I had a comment in the Red Meat, Global warming post that asked me to describe how the various health care systems stack-up. This, in response to my statement that socialized medicine tends to become a serious mess. My response to that question, instead of weighing the merits of the US system vs say the Canadain system, was to point out that veterinary medicine is a pretty good example of what the real costs of medicine are when we do not have a 3rd payer system inflating costs. Here is that response:
Sure V-
Veternary medicine. it reflects the REAL costs of treatment, people pay as they go, even in installments and there is not a sense that one should get treatment for free. What about the poor? I have never seen a vet that did not have some sliding fee scales or who did not do some percentage of free work for folks who actually are in significant need.
(Interestingly, they CAN do this because their business is profitable, they WANT to do this because of a deep sense of compassion…hence their chosen profession. Perhaps this will be the case for human medicine one day…)
V- This is almost comical. but you are wanting me to compare one fucked up system (ours in the US) with another fucked up system (lets say the UK or Canada) this is the same path to endlessly chasing one’s tail as comparing the french diet with the american diet…one might be slightly better than the other, both are woefully sub-optimal.
The direction health care is going would be like home insurance that covers your light-bulbs and lawn maintenance or auto insurance that covers gas and oil. The purpose of insurance SHOULD be to offset catastrophic occurrences. If medical insurance was like this, then we paid out of pocket for health maintenance…ya know, the REAL cost, the system would be like auto insurance. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but its infinitely better than medical insurance…interestingly, it got BETTER when one was allowed to shop around and find the best policy for YOU. You know…that free market stuff again. Also, no one is talking about an “auto-insurance” crisis. Why? because it’s market based and it works.
Here is an irony that ties into the earlier global warming post. Glaxosmithklien unleashed Lovaza last year. For those unfamiliar with the product, it is a PRESCRIPTION fish oil. Andy Deas sent me this link to Dr. William Davis’ blog. Dr. Davis has a great analysis of the situation which boils down to this: Prescription Lovaza is $3360/year for the recommended dosage, Costco’s Kirkland brand (which I’ve recommended for over 5 years…Brad and I put their QA/QC department through the ringer….their product is legit) is $150/year for the same amount of EPA/DHA.
As Dr. Davis points out, Lovaza is a prescription and thus eligible for insurance reimbursement. He also points out that those costs do not disappear, we all take it in the fanny. If people had to pay out of pocket (or from a Health Savings Account) they would REALLY want to know why they should pay $3360/year vs $150/year. The bullshit of “Lovaza is a prescription drug which has been studied and is USDA approved” sounds pretty hollow when you look at the disparity in price. Especially when there are thousands of studies showing significant health benefit from fish oil, none of which happened to be Lovaza.
You know what would be funny? to get glazosmithklein to go kick the collective asses of the people saying fish oil is not as effective for health as was thought (all the while changing tactics and talking about sustainability). Let big pharma go after the anti-fishoil-nutters while we promote grassfed meat, single payer medicine and lululemon pants for all hot women (lululemon is scientifically proven to make averages asses look amazing, amazing asses almost too good to view).
Adendum:
I forgot that Andy sent a follow-up post from Dr. Davis. I get some fishy comments that I can not figure out if they are spam or something like this…an industry shill who is trying to shed some doubt on the obvious.
The product thing is interesting…I want to sell a book off this blog, perhaps a DVD or two at some point. We’ve had a food product in the works for YEARS. I’d like to develop and sell that. Perhaps one day I will have some kind of fish oil offered from the site and in the gym, but I’ll never hype that product as the end-all. There are no magic pills or solutions (well…unless you can hit a pharmacy in central America…ohhhh winstrol…). I’m not super familiar with Dr. Davis but he seems like a pretty stand-up guy. He appears to send his patients to Costco to get their fish oil…what I like about that is you are paying the person for their expertise/coaching. Not an overhyped, overpriced product. If you recall I love open markets, I’m all for people making money but I have serious issues with entities that prety on peoples fears and ignorance to make a buck.








80 Comments
Nick!!!
Do not count the fish oil in your fat blocks!!
Robb,
Do you have any links to papers in the literature that detail the efficacy of daily high dose fish oil (in the 0.5g/10lb range)?
I would like to share it with those who argue that you can only efficiently utilize a moderate dose every other day. Thanks!
Sage-
Offhand, No. But look in the Omega RX Zone. Sears recommends high dose fish oil and appears to reference the material. The notion you can only absorb a small amount of fat however is…well I’ll be nice and just say that it’s silly!
Hey Robb,
I attended your cert recently, but I didn’t take detailed enough notes about the fish oil you recommend.
I know the amounts to take, but I didn’t get the data regarding EPA versus DHA, what to look for, how much of each of these one should look for, etc.
Can you help?
shannon-
just track the total amount of EPA/DHA…if you are supposed to take 10g/day that is total epa/dha!
I read an article about fish oil is not good for children, can you give your opinion on that. thank you.
Jami-
that is preposterous. If you want to shoot the article link to me I’ll take that thing apart.
Anyone had any luck finding research to back up the .5g-1g of combined EPA/DHA for every 10lbs of body weight? My doctor says he’s willing to prescribe a higher dose of lovaza for me if I can bring in research backing up the higher dose. So far the only thing I’ve found relates to treating ADHD in children (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/79071.php)
I’m trying to find something that shows the benefits of a high dose of fish oil for joint issues like osteoarthritis.
Kassidy-
Take the fracking bull by the horns and pony-up the $132/YEAR to buy some of your own fish oil. Not trying to be a dick but the concept of Lovaza horrifies me. Search my blog for a previous post on this.
I’m trying to figure out dosage for me based on the brand I purchased. I weigh around 200 lbs. So if I follow the math I should be taking in 10g/day. The ingredient list has the following per 1 cap.
Super Fish Oil Blend (anchovy, sardine and/or salmon) = 1150 mg
EPA = 360 mg
DHA = 360 mg
Do I add the 3 together (1150+360+360=1870 mg or 1.87g) than divide 10g by 1.87 = 5.3 caps?
or
Do I just add the EPA & DHA (360+360=720 mg or .72g) than divide 10g by .72 = 13.8 caps?
Thanks
Robb you recommend Kirtland brand fish oil, however, I believe that fish oil contains soy. From my understanding most all fish oils contain soy for Vitamin E in the form of tocopherol. I recently attended one of your certs and I learned a lot. You expressed how crucial it was to avoid cereal grains and legumes because of the lectins they contain. I’m assuming that the soy that is contained in fish oils is safe to consume because you use and recommend it. I was just wondering why that is.
Richard-
It;s damn near impossible to find a Vit e that is not soy derived…I think Carlson does some. This is just a MINOR tradeoff to keep your fish oil from going rancid. That would be far more concerning than the tiny bit of soy in the Kirkland brand. Now, if that is really a concern for you, grab nordic naturals or another brand that is soy free. I recommend the kirkland because it is generally inexpensive, solid quality and broadly available. There are certainly higher quality brands out there…its just up to you to determine your needs.
Darren-
13 caps. I really nee to get this in the FAQ!!!
Robb,
Thank you for the non-soy suggestions. What I was actually trying to ask, albeit unsuccesfully, was is the soy contained in fish oil going to cause the same GI tract problems that are found when ceral grains and legumes are consumed? Also, the same question applies for animals that are fed soy? I can barely find anything that is actually fed some semblance of what it might eat in the wild. The chicken at the whole foods is 70% corn and 30% soy. Birds are omnivores for the most part, right? But health food chicken always touts a vegetarian diet. Then they feed them soy. Apologies for the rant. It was not too long ago that my meal planning consisted of picking a number from one to ten. Trying to eat healthy can get frustrating. Thanks again for all of you help.
Richard-
You will not have the same problems from the soy in the fish oil. The chicken issue just needs to be addressed by taking fish oil to balance the n-3/n-6. You are good to go!
Some Nordic Naturals fish oil products DO have soy in them. It’s in the Vitamin E that is part of the capsule.
The ProDHA is the product I’m looking at right now.
OPT put these on his site today. Scary for those of us who take gobs of fish oil a day. What’s your take Robb?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g (wfs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=related (wfs)
Jay-
It’s very interesting…I think it;s legit but needs some more exploration. we will hit it in a podcast.
Veternary medicine. it reflects the REAL costs of treatment, people pay as they go, even in installments and there is not a sense that one should get treatment for free. What about the poor?
Well TERM…You make tax breaks for donating to non-profit medical clinics that operate on a free or sliding scale program. MUCH more efficient than a governmental program.
Hey Robb, I’m new to the podcast, and I’m just wondering if you ever followed up on the youtube videos slamming fish oils a few comments up.
Hunter-
Link? What was that about?
He argues that fishoil supplementation can
- leads to reduced immune function
- can cause brain damage
- is useless in preventing or treating arterial inflammation
- worsens glycemic tolerance
- decreased insulin response
many of the studies he cite seem questionable at best, but I would be interested in your opinion.
Here’s his videos on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By8icw-ua8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7SYlEuRnVg&feature=related
Here’s a related “study” I found on his website:
http://www.brianpeskin.com/BP.com/studies-experiments/PEO-vs-FishOil.pdf
Hunter-
OK! I remember now. He is “out to lunch”. That;s about as nice as I can put it.
Ok, I thought so.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Love the podcast, the time you invest into your users is great.
Keep up the good work!
Here in Canada, veterinary hospitals have run into massive trouble with the law for sneaking people into their MRI machines.
People who would otherwise be forced to wait for months in the socialized health care system.
Bryan-
Really? That is really unfortunate. Thatks for that, I know this was an old post.
Rob I was curious if you know of any literature or website that could provide a list of “safe” fish oil manufacturers?
Up here in Canada I have been unable to find the Kirkland brand but I have stumbled upon WildOmega3 by New Roots Herbal (660epa, 330 dha per cap) however they are not listed on the international fish oil standards webpage as being tested.
http://www.newrootsherbal.com/product/view/id/1280 (wfs)
Thanks
Chris
Chris-
No idea amigo.
Chris – most fish oil manufacturers should have printouts of batch tests of their product, EPAX or IFOS have guidelines as to what good purity and oxidation levels should be.
http://www.epax.com/filestore/EPAXPuritystatement4.pdf
Ask them for their tests and see how they stack up.
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[...] community has decided to cash in on this and released a new “drug” called Lovaza. As Robb Wolf points out, it is nothing more than a prescription fish [...]
[...] community has decided to cash in on this and released a new “drug” called Lovaza. As Robb Wolf points out, it is nothing more than a prescription fish [...]