I tackle. However, I seem to be on the shortbus when it comes that!
It is encouraging to hear that is controlable without medication.
Thanks again.
Respectfully,
Steven
Hi Robb,
Like others I’ve really enjoyed the podcast, so thanks. I was wondering if you could layout what you think phases of moving from a SAD to a paleo diet might look like. Meaning, do you have a sort of N Phase Plan for moving people to “perfect” paleo? You touched on this in your first podcast when discussing heavy(ish) nut consumption being ok for folks new to paleo, but you also have some fairly strong feelings about what folks are ultimately shooting for (omega 3 eggs only, tons of fish oil daily, fewer nuts, very little fruit, etc). In other words, how do most folks you work with get from point A to point Z?
Robb,
Have you submitted your pod casts to the Zune marketplace? Not everyone uses an Apple product.
Wayne-
Have not, will get to that.
Tim-
Good question, we will hit this.
Steven,
The primary triggers of my wife’s headaches were stress and it turns out food although she has no allegies.
We do not weigh and measure any of her food. She eats lean meats, quality fats (nuts, avocado, olive oil etc), and tons of veggies (mostly the green leafy kind – she rarely has any fruit or sweet potatoes and didn’t while she was weaning off her medication). A nice side effect of the diet is that she got really lean – much leaner than she was when doing the standard zone. Stress does not bring on migraines now, but she can get one if we go off the rails foodwise if we are on vacation. As long as she eats like this she feels great, looks great, and performs great. As Robb mentioned we have seen several folks be able to eliminate their migraines and get off their meds by really committing to eating like this. I would definitely give it a shot and keep us updated on your progress.
Andy,
My triggers are light (strobes, flashes of light etc) and smells (perfumes, aftershaves, fabric softners, detergents etc) I am not aware of any food triggers as the two never have coincided. High stress levels or prolonged physical stress (training seminars etc) will wear down the defenses. I would be curious to see (in giving this a shot) since mine are not food triggers if the end result would be similar.
Respecfully,
Steven
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