Here is a response from Greg Everett about the BBS.
So, in the spirit of free speech and assuming people are smart enough to discern the facts on their own, here is Russell Berger’s account of the Black Box Summit. Read mine, Read Greg’s, read the comments of ALL the attendees…perhaps someday we will see the entire videos…and of course, read Russell’s account. Then you make your own decision. I was asked to remove the link that was here before, so here is the original content:
I attended as a guest of Tony Budding and Dave Castro, and intended to review the seminar and possibly write an article for the journal on my experience. The following is a brief summary of the events that took place.
Jeremy Thiel opened the event with a dynamic and exciting presentation of the charter for the Black Box Summit—Building a stronger CrossFit community through sharing experiences and knowledge related to running a CrossFit Affiliate.
From there Thiel discussed the brand of CrossFit, and the dynamic relationship that exists between affiliate owners and CrossFit Headquarters. Thiel congratulated HQ for having no desire to regulate affiliates, and leaving it up to the community to shape their own destiny. He gave us a positive message about the need for communication and discussion, rather than the tearing-down of CrossFit he had seen in events like the Greyskull article.
He followed with a fantastic explanation of what it takes to be an affiliate. He drew a triangle on the board. At the bottom was service and humility, something he had seen demonstrated directly by Greg and Lauren Glassman. On top of that rested the twin angles of the CrossFit Affiliate- raw, killer intensity and professionalism in training. The pinnacle of the triangle is excellence. Jeremy explained that Affiliates that embodied this triangle wiould succeed on every front.
Nicki spoke next, and gave a different opinion. She encouraged Affiliates to “Fly two Flags”, or give your business one name that included the word CrossFit, and another that did not. She explained that this would act as a form of “damage control”, and give you the ability to market to clients who had had “bad experiences” at other affiliates.
I asked Nicki if she had experience with any other method for dealing with weaker affiliates in her area. Nicki explained that this hadn’t happened to them, but their concern came from CrossFit impersonators using names like “X-Fit”.
OPT approached me later, “The answer to your question”, he said “ is to take some responsibility and reach out to that weaker affiliate.” OPT explained that like any business, it is your job to make sure your brand is well-represented, and if it is not, you need to take on a leadership role, forge a good relationship with that weak affiliate, and help them improve their product.
Next, Dutch and Robb discussed the pitfalls and failures that could easily arise from not being a “Quality” Affiliate, and Robb criticized CrossFit certifications for not requiring the same knowledge of anatomy and physiology as other certifications found in the fitness industry.
At the end of day one, the CrossFit Central staff put us through a fun, short workout. Thiel and Kepler moved through their staff, motivating and coaching CrossFitters. The rest of the Summit staff retreated to their own separate strength workout, ironically right after the emphasis on quality training.
On Saturday, Robb’s nutrition lecture covered the basics of indoctrinating new clients into the Paleo diet, and mentioned a number of helpful tools like Affiliate challenges, before and after pictures, and monthly nutrition classes to use for motivating clients. He also gave a number of examples of elite athletes who performed on an “Unweighed and unmeasured Paleo diet”.
After lunch on the second day, Greg Everrett took the floor and presented a power-point presentation on teaching Olympic lifts to CrossFitters. Dutch Lowy introduced Greg as a former CrossFitter, to which Greg replied “We all make mistakes.”
His lecture opened with his thoughts on the Snatch event in the CrossFit games, which centered on the poor technique displayed in a number of the lifts. This went on for some time, until Greg made his first assertion, that the winner of the Women’s snatch event, Tamara Holmes, needed more Olympic lifting training. He showed us video of her winning lift, a 145 pound power-snatch and shared his disgust at the appearance of the lift. He then showed video of Tamara easily power-snatching 165 at a lifting meet a few weeks later. Greg didn’t mention the context of it being Event 6 of the Games, but held that all CrossFitters needed more Oly-lift training based on this example.
Next, Greg showed us a still image of Annie Sakamoto doing a barbell clean superimposed next to what looked like a competitive Olympic lifter cleaning upwards of 200 kilos. Greg used this comparison to pick apart the form Annie was displaying, and the techniques CrossFit uses to teach the lifts. He claimed, while looking at a still image, that Annie had shrugged the bar up instead of generating the force with her hips, and said that this was incorrect, pointing out the low shoulders of the competitive lifter. He then showed us how the shoulders should float up naturally as an after-effect of the violent hip-extension in the clean, finishing his point with “I guess I go back and forth on this one”
Greg then moved to the next image, Nicole Carroll cleaning a Dynamax medicine ball superimposed next to another competitive lifter mid-clean. Greg laughed mockingly and said “I’m not even going to get into that”.
From the audience, Dave Castro spoke up, telling Greg to “Get into it”.
Greg looked at Dave and said, “Maybe later sweetheart.”
To which Dave asked, “Did you just call me sweetheart you fat fuck?”
After a moment of silent tension, Greg continued his lecture and Dave remained silent and seated until he was finished. Greg again mocked the photo of Nicole, and demonstrates the ineffectiveness of having ones feet “leave the ground that far” during a medicine-ball clean. The rest of Greg’s lecture consisted of weightlifting nuances, mostly targeted towards explaining how the methods both Rippetoe and CrossFit teach were incorrect.
At the end of the presentation, Dave approached Greg, and asked him to step outside where they could discuss what had just happened. I learned from Dave a short while later that Dutch Lowy had asked him to leave. As Dave was leaving, however, Thiel asked him to stay.
At the end of our second day, we all did a team workout consisting of pull-ups, deadlifts, wall-ball shots, and 800m sprints. While The CrossFit Central Staff worked to make the event happen, and Thiel supervised, the rest of the Seminar staff again retreated to a corner of the gym where they did their own strength workout. They didn’t coach or interact with any of us.
On Sunday, after a number of interesting and even moving lectures from OPT and Carey Kepler, we began a discussion on programming. All of the speakers present, with the exception of Thiel and Kepler, had expressed the necessity of using additional strength-building and maximal effort workouts when programming.
The weekend was wrapped up with Thiel’s optimistic vision of a stronger CrossFit community, and his thanks to the many participants who had traveled to his affiliate for the weekend.
Erik Hayes says
I am going to revoke my payment to Crossfit for this class. It is obvious from reading your blog that you should be the Lecturer. Its about the information, not the piece of paper we take away from it. Will you still hold a Nutrition Lecture at NorCal Jan 31st for those that want to hear what YOU have to say?
Billyboy says
if somebody gets a copy of the Berger’s account of what happened that would be great. I can’t seem to access it from facebook.
Loni says
I am not facebook savvy. Any other way I can view Russell’s account?
Lisbeth says
Robb — please take my name off your blog. it is not fair to bring my personal page into your dispute. I will not be accepting any friend requests on Facebook. Feel free to copy and paste Russell’s account whereever you wish.
Noah says
I’ll say it again.
People aren’t necessarily going to a CF Nutrition seminar to hear about the zone & CF. We can all pick up Sears Zone book at a used book store for $5 bucks. People go to the CF Nutrition Cert to hear Robb and his knowledge and expertise.
The fact that they don’t see that is mind boggling and I hope they will offer a refund to all those who have paid and registered in this case.
That being said, I TRULY believe you should continue doing Nutrition Certs on your own. You have enough cred and community here to do so.
I enjoyed Greg’s post as well.
Leo S says
Robb – If we accept in fact that you’re a liar especially lying flat out to Steve Liberati who’s trying to support a great & noble course – than all this argument you’re trying to put up shines in an entirely different light.
You will probably not post this comments, same way you’ve been avoiding this question, but I have to say “Bravo” for quite a media stunt you indeed pulled. How long till the new & improved spin-off CrossFit is going to come out? Couple of weeks? Because they were dishonest to you or because you planned it all along?
Too bad some things get in the way. Like lack of integrity. And you didn’t think people would notice?
Robb Wolf says
Leo-
I just responded to you on FB. Sorry I was not HOPP-toing it fast enough for you.
Here is all that so I can save you the trouble of looking there:
I contacted Steve when Paleo Brands first come online and I told him we would support him. We would donate to his 5013c. Now Leo, we need to actually make some money with Paleo Brands to be able to do that.
The only “Paleo Brands Vs Paleo Kits” rivalry that exists is in the spin doctors heads. Did you notice this is a whole food company? Frozen fish, grass fed meat? Yet again, entrepreneurism and an attempt to improve the community are met with bile on the part of HQ.
When we first started Paleo Brands Glassman was all over me about starting a food company. His main concern? that it might be successful. At the summit Dave said HQ had concerns about a SME having affiliation with a food company. Apparently this concern does not extend to Barry Sears!
So Leo, I don’t know if this response satisfies all your concerns. it’s the best I have right now. I’d ask you and other people to judge my previous actions and work in the community and give me an opportunity to further serve. Judge me critically, hold me to the standards of what I have said. No spin, no hyperbole. Accountability.
Leo, I’ve generally liked you but you are commentating on something you have no idea what is going on. HQ has set Steve’s Club up as a means of discrediting me in all this. Fine. Again, the central theme of why Dave is not being censured in all this is remarkable. And yes leo, I will have a seminar at some point. The irony here is If I get out and do ANYTHING then I profiteered on the community (in HQ’s eyes). Very convenient. The glassman spin that I have machinated all this is just like when he told everyone I left CF to join Mark Twight. Glassman is a liar, people in the community will testify to that fact. This is the same tired story played out again, that I’m orchestrating this for effect. Believe what you want Leo.
Ben Chapman says
I think if I ever have my own gym, I will make shirts with the caption on the back “maybe later sweetheart”
mikes says
It seems people have nothing but respect for you and what you do. If crossfit is truly an open-source fitness framework, then the community will decide who succeeds and who does not.
cameron says
The most telling thing about Russell’s account is what he doesn’t say. Other than characterizing the tone of a few presentations as critical of CrossFit, his account is basically the same on all the big picture stuff. A few attempts at humor appear to be taken out of context, and he suggests that there is some elitism among a few presenters, but suggests nothing awful, even it it were all true.
However, at no point does he counter or refute the detailed account of Dave Castro’s tirade. Nor does he offer testimony that anyone else was similarly inappropriate. It strikes me that if he disagreed with Robb’s description, he’d have at least said “Dave didn’t do the things Robb says he did.”
Robb Wolf says
Cameron-
Yep. And the response from HQ? Ignore it. Oh well, their call on that but it sends a clear message.
ChrisCFW says
Man, I hate all this kind of stuff. Leaves me feeling icky – and I don’t like feeling icky.
I remember reading Greg’s PM article on professionalism in the fitness industry. Everyone should read that – he speaks the truth.
Being a UK affiliate, I’m geographically distant from all the internal politics of CrossFit – which can be a blessing at times.
I’m gonna give a list of things which have stood out for me in all this:
1. Egos are ruining the image and “feel” of CrossFit.
2. “CrossFit” the philosophy and “CrossFit Inc” are NOT the same thing.
3. CrossFit as a philosophy is inspiring and has made 1000’s of people’s lives better.
4. People should stop trying to control the philosophy of CrossFit and trying to make it into a system which is set in stone and can’t evolve. This is the danger when an idea turns into an organisation.
5. If someone disagrees with something you are doing – IT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A PERSONAL ATTACK. What you are doing and who you are, are two completely different things. If someone says your lifting technique sucks, it is not the same thing as them calling you a dick!… People really need to chill out when discussing training ideas and start being objective.
I’d have loved to be at the Black Box Summit as the information sounds amazing and ALL of the speakers are people who I respect and whose work I read on a daily basis.
Robb Wolf will always be my “Main Nutrition Homeboy” wherever he is and whoever he works with/for. Greg Everett is the MAN when it comes to Oly. I’m sorry they’ve both been caught up in this kind of wrangling.
I’ve not had any personal dealings with the HQ staff mentioned and I wasn’t at the Summit so I have no business commenting further beyond what I’ve written.
Hope this all works out OK for the community as a whole in the end.
Robb, please keep me posted on any UK certs you’re trying to organise – I’d like to help however I can 🙂
Leo S says
Robb – as I have responded again and I’ll post it here:
Robb – no. You’re still avoiding the original question. What you said was indeed:
“this is a whole food company? Frozen fish, grass fed meat?” You specifically told Steve that you wouldn’t compete with Paleo Kits. You lied.
Talk about this. Say “No, I’ve never said anything like that” or say “Yes. I am indeed a liar trying to cover shit up”.
Don’t hold me as stupid here. Don’t try to side track me.
Don’t go in politics, the HQ, the hyperboles & spin doctors.
I asked you a straight up question. Answer it.
And it’s not by CFHQ. Merely I happened to see the dialogue between you and Steve as public comments on your website. And now I’m using it to question your integrity, while you’re trying to throw me off by waddling around.
A simple “Yes” or “No” would suffice yet I haven’t heard either that yet.
Robb Wolf says
Leo-
When I told that to Steve it was my understanding that this was to be a frozen food company. The addition of the snacks came after this and I told steve we would donate a % of profits from that. We need to actually make some profits to do that. If this makes me a liar, then guilty as charged.
chris says
Hey Coach Wolf!
Something I am confused about and asked Everett about is: the whole situation seemed to be between him and castro and at some point during the “disagreement” you jumped in and commented on HQ being unable to take criticism – then some exchange of words – then you saying they can take your job and shove it – Im failing to see how the issue has now jumped into your lap, and what seems like ONLY your lap. It seems the problem/disagreement/issue/attack was at Everett (saying youre the leach-you should de-affiliate-you hate crossfit) to now you-Robb- are being the only one fired and pushed out. To me it doesnt make sense. It seems like maybe there has been a problem some people have had with you and decided this is the best time to take you out. It seems more or less personal against you.
As I told Everett, this really has nothing to do with anyone except the people involved BUT I will flat ass out say with honesty I would not be the trainer/athlete I am if it wasnt for you, so some how I kind of feel involved. I guess in some aspect this is a situation like “My names paul and thats between y’all” but I feel like this is some how going to affect me and actually I hope it does (I havent sent my email to you yet.)
It seems like Castro assessed the situation in his head and looked at Greg, who is larger, fitter, lifts more, has a chin shaped from stone, beady eyes and a push jerk that would crush your face and then looked at you…..who used to wear glasses…… and decided to direct this towards you. Its kind of how when I get in a fight and if the other person is larger, I punch his girlfriend in the face first.
Anyways, it seems personal against you. And that upsets me. Because I have spent time with you, learned from you, pestered you with questions and have never heard a negative thing from you about CF or its staff. Ive personally seen you defend Glassman; even when I attacked him. You do have this other “information” on the hard drive and are dangerous for it, which spilling it may not be necessary, but it seems personal between y’all.
And as far as commenting to the conspiracy theorists out there, ill say the same thing I told Everett……You BOTH are fracking liars…! Ive personally seen the blueprints/diagrams/emails/telegraphs/coded ciphers and maps of your long time planned destruction of CF. Your motto “Death to the Empire” I can remember being yelled at the end of your seminars in which the second day involved giving us LSD and telling us to switch sides. I also have information/video on how you and Everett have been involved in 9/11 – WWII – the killing of Jesus – Princess Diana and the destruction of dinosaurs. Everett means “devil” in eskimo so it all makes sense now……. 😉
Robb Wolf says
Chris-
that was some inspired writing. Amazing!
Michael says
I was at the BBS and completely support Robb and Greg in this dispute. Robb is teaching his knowledge of nutrition that is way beyond anyone in the CrossFit Community. He’s been studying AND working with people on nutrition for years which nobody else besides James Fitzgerald that I know of has done that. Greg handled the attack of Dave very well in staying calm while Dave stormed up to the front of the room (while all attendees were still sitting there) and chewed Greg out, this is when Dutch and Greg asked them to step out side where I could see Dave continue to do most of the talking while Greg stayed fairly calm.
If you say all of the instructors began their own “strength bias” workout while the attendees did the normal CF wod you were seeing something different. Yes, Greg, Amy, and Dutch did their oly lifting which is what they are specializing in. Greg and Amy are oly lifters that teach CF too. Dutch admitted to focusing on oly lifting right now b/c it’s fun for him but he eventually said he will come back to “CF Wods”. All the other instructors did the Central wod (including Rut man)
The BBS was the best thing I’ve ever been a part of in the CF community and hope they continue.
Robb I hope you continue to do seminars and I would love to host one of your first ones down here in MS as I’d already started trying to get you for 2010 anyway.
Yael Grauer says
Calling out Robb for lack of integrity or somehow attempting to characterize something that’s been happening to good people involved with CF for many many years as a media stunt is just about the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. I have seen Robb basically bend over backwards to avoid conflict, silently ignoring the masquerade to avoid drawing attention to it in order to be in a position to really help people which he has undoubtedly done. If anyone was planning an elaborate media stunt it would’ve been done a long time ago.