I receive a lot of email from folks asking a variety of questions. Two questions tend to about send me over the brink: “How many blocks should I eat?” and “should I eat Paleo or Zone?” Both questions are troubling for several reasons but it’s actually the later question that just slays me and, is in fact, the causative factor FOR question number 1. You see, Barry Sears, The Zone, everything the man and the diet represent, are steeped in evolutionary biology. That folks, (Level 1 Cert crew teaching nutrition…) is paleo. For some damn reason CrossFit HQ (or elements so of it) can not wrap their minds around the concept that the basic premise of the paleo diet, that nice bit of writing from World Class Fitness in 100 Words: “…Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds. Some fruit, little starch, no sugar…” is in fact everything that Barry Sears talks about in the Zone! Sometime ago I received confused emails from people who attended a closed to the public gig in which the HQ lecturer, when asked “What about paleo?” responded “Paleo is pseudo science and the individuals who purport it’s methods are pseudo scientists…”
WOW! Better than half of my Crossfit Nutrition Certification is pseudo science! That’s a bummer. Strike one for CrossFit Nutritional offerings. Strike two was delivered this past weekend when Dr. Barry Sears gave a seminar to a large group of avid CrossFitters. Kelly Frankson attended the seminar and was kind enough to allow me to link to her notes. What we find is that Sears is practicing Pseudo Science just like other scientists like Cordain, Eaton, Eades and, well, me. Sears talked at length about genetics that are mismatched for our current environment, the need to return carbohydrate and essential fats BACK to Paleolithic levels. It’s a pretty serious situation if myself, Loren Cordain and Barry Sears are all practicing pseudo science! How long until Dean Ornish or John McDougal will lead the vegan charge for HQ. Those guys are definitely NOT paleo, so they must be of credible scientific pedigree…
Of Weights and Measures
There is a common bit of “wisdom” that is shot around the CrossFit world that goes something like this: “No one will ever reach elite athletic performance without weighing and measuring food…”. Interestingly however, few of the top finishers the CrossFit Games weighed and measured. Would they do better WITH weighing and measuring? Sure, I think you need to keep track of your chow at some point if you are going to affect some additional changes above what a food quality (paleo) approach will provide. But THAT is not the statement, nor the sentiment. Despite defying logic AND the actual stated nutritional hierarchy within Crossfit (don’t piss in your gas tank) the order of operations out of HQ is NOT food quality first (paleo), weighing and measuring second. It’s weigh and measure, whatever you have on hand and THAT will guarantee your ultimate success. It’s an interesting proposition that is proving itself to be completely false. Laura Demarco was an ardent Zoner (weighing and measuring) using VEGAN foods. She had ass-kicking performance but she did one simple thing (always nice in science) she shifted her food from grains to paleo carbs and her proteins all became animal based (paleo). You know what happened? She saw remarkable IMPROVEMENT in her performance. For her it mainly focused on strength (former 1RM DL was 275, current 5RM DL 285!!), but the results are stunning. The only change was a shift in food quality. I have dozens of stories like this. Apparently, food quality DOES matter.
Back to the Barry Sears seminar, Dr. Sears, the developer of the Zone…DOES NOT RECOMMEND WEIGHING AND MEASURING. HE RECOMMENDS FOOD QUALITY FIRST. He makes the point that WAM may be more trouble than it’s worth. For the vast majority of folks I work with that is absolutely the case. When we shifted AWAY from weighing and measuring in our clinical practice our clients got far better and more consistent results. Wacky things like reversing autoimmune disease, something that weighing and measuring beer, Pringles and beef jerky will not accomplish. Which reminds me, I’ve received quite a number of emails about the nutrition lecture at given Level 1 cert. The gist of the lecture is that a well-known athlete weighs and measures his beer, Pringles and beef jerky. He kicks ass (he is about 23…wait till 10 more years are on the odometer), so this is what you should do too. The best spin on this I can provide is this is a method of portion control. Being less diplomatic, I’d say people paid good money to attend that cert and the nutrition portion was a failure. We can and should do a hell of a lot better than that. As a Fitness company I cannot figure out why a general policy on eating is not “Eat the best food you possibly can, as often as you can. Slice it and dice it into the proportions that help you to reach YOUR goals”.
I’m NOT trying to make a paleo cult, I am encouraging people to TRY things and then report back what works. In the mean time I’ll be developing a t-shirt that says “Paleo Diet: Pseudo Science Since 5-million BC”.
138 Comments
Ben-
I’m kicking aroudn the idea of a pod-cast or something…I just can’t stay on top of all this. It would take me 3 hours or writing to properly answer your questions…theya re great, but it’s fracking hard to stay on top of it. All I can say is focus on inflammation is indeed a panacea, there are good and bad levels of inflammation, muscle gain is a complex process with beneficial inputs occurring from both anabolic and catabolic signaling…better and worse ways of managing inflammation.
Eric-
that’s weird…I’ll check that. Ok, just checked. You just need to fidn the little blue toggle at the bottom of the page. this will take you through all the comments.
No problem Robb. Here’s his bio page at the hospital also:
http://www1.wfubmc.edu/PhysPharm/faculty/chilton/chilton.htm
Robb-
Thanks for the work you do, I can’t wait for the book!
Just a little FYI
Lisa Ray taught the nutrition portion of my L1 cert back in Feb and she lined out very clearly- get quility food FIRST, this is enough for some people, if you don’t get the results you are looking for THEN weigh and measure that quality to fine tune.
Sounds like there may be inconsistancy from one cert to the next but my experience seemed to fall in line with your teachings.
Thanks again!
Cody
Awesome Cody, Lisa is awesome. Great coach, great athlete.
Robb, I believe Pat’s comments have been taken out of context. I attended the L1 cert in Longwood, FL and the nutrition lecture essentially recommended following a paleo/zone diet. The time allotted was definitely too short. In our lecture Pat recommended Paleo first; there really was not sufficient time to allow him to get deep into the mechanics of the zone except to describe its general principles. He did describe the macronutrient breakdown of the cheeseburger, however this was not meant as a recommendation. It was given in the context of how he tries to manage in a difficult circumstance to stay in the zone (eg. while traveling with limited resources at hand). He did not recommend in general eating crap. All that being said, Pat’s done an excellent job in his own training, during all of his travel he still managed to qualify for the CrossFit games. His summary was eat paleo/zone, if you would like to delve deeper go to the nutrition cert or check out this website.
Yes the “100 words” describes paleo. For CFHQ to call this pseudoscience is to shoot itself in the foot!
People who live in black boxes shouldn’t throw stones! ; )
Mixed metaphor for effect for all the concrete thinkers who will misinterpret that.
I’ve followed your blog for some time and enjoyed and benefited from your expertise and devotion to nutrition and sports performance. I’m looking forward to attending a nutrition cert with you and to reading your book.
Keep up the good work,
Steven
Paleo T-Shirt – I want it, order form?? Rock on Robb!
Steven-
It was not my intention to hang Pat out, and unfortuantely it was y’all that named him. I just want a STANDARD to be met for the attendees. At the end of the day however I have no literal ownership in crossfit and my input is generally seen as ungrateful and attacking. I’ll keep my mouth shut for the most part from here on out.
You are spot on however, equating paleo with pseudo science is indeed a foot wound.
Robb,
I’ve had an issue with HQ’s obsession with weighing and measuring since the beginning. Nicole Carrol gave the nutrition talk at my level 1 and she taught the zone with only a passing mention of starches and zero mention of lectins. I hope things have changed since 2008.
When I was zoning brown rice, oatmeal, and other starches/grains I felt like crap. Cut those out and started eating fruit/veg and everything got better. Bonus: I’m no longer that freak in the corner counting almonds…
I will say in your defense Robb that if called upon I could easily name the HQ star that told me there was an athlete getting ripped on Beer, Jerky and Pretzels in blocks.
Remember that very distinctly, 18 months later.
James-
I guess that’s the roll I play is filling in that gap.
Robb, I attended the Level 1 cert recently. This information is absolutely the truth. One 20-something trainer from a Central Coast CF did say that he weighs his Pringles out and went on to elaborate on the importance of the scale primarily. Similar questions were asked about food quality and similar responses were given. Cutting blocks and adding fat as needed were the only alterations to the Zone standard that were readily embraced.
Rob,
I think people take things @ first glance alot without doing any research themselves. I am positive there are alot of people preaching Zone that have never even seen a sears book let alone read it multiple times. I absolutely agree that Dr. Sears is Paleo with a portioning twist.
If he weren’t interested in food quality why would he section food by favorable and unfavorable… While I still love my milk (and Japan’s milk is much cleaner) we promote both Zone/Paleo @ our box. Eat clean with portioning because alot of people will over eat if not given some sort of boundaries. I think its a good way to get someone to understand in the beginning what a portion should look like .. but that is just my opinion and why I use zone. We also don’t have the benefit of places like Whole Markets and the like. You may get heat for voicing your opinion but it was something that needed to be said by someone with the education and knowledge to back it up… People are telling their clients to do zone without even knowing anything about it but blocks blocks blocks
Jamie-
it is odd that the message of “food quality first, weigh and measure second” is somehow threatening, but it was. Mor especifically my focus on the paleo diet for a variety of medical interventions. Yeesh.
Nate-
Well….that’s part of this post. When it’s all said and done I will take a shit-load of heat for this post but the intention was to affect change, from top to bottom. A few years ago I tried doing something like this with no success…I might should have known better. This food quality piece is just too damn important…it’s right up there with “increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains” unfortunately however it is not championed the same way.
Robb – We are right now caught up in a WAM vs. Paleo debate here in our little box… Thanks for this post and the clarity you bring to these discussions.
Dan-
The DABATE is awesome!! Battle it out, seet up two camps and see what the 1-2 month results are. Just getting people to pay attention one way or another is soooo important.
There is one, minor caveat I think needs to be recognized by those of us who understand and thus champion the paleo diet. I think it necessitates some rational agnosticism on details of the paleo diet: Details of recent human evolution are significant; for instance, Greg Cochran’s work (The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution) gives compelling examples of selected adaptations differentiating, for instance, northern europeans from aboriginal australians or native americans, in their tolerance of agricultural grains, lactose, alcohol. I always have this caveat in mind every time I explain the basic argument for paleo: there is so much we don’t know about how we’ve changed in the last 40,000 – 10,000 years. It may be the case that “asians are well adapted to rice” — could be a possible upshot of forthcoming work on human evolution.
Aside from that – I own up to my ignorance of the Zone. But for some time I’ve been making the following argument, and perhaps it’s obvious, or perhaps there’s some novelty to the insight. I hope you’ll just say “Yeah that’s completely obvious and we’ve been saying it for years,” which is probably the case. Just this little point –
I think much of the explanation for the Zone’s success is that whenever carbs are consumed, they are always combined with fats, which indisputably buffer the body’s insulin response. You can dampen the stimulus of carbs by carefully combining them with a significant portion of fats, and it’s likely the proteins help as well (I cannot differentiate well using my Type 1 diabetic methods, but I can demonstrate clear as day how fats buffer blood sugar increases.) This does NOT decrease overall insulin load, but it does slow it down, which has implications for brain glucose metabolism, type 2 diabetes, and certainly energy levels; you can elaborate the further effects much better than I can.
When following the Zone faithfully, you’re consistently achieving much of the effect of a paleo diet by dampening the insulin response to the carbs. This point seems relevant to me. (Why is the zone effective even when it fails to differentiate bad calories from good calories? Because of its modest steps toward mimicking the Paleo diet.)
Anyway Robb, just wanted to let you know that I’m a thoughtless, clueless kool-aid drinker so if CFHQ gives you the boot I must immediately retract every instance of recognizing your sound work. Just a pack animal, I am. I leave integrity and intellectual honesty (and what seems to me to be a 3rd-grade level reading comprehension) to the leaders. Naturally I’ll wait for the status hierarchy to beat its chest before I even know what I think.
More seriously — That this conflict could persist is unimaginable. Coach Glassman is way too smart, and there are too many other independent thinkers within the crossfit community. You will triumph, just doing what you’ve been doing all along. Easy as breathing. You do not need to belittle your position or pretend your claims are modest; stand tall and keep smiling. And thank you so much for all your excellent work.
Hi Robb
First I want to say this Blog is a great service to people like me. So I would like to say thank you.
I just started Crossfit workouts and need to lose about 60#s. I understand what I put in my mouth matters most so I am going to start Paleo this Sunday.
Do you think I will still get good results if I add Green Beans, Ezekiel Bread and humus to my Paleo Diet?
Also what can I add to tuna fish to make tuna fish salad?
Again thank you.
Sears and his zone were never on my list of good science or good diet. His all zones fits all is so far off the mark- His carb intake is way to high for many with Metabolism issues ( most folks). Sears is also one of the biggest bashers of low carb diets- the type of diet closer to Primal or paleo than anything he marketed and the diet that saved my life from diabetes that I can take him or this article seriously. Sears is bad news
Pj-
Well…the old 40/30/30 approach IS too many carbs for most folks. He does make some silly distinctions between himself and “other” low carb diets (he said ketosis was dangerous AND that it was caused by protein consumption) but his was a pretty potent message for it’s time. It just needs some updating.
Steve-
I’m a nut-case witht eh gluten…I;d prefer not have the bread, but that is your call. the other stuff I could live with but the humous is easy to overdo.
mayonnaise for tuna! this is not about perfection, just finding good options.
Cash-
Thanks brother…very kind and timely words.
Awesome post Rob! I’ve felt for a long time that we must be one of the few CF boxes that does NOT push the zone, but we are huge paleo advocates (zealots?). The first thing I ask of any new athlete is that they spend a month eating caveman food as a self-experiment to see how they feel. Almost nobody goes back to modern food… except for beer
Those that do go back inevitably fail to see the positive results they’re looking for by working out.
I used to majorly push WAM until I finally clued in that none of clients were successful with it for more than about 4 weeks. Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results. 4 weeks seems to be the point at which their patience for counting their almonds runs out and they fall totally off the wagon. But people can stick to ordering a steak and vegetables in a restaurant when they’re allowed to freely eat paleo food (and not have an anxiety attack of whether it’s 4oz or 5oz).
My own experience with WAM was equally as depressing. I felt AWFUL (what’s with the lack of cals on the zone anyway? 10-14 blocks for a female, are you kidding?? I eat that for lunch…). At the end of 4 weeks of diligent adherence to the plan, my performance across all domains had fallen, I was crabby, hungry, and ready to kick my kitchen scale out the window. Now I eat paleo food, ad libitum. If i’m hungry, I eat, if I’m not, I don’t. Easy. And everything has improved since then – body comp, performance, strength, mood.
I run a paleo recipe blog http://www.cavegirlinthekitchen.blogspot.com on the side to keep the inspiration going for delicious caveman (or cavegirl!) food. No boring grilled chicken and steamed broccoli for me!
Jocelyn-
This reflects the same experience we and so many other affiliates have had: weighing and measuring as a first intervention is NOT the best way to help your clients. The gyms that have tried a simple, paleo challenge have reported significantly better adherence to the program and consequently better results for more people. Like I’ve mentioned previously, some food preparation businesses like Mmmm Good Meals switched from Zone to paleo, saw better results AND better sales. the market is pretty adept at figuring out what does and does not work.
Yes!
I’m sorry Robb, I haven’t been keeping up with your site as I should. In the interests of disclosure, I only caught up because I was going through Google reader to get to the latest Weta Workshop post about District 9 and Comiccon and noticed a heap of posts on your blog that I hadn’t read.
This one in particular is a far more eloquent and well researched version of a mini-rant I’m making increasingly when newbies dismiss the Zone as non-paleo and therefore somehow of lesser value.
I do a lot of work answering questions from beginners on the CrossFit Brand X forum for Jeff and Mikki and we have been pointing people over here when they ask for more detailed information about nutrition than we can deal with. I’m going to do that much more. In particular I’ll be linking this and the post on the Zone and athletic performance often.
Saves me typing and spares my blood pressure.
Thanks for your good work.
Craig
aka Metric on the BX forum
Robb,
According to Sears’ book “Toxic Fat” the necessary purity of fish oil is really only shared by a handful of manufacturers, including Zone Labs. For the last year or so I’ve been taking 12-14 costco enteric coated fish oil tabs per day which have a combined epa/dha of 684 mg per tablet. The label says it’s molecular distilled but doesn’t give the actual PPB of PCB’s, Dioxins, etc… What is your take on the fish oil purity subject? Am I destroying my DNA with costco fish oil or is it safe?
as always, thanks for all the great info
Jay
jay-
I would not recommend the Costco stuff if I did not think it was safe! I pestered their quality control folks about processing and they had all the “right” answers. SOME people, due to a fish allergy are much better served with a higher purification level…most folks the standard stuff is fine. Try a month of one, try a month of the other and see if you notice an difference. I will have a private label fish oil in a few months, it will be very high concentration so you need to take fewer pills…but it will be free of BS and hyperbole about the necessity of ultra-distillation for every person taking fish oil.
I would call myself “Paleo Plus” (plus meaning eating saturated fat). What is your thought on saturated fat when Gary Taubes basically proved that saturated fat does not cause heart disease or any other ill effects? I’ve had tons of my clients lose a lot of weight doing “Paleo Plus”. One guy went from 300 lbs and just weighed in the other day at 190lbs. for his very first mma fight. It was his reward to himself to fight for losing all the weight. Most of my clients lose 20 to 30 pounds within two to three months. I personally lost 26 pounds in three months. I will be signing up for your November 7th Cert in Huntington Beach soon. I am looking forward to your teachings. Thanks, Coach David Alexander
David-
Check out my posts on paleo vs weston price. I’m not sure i get the distinction of paleo plus as saturated fat has been a part of our ancestral diet for eons. In my previous post I state my case that I think there are normal operating parameters for saturated fat…high insulin can change how our bodies react to sat’d fat. Give me a sample week’s meal plan so we have something concrete to talk about here.
Saturated fat means to me: Fatty steaks such as Ribeye, butter, cheese (occasionally), coconut or almond milk, skins on the chicken.
Sample weeks meal plan for “Paleo Plus”.
Monday – Friday: Breakfast = Lactose Free Muscle Milk protein shake (6 ice cubes, vanilla almond milk or coconut milk, two scoops of protein powder, maybe a banana, then blend on the “magic bullet” and 4 strips of bacon. Lunch = Ribeye steak or other meat and maybe some broccoli with melted butter. Dinner (within 1 hour after CrossFit workout) = Another steak or some kind of meat (hamburger, turkey, chicken), maybe a vegetable, Another muscle milk shake, lots of fruit (banana, strawberries, cherries, tangerine, other berries)
That is basically how me and my family eat every day. Weekends are usually the same unless we go out of town, then i order whatever i want and do not eat the bread. I might have a cheat day once a month or so. Cheat day might consist of movie popcorn or a bun on a triple in and out burger.
David-
that’s pretty much how I eat but I tend to have grassfed meat when Im at home. On the road it’s impossible. The change in feeding DOES dramatically change the fatty acid profile of the meat. If I had my way I’d only eat GF meat and butter, this completely changes not only the saturated fat content but a host of other considerations including n-3/n-6. I honestly think the closer we can keep that fatty acid profile looking like that of wild game the better off we are.
Great post. I want that T Shirt!
Thanks for the answer. I have signed up for your Nov. 7th class at CrossFit Marina in Huntington Beach (my wifes hometown). I eat grassfed when i can and am looking forward to the day when all my families meat can be grassfed. Keep up the good work. thanks, david
“Back to the Barry Sears seminar, Dr. Sears, the developer of the Zone…DOES NOT RECOMMEND WEIGHING AND MEASURING. HE RECOMMENDS FOOD QUALITY FIRST.”
I do agree that Dr. Sears recommends food quality in his book. However, it bothers me that his product ingredients are not the same quality ingredients he recommends. His energy bars fit the 40/30/30 nutrient breakdown but they consist of soy protein and corn syrup! I don’t think we can label him as “paleo” because of this. If you do it’s the same as saying that Atkins is “paleo”. The Atkins plan also recommends food quality first while keeping carbs low but if you look at their product ingredients they are the same as Sear’s products. The only difference is that the Atkins products are low carb instead of 40/30/30.
Carla-
there was a lot going on behind the scenes with this post but you are obviously right on. The product line Sears offers is dubious at best. To my knowledge Paleo Brands is the first attempt at bringing legitimate, high quality foods to the masses.
Speaking of Paleo Brands… When is the next seminar and when can I purchase the Almond Paleo Cookie online? I’m very excited that this was started up!!
Just a suggestion, but I think you should have the next seminar in TX.
Carla-
shooting for Boston…not sure on the date. I suspect Austin will happen not too long after that. The cookies should be good to go, unless they are doing site maintenance.
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