We officially have a title which means we got good feedback on our first episode and no one went deaf listening to Robb and I talk so here is episode 2 for your enjoyment. We got a ton of good questions after the first episode – please keep them coming. I also attached some show notes so you can see the questions that we are working from.
Paleolithic Solution – Episode 2
Show Notes – The Paleolithic Solution Episode 2
We are now on iTunes. If you like the podcast please write a review for us on iTunes. Note that we are listed as explicit because although I try to keep Robb in check he does swear from time to time. 
62 Comments
I just got done with listening to the second podcast and I can’t wait for the next one! You talked a lot about fish oil which got me thinking about something. I always hear the concern that high doses of fish oil can lead to a problem with excessive bleeding. Is this something that law enforcement and military folks need to worry about?
Also, what about large doses of fish oil and there effect on people with heart arrhythmias? I have seen studies that say they decrease the incidents of arrhythmias, and I have seen the opposite. What is your position on this?
Thanks!
Loni-
the bleeding issue can be real for military personnel. Individuals who are deployed or facing deployment we tend to cap at 2.5g/day. Arrhythmia’s…not sure on all that, will need to follow up.
Number 1 with a bullet, man. This Podcast Solution is turning out VERY well.
Hey Robb –
This is Margo from Red Bluff! I’m loving the podcasts… what a great way to get info out there. As so many have voiced – it’s so awesome that you are willing to put all this info out here for us. THANK YOU.
I feel like I need some hand holding though! You suggested subbing out nuts for avocado (yum), unfortunately they aren’t in season year around OR you suggested using coconut (only so many uses). So for clarification is the goal here to sub with something that has less saturated fat (although the coconut would be medium chain sat) or is just to get away from the nuts regardless of what you sub for it?
Thanks again!
Margo
Frackin’ excellent podcast. I sincerely hope you will continue!
Hey Margo!!
the sub is actually to reduce n-6 fats and also some potential gut irritants in the nuts. I;d roll with coconut and coconut milk.
Come hit an OL class with us sometime!
Hey Robb,
Love the podcast. Great info. I attended Dr. Sears seminar on Sunday and he explained why he likes to avoid saturated fat. He said that saturated fat activates NF-?B (nuclear factor kappa-light-chain-enhancer of activated B cells) which in turn causes inflammation. In light of this, is coconut milk/oil not ideal or is this not a major thing to worry about?
By the way, as you stated in your post ‘Barry Sears IS Paleo!!’, he is on board with Paleo when it comes to quality as he stated that a strict Zone diet is “Never eat anything that didn’t exist 10,000 years ago: no grains, no vegetable oils, no milk or dairy products, no caffeine, no alcohol.” He also supports eating copious amounts of veggies for their polyphenol/anti-inflammatory properties. He just takes things a step further with his approach to balancing carbs and protein inside that window of 0.5 to 1.0 protein to carbs. While that ratio is debatable, I just want to get the message across to everyone that if one is doing true Zone, you are Paleo. Zone bars, shakes, Molecular Baking, etc. are all just products that allow someone to eat in the Zone without the quality. His view is that it’s better to eat a bagel that has a balance of protein and carbs as opposed to a bagel that’s all carbs. Summing this up, I think Barry put it best when he said on Sunday that, “My goal is for you to never buy one of my products again.” But knowing that the majority of America won’t eat just real food, he’s trying to help them by doing what he sees as the next best thing: selling quick and easy balanced and yes, processed foods. I’m not trying to be a voice for The Zone but I just wanted to point out how close The Zone and Paleo really are. Lastly, he did acknowledge the athletes zone when I asked him a question at the end of the seminar. I made sure to after you have always talked about the Athlete’s Zone only being mentioned very briefly in one of his books. Thanks again Robb, sorry for the long post.
Thanks for the help Robb!!
OL class – I would love it!! Unfortunately I’m having knee issues and am going under the knife in Dec and then again in the Spring. Count me in next summer!!
I definitely agree with you on the “omega-3s” vs. EPA+DHA. I’ve seen that on A LOT of brands nowadays which means they’re probably being shady as well. I only buy fish oil that has specific EPA+DHA amounts on it now, and tend to try to stay away from the rest of everything else. Don’t want any other junk in there.
Good stuff. Keep on podcasting.
Oh yeah, also if you could get EMI and/or Vitamin D up on your links that would be great! I should be posting a nice 5 part series on lower body dysfunctions starting this Sunday which would be good to get people exposure to as well.
Steven-
Will do! Just forgot to get to it!
Mark-
Great stuff. I like Barry and his ideas a bunch. What has happened is this weird pissing match/squabbling over ideas between myself and elements of HQ. This is WHY Barry and the Zone are getting such airplay of late to counter the “pro-paleo” message Welbourn and I have been “peddling”. Interestingly however the debate has only existed in some peoples heads. I’ve ALWAYS pushed the message “food quality first, proportionality second”. One would think that would be fairly un-controversial but alas, life is seldom easy this way!
The Molecular Baking issue is an interesting one. I’ve been working in a blog post about it but in short I called their tech people and talked to them about the process. It boils down to they have taken standard bagels and baked goods and fluffed up the protein content with WHEAT GLUTEN and milk protein!! Anti inflammatory? The assumption that protein+carb+fat blunts insulin release is wrong…tons of papers show this and I’ll launch into that in the post. Given what we know about the inflammatory nature of gluten and the insulin spiking properties of dairy I’d have to say a normal bagel is better than the Molecularly Baked variety. Some simple lab tests will either support or deny my assumption.
So, I appreciate the sentiment that Barry is trying to make a bad situation better, I’m just not sold he is achieving that end.
Hey Robb,
Thanks for the quick response. Do you have anything on saturated fats being more inflammatory than monounsaturated fats because saturated ones activate NF-kB? I’m definitely not smart enough to judge that statement. Thanks!
Thank-you.
Can’t overstate the value of these.
Hi Robb,
Thanks for another great podcast.
I wondered if you could give me any advice on a couple of my own ongoing small issues.
As I have written about previously, I have recently added paleo choices to the zone diet and it made residual auto immune issues resolve. (http://robbwolf.com/?p=769 , very mild lupus) However blood tests a couple of months ago (after about 4 months paleo) showed I was borderline low in B12 and folic acid (just below ideal range). Haemoglobin, ferritin and blood cells all good.
My thryroid function also showed borderline high TSH 5.1, t4 okay.
All other blood tests good.
I’ve cut out all legumes, grains, potatoes and dairy but not eggs, would this be appropriate? – Cordain says to cut eggs with auto immune issues.
I take no medication – and not much alcohol.
Have upped vitamin D and have also added iodine, folic acid caps and B12 injection. I already take a multi and lots of Omega 3.
My dad (a doctor) thinks its all part of the mild autoimmune problem. I’d like to get at the cause and resolve it – any thoughts? It appears I’m not absorbing B12 or folic acid (and who knows what else) and my thyroid is under attack. I’m 50 by the way. I’ve never had these tests before so it may not be a new thing, just newly discovered.
Oh yes – also have Raynauds, not too bad though, don’t know if you’ve been able to help anyone with that?
Julianne
Thanks for doing a podcast, I’ve always wondered why you didn’t before, but just assumed you were too busy. Keep it up!
Hi Robb,
I notice you frequently talk about insulin spiking properties of different foods, and I have also seen some the info you are talking about with respect to dairy and insulin spiking. I notice this too for myself, I get hungry really quickly after eating yogurt for example. (Not that I eat dairy any more)
The other issue I notice with myself and some clients is getting the carb amount at a meal right. If I have too little carbs at a meal – I have this nagging hunger as my blood sugar is not up to a point that I feel ‘just right’ at. I’ve noticed that I want to keep eating to get that ‘just right’ feeling. One thing I notice about the Zone amount of carbs at a meal is that I get that feeling that I’ve had the right amount of carbs but not too much (with me this is 2 blocks carbs at a meal, 3 is too much, 1 is too little) Usually what works is a balance of quick release carbs like a little pumpkin (buttercup squash) or sweetpotato or fruit (to get the blood sugar up) plus a lot of non starch veggies. That way I feel just right but also don’t eat the wrong carbs or proteins that cause an insulin spike.
On the other hand just eating non starch veggie carbs leads to quicker fat loss, but I have to wait about half an hour after a meal before I feel my blood sugar has gone up enough.
I’ve noticed that some women in particular slimmer pear shapes just don’t tolerate lower carbs.
Atkins for example makes them feel terrible, not energised.
I’d be interested to hear if this is your experience.
In my nutrition studies a couple of years ago we were given this paper with regards to fat loss on either a higher carb or lower carb diet in women. Some lost weight better on higher carb, some on lower carb depending on whether they were high insulin secreters or low.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
“A low-glycemic load diet facilitates greater weight loss in overweight adults with high insulin secretion but not in overweight adults with low insulin secretion in the CALERIE Trial.”
I do cut carbs a lot in people with obvious insulin resistant issues. But some people whom I suspect are low insulin secreters don’t tolerate it and they do better on a straight zone balance with a little quick release carbs at each meal.
I’m just wondering about your thoughts and experience here.
Julianne
I don’t understand why HQ is so anti-paleo and trying so hard to push the Zone over paleo, especially when they suggest in the Foundations article to research paleo because it is compelling and in accordance with CrossFit. It makes it even more confusing when Barry Sears himself says to not eat grains, dairy, etc. They say paleo is pseudo science and Zone isn’t, yet the Zone recommends a paleo approach to food types. Where is the disconnect? What do they have against paleo? There’s got to be something more. Do they get kickbacks from Barry Sears?
Early 2010?!?! That’s terrific news, Robb!
Thanks for the podcast —
FYI –> I know you mentioned that fish oil caps should be kept in the fridge or freezer, and when I used to take them I noticed that keeping them in the freezer slowed their “meltdown” in my stomach and completely eliminated the infrequent fish-burps I would get.
I’m now on liquid Nordic Nats cod liver oil, and was bummed to hear about the A blocking the D (Bad News Cordain strikes again!). If I take my D supplements hours apart from my cod oil consumption, can I skirt this assimilation problem?
Looking forward to early 2010!!!
Mark
thanks for the site and podcast
you ask for supplement questions so – what about creatine? i have read that it helps recover. as a 39yr old crossfitter who has no interest in “bulking” would creatine be useful to aid in recovery from workouts and maybe allow me to workout more often or with greater intensity?
thanks
Thanks guys for the wonderful discussion on fish oil and nuts. I’ve been wanting to upgrade from the Costco fish oil…
In your future discussion of various supplements, I’d like to hear more about supplements to strengthen the immune system to counteract the effects of heavy training.
I agree that it just doesn’t “seem paleo” to eat large amounts of nuts. I wonder if some people are just way more sensitive to leptins than others and that is why some people can eat the jarful of almond butter and others cannot.
Can eggs irritate the gut or be inflammatory? Is there a significant difference between free range/omega 3 eggs vs. industrial factory farm eggs in terms of effect on the gut and/or inflammation?
I am really looking forward to your book(s) and future podcasts.
Podcasts are awesome and I am looking forward to them on a long drive this weekend.
Regarding Paleo vs Zone: It is too late to comment more than, as a coach it is both way easier and better in the long run for everyone, that I coach at least, to be on Paleo. The hassles between HQ and you are unfortunate. You help a lot of people with serious health issues, let that _evidence_ guide your actions.
Love the show notes! I wish podcasts could have a tag like that too. ;(
I’ve got my gym listening in now! Keep up the great work!
Great podcasts.
I just want to point people towards a great resource compiled by the crossfit board community (props to Jae Chung). We have a wiki style spread sheet pointing to many sources of Omega3 with all the information and a price breakdown (including $/gr Omega3). Take a look (and edit if you find good sources):
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=50967
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmbiSG9xZH4adDFRU2txaTE5Nmxad25DR3FlMGxYMFE&hl=en
SARAH-
Eggs CAN irritate the GI tract. If someone has an autoimmune issue, I’d steer clear.
Mark-
I’d just ditch the cod liver oil all together.
Jay-
It’s kinda wacky. I dug in my heels and made the point Sear’s work is built on work that people like Boyd eaton have done (associate of Cordain’s). The bottom line is people are always tinkering and they figure out what the real deal is.
Julianne-
I’ll tackle this in a podcast, good stuff. I have not checked out the paper yet but one thing that recurs when we are talking higher vs. lower carb diets is rarely do the studies last long enough for full adaptation to the lower carb eating. 2 weeks, for many people is when things get the worst. thank you for the awesome questions and sharing your personal experience!!
Jeff-
Never too busy for ANOTHER project! HA!
Robb,
You mentioned in your reply to Julianne that 2 weeks wi when things get worse, are you talking about performance and energy levels? I have a Podiatrist customer who put her family on the Paleo diet and after two weeks took her lipid levels. Her numbers LDL and triglycerides are down and HDL is up. She last took her lipid levels 6 months ago. She seems to be doing OK in class, but our Met-cons are pretty short. IS 2 weeks too soon to see a change in lipid numbers. I know that it is not even really clear that the lipid levels really mean that much but I think they are important to the majority of my atheletes that are in the medical field.
Hi Robb,
In your podcast you mention acne with excessive nut eaters but didn’t say much more than the word “acne”. Can you expand on this?
I break out regularly and have been trying to figure out what is the cause.
I eat a paleo/zone diet at 16 blocks. Nuts make up a large part of my fat intake, predominately salted almonds/cashews and MaraNatha Brand almond butter. I stay zoned in but occasionally slip some extra nuts/butter in. I’ve kicked dairy a few months ago (the last of my non-paleo vices) thinking that it was causing my acne, yet i still break out.
i think i’m going to try to ween back on the nuts. or is it something I should completely remove from my diet?
thanks for any suggestions
just listened to the podcast, it’s awsome keep up the good work
Great Podcast and I enjoy listening to the whole 40 minutes. I can’t wait for your book to come out so I can buy it, read it and keep for a reference guide.
Thanks for sharing your life saving knowledge.
Hi Robb, thanks for spending time on podcasting, sharing your knowledge and answering questions. Love your show and am finding it very useful. Wouldn’t have known about the change in Kirklands if you hadn’t pointed it out. Just bought some for the first time a few weeks ago and will now probably switch to NN’s.
Do you think you might get some transcripts of the programme or a summary of the questions and answers in the programme put up? It’s just so it’s easier to locate for specific information fast if/when one does a search.
P.S. I agree that it’s a good idea to keep it less than 30 minutes! Please keep it music and advertisement and cheesy stuff free too if you can!
Oops just realised your show was 40 minutes. Felt like less than that
Ok go as long as you want!
Alicia-
We ARE shooting for some 70’s style Porn guitar riffs for he intro music. I’ve just gotta.
BTW I noticed most of the CrossFit Superstars at the CrossFit Games don’t Zone. Where is the data that shows Zoning increases performance? HQ talks about measurable results why do they not have measurable results for Zone vs. Paleo?
Great Pod Cast and the 40 minutes seemed like only 20 minutes. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I’m going to try NOW brand liquid fish oil and I’ll report back here…
I had major sticker shock when I went to pick up some Nordic Naturals liquid fish oil. The Costco stuff was $20 per month. Nordic Naturals would be more like $100 per month for me. Yikes!
I noticed at Costco that now none of the fish oil varieties they carry tell you just how much of the important stuff you are getting. Hmm. Smells fishy to me…..sorry for the bad pun.
So that’s how I ended up with NOW brand fish oil purchased at a health food store–all the hyperbole on the bottle made it seem like it might be the same manufacturer as the Carlson stuff–and the NOW stuff works out to $60 per month at the dose I take (up to 10g of combined EPA/DHA per day; that’s the amount that I find is necessary for an antidepressant effect).
That works out to two tablespoons plus one teaspoon of liquid fish oil per day. I’m rounding that down to just taking the 2T. per day and will see how that goes; I assume I will be getting more of the actual EPA and DHA than what I was getting from Costco since the amounts are actually spelled out on the bottle.
I complained to Costco.
Dude, your podcasts suck. THEY AREN’T COMING FAST ENOUGH! I have already listened to them twice. Great stuff.
You guys were discussing the comparison between fish oils, and one of the trainers at my gym Mark Lind did a neato (although funky colored) chart about a year ago comparing costs per gram of omega-3s.
http://www.diablocrossfit.com/diablo%20crossfit%20omega-3%20comparison%20shopping%20spreadsheet.jpg
Unfortunately he didn’t break out the different EPA/DHA, but it was interesting to find out that Costco wasn’t the cheapest (and that Nordic Naturals liquid was pretty close!)
-jj
Hi Robb,
You discussed in this podcast Costco’s change to indicating “300mg of n3 including EPA/DHA”
Working in advertising, this is some pretty clever copywriting!
Anyways, I thought the community should be aware that Costco also sells an enteric coated, double strength product. It still breaks out EPA/DHA, and I think might be a bit higher quality and indicates that the fish oil is supplied by a third-party (there’s some branding stuff on the back about a Canadian company).
These have 684mg/capsule of legit EPA/DHA, and therefore contain less of stuff we might not want.
I did some quick math tonight…and found some interesting stuff amongst the fish oils I am familiar with:
Costco Non-Coated 400 Pill Bottle – $.08/gm EPA+DHA
Costco Coated 180 Pill Bottle – $.14/gm
Carlson’s Liquid Fish Oil 16.9oz – $.17/gm from VitaCost
Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Liquid 8oz – $.47/gm from VitaCost
Obviously, the more expensive these get the less total quantity we have to take each day. But my point is that the double strength costco stuff is quite a great deal.
Robb, just found this one:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/r1u5p66617758574/
Looks like a good source of data that ties in well with your message about Molecular Baking (which coincedentally sounds like something you’d see in a 70’s porn with a great sound track).
Here’s the Summary: Animals from a colony of spontaneously diabetic insulin-dependent BB rats were fed from weaning with semisynthetic diets in which natural proteins were replaced by l-amino acids with or without the addition of either milk or wheat proteins. The normal 50% incidence of diabetes in the colony was reduced to 15% in rats fed the basic semi-synthetic diet, while it was 35% and 52% when supplemented with gluten or milk, respectively. Thus, dietary factors might precipitate the expression of the disease.
Jeremy
Hey Robb,
Love the Podcasts they are great for when im at work. I was curious you mention taking in less nuts and using more things like avocado and Olive oil…are you implying taking straight shots of olive oil? If so how well does one’s body actually absorb straight oil? Would it be good to avoid nut oils such as almond oil cause of the possible gut factor? There are times when eating a hundred nuts per meal just gets old and it would be more convenient and efficient to use oils as another fat option along with coconut milk.
Thanks bro for keeping us on the right track.
Gabe,
Check out a can of sardines, price and omega-3 content. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Brad
These Podcasts are absolutely amazing. Please keep them coming!
Robb – another awesome podcast!
You are totally hitting the nail on the head with this stuff. I know we’ve talked specifically in the past about my transitions from the standard bodybuilding diet over to a lower carb / Paleo diet. I can’t say enough about how much this has positively affected my life. Coming from a nutrition background, I’ve not only shifted myself to Paleo, but all of my clients as well.
2 years ago my nickname might’ve well have been “S.I.” (systemic inflammation). All the grains, sugar, etc in my high-carb diet for Figure shows created such havoc on my digestive tract that I was practically useless. I wish I had discovered Robb Wolf back then.
Anyway – kicking the grains was the key for me. Inflammations gone, mood/energy is up, performance is up. And this latest suggestion on the nuts is my next battle. I’ve definitely found myself taking in way more than I should be – in fact I recently started craving them like I used to crave sugar. (a big sign to me that they’re causing a reaction that I don’t want).
So I’ll be limiting them going forward and hoping it’ll take me to the next level of leanness and performance!
thanks again – cant wait for the next podcast and the book(s)!
-Kari
Brad,
My point is just that Costco still has a very cheap, acceptable option. At 265#, I don’t think I could take down enough Sardines to really meet my needs.
Loving the Podcasts, Robb. Keep up the great work.
This is an effective and efficient way for us to get this information. You are spot-on, as usual. Keep moving in this direction.
p.s. Loved the Paleo seminar in San Diego.
Dr. Stephen Franson
Steve- that is a great question. I have plenty of data showing peoe improving performance with a shift to paleo. None of the powers that be seem interested in this information. People figure out the truth though.
Saul-
two weeks can certianly show lipid improvements.
Yep, I’d agree. This is likely a malabsorption issue. I’d drop the eggs.
Robb, maybe this is a silly question… I just listened to Barry Sears’ seminar at Endicott. He said that silent inflammation can be measured by looking at the AA/EPA ratio. He said that one way to reduce toxic fat syndrome is to increase EPA intake.
And this person http://www.drdavesbest.com/fish_oil_faq_061804.html (WFS) says that DHA helps with memory enhancement, combating Alzheimer’s Disease, improved eye health and eyesight, and that EPA helps with heart health, joint health, arthritis, allergies, nerves, hormone balance, digestion etc.
Are there then certain circumstances in which you would recommend higher EPA/DHA dosage and higher DHA/EPA dosage? If I had athritis, would there be any significant difference between taking 100mg EPA/300mg DHA and 300mg EPA/100mg DHA? And do you know if Barry Sears was suggesting an increase in specifically EPA intake or an increase in fish oil intake?
Eagerly awaiting the next podcast and your book!
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